Tier Shift

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I'm hyped! :D
Jolteon seems pretty cool now, outspeeding Mega Manectric and still being able to hold an item and having higher Special Defense.
Feraligatr seems pretty cool, outspeeding Landorus-T, Mega Garchomp, Rotom-H and Nidoking and will be a great user of Dragon Dance (though it has Gyarados to compete with).
Gogoat seems pretty viable now, but I'm sure that Talonflame and Fletch will still be around to disrupt its plans.
Also looking forward to Coil Serperior. :)
 
it's called using scripts, coding for PS is very interesting so I encourage you to check it out :)
I've looked into it before and didn't find much constructive help. Coding always really interested me for sure its just hard to get started. How'd you start?

Also we should probably stop using this as a chat for this since it's 100% off topic tbh
 

ryan

party for one
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For what it's worth, I asked TalkTakesTime to program this on Joim's Lab about a week ago. It's playable on that server by challenge only: http://joimslab.psim.us

Something I really want to bring up because a lot of posts in this thread seem to disregard it is that not all Pokemon are in lower tiers because of their Base Stats. One possible reason is that a Pokemon is simply outclassed by something else, which Tier Shift remedies really well by giving the extra Base Stats as an incentive of using the previously outclassed Pokemon. Another issue, however, is that some Pokemon just have really bad typing or coverage. Take, for example, Sceptile and Primeape, which were both mentioned previously in this thread. It's true that these Pokemon receive +15 in all of their Base Stats. Sceptile loves being incredibly fast and finally having respectable offensive stats for higher tiers, and Primeape loves finally being fast -enough- with a good Attack stat. But are they strong enough? Most other Pokemon also get additional bulk, which generally means more than the additional attacking stats (because both HP and respective defenses are boosted). Those Pokemon also get decent coverage, but with only one STAB, it's usually not good enough.

None of this is to say that Sceptile or Primeape in particular will be bad in this metagame, but instead, it's just to serve as a friendly reminder that a lot of factors—not just Base Stats—add up to why a Pokemon ends up in whichever tier it does.
 

ryan

party for one
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From my experiences playing this last generation, I can honestly say that it's fine how it is. First off, stall is actually a good and fairly reliable playstyle in XY OU, so most of the best defensive Pokemon are already OU as it is (see: Clefable, Mandibuzz, Quagsire, etc. which were all tiered very lowly last generation and find themselves in OU now, even if some of them did receive other buffs this gen). This means that you won't even see that many good defensive Pokemon receive major boosts. Second, this game still favors offense, even with the many nerfs to offense we saw this generation. Giving defensive Pokemon an extra slight edge over offensive ones isn't such a bad thing.

This is a metagame where stall is probably about equally viable to offense, and I don't see any reason to take away from that.
 

Arhops

(homophobe)
Im just going to point out that:

Klinklang
Was: 60/100/115/70/85/90
Is now: 75/115/130/85/100/105

Klinklang gets some pretty cool bulk now (75/130/100) so it can set up more easily, 105 speed to put it in a great speed tier and a base 115 attack to hit people hard with Gear Grinds.

Example: (Using both new stats)
+1 252+ Atk Klinklang Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 278-326 (61.2 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Klinklang Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 170-202 (50.8 - 60.4%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Pretty impressive imo Klinklang imo :]

#ChestoRestoKlinklang2015
 
This has to be coded without HP getting boosts. HP gives defensive pokemon a ridiculously unfair boost which was kind of the problem with BW tier shift, it also does not scale the same as other stats. This just makes defensive pokemon stupidly overpowered
I understand your reasoning behind this, but if you had played BW Tier Shift extensively it would be clear that this really isn't true. I think Hollywood covered this pretty much but you should try out the metagame before forming any pre-concieved ideas about it.


I talked with TTT and it's been determined that Blissey will receive a +5 boost to all stats except HP, for the sake of consistency. A ladder will hopefully be up soon.
 
88/130/75/75/75/105 (It's really UU-worthy to begin with. Being in NU only gave it more Attacking prowess.)

114/101/73/101/83/78 (Turning all those 2OHKOs into OHKOs)

85/90/80/75/85/100 + Eviolite (Effectively 85/120/127 Defenses)

101/100/82/100/139/118 (Access to both Swords Dance and Calm Mind; Unimaginable Defenses for a Sweeper)

85/105/70/75/70/125 (Excellent Speed Tier and Ability)

82/152/95/65/75/102 (The mean, green, sweeping machine)

113/105/126/86/100/100 (SubCoil. That is all.)
 
ok, small question. What about the megas that have their stones banned from a tier? For example: medicham is RU but medichamite is banned from UU. (this is partially because if it works like you said I don't think a mega medicham with 70/110/95/90/95/110 spread with the attack boosted by huge power will be to good for this meta).
 

