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Metagame Tier Shift
- Thread starter G-Luke
- Start date
Ofc giving more HP = equals more bulk. What I want to know is why is the so crucial.
Does the current stat distribution invalidate defensive playstyles and Pokemon on a whole?
Does it overcentralise the metagame around offense?
Does it force you to always use one or two defensive Pokémon that would be defensive teams onpy hope at stopping offense's onslaught?
Because this is what was the case back when HP wss buffed.
Offense had a piss poor matchup against Stall and struggled to easily break balance builds.
The meta was definitely overcentralised around trying to beat stall, forcing offense to rely near exclusively on only the hardest hitters in the tier, and also made offensive Pokémon in RU and UU near unviable, generally limiting what is viable to run.
If you can give actual reasoning as to why defensive Pokemon and playstyles are completely invalidated in the current meta, thus requiring more HP to operate, then fine, something will be done. But if you are just upset your favourite tank relied on its HP to be effective and is now bad, the nerf did exactly what I set out to do and you should look into find better alternatives.
T.I.A.
formerly Ticktock
Actually, I can't find anything good to say. You're right about removing the HP buff since it made it way too defensive.
Darn, I thought Tier Shift had become a constant metagame on the main server, but it died again. Oh well
Rip, I still had more teams I wanted to test.
It's on rotational ladder.
A long awaited Viability Rankings are currently being worked on, plus other surprises underway, so stay tuned!
Is Tier Shift abandonned ? I found a powerful set (To be honest it is more fun than powerful) in a tournament.
Zweilous @ Choice Band
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Head Smash
- Outrage
- Superpower
- Crunch
With a Sticky Team this Pokemon can just hit without thinking.
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Zweilous Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 480-565 (68.2 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This Pokemon hit like a Primo Groudon and can easily become a powerful Wallbreaker.
However he don't have a good bulk and he is slow.
Zweilous @ Choice Band
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Head Smash
- Outrage
- Superpower
- Crunch
With a Sticky Team this Pokemon can just hit without thinking.
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Zweilous Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 480-565 (68.2 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This Pokemon hit like a Primo Groudon and can easily become a powerful Wallbreaker.
However he don't have a good bulk and he is slow.
can anyone tell me which pokemon in tier shift have the most BST and how much?
and an random tier shift team origionally used for PU
EDIT: /ts guzzlord shows it's NU for some reason
and an random tier shift team origionally used for PU
Rampardos @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Thunder Punch
- Fire Punch
- Zen Headbutt
Guzzlord @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Crunch
- Protect
- Poison Jab
Drampa @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Berserk
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt
- Roost
- Glare
Mawile @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Play Rough
- Ice Punch
- Swords Dance
Lycanroc @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Accelerock
- Fire Fang
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
Silvally-Dark @ Dark Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Parting Shot
- Multi-Attack
- Flame Charge
- Zen Headbutt
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Thunder Punch
- Fire Punch
- Zen Headbutt
Guzzlord @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Crunch
- Protect
- Poison Jab
Drampa @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Berserk
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt
- Roost
- Glare
Mawile @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Play Rough
- Ice Punch
- Swords Dance
Lycanroc @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Accelerock
- Fire Fang
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
Silvally-Dark @ Dark Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Parting Shot
- Multi-Attack
- Flame Charge
- Zen Headbutt
EDIT: /ts guzzlord shows it's NU for some reason
thanks!
Works for me. Did you misspell it?
Attachments
Tier Shift is honestly my favorite OM. It gives an absurd amount of variety in what you can run and makes certain Pokemon you'd never even spare a second glance completely usable. The depths this game can go to in terms of what all is runnable is insane. Even sets that are already used get boosted to the point of being far better.
Whiscash doesn't even make PU normally, but now he becomes a pretty great Pokemon with 110/113/111 bulk, which combined with its typing, makes it quite tanky. Respectable 118 ATK and 100 Speed don't go to waste either thanks to Dragon Dance being something it gets... I don't understand why either, but it's great. Waterfall and Earthquake make some good coverage, and you even have an excuse to run Bounce for those pesky Grass types (or just stick with Rock Slide if you don't care enough about them to warrant a two turn move).
