SS OU Triple defog stall peaked #1 at 2118 points

[ronaldo o fenomeno]

Importabile https://pokepast.es/ab596b78ae7f9369
Hi everyone this is my first rmt. I played competitive pokemon for almost 1 year now so so once my confidence as a player grew up I wanted to reach the top of the ladder. I always played with some unconventional heat teams that I built myself that were very funny to use, however competitively speaking they were not solid enaugh to reach the first spot in the ladder (I was in the mid 1700s) . So i decided to switch to more solid archetipes and I saw a big difference in the gxe that got around 83 from 77. My gxe was so terribile as I never used alts to test the heat shit that I was building so I usually lost games on team preview due to forgetting to cover something in the builder. Then once I reached the 1900s, I started switching to even fatter archetipes as I felt very confortable with those, and I felt like my builds were just very solid. After getting to the 2000s I built this unconventional stall, using quagsire over clefable. Quagsire in my opinion is a very underexplored pokemon in this metagame but it does such an excellent job, and his role compression is insane. It gives the team an electric immunity while being able to stop most of the physical set up sweepers in the game. Haze allows him to stall out pokemons such as cm reuni and cm clef with the help of his teammates. As I started building around earthquake less quagsire, I immediately thought about counterplay for heatran, so I came up with defog spdef dragonite. Multiscale allows dragonite to survive pretty much every hit in the game which can come very handy in certain situations. Flamethrower allows dragonite to be an emergency option for kartana, meteor beam celesteela, scizor and to also annoy ferrothorn while it is setting up his hazards. The ev spread allows dnite to outspeed defensive heatrans so you don’t have to play 50 50s with taunt. I then added zapdos to form a hazard control core with dnite. Pressure allows zap to stall out the opposing hazard setters like lando and ferrothorn. Zapdos is used as an answer to kartana, which is a nightmare for quagsire, and helps quag in dealing with bisharp, landorus, melmeltal scizor and buzzwole. Zap can also be used as an answer to some annoying tapu fini. The fourth mon I added was blissey. Leftovers over boots as I had double defog and lefties are very important to keep bliss healthy while absorbing dragapult u-turns and volt switch from things like offensive zapdos (as quag gets cooked by hurricane), heliolisk, toxicitry and tapu koko. Blissey eats those special hits and can heal the team with heal bell or cripple opposing pokemons with toxic. I then added toxapex, which is the glue of many stall teams due to his durability and his amazing ability in regenerator. Pex helps the team scouting a lot of sets as it survives any hit due to his stellar defences. It absorbs annoying tspikes and gives the team an answer to weavile, tapu fini (poison jab), buzzwole, the initial switch to blacephalon, melmeltal, rillaboom, and many others. The team now has an insane weakness to tapu lele, toxic landorus therian and garchomp, cm clef and cm hatterene so corvinight was the sixth pokemon. Spdef Corvi is so important in allowing the team to stall out cosmic power taunt mew as pressure plus the insane special bulk plus the steel type plus leftovers recovery allow corvi to drain stored power pps easily but you have to keep lefties and keep corvi very healthy throughout the game. The main problem with this team is that it cannot force progress against regen cores due to the fact that it doesn’t have hazard nor trappers to deal with them so you are going to have to draw those games. Keep in mind that to deal with future sight slowking g you can go corvi and u turn after they future sight. Against slowbro and slowking you have to position your mons right to be able to deal with the breaker that uses fs to his advantage.


Feel free to help improving this team. The dnite ev spread might be improved.
Cheers

 

[ronaldo o fenomeno]

 

[RaikouLover]

Props for the rank and being different. Though I can’t help but ask is there reason triple defog is so vital? The team really has no way to force progress outside of Toxic. Would be nice to fit a wincon in there…

As for threat list, watch for special attacking set up sweepers. They rip through this team rather quickly if played correctly - (CM Tapu Lele, NP Genies, etc etc). Also, Freeze Dry Arctozolt is quite mean.

 

[ronaldo o fenomeno]

I absolutel

Props for the rank and being different. Though I can’t help but ask is there reason triple defog is so vital? The team really has no way to force progress outside of Toxic. Would be nice to fit a wincon in there…

As for threat list, watch for special attacking set up sweepers. They rip through this team rather quickly if played correctly - (CM Tapu Lele, NP Genies, etc etc). Also, Freeze Dry Arctozolt is quite mean.

