Actually, it's as simple as this: Just Jolly the Dugtrio, that's all. But it's a lot easier to do than what the dude above said. With Jolly, you can now always play the "sacrifice the Weavile" and then directly go to it afterwards. OR, you Grass Knot the Raikou as it CMs, of course this won't break it's sub, but when you U-Turn next, it will, and you then go to Dugtrio.
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Trap team; 10 months in the making.
- Thread starter gec
- Start date
I would like to see the treat list soon, so we can see you indeed got everything covered. I'd especially like to see what Uxie exactly covers, so the EV spread can be tweaked a bit. Also I would just go with Leftovers over Lum Berry, but that's personal prefer.
Special Attack EVs on Vaporeon are redundant. These are to OHKO Garchomp, but you don't have Ice Beam. I'd go with 252 HP, 252 Defense, 6 Special Defense. But again, I'd like to see what it covers.
Gliscor definately needs Leftovers.
:D
Special Attack EVs on Vaporeon are redundant. These are to OHKO Garchomp, but you don't have Ice Beam. I'd go with 252 HP, 252 Defense, 6 Special Defense. But again, I'd like to see what it covers.
Gliscor definately needs Leftovers.
:D
Well the reason I said you might have trouble with Zapdos is because it can Roost to rid itself of its Ice weakness so you can't really touch it with Magnezone until Thunderbolt paralyzes it. Weavile won't like being Thunderbolted as it switches in and I don't think Ice Shard or Night Slash is OHKOing a Bold Zapdos, maybe not even 2HKOing.
For Raikou it would play the way MoP said it would and rape this team. His fixes were what I was getting at, but forgot to write. Unfortunately that makes Dugtrio's EQ not guaranteed to 2HKO Blissey, who walls this team if it is running the "standard" Ice Beam/ST/T-wave/Softboiled when coupled with a decent physical wall.
For Raikou it would play the way MoP said it would and rape this team. His fixes were what I was getting at, but forgot to write. Unfortunately that makes Dugtrio's EQ not guaranteed to 2HKO Blissey, who walls this team if it is running the "standard" Ice Beam/ST/T-wave/Softboiled when coupled with a decent physical wall.
Wobbatrio is such a good combo though. Should definitely consider it for shoddy. A lot of things will try to use some of their non-attacking moves on wob to stop it countering/mirror coating them which is perfect because you switch to dugtrio and continue the trap and kill.
I actually went with a trap team that utilized every pokemon that could potentially trap something way back in advance rather than try to cover all weaknesses and make a proper team. As such I included porygon2 because of its ability to trap dugtrio lol. Anyway I tried p2 again in a trap team a while back and it made a good counter to heatran and gyarados which the other members have some trouble with. You have vaporeon for that though so it's up to you I suppose.
I actually went with a trap team that utilized every pokemon that could potentially trap something way back in advance rather than try to cover all weaknesses and make a proper team. As such I included porygon2 because of its ability to trap dugtrio lol. Anyway I tried p2 again in a trap team a while back and it made a good counter to heatran and gyarados which the other members have some trouble with. You have vaporeon for that though so it's up to you I suppose.
Hahahaha how about a nice cup of STFU? If you don't have anything to contribute, don't post at all. Get it? Got it? Good.
I don't really play this team on Shoddy anymore. I quit using this team on Shoddy after I got to number 3ish on the ladder. Even then, I don't really want to use Wobbuffet into Shoddy TBH.
And wooo P2 rules :D
how does this team beat a lum berried weavile lead (which isn't as uncommon as I'd expect in my experience)? You yawn it (otherwise, 63.5%), but then they stay in and use night slash, which takes you down to ~50-70 hp. I'm guessing you use uturn, switch to dug3, but then the lum berry activates, weavile has no issue taking a suckerpunch, but dug3 will hate the ice shard (which is necesary for the OHKO on dug3). I'm guessing you choose to switch to vaporeon and retry this. Even if the opponent doesn't switch, lets say they bring in forretress. I'm guessing you sub on this switch. BP to magnezone while forretress uses EQ, kills magnezone sub (forretress is slower). Without the sub, I'm guessing that you will magnet rise first turn, forretress knows it's a moot point and uses toxic spikes, next turn it's tbolt/second tspikes. One more tbolt and forretress is done, but done its job. (current standing: 6-5, uxie is basically dead, toxic spikes are out, magnezone has magnet rise on, vaporeon is at 81%). Note: with no healing moves, 1 layer of tspikes would still hinder vaporeon, enough for 2 subs then death.
lets say your opponent brings in mixape, you have to take the hit with magnezone in order to bring in dug3 effectively. Best case for you, magnezone is left with ~50hp (with leftovers), and infernape is dead (now you're up 6-4). Opponent brings in a mixmence w/ a yache berry, kills the dead weight that is magnezone (5-4), bring in weavile hoping for the easy KO, flamethrower kills you, with salamence at something like 50% (didn't do the calculations on this one) (4-4, 2 of three trappers dead, vap is at 81%, uxie is nearly dead, 100% gliscor, 100% dug3).
