SM OU Triple Regenerator Latios Balance

#1




Triple Regenerator M-Latios Balance

I've had this team for about 2? months when I was looking to build towards balance rather than Semi-Stall. The mindset was to have a hazard resistant fat balance team possessing strong passive healing thereby enabling turns to be spent towards advancing the game-state rather than constantly and consciously needing to manage recovery. This is a hybrid of the first Balance team I ever built whiled tutored under Double Switches (Tornadus -M-Latios Core) and an old Torn-Stall I made 3-4 months ago (shown below). Despite its usefulness throughout my Blunder Tour run, it was never construed under an ultra-serious mindset, and therefore I'm now looking to optimize its competitive weight.

Very Haxy Game vs LL https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-395714



Tornadus-Therian
@ Fightinium Z
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Focus Blast
- Taunt
- Defog


The EV spread is for out-speeding everything up to scarf Magnezone. Additonal Speed EVS nets no out-speeds except for speed tieing other Tornadus-T at max investment. As I was looking to have pseudo bulk on Tornadus I've opted to use this spread up to this point.

I know people are skeptical of Air-Slash, but I honestly believe it to be a great move for Torn, and on this team in particular, as damage consistency and flinch chances are more cohesive to the move-sets and needs of the rest of the team (more on that later).

Z-Focus blast is the lure set I chose for Tyranitar and to lesser extents Heatran and Ferrothorn. Tyranitar presents an enormous threat to the team structure -- therefore the opportunity to remove it immediately is welcomed. Z-Item Torn additionally supports the team through emergency burst damage and sponging knock-off spam from weak mons.


Taunt/Defog combo torn is amazing for hazard management and otherwise harassing opposing fat. It's annoying to defog spam vs ferrothorn, clef and Lando, especially if Torn is accruing passive damage alongside fighting off hazards. Taunt & Defog on the same set handles all mentioned issues and more.



Latios-Mega @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Psychic
- Draco Meteor


Mega Latios was chosen for its immediate offensive pressure paired alongside its typing & ability that supports balance builds overall. While his sister Latias is more commonly known as the CM sweeper of the pair, Latios-M's ability to setup faster and immediately wall-break shouldn't be taken for granted either. This Latios doesn't have EQ as I prefer to take advantage of scaring out Heatran as an opportunity to setup or Draco instead.



Clefable (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Cosmic Power
- Soft-Boiled
- Moonblast


Clef is the mid-late game sweeper of the team, its setup priority and timing dependant on the game-state and the opponent's team structure. It serves as the tertiary physical wall of the team when Tangrowth and Slowbro are overly pressured past the comforts of regenerator + active healing.




Slowbro (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake
- Thunder Wave
- Slack Off


Thunder-Wave is non negotiable on Slowbro, as without it, the team is much less effective overall and will struggle to execute its win-cons as efficiently. Twave Slowbro is the key to weary opposing fat-teams, as paralysis on top of knock-off (tang), air-slash (torn), taunt (torn and tran) and CM sweeping are the cohesive tools this team uses to mow down offense and opposing fat balance.

EQ is to super effectively damage ice-beam resistant physical attackers. It's other major use is for Heatran, which Slowbro naturally resists. Ice Beam is self explanatory, though with Zygarde 50% now in Ubers it may be prudent to choose a different move instead.

Slowbro scares out a lot of mons -- don't be shy to spam Twave on predicted switchins. Fat mons like to abuse Slowbro's passivity to do their thing (clef, reuniclus) - this is where Twave Slowbro can take them by surprise by crippling their active agency over the long term.

RH is to punish u-turn momentum or other contact based attacks.




Tangrowth (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off


Pretty self-explanatory special attack sponge. Knock-off should be used liberally especially on predicted switch-ins. Chansey is the priority mon to knock-off, as with its item removed, Clef can comfortably maul Chansey's HP when near maxed setup intervals.




Heatran (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 132 SpD / 128 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock


The complimentary special sponge pair to AV Tgrowth. I opted for the SpD trap set to harass and remove threats in the likes of Toxapex, Chansey and Clefable. The role compression provides a means to eliminate opposing defoggers as well.