Articuno may still have its crappy Ice/Flying type, but 90/140/165 defenses are insane, and 135 SpA and 125 Speed are great as well. The defense is negated a bit by its poor typing still, but it can be viable now, and hit pretty decently while it's at it. Even if it'll probably stick with Substitute to be safe.
Silvally also becomes quite bulky, and can run its roles even better. While it still lacks the same power in moveset as the Pokemon it's based on, besides the 95 HP stat, all of its stats surpass Arceus by reaching 135. It can either be a defensive nightmare with things like Parting Shot and Thunder Wave, or pack Flame Charge and Swords Dance to be a bulky setup sweeper. Only disadvantage is that if you choose to be Steel Silvally, you lose power since you're booted to NU, but on the bright side, this gives you a reason to use Normal Silvally and have an actual item. Or choose another type for good Multi Attack coverage.
Hell, even with Eviolite banned, some of the NFE Pokemon are quite viable. Combusken gets boosted to a respectable level to fulfill the role of its evolution, albeit with a worse movepool. Kadabra actually becomes quite a beast with 160 SpA and 145 Speed, and Life Orb + Magic Guard boost its output even further.
And that's without even needing to get into the obvious and/or meta choices, like Light Ball Pikachu (not bad), Klinklang, Comfey, and so on. The fact that there's so much variety and so many Pokemon at least have a shot is probably my favorite aspect of this OM.
Whiscash doesn't even make PU normally, but now he becomes a pretty great Pokemon with 110/113/111 bulk, which combined with its typing, makes it quite tanky. Respectable 118 ATK and 100 Speed don't go to waste either thanks to Dragon Dance being something it gets... I don't understand why either, but it's great. Waterfall and Earthquake make some good coverage, and you even have an excuse to run Bounce for those pesky Grass types (or just stick with Rock Slide if you don't care enough about them to warrant a two turn move).
Articuno may still have its crappy Ice/Flying type, but 90/140/165 defenses are insane, and 135 SpA and 125 Speed are great as well. The defense is negated a bit by its poor typing still, but it can be viable now, and hit pretty decently while it's at it. Even if it'll probably stick with Substitute to be safe.
Silvally also becomes quite bulky, and can run its roles even better. While it still lacks the same power in moveset as the Pokemon it's based on, besides the 95 HP stat, all of its stats surpass Arceus by reaching 135. It can either be a defensive nightmare with things like Parting Shot and Thunder Wave, or pack Flame Charge and Swords Dance to be a bulky setup sweeper. Only disadvantage is that if you choose to be Steel Silvally, you lose power since you're booted to NU, but on the bright side, this gives you a reason to use Normal Silvally and have an actual item. Or choose another type for good Multi Attack coverage.
Hell, even with Eviolite banned, some of the NFE Pokemon are quite viable. Combusken gets boosted to a respectable level to fulfill the role of its evolution, albeit with a worse movepool. Kadabra actually becomes quite a beast with 160 SpA and 145 Speed, and Life Orb + Magic Guard boost its output even further.
And that's without even needing to get into the obvious and/or meta choices, like Light Ball Pikachu (not bad), Klinklang, Comfey, and so on. The fact that there's so much variety and so many Pokemon at least have a shot is probably my favorite aspect of this OM.
Special report s/o the Agency
Agent 00Broken
95/125/125/105/105/75
Honestly I hate this stupid piece of shit Pokemon. It invalidates so many physical Pokemon and set-up Pokemon in general. It can fit on virtually any team because it's just that good. Curse sets are nice given Quagsire's solid 125 attack in this OM. There are a handful of Grass-types and Pokemon that can use Grass-type coverage, though, so I don't think it's really a bannable Pokemon. It is just as annoying as annoying can get.