Ty for your reply I absolutely agree with your points. So triple defog is not mandatory, but I found myself really relying on that to win games. The team can actually force progress with pex removing items and fishing for poisons and zap and dnite hitting with their borderline decent attacks but of course against a heal bell blissey it’s going to be very hard if not impossible to break. I found very hard to fit rocks on the team but there definitely is room for improvement. Freezy dry arctozolt is just clicking x while corvi can deal with lele thru iron head even cm versions. For np genies you have to land a toxic and stall them out. If you have any suggestions I would be grateful. Cheers

 

[Smashburn]

Finally, a kind stall player



Cool team btw!

 

[ronaldo o fenomeno]

Finally, a kind stall player



Cool team btw!

Ty mate.

 

[ronaldo o fenomeno]

That’s the proof of the peak by the way I forgot to add that

 

[zReptar]

View attachment 384139
That’s the proof of the peak by the way I forgot to add that

1. i have that computer lol
2. nice peak
3. seeing a kind stall player is very are love to see it
4. nice team triple defog is fun
5. looking forward to seeing more from ya GL!!!

 

[ronaldo o fenomeno]

1. i have that computer lol
2. nice peak
3. seeing a kind stall player is very are love to see it
4. nice team triple defog is fun
5. looking forward to seeing more from ya GL!!!

Ty mate

 

[glava222]

Gotta say this general team comp of bliss/pex/quag/dragonite/metal bird is my favorite type of stall this gen by far,and is definitely the one that I would suggest to most players starting out with stall, as it's both very intuitive to pilot and not as MU fishy as some other stall archetypes like shed stall. Also spdef stallnite is a really underestimated mon and stall GOAT imo.
Since I have a decent bit of experience playing a similar team I would like to give a few suggestions (will be in order from stuff im most certain of to least certain of, also keep in mind that I only ever reached mid 1800's so you might have a better idea than me):

1. I would replace shed shell on pex for something else, preferably RH. The only trappers that pex is liable to run into are tran and tapu fini. You already have tran covered very very well with dragonite so you dont need pex for it, and zapdos forces fini out, so I would say that you are not that afraid it of either. What RH allows you to do is a radical change in some matchups: since this iteration of the team is quite light on residual damage, rocky helmet allows you to push the game state forward in your advantage against some really good mons, namely urshifu-ss and dragapult. both of these mons couldn't really hurt your team before, but you couldnt really do much back to them(especially without rocks), since they would mostly just spam uturn on you as you brought your counter in and make things mildly annoying for you. But with RH pex, you get a way to punish that u-turn spam and make them lock into another move(at least for pult), which stops their momentum dead, and makes the exchanges much more favored for you.

2. I would move heal bell from blissey to dragonite: the reason for this is twofold. The first reason is that this frees up one of blissey's moveslots, which I will explain why it could be useful to you. While I personally usually run protect on my version of a team quite similar to this to make guarding against FS shenanigans easier, a move that would be much better for your specific version would be rocks, as this change would actually allow you to fit rocks into the team, which would again make your chip plan much much stronger. The other reasons is more tempo based and has to do with heatran. Since the opposing player kinda knows you are bringing dragonite in, there is a good chance it will go for toxic to annoy you a bit. If your heal bell is not on dnite then you have to switch dragonite out to blissey to heal it which can be awkward at times as blissey cannot really do that on demand since there are a lot of powerful physical attackers which might not let her do it. But if heal bell is on dragonite, you can just heal your status as you force the tran out, even better if something else on your team is statused as well, since the trade just gets more positive for you.

3. I might consider swapping out corvi for skarmory. skarmory brings spikes, another way of forcing some progress. It also has some interesting options to stop opposing defensive mons from undoing your hard work, in whirlwind, which can also force chip on some fragile mons of theirs, or taunt, to stop opposing corvi from just coming in on you and defogging or even healing. ID is of course also a solid option. While this does leave your team without a solid answer to lele, it is important to note that several members of your team just eat up several of its attacks: skarmory can take and heal off psyshock and moonblast, blissey eats up everything except for psyshock(focus blast from non modest variants does just under 50%) and big chungus dnite can actually take everything if you dont switch into a moonblast(provided you have multiscale up of course),and is a really underrated scout for lele if the situation calls for it, it is just incredibly fat:
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 244+ SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 169-199 (43.7 - 51.5%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO(it needs a high roll for a super effective specs attack to just break its multiscale if you roost).
Skarmory might even allow you to do better against lele than corvi if the lele in question has electric coverage since you can restrict its switch ins with spikes. Another thing I realized about the hazard game at some point is that another way to keep your side of the field clear of hazards is to just stack more hazards than them. This team structure can last longer against hazard stack than a lot of teams so the opponent might be forced to defog themselves if you for example trade rocks+2 layers of spikes for their rocks+ 2 layers of spikes, and not defogging yourself and forcing the opponent to defog basically gives you net two turns of tempo(as an aside, if you decide to try this out, it might be good to also switch blissey to HDB), and is also less prone to getting abused by gapdos which seems to be rising in the meta. I can understand if the more prediction reliant play against lele might not make this playstyle your cup of tea though.

