They are the same thing; except Black Sludge hurts anyone who isn't a Poison-type.
This makes it better.
This makes it better.
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Toxicroak
- Thread starter PJ_Graphix
- Start date
A trick user can use the Black Sludge to screw over one of your mons, as opposed to Leftovers as they'll just hold onto it.
And if they hold on to it, that'll screw over you because they have Leftovers. And they get damaged between getting Tricked and getting back. So, you switch to a Choice Pokémon to make them take it back. And if they switch out, you switch in Toxicroak again.
Has anyone considered Specially based Mixcroak with NP/ Vacuum Wave/ HP Ice/ Sucker Punch?
Probably the main thing standing in any Toxicroaks way would be Gliscor, who takes at least 110% from HP Ice ( the most common variants) before a NP boost. As well, HP Ice also hits Skarmory harder than anything Physical Toxicroak has.
The reason the set isn't fully Special is Sucker Punch. Being able to hit faster, frail Psychics who pose a big threat to Toxicroak with SE priority is something that I feel can't be passed up.
I haven't done EV's beyond 252 SpA W/ Modest nature, but its seems like 'Croaks best way of getting past his counters. Gliscor, Physically defensive Grounds and Skarmory are dealt with by HP Ice, Psychics and faster, frail mons are dealt with by Sucker Punch. Opposing Toxicroaks won't like dealing with a boosted HP Ice either.
Probably the main thing standing in any Toxicroaks way would be Gliscor, who takes at least 110% from HP Ice ( the most common variants) before a NP boost. As well, HP Ice also hits Skarmory harder than anything Physical Toxicroak has.
The reason the set isn't fully Special is Sucker Punch. Being able to hit faster, frail Psychics who pose a big threat to Toxicroak with SE priority is something that I feel can't be passed up.
I haven't done EV's beyond 252 SpA W/ Modest nature, but its seems like 'Croaks best way of getting past his counters. Gliscor, Physically defensive Grounds and Skarmory are dealt with by HP Ice, Psychics and faster, frail mons are dealt with by Sucker Punch. Opposing Toxicroaks won't like dealing with a boosted HP Ice either.
What sets are you talking about? All of the OP's have fighting moves listed, as does mine (Vacuum Wave)...
If only toxicroak had a wider movepool, had better speed, and didn't have so many counters. Close combat would be great on him, but no...
Ah well... I think toxicroak has potential to be great in UU...
Ah well... I think toxicroak has potential to be great in UU...
now that dream world is out, why not replace some of those dry skins with poison touch? especially that venom shock one.
even though dry skin allows you to heal in rain and against water moves, the poison touch would allow venom shock to gain its secondary effect,
just a suggestion.
even though dry skin allows you to heal in rain and against water moves, the poison touch would allow venom shock to gain its secondary effect,
just a suggestion.
...I cannot word how much i want to make a team around the Baton Pass Tail Glow Volbeat and this guy with Vacuum Wave/any Special Poison-move. that just may be one of the best synergistic duos i've seen. unfortunately, like any strategy, it has its flaws :/ if only either Manaphy also got Baton Pass or Volbeat were at least a bit more bulky, just in case
Venom's shock's increased damage is way less effective than water immunity + auto-leftovers.
Hi Community I am New to Smogon and this is My first reply So Hey! . Poison Touch + Poison Jab would mean a 50% chance to poison everytime toxicroak hit with poison jab and than you could use venoshock once they are poisoned and maybe HP Fire and Brick Break for coverage or maybe Drain Punch?
I'd say you're right about the inadvisability of going mixed with something with 106/86/85 offenses, but you aren't about how poison touch works. According to the research thread, they do stack, giving an effective chance to induce normal poisoning of 51%. 100*(1 - (1 - .3)(1 - .3)) = 100*(1 - .49) = 51%.
Id rather take any water hits coming my way, no thanks.
I hate Toxicroak. Every time I face one, especially with the following set, I get creamed:
- Bulk Up
- Sucker Punch
- Drain Punch
- Substitute
Looking at that set, I'd guess substitute. That's the set I run.
If you can burn him the frog is done. Honestly, you need to take him out before he sets up. Sun is another good strategy because with dry skin he will lose health every turn. Gliscor and Landorus are good counters if he doesn't carry ice punch/HP ice. BP Scizor, Spiritomb, Skarmory and Hippowdon also make decent counters.
If you can burn him the frog is done. Honestly, you need to take him out before he sets up. Sun is another good strategy because with dry skin he will lose health every turn. Gliscor and Landorus are good counters if he doesn't carry ice punch/HP ice. BP Scizor, Spiritomb, Skarmory and Hippowdon also make decent counters.
...What? Earthquake?...Earthquake? What?
Hitting Poison-types is REALLY worth giving up Mach Punch, Drain Punch, or Payback? Cause I know for a fact it's not.
Toxicroak suffers from extreme over predictability syndrome with always running bulk up, drain punch, sub, and sucker punch. I've found that if you use a ghost smartly against him it's easy to kill him, and any ghost with substitute will stop toxicroak.
Just because it's predictable doesn't mean it's not effective. It's about maneuvering your opponent into a corner where Croak can come in and Bulk Up enough to put the hurt on.
Singles is not the only match style though. Dry-Skin surf abuse is predictable in 2's, but still effective.
Oh I'm not saying he's ineffective, he's an incredible pain in the ass on rain teams. The predictability factor does make him easier to kill though, because when you see toxicroak, 90% chances are he's running the one set everyone runs, and so you know how to react and what it will do. Ghosts that don't full out attack like scarf chandelure can usually take him out easily, and if you have sub on a ghost, tox is dead.
I don't see why Scarf Chandy doesn't full out attack, since if it doesn't it's locked into a non-damaging move allowing Toxicroak to set up more. Any calcs for how much a +1 Sucker Punch does to standard Chandelure?