Agent 00Smashed
Meteor: 60/90/130/90/130/90
After Shields Down: 60/130/90/130/90/150
This is a pretty cool set up mon thatis hardwalled by Quagsire because it's a fat piece of can find a lot of opportunities behind screens. Even without Shields Down, Minior has insane offenses at +2. Behind screens it can set up twice on more passive or just weak Pokemon.
Tapu Koko remains a goat Pokemon because it sets up terrain for:
Agent 00Wavy
60/125/90/135/125/150
I've seen Nasty Plot with Aloraichium Z, which is a very capable cleaner under Terrain. It outspeeds basically everything and hits even resists hard with Thunderbolt and its Z-move. I have also experimented with a Specs set. Its Specs Thunderbolt is capable of OHKO'ing many frail Pokemon and can 2HKO the bulkier ones. Eliminating Ground-type Pokemon and mons like Blissey is great for Alolan Raichu.
&
Agent 00HawluchaJr
70/115/95/135/115/150
Sceptile after Unburden hits high speed like Raichu-Alola, but it's permanent so it doesn't really need any investment into speed. Using Swords Dance allows Sceptile to easily sweep with Leaf Blade / Earthquake / Acrobatics. It has surprisingly nice bulk thanks to the HP investment, but you still mainly want to SD under screens. Fortunately Sceptile is not bodied by Agent 00Broken, but that busted Pokemon still manages to live a Leaf Blade btw lmao.
That's enough for today's report. Shoutouts the agency even tho I'm not affiliated
Agent 00Broken
95/125/125/105/105/75
Honestly I hate this stupid piece of shit Pokemon. It invalidates so many physical Pokemon and set-up Pokemon in general. It can fit on virtually any team because it's just that good. Curse sets are nice given Quagsire's solid 125 attack in this OM. There are a handful of Grass-types and Pokemon that can use Grass-type coverage, though, so I don't think it's really a bannable Pokemon. It is just as annoying as annoying can get.
Agent 00Smashed
Meteor: 60/90/130/90/130/90
After Shields Down: 60/130/90/130/90/150
This is a pretty cool set up mon that
Tapu Koko remains a goat Pokemon because it sets up terrain for:
Agent 00Wavy
60/125/90/135/125/150
I've seen Nasty Plot with Aloraichium Z, which is a very capable cleaner under Terrain. It outspeeds basically everything and hits even resists hard with Thunderbolt and its Z-move. I have also experimented with a Specs set. Its Specs Thunderbolt is capable of OHKO'ing many frail Pokemon and can 2HKO the bulkier ones. Eliminating Ground-type Pokemon and mons like Blissey is great for Alolan Raichu.
&
Agent 00HawluchaJr
70/115/95/135/115/150
Sceptile after Unburden hits high speed like Raichu-Alola, but it's permanent so it doesn't really need any investment into speed. Using Swords Dance allows Sceptile to easily sweep with Leaf Blade / Earthquake / Acrobatics. It has surprisingly nice bulk thanks to the HP investment, but you still mainly want to SD under screens. Fortunately Sceptile is not bodied by Agent 00Broken, but that busted Pokemon still manages to live a Leaf Blade btw lmao.
That's enough for today's report. Shoutouts the agency even tho I'm not affiliated
Just ran into a dasdardly Quagsire set, stole it and had to share:
Quagsire @ Grip Claw
Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Infestation
- Stockpile
- Toxic
- Rest
Ooh man, where to begin. If you hate Pyukumuku, this set is even worse...Grip Claw extends Infestation's length to 7 turns and, when combined with Toxic, will do heavy chip damage over time, with perfect type coverage to avoid immunities. Rest lets it ignore enemy Toxic and Stockpile helps Quagsire live more hits, possibly letting it kill another mon.