I hope that my suggestions weren't too dumb and that I managed to explain the reasoning behind them well, and wish you the best with this honestly great team comp, also sorry for the wall of text, my rambling got a bit out of control

 

[ronaldo o fenomeno]

Gotta say this general team comp of bliss/pex/quag/dragonite/metal bird is my favorite type of stall this gen by far,and is definitely the one that I would suggest to most players starting out with stall, as it's both very intuitive to pilot and not as MU fishy as some other stall archetypes like shed stall. Also spdef stallnite is a really underestimated mon and stall GOAT imo.
Since I have a decent bit of experience playing a similar team I would like to give a few suggestions (will be in order from stuff im most certain of to least certain of, also keep in mind that I only ever reached mid 1800's so you might have a better idea than me):

1. I would replace shed shell on pex for something else, preferably RH. The only trappers that pex is liable to run into are tran and tapu fini. You already have tran covered very very well with dragonite so you dont need pex for it, and zapdos forces fini out, so I would say that you are not that afraid it of either. What RH allows you to do is a radical change in some matchups: since this iteration of the team is quite light on residual damage, rocky helmet allows you to push the game state forward in your advantage against some really good mons, namely urshifu-ss and dragapult. both of these mons couldn't really hurt your team before, but you couldnt really do much back to them(especially without rocks), since they would mostly just spam uturn on you as you brought your counter in and make things mildly annoying for you. But with RH pex, you get a way to punish that u-turn spam and make them lock into another move(at least for pult), which stops their momentum dead, and makes the exchanges much more favored for you.

2. I would move heal bell from blissey to dragonite: the reason for this is twofold. The first reason is that this frees up one of blissey's moveslots, which I will explain why it could be useful to you. While I personally usually run protect on my version of a team quite similar to this to make guarding against FS shenanigans easier, a move that would be much better for your specific version would be rocks, as this change would actually allow you to fit rocks into the team, which would again make your chip plan much much stronger. The other reasons is more tempo based and has to do with heatran. Since the opposing player kinda knows you are bringing dragonite in, there is a good chance it will go for toxic to annoy you a bit. If your heal bell is not on dnite then you have to switch dragonite out to blissey to heal it which can be awkward at times as blissey cannot really do that on demand since there are a lot of powerful physical attackers which might not let her do it. But if heal bell is on dragonite, you can just heal your status as you force the tran out, even better if something else on your team is statused as well, since the trade just gets more positive for you.

3. I might consider swapping out corvi for skarmory. skarmory brings spikes, another way of forcing some progress. It also has some interesting options to stop opposing defensive mons from undoing your hard work, in whirlwind, which can also force chip on some fragile mons of theirs, or taunt, to stop opposing corvi from just coming in on you and defogging or even healing. ID is of course also a solid option. While this does leave your team without a solid answer to lele, it is important to note that several members of your team just eat up several of its attacks: skarmory can take and heal off psyshock and moonblast, blissey eats up everything except for psyshock(focus blast from non modest variants does just under 50%) and big chungus dnite can actually take everything if you dont switch into a moonblast(provided you have multiscale up of course),and is a really underrated scout for lele if the situation calls for it, it is just incredibly fat:
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 244+ SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 169-199 (43.7 - 51.5%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO(it needs a high roll for a super effective specs attack to just break its multiscale if you roost).
Skarmory might even allow you to do better against lele than corvi if the lele in question has electric coverage since you can restrict its switch ins with spikes. Another thing I realized about the hazard game at some point is that another way to keep your side of the field clear of hazards is to just stack more hazards than them. This team structure can last longer against hazard stack than a lot of teams so the opponent might be forced to defog themselves if you for example trade rocks+2 layers of spikes for their rocks+ 2 layers of spikes, and not defogging yourself and forcing the opponent to defog basically gives you net two turns of tempo(as an aside, if you decide to try this out, it might be good to also switch blissey to HDB), and is also less prone to getting abused by gapdos which seems to be rising in the meta. I can understand if the more prediction reliant play against lele might not make this playstyle your cup of tea though.