Threat list:
Tyranitar: By far the biggest threat to the entire team
Hoopa-U: Same as above, but much worse actually lol.
M-Zam: Alakazam is a major nuisance to the team. Don't take for granted tho that setup Latios can take advantage and counter Mega-Zam
Greninja: protean-gren is an excellent balance breaker
Kyurem-B: no real reliable switchins or play here other than to Z Fight it
Specs Lele



Tornadus-Therian @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Focus Blast
- Taunt
- Defog

Latios-Mega @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Psychic
- Draco Meteor

Clefable (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Cosmic Power
- Soft-Boiled
- Moonblast

Slowbro (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake
- Thunder Wave
- Slack Off

Tangrowth (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off

Heatran (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 132 SpD / 128 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
 
Last edited:

Finchinator

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#2
You have a very interesting underlying concept behind your build, giving yourself an inherent ability to gain leverage in drawn out games thanks to stacking Regenerator Pokemon. However, I find your team to be inherently flawed given your current set-up and movesets.

Before I get into prospective changes, I want to identify what I find to be the biggest threats to this team in order to decide what changes that are made should be centered around covering. The following Pokemon seem quite problematic to your build:
  • Tapu Lele: Both Choice Specs and Calm Mind Z variants are ridiculously challenging for your team. Your only faster Pokemon are Mega Latios, which currently has a suboptimal moveset that cannot even 3HKO it, and Tornadus-Therian, which also has a suboptimal moveset that cannot even 2HKO it.
  • Magearna: The increasingly common Shift Gear + Calm Mind + Focus Blast + Z-Fleur Cannon Magearna seems like a real nuisance to play against if it gets a turn or two correct. You are running a bizarre combination of moves on Tangrowth, rendering it incapable of doing significant damage against Magearna, especially after a Calm Mind, so that leads to even more trouble as you could at least force a Z and try to time things or bait a Fleur if you had Earthquake to pressure it and 2HKO it after a couple rounds of Stealth Rock or really any prior chip.
  • Tornadus-Therian: While this is less of a consistent threat, if it is a Knock Off + Taunt variant, which is increasingly common, then you are going to be in for a long game where you are constantly on your toes. What happens is that it Knocks Heatran early and then you have nothing to outrun it because your current Tornadus-Therian is not max Speed for some reason. I am noticing a pattern here: your team lacks the sufficient dedicated defensive presences to cover the necessary faster offensive threats consistently, yet it lacks the consistent speed control measures to outrun and revenge kill them. This is a pretty consistent pitfall of all slower-paced balance teams such as this one. Regardless, pivoting back to the Tornadus-Therian issue, it is a long-term headache to you if it's packing an appropriate moveset, especially if it's SAtk invested and accurate.
  • Mega Alakazam: While it is slightly manageable with timely pivoting and Tangrowth, the fact that it can easily Trace Regenerator against half of your team while also 2HKOing everything besides Tangrowth makes it ridiculously threatening considering the fact that you really are going to struggle to kill it once it gets in safely and begins to Trace Regenerator. Your best bet is to trade most of Slowbro's health for a Thunder Wave, which will make it for more manageable, but even then it's a risky proposition that can get out of hand due to it still outrunning half of your team and not being threatening by your Heatran while not being 2HKO'd by your Air Slash Tornadus-Therian that it can now just Regenerate off.
  • Volcarona: Well, if it's HP Ground, then you pretty much lose the game if it does not miss a Fire Blast or two on Clefable assuming it's not Z-Fire. Not much you can do about this one unless the opponent times it poorly or you do not click Tangrowth all game, pretty much.
  • Mega Diancie: While you do have checks to this, especially if it is earlier in the game and you remain generally unpressured, the fact that it can comfortably set-up Stealth Rock and make quick work of your only form of removal does strike me as an issue in longer games. Perhaps a timely Z-Focus Blast can make quick work of it after some initial chip, sure. If that happens, then the game gets significantly easier. If not, then you're going to be playing with the premise of your team significantly compromised due to Stealth Rock's consistent presence combined with the long-term pressure of Mega Diancie in itself.
  • Kyurem-Black: If it's LO, then you're just going to be in for a bad time. If it's Z, then you should be able to handle it easily enough.
I'll stop here as beyond A- rank, most Pokemon are a bit more niche or at least not consistently seen. Things like Hoopa-Unbound are obviously annoying, too, as you outline in the OP, but at least it is used sporadically and once you figure out the set, you can figure out some line of semi-stable counterplay. Regardless of this, the above list is pretty numerous and concerning, in my opinion. I will thus provide two different ratings. The first will be a minimalist one, consisting of an assortment of quick fixes that can make your team at least stand a greater chance against the aforementioned threats. The second will be more of an overarching analysis as to if I feel this can be salvaged into a consistent team without defacing it or not; and if so, how exactly this can be done.