This set is so beautiful because people expect Unaware Quag to be a utility toxic/burn setter, so they'll bring in their utility mons or choice users to deal with it, only to catch an infestation/toxic on the switch. Once 1 Stockpile is set Quag can avoid most 3HKOs and can start firing off an infestation, toxic, or another stockpile once it wakes up from rest. It relies on prior chip damage for the most powerful choice users and of course still has problems with Mold Breaker and grass types, but it has singlehandedly won me numerous games.
Quagsire @ Grip Claw
Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Infestation
- Stockpile
- Toxic
- Rest
Ooh man, where to begin. If you hate Pyukumuku, this set is even worse...Grip Claw extends Infestation's length to 7 turns and, when combined with Toxic, will do heavy chip damage over time, with perfect type coverage to avoid immunities. Rest lets it ignore enemy Toxic and Stockpile helps Quagsire live more hits, possibly letting it kill another mon.
This set is so beautiful because people expect Unaware Quag to be a utility toxic/burn setter, so they'll bring in their utility mons or choice users to deal with it, only to catch an infestation/toxic on the switch. Once 1 Stockpile is set Quag can avoid most 3HKOs and can start firing off an infestation, toxic, or another stockpile once it wakes up from rest. It relies on prior chip damage for the most powerful choice users and of course still has problems with Mold Breaker and grass types, but it has singlehandedly won me numerous games.
So it seems I'm on an mission to see what weather teams can work on which OMs. I'm building a sand and a rain almost any ability team. Problem is im pretty bad considering I'm coming back after a long time away from the game, and have barely played OMs before, so I'm here to learn and ask for advice. TierShift is the next gamemode I'm interested in. Came to ask if sun is viable in this mode? I rly like Trevanent and I imagined having him as a spdef wall on a TierShift sun team with his harvest ability alongside Torkoal and Charizard Y, and maybe a Sawsbuck. Any suggestions for team members or advice abt weather in general in the mode?
If I recall correctly, rain is quite powerful, since there are few strong swift swimmers in the lower tiers. Make sure to bring a rain check like Gastrodon (you're going to want a fire resist anyway, because the sun will boost your opponent's fire attacks).
This is an old, but bad, sun team I tried in the past: https://pokepast.es/453f469329eb73c2
There are several sun abusers out there from the lower tiers so I would definitely recommend just trying out the different ones. The Scarf Charizard is a bit of a meme, but it can hit hard I guess. 139 spa under sun + solar power will ohko a lot but it just dies pretty fast due to poor type + solar power + some notable fragility
I wouldnt recommend zardy on a dedicated sun team, though it seems appealing at first due to sun. If you want an extra setter, Ninetales (73/96/95/101/120/120) might be the better pick due to Heat Rock. Zardy just seems to abuse its own sun more than its teammates will get the chance to.
Sawsbuck sounds p cool but I never got around to it, so yeah I'd give it a try to see how you like it.
I wouldn't consider Sun to be a top threat but if you like usin sun teams, they do have some viability thanks to the improved sun abusers.
The QD/SS Bellossom tech is already really powerful, but Bellossom gains tremendous bulk and power due to its ZU status. I've literally gone toe-to-toe against scyther using z-strength sap and beaten it 1 on 1 thanks to Chlorophyll's speed boost and HP Fire in the sun. Highly recommend giving it a try.
Weather is pretty good. Rain is an excellent playstyle inspite of Damp Rock being banned, and sun has a few good abusers with Ninetales, Charizard and Victreebel being some.
hey all, as some may know i have been appointed co-leader for tier shift
i have completed the vr for tier shift in a sense
this will be the vr for tier shift, discussion about drops or rises will be here, we could use more experience from other players to form more opinions on why x is c or what not. i will also be posting a huge update on the sample teams since they are quite outdated u will see that very soon. post away!
You used "there" when you should have used "their" in the introductory paragraph and the A-rank description.
Also, can Throh and Ursaring fit on stall? If not, either the S rank needs its criteria changed, or these Pokemon need to be dropped.
fixed and yes they can