I hope that my suggestions weren't too dumb and that I managed to explain the reasoning behind them well, and wish you the best with this honestly great team comp, also sorry for the wall of text, my rambling got a bit out of control

I absolutely loved your analysis and I feel like it’s a very deep one. Of course all the changes have their pros and cons, but your understanding of the game is just amazing in my opinion. The reason why I chose defog dnite over heal bell, (I was debating this when I built the team) is that I always found myself getting in trouble against rocks heatran, and dnite partially solved this. What I thought was that toxic on dnite wasn’t too big of a deal since Tran can’t really do much after toxic and it can’t stay in to do anything against dnite, while risking getting cooked by eq. But of course you just can’t cover everything and rocks are so important so I agree with you that this change would solve a lot of issues. Regarding skarm it’s really a matter of preference in my opinion as you have to chose how to fight hazard wars either by forcing your opponent to defog or by defogging yourself. The issue I had with skarm is that toxic+stealth rock lando t and lele become huge issues and I did not really see what can skarm cover that isn’t already covered by the physical defenders(zapdos quag pex)(probably sd lando and chomp). Ty a lot for your reply, I’ll definitely test the team with your changes although I’m taking a break since I reached first place and I have some other goals to reach in other fields( mostly chess.)

 

[glava222]

I absolutely loved your analysis and I feel like it’s a very deep one. Of course all the changes have their pros and cons, but your understanding of the game is just amazing in my opinion. The reason why I chose defog dnite over heal bell, (I was debating this when I built the team) is that I always found myself getting in trouble against rocks heatran, and dnite partially solved this. What I thought was that toxic on dnite wasn’t too big of a deal since Tran can’t really do much after toxic and it can’t stay in to do anything against dnite, while risking getting cooked by eq. But of course you just can’t cover everything and rocks are so important so I agree with you that this change would solve a lot of issues. Regarding skarm it’s really a matter of preference in my opinion as you have to chose how to fight hazard wars either by forcing your opponent to defog or by defogging yourself. The issue I had with skarm is that toxic+stealth rock lando t and lele become huge issues and I did not really see what can skarm cover that isn’t already covered by the physical defenders(zapdos quag pex)(probably sd lando and chomp). Ty a lot for your reply, I’ll definitely test the team with your changes although I’m taking a break since I reached first place and I have some other goals to reach in other fields( mostly chess.)

thanks a lot for the kind words, they are really appreciated.
I agree with your skarm assessment, it is a matter of preference mostly, corvi lets you check a bit more(most importantly tapu lele), and replacing it with skarm is definitely a tradeoff that forces you to play a more predictive game sometimes(again,especially against tapu lele), but even though it checks a bit less, its other tools in spikes and whirlwind, as well as its slightly but noticeably better speed tier make it a bit more proactive. I think both are very viable on stall and even on the same teams, and whichever you chose is good if you are prepared to play around them. A small note is that specially defensive skarm can actually take less than 50% from everything except focus miss, but this is entering heat territory a bit.
On your reasoning for toxicing dnite, another small boon of heal belling immediately is that toxic can break your multiscale when you don't want, causing you to lose out on some checks you might otherwise have(it will still be broken the first time since you cant roost and heal bell on the same turn, but at least its a bit more in your control), but yh its mostly for freeing up blissey. Also on a semi unrelated note that is really interesting to me, dnite even has a niche in hail MUs, as it can RK arctozolt from reasonably high percentages if you bring it in after a KO, since its multiscale wont be broken by hail that way, it doesnt even die to LO blizzard from zolt unless it has an obscene amount of spa investment and can do a meaty chunk back with an EQ(or flamethrower for that matter)
Also gotta say im lovinghat you are using zap rn, with gapdos rising in the meta.
Well gotta go sleep now but really really appreciate you bringing this core up and doing so well with it, as I have been using something similair since kyurem was still legal(the black version), and having a lot of fun with it
EDIT: oh yh i was a bit curious, what breakpoints do the spdef EVs on quagsire reach?

 

[Mimikyu Stardust]

first of all grats on the rank, second of all you owe me a drink for the pain you caused me during your peak as for the team i have a few questions.