Bring in dug3 for the suckerpunch KO (what else do you really have? vaporeon? If vaporeon, draco meteor until dead, if dug3, switch to any pokemon with levitate/flying and yatta yatta you lose.
Ok, i know i COMPLETELY branched out on that, but i guess i got into the idea of beating this team....sorry about that, honestly, the only reason i posted this is that i spent WAY too much time figuring it out to delete it.
but it does seem to me that using a lum berry (or chesto) weavile can really set you up poorly because of the lack of secondary damage from SR (i guess instead of uturn, you could use SR, but then uxie dies....and i dont know if you choose to let a tank die just for SR).
I really should be going to bed...and wow, i definitely used my sleepdeprived state to focus on only this.
btw, raikou lead loves your team (in retrospect, so do a lot of of sub leads (how in the world do you stop ninjask->rhyperior/other bulky dudes) and zapdos with tbolt, hp (ice), rest, sleeptalk, bold/calm, 252hp, 220Def/Spdef, 36Spe.
lets say your opponent brings in mixape, you have to take the hit with magnezone in order to bring in dug3 effectively. Best case for you, magnezone is left with ~50hp (with leftovers), and infernape is dead (now you're up 6-4). Opponent brings in a mixmence w/ a yache berry, kills the dead weight that is magnezone (5-4), bring in weavile hoping for the easy KO, flamethrower kills you, with salamence at something like 50% (didn't do the calculations on this one) (4-4, 2 of three trappers dead, vap is at 81%, uxie is nearly dead, 100% gliscor, 100% dug3).
Bring in dug3 for the suckerpunch KO (what else do you really have? vaporeon? If vaporeon, draco meteor until dead, if dug3, switch to any pokemon with levitate/flying and yatta yatta you lose.
Ok, i know i COMPLETELY branched out on that, but i guess i got into the idea of beating this team....sorry about that, honestly, the only reason i posted this is that i spent WAY too much time figuring it out to delete it.
but it does seem to me that using a lum berry (or chesto) weavile can really set you up poorly because of the lack of secondary damage from SR (i guess instead of uturn, you could use SR, but then uxie dies....and i dont know if you choose to let a tank die just for SR).
I really should be going to bed...and wow, i definitely used my sleepdeprived state to focus on only this.
btw, raikou lead loves your team (in retrospect, so do a lot of of sub leads (how in the world do you stop ninjask->rhyperior/other bulky dudes) and zapdos with tbolt, hp (ice), rest, sleeptalk, bold/calm, 252hp, 220Def/Spdef, 36Spe.
ehhh Weavile w/out Choice or LO doesn't exist, and even if it does it's completely gimmicky....lol
Shed Shell Forry with or without toxic spikes and Shed Shell Skarmory completely ruin this team, since it takes out your main member Vaporeon. You sure you can't fit wish on there somewhere?
And yeah this team has been done many times, but it's kinda hard to pull off. I love the addition of Vaporeon because most of these "trap" teams fail to have something like that. Just putting it out there that Celebi with U turn could be a nice asset to the team.
Vaporeon needs some Spdef if its going to handle Nape's grassknot, lose some sp att.
Mix/specs mence issues are big. How do you deal with them?
Shed Shell Forry with or without toxic spikes and Shed Shell Skarmory completely ruin this team, since it takes out your main member Vaporeon. You sure you can't fit wish on there somewhere?
And yeah this team has been done many times, but it's kinda hard to pull off. I love the addition of Vaporeon because most of these "trap" teams fail to have something like that. Just putting it out there that Celebi with U turn could be a nice asset to the team.
Vaporeon needs some Spdef if its going to handle Nape's grassknot, lose some sp att.
Mix/specs mence issues are big. How do you deal with them?