TalkTakesTime

as shallow as a plate of cereal
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ok, small question. What about the megas that have their stones banned from a tier? For example: medicham is RU but medichamite is banned from UU. (this is partially because if it works like you said I don't think a mega medicham with 70/110/95/90/95/110 spread with the attack boosted by huge power will be to good for this meta).
I discussed this with eriados on irc before I coded it, and we decided that the boost the mega gets will be the same as the boost its base forme gets, regardless of any inconsistent tiering. If it comes to it, any megas that are found to be overcentralising can be suspected and banned, or we can reconsider the implementation, but for now we're assuming the mega forme and the base forme are treated as if they are tiered the same way. The reasoning behind this is to avoid changing base HP stats mid-battle, which would occur if the two formes got different boosts.
 
I discussed this with eriados on irc before I coded it, and we decided that the boost the mega gets will be the same as the boost its base forme gets, regardless of any inconsistent tiering. If it comes to it, any megas that are found to be overcentralising can be suspected and banned, or we can reconsider the implementation, but for now we're assuming the mega forme and the base forme are treated as if they are tiered the same way. The reasoning behind this is to avoid changing base HP stats mid-battle, which would occur if the two formes got different boosts.
ok thanks, that answers my question.
 

Albacore

sludge bomb is better than sludge wave
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I've tried the ladder out a little, and all I can say is that Rain is absolutely everywhere, so packing a Rain counter is highly recommended. Also, Sigilyph is pretty common and annoying.
 

Albacore

sludge bomb is better than sludge wave
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I'd just like to point out that Mega-Heracross is a ridiculous beast with great bulk (85/120/110 is nothing to scoff at) and insane power, only held back by its mediocre speed which can be remedied with something like Sticky Web, which lets it outspeed everything up to grounded base 126 Speed Pokemon while still conserving an Adamant nature needed for stallbreaking. Alternatively, you can give it a Jolly nature, which lets it outspeed anything slower than base 145, assuming it's grounded. So yeah, this thing is destructive and pretty much singlehandedly swept the Tier Shift mini-tournament that was held about an hour ago. Definitely a force to be reckoned with.
 
A couple of ideas:
upload_2014-6-3_20-12-21.png

Uxie is an absolute monster in this OM. 90/90/145/90/145/110 is an uber-esque stat distribution. Only Aegislash and Deoxys-D have defenses that good or better, and now she can actually hit opposing walls back with base 90 attacks. Her speed is better than most sweepers like Garchomp, Salamence, Mega Pinsir, and Charizard, alowing her to get off Light Screen or Reflect before the opponent can hit her.

If only contrary Serperior was released. Base 90 attacks with Leaf Storm giving you +2 every time you use it, and faster than Greninja? He would become probably the most used grass type in tier shift.


Hustle Durant, anyone? The accuracy drop is not appreciated, but 119 in both attack and speed, coupled with 122 defense makes up for it IMO. He gets reliable STAB in the form of X-Scissor and Iron Head, then has Crunch, Shadow Claw, Rock Slide, Thunder Fang, and Superpower to fill his last two moves. Not extremely super OP, but if these were his real stats, he would be at least BL. If only he wasn't so weak to fire...


And last but not least, Kingler. 145 attack. 130 defense. However, just 90 speed. But we all know the solution to mediocre speed: Choice Scarf! Although his movepool is shallow, he does get a strong STAB move in Crabhammer, and his other moves Knock Off, X-Scissor, and Superpower, while not amazing, are good enough to pass. Sheer Force + Life Orb is another option, but 70 HP and 65 spD aren't very appealing to me.
 

And last but not least, Kingler. 145 attack. 130 defense. However, just 90 speed. But we all know the solution to mediocre speed: Choice Scarf! Although his movepool is shallow, he does get a strong STAB move in Crabhammer, and his other moves Knock Off, X-Scissor, and Superpower, while not amazing, are good enough to pass. Sheer Force + Life Orb is another option, but 70 HP and 65 spD aren't very appealing to me.
65 Special Attack! Maybe Sheer Force Ice Beam is worthwhile now. And it has Agility if you don't want a Scarf.
 
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