How do you deal reliably with Magnezone + Good sweeper (Lele, Mew, torn-t)?? spdef corvi is no joke but a well timed magnezone would just destroy your team, first example with mew spdef corvi is your counter (as you specify) but after just one misplay, you are kind of toast, usually stall teams would have outs for example: Jirachi can infinitely tank and even status with Body slam, Torn-T outspeeds and taunt it rendering it useless and well... you get the point (these mons also beat Lele). Lele also looks mean vs this considering many sets run Thunder for corviknight (not even counting zone) and its just one small chip on Blissey and Quag for a Psyshock spam.

How do you deal with SD Kart on more offensive teams? I feel like deep into the battle its almost impossible vs a Rilla+Kart team of some sort to not have broken your Dragonite's multiscale and have just a small chip on zapdos so +2 Kart ohkoes it, corvi isnt an answer here and is super free set

 

[remetagross]

Really nice team, well done for the peak, and having done so without rocks is an impressive feat.

Quick question for you stallers: is there any other way to handle trapper Heatran than Dragonite? It seems I'm always seeing this SpDef Dragonite around on stall specifically to counter that one Heatran set.

 

[glava222]

Really nice team, well done for the peak, and having done so without rocks is an impressive feat.

Quick question for you stallers: is there any other way to handle trapper Heatran than Dragonite? It seems I'm always seeing this SpDef Dragonite around on stall specifically to counter that one Heatran set.

Gastrodon is also really good, and i have seen air baloon ditto used

 

[Apokryfi eftychía]

Gotta say this general team comp of bliss/pex/quag/dragonite/metal bird is my favorite type of stall this gen by far,and is definitely the one that I would suggest to most players starting out with stall, as it's both very intuitive to pilot and not as MU fishy as some other stall archetypes like shed stall. Also spdef stallnite is a really underestimated mon and stall GOAT imo.
Since I have a decent bit of experience playing a similar team I would like to give a few suggestions (will be in order from stuff im most certain of to least certain of, also keep in mind that I only ever reached mid 1800's so you might have a better idea than me):

1. I would replace shed shell on pex for something else, preferably RH. The only trappers that pex is liable to run into are tran and tapu fini. You already have tran covered very very well with dragonite so you dont need pex for it, and zapdos forces fini out, so I would say that you are not that afraid it of either. What RH allows you to do is a radical change in some matchups: since this iteration of the team is quite light on residual damage, rocky helmet allows you to push the game state forward in your advantage against some really good mons, namely urshifu-ss and dragapult. both of these mons couldn't really hurt your team before, but you couldnt really do much back to them(especially without rocks), since they would mostly just spam uturn on you as you brought your counter in and make things mildly annoying for you. But with RH pex, you get a way to punish that u-turn spam and make them lock into another move(at least for pult), which stops their momentum dead, and makes the exchanges much more favored for you.

2. I would move heal bell from blissey to dragonite: the reason for this is twofold. The first reason is that this frees up one of blissey's moveslots, which I will explain why it could be useful to you. While I personally usually run protect on my version of a team quite similar to this to make guarding against FS shenanigans easier, a move that would be much better for your specific version would be rocks, as this change would actually allow you to fit rocks into the team, which would again make your chip plan much much stronger. The other reasons is more tempo based and has to do with heatran. Since the opposing player kinda knows you are bringing dragonite in, there is a good chance it will go for toxic to annoy you a bit. If your heal bell is not on dnite then you have to switch dragonite out to blissey to heal it which can be awkward at times as blissey cannot really do that on demand since there are a lot of powerful physical attackers which might not let her do it. But if heal bell is on dragonite, you can just heal your status as you force the tran out, even better if something else on your team is statused as well, since the trade just gets more positive for you.