As for the former, the quick fixes would be as followed:
  • Making your Tornadus-Therian max Speed and giving it Hurricane over Air Slash. Your description of Air Slash strikes me as remarkably unpersuasive and you are not even mentioning the potential pros of the extra damage output of Hurricane. Just going through the list of things that I mentioned above, Hurricane is vital for extra damage output against Tapu Lele, Mega Alakazam, and even opposing Tornadus-Therian (especially if you are slower, as you currently are). This is not to mention that Air Slash flinches are rarely going to come into play given that your damage output is low and normal counterplay to Tornadus-Therian is quite sturdy and you lack Knock Off on your Tornadus-Therian, meaning they are also going to likely be getting recovery each turn to negate the already minimal damage output. As for the maxing out of the Speed, you described your current spread as having "pseudo bulk" and I quite honestly have no clue as to what that means, but seeing as your long-term Tornadus-Therian match-up is troublesome, I quite like the prospect of just going with maximum Speed here, even if it may seem "lazy" or unappealing to you.
  • Making Mega Latios Calm Mind + Earthquake + Psychic + Recover. Your current set really does not make sense given that Thunder Wave from Slowbro + Clefable covers Reuniclus if you play wisely as is and that's really the only big thing that Draco Meteor on Calm Mind Latios will be absolutely necessary for. Given your vulnerability to Shift Gear Magearna, long-term offensive Heatran (especially if it is packing Toxic seeing as your Tangrowth currently lacks Earthquake), and Tapu Lele, having Earthquake seems pretty much necessary to me. Mono-Psychic on the Special side may seem a bit weird with Calm Mind, but Earthquake is doing big, consistent damage to Tyranitar and Greninja while Psychic remains spammable vs the rest of the non-Steel metagame and Draco Meteor was not helping against those Pokemon anyway given their resistance (or Magearna's immunity) whereas Earthquake hit all of them not named Celesteela or Mega Scizor. If you absolutely feel the need for Draco Meteor, just drop Calm Mind. You really NEED Earthquake on this team.
  • Consider making Tangrowth Earthquake over Sludge Bomb or Hidden Power [Fire] if you elect to keep your Mega Latios set as it currently stands. You probably should consider it regardless as neither of those two moves are absolutely necessary, but I must admit that both do have nice situational utility and convenience even if you have other avenues of counterplay for those Pokemon that Sludge Bomb or HP Fire connect for 4x damage against (Tornadus-Therian and Mega Latios for Tapu Bulu, Heatran and Tornadus-Therian for Ferrothorn, and Heatran for Mega Scizor). Earthquake is just too important here for opposing Shift Gear Magearna and Heatran, I feel.
  • Fit Scald on your Slowbro. Really, it's one of the best moves in the game and a timely burn will do your team a lot of favors in the long-term. Ice Beam is nowhere near a necessity with Zygarde being banned and even beforehand you did have Tangrowth (although you lacked HP Ice, so I understand why you were packing it to an extent). Earthquake seems silly and the damage output is nowhere near worthwhile, especially with Scald to threaten Heatran, Mega Mawile, Tyranitar, etc. Consider going dual status, fitting another coverage move, or trying out some fun tech in the last slot beyond Scald + Thunder Wave + Slack off, in my opinion.
As for the latter, the overall feel on the team itself:
  • I think that teams like this are going to always be plagued with lapses in counterplay to noteworthy threats. A general rule of thumb when it comes yo Pokemon is that you need to either have defensive counterplay, being in the form of hard counters or multiple defensive checks, or offensive counterplay, being in the form of revenge killers generally, in order to match-up sufficiently against opposing offensive presences. Your team lacks any form of revenge killing whereas you also lack the defensive, stall-like backbone to cover everything defensively as this team is currently trying to fit-in as some form of pseudo balance.
  • Moreover, I feel that the concept of stacking