Anyways, other faster trappers (hi Scarf Trio) spell doom as they easily revenge trap and take out the core of the team leaving you with 3 walls that have limited moveslots because of U-Turn/BP, which means you're easily broken. Basically it comes down to outpredicting the Dugtrio when Weavile comes in on revenge, which isn't ideal.
Edit: You're right astrohawke, I always thought Vappy was lighter. Either way 120 BP isn't all that much considering Vappy's stats.
Edit: You're right astrohawke, I always thought Vappy was lighter. Either way 120 BP isn't all that much considering Vappy's stats.
Eh where are you getting your numbers? I pretty sure GK BP against vaporeon is 60 and with SE it's 120.
I've placed those 68 Sp.Att points into 68 Sp.Def.
Also, I've put Wish over Substitute since I wasn't using it much.
About SpecsMence, I usually have to outpredict my opponent but it ain't too hard. Weavile always takes it down in the end.
This is a very nice team, i really like the concept. I have search through the team and i have found a lot of problems with the team. Life Orb Salamence will give your team problems, and also Swords Dance garchomp ( even though every team is probably weak to it ) Also, Lucario with Swords Dance, Extreme Speed, Close Combat and Hidden Power [ Ice ] (which is what i run) will walk through this team once your CB Weavile is stuck Ice Shard or Pursuit.
I under stand no team is perfect, i see no need to adjust your team just for a few Pokemon who dismantle it, because then you will open up another flaw to another Pokemon, which in turn makes the team adjusting procedure perpetual. So just try to avoid being in that situation. I also think a Roost and Swords Dance Scizor will cause problems as well. Swords Dance, Roost, Brick Break, Iron Head/ X-Scissor/Quick Attack. It will even beat Gliscor thanks to Roost.
So maybe you can adjust some of your thinking when playing, because replacing your Pokemon will defeat the purpose of your "Trapping" team. So i wish that you persist on being successful, so many my rant will aid that crusade.
I under stand no team is perfect, i see no need to adjust your team just for a few Pokemon who dismantle it, because then you will open up another flaw to another Pokemon, which in turn makes the team adjusting procedure perpetual. So just try to avoid being in that situation. I also think a Roost and Swords Dance Scizor will cause problems as well. Swords Dance, Roost, Brick Break, Iron Head/ X-Scissor/Quick Attack. It will even beat Gliscor thanks to Roost.
So maybe you can adjust some of your thinking when playing, because replacing your Pokemon will defeat the purpose of your "Trapping" team. So i wish that you persist on being successful, so many my rant will aid that crusade.
Maybe I'm just completely oblivious to this solution, but how would you manage to kill Scarftran?
I think the main switch-in to scarfchomp is Gliscor, but just if Chomp isnt running DracoMeteor. And i think the Chomp is more worth than a dead of a IceFang, so the opponnent is probably going to switch out. And if not, Gliscor is still slower than Chomp, so Weavile can come easily on Outrage and revenge kill it..
He wasn't actually being a complete asshole, because this team - almost in its entirety - has been made before, by me. I can't find the RMT on Smogon anymore but I also posted it here if you're interested.
The primary difference between our teams is your use of Vaporeon compared to my use of Suicune. I believe I gave Vaporeon a whirl at some point and switched to Suicune for one reason alone: The team has nothing to "set up" and thus has trouble overcoming a threat the trappers can't quickly take out.
The thing I quickly found is that while Maggy/Weavile/Duggy take out a good chunk of stuff, there's equally as much that they can't just come in and kill. Its been a while since I used the team, but for example the standard Rest Talk Machamp set with Dynamicpunch and Ice Punch will cause you problems, because your trappers get killed by it before it can kill them, Gliscor can't wall its Ice Punch and even Uxie, who isn't even weak to it, will still get confused by DP, hacked at by Ice Punch and his Yawn rendered useless by Rest and/or Sleep Talk.
Which is why I think something bulky that can make itself a threat through stat-ups is very important to a team like this, because it helps avoid getting backed into a corner. I think I changed my Suicune from the one in the RMT above, and gave it the Crocune set specifically to help it serve the primary purpose of your Vaporeon (a bulky resist to several weaknesses) as well as to provide me with something that can set up and cause damage late game if the only pokemon my opponent has left aren't threatened by my trappers.
You've obviously had more success with your team than I had with mine, which could either mean yours is better developed or I just don't play Shoddy enough, lol. Either way, I'd definitely recommend a Plan B for those times when things don't go your way (yes, all 15 of them!).
Very impressive win/loss btw.