3. I might consider swapping out corvi for skarmory. skarmory brings spikes, another way of forcing some progress. It also has some interesting options to stop opposing defensive mons from undoing your hard work, in whirlwind, which can also force chip on some fragile mons of theirs, or taunt, to stop opposing corvi from just coming in on you and defogging or even healing. ID is of course also a solid option. While this does leave your team without a solid answer to lele, it is important to note that several members of your team just eat up several of its attacks: skarmory can take and heal off psyshock and moonblast, blissey eats up everything except for psyshock(focus blast from non modest variants does just under 50%) and big chungus dnite can actually take everything if you dont switch into a moonblast(provided you have multiscale up of course),and is a really underrated scout for lele if the situation calls for it, it is just incredibly fat:
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 244+ SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 169-199 (43.7 - 51.5%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO(it needs a high roll for a super effective specs attack to just break its multiscale if you roost).
Skarmory might even allow you to do better against lele than corvi if the lele in question has electric coverage since you can restrict its switch ins with spikes. Another thing I realized about the hazard game at some point is that another way to keep your side of the field clear of hazards is to just stack more hazards than them. This team structure can last longer against hazard stack than a lot of teams so the opponent might be forced to defog themselves if you for example trade rocks+2 layers of spikes for their rocks+ 2 layers of spikes, and not defogging yourself and forcing the opponent to defog basically gives you net two turns of tempo(as an aside, if you decide to try this out, it might be good to also switch blissey to HDB), and is also less prone to getting abused by gapdos which seems to be rising in the meta. I can understand if the more prediction reliant play against lele might not make this playstyle your cup of tea though.

I hope that my suggestions weren't too dumb and that I managed to explain the reasoning behind them well, and wish you the best with this honestly great team comp, also sorry for the wall of text, my rambling got a bit out of control

Frankly had the exact same thoughts about skarmory, but was wondering what item you'd give it (Rocky helmet perhaps?) and what would you use for the last move (assuming others are whirlwind, Roost, spikes)
Also would you happen to have any suggestions as a replacement for zapdos?

 

[Apokryfi eftychía]

Importabile https://pokepast.es/ab596b78ae7f9369
Hi everyone this is my first rmt. I played competitive pokemon for almost 1 year now so so once my confidence as a player grew up I wanted to reach the top of the ladder. I always played with some unconventional heat teams that I built myself that were very funny to use, however competitively speaking they were not solid enaugh to reach the first spot in the ladder (I was in the mid 1700s) . So i decided to switch to more solid archetipes and I saw a big difference in the gxe that got around 83 from 77. My gxe was so terribile as I never used alts to test the heat shit that I was building so I usually lost games on team preview due to forgetting to cover something in the builder. Then once I reached the 1900s, I started switching to even fatter archetipes as I felt very confortable with those, and I felt like my builds were just very solid. After getting to the 2000s I built this unconventional stall, using quagsire over clefable. Quagsire in my opinion is a very underexplored pokemon in this metagame but it does such an excellent job, and his role compression is insane. It gives the team an electric immunity while being able to stop most of the physical set up sweepers in the game. Haze allows him to stall out pokemons such as cm reuni and cm clef with the help of his teammates. As I started building around earthquake less quagsire, I immediately thought about counterplay for heatran, so I came up with defog spdef dragonite. Multiscale allows dragonite to survive pretty much every hit in the game which can come very handy in certain situations. Flamethrower allows dragonite to be an emergency option for kartana, meteor beam celesteela, scizor and to also annoy ferrothorn while it is setting up his hazards. The ev spread allows dnite to outspeed defensive heatrans so you don’t have to play 50 50s with taunt. I then added zapdos to form a hazard control core with dnite. Pressure allows zap to stall out the opposing hazard setters like lando and ferrothorn. Zapdos is used as an answer to kartana, which is a nightmare for quagsire, and helps quag in dealing with bisharp, landorus, melmeltal scizor and buzzwole. Zap can also be used as an answer to some annoying tapu fini. The fourth mon I added was blissey. Leftovers over boots as I had double defog and lefties are very important to keep bliss healthy while absorbing dragapult u-turns and volt switch from things like offensive zapdos (as quag gets cooked by hurricane), heliolisk, toxicitry and tapu koko. Blissey eats those special hits and can heal the team with heal bell or cripple opposing pokemons with toxic. I then added toxapex, which is the glue of many stall teams due to his durability and his amazing ability in regenerator. Pex helps the team scouting a lot of sets as it survives any hit due to his stellar defences. It absorbs annoying tspikes and gives the team an answer to weavile, tapu fini (poison jab), buzzwole, the initial switch to blacephalon, melmeltal, rillaboom, and many others. The team now has an insane weakness to tapu lele, toxic landorus therian and garchomp, cm clef and cm hatterene so corvinight was the sixth pokemon. Spdef Corvi is so important in allowing the team to stall out cosmic power taunt mew as pressure plus the insane special bulk plus the steel type plus leftovers recovery allow corvi to drain stored power pps easily but you have to keep lefties and keep corvi very healthy throughout the game. The main problem with this team is that it cannot force progress against regen cores due to the fact that it doesn’t have hazard nor trappers to deal with them so you are going to have to draw those games. Keep in mind that to deal with future sight slowking g you can go corvi and u turn after they future sight. Against slowbro and slowking you have to position your mons right to be able to deal with the breaker that uses fs to his advantage.


Feel free to help improving this team. The dnite ev spread might be improved.
Cheers

I'm quite new to the community and pokemon competitive pvp in general. Just wondering why you've decided to use defog on 3 pokes when even one of them being a different move can possibly cover more ground
2 defogs I can understand being slightly unpredictable, a back up and just stall in general.

Also, how do you deal w taunt pokes, magnezone on corvi and other stalls w a bit offensive power?

Can't help but feel this team is high skilled haha

 

[ronaldo o fenomeno]

first of all grats on the rank, second of all you owe me a drink for the pain you caused me during your peak as for the team i have a few questions.


How do you deal reliably with Magnezone + Good sweeper (Lele, Mew, torn-t)?? spdef corvi is no joke but a well timed magnezone would just destroy your team, first example with mew spdef corvi is your counter (as you specify) but after just one misplay, you are kind of toast, usually stall teams would have outs for example: Jirachi can infinitely tank and even status with Body slam, Torn-T outspeeds and taunt it rendering it useless and well... you get the point (these mons also beat Lele). Lele also looks mean vs this considering many sets run Thunder for corviknight (not even counting zone) and its just one small chip on Blissey and Quag for a Psyshock spam.

How do you deal with SD Kart on more offensive teams? I feel like deep into the battle its almost impossible vs a Rilla+Kart team of some sort to not have broken your Dragonite's multiscale and have just a small chip on zapdos so +2 Kart ohkoes it, corvi isnt an answer here and is super free set

Zone plus lele is a big problem but it has to be some spatack invested zone otherwise corvi can stall out tbolt or u turn out. It does something around 50-55 uninvested. Against kart plus rilla you have to keep dnite and zap healthy there is no other way around it. We’ll have a drink haha you definitely deserve it. Ty for the reply

 

[ronaldo o fenomeno]

I'm quite new to the community and pokemon competitive pvp in general. Just wondering why you've decided to use defog on 3 pokes when even one of them being a different move can possibly cover more ground
2 defogs I can understand being slightly unpredictable, a back up and just stall in general.

Also, how do you deal w taunt pokes, magnezone on corvi and other stalls w a bit offensive power?

Can't help but feel this team is high skilled haha

Hy bro Ty for the reply. I decided to use triple defog in order to keep hazards off against the majority of the setters in the game. This is very important in order to win or draw most of the games as winning the hazard war allows your walls to function much better and it allows them to use leftovers over boots which is key to stop any volt turn strategy.

 

[Jaajgko]

Nice team, idt the unwinnable mus against double regen plus magic guard is a huge issue if you're playing on the ladder, going for the tie is fine there. I think the team is a bit outdated tho, because of CB Beat Up Weavile's rise. You need a dark resist against that monster. So I've came up with different ideas to solve this:
Hydreigon > Dragonite : Hydreigon can deal with defog Heatran and thus form an almost perfect dual defog core with Corviknight, while also providing a dark resist and psychic immunity, further improving the match-up against Mew and Lele, while also having a better switch-in to Trick Blacephalon. For the set to work you need Earth Power, Roost and Defog, and as the last move you can either go for Flamethrower or Dark Pulse. I prefer Dark Pulse to be able to hit Air Balloon Heatran, as well as punishing the slowtins that'd want to Teleport on you to safely bring in Urshifu, Weavile or Kartana. Obviously this makes you weaker to grass types (and Scizor), but you should be fine with Zapdos + Corviknight, especially if you pack a flying move on one of them as a change.
Another idea would be to use Buzzwole over Zapdos, but this would make the team weak to Tornadus and more vunerable to Future Sight, so it's a lesser option, but it lets the team be played in a slightly more proactive way with RH + Buzzwoles power.
And lastly you could use Clefable over Quagsire, and Rest Defog Lando over Dragonite, but I'm a bit skeptical about Rest Lando's viability even with wish + hb support. This has the advantage of potentially having stealth rock (either HB Clef and SR Bliss, or SR Clef and HB Bliss).
Also, instead of going for triple defog, you could run some kind of Sub Zapdos, that could maybe help with the unwinnable mus to make the team a better pick in tournaments. Sub HDB/Lefties with Charge Beam or Sub Metronome 2 attacks could work (maybe even with Tspikes Pex), but I have yet to try its effectiveness against fat teams. Sub also has the advantage of letting you play around future sight better.

Regarding Corviknight pp stalling Zone: you do need to be very careful about paralysis. The opponent can also just go for an Iron Defense. With Hydreigon in the team you can go for U-Turn and not instantly lose a mon to Lele unless it's CM

 

[ronaldo o fenomeno]

ay jaajgko ty

Nice team, idt the unwinnable mus against double regen plus magic guard is a huge issue if you're playing on the ladder, going for the tie is fine there. I think the team is a bit outdated tho, because of CB Beat Up Weavile's rise. You need a dark resist against that monster. So I've came up with different ideas to solve this:
Hydreigon > Dragonite : Hydreigon can deal with defog Heatran and thus form an almost perfect dual defog core with Corviknight, while also providing a dark resist and psychic immunity, further improving the match-up against Mew and Lele, while also having a better switch-in to Trick Blacephalon. For the set to work you need Earth Power, Roost and Defog, and as the last move you can either go for Flamethrower or Dark Pulse. I prefer Dark Pulse to be able to hit Air Balloon Heatran, as well as punishing the slowtins that'd want to Teleport on you to safely bring in Urshifu, Weavile or Kartana. Obviously this makes you weaker to grass types (and Scizor), but you should be fine with Zapdos + Corviknight, especially if you pack a flying move on one of them as a change.
Another idea would be to use Buzzwole over Zapdos, but this would make the team weak to Tornadus and more vunerable to Future Sight, so it's a lesser option, but it lets the team be played in a slightly more proactive way with RH + Buzzwoles power.
And lastly you could use Clefable over Quagsire, and Rest Defog Lando over Dragonite, but I'm a bit skeptical about Rest Lando's viability even with wish + hb support. This has the advantage of potentially having stealth rock (either HB Clef and SR Bliss, or SR Clef and HB Bliss).
Also, instead of going for triple defog, you could run some kind of Sub Zapdos, that could maybe help with the unwinnable mus to make the team a better pick in tournaments. Sub HDB/Lefties with Charge Beam or Sub Metronome 2 attacks could work (maybe even with Tspikes Pex), but I have yet to try its effectiveness against fat teams. Sub also has the advantage of letting you play around future sight better.

Regarding Corviknight pp stalling Zone: you do need to be very careful about paralysis. The opponent can also just go for an Iron Defense. With Hydreigon in the team you can go for U-Turn and not instantly lose a mon to Lele unless it's CM

Ty for the reply you made really good points. I completely agree with the hydreigon over dnite change as yeah this team is very outdated rn and beat up weavile was not a thing back then, but still not having hazards and not forcing progress vs regen cores sucks so this team really needs a big change in order to see the light once again. I'll post a new rmt maybe with a refreshed version of this team.

 

[Vkhss]

This guy is cracked fr , gz on peak , and nice rmt.

 

[Nir1x]

ay jaajgko ty

Ty for the reply you made really good points. I completely agree with the hydreigon over dnite change as yeah this team is very outdated rn and beat up weavile was not a thing back then, but still not having hazards and not forcing progress vs regen cores sucks so this team really needs a big change in order to see the light once again. I'll post a new rmt maybe with a refreshed version of this team.

I mean I been playing this team on an alt so far at 1600 29 Wins 4 loses (1 of which being due to internet dying) and its holds up pretty well however yeah regen cores are a massive problem played one game where the guy was just switching pex + torn-t constnatly and couldln['t break it due to him having ttar. However with hydreigon i believe that dragonite is more beneficial due to the fact it is the teams best answer to teleport+future sight into shifu which i find a much larger threat whilst playing + no rocks can be annoying however that hasn['t been too much of an issue.

 

[WhiteQueen]

You can change DNite’s moves to DD/Dual Wingbeat/Roost/Heal Bell and replace Blissey’s Heal Bell with SR. This gives your team a wincon, SR, and doesn’t really change anything about the team.

 

[Smashburn]

How does this team deal with FS + breaker cores? Counterplay for the slowtwins is limited to Toxic or Zapdos, which has little momentum. I know CM Reuni was mentioned, but the more offensive sets are devastating. They turn everything into setup fodder and don't mind Quagsire, they almost always 2HKO with Psychic once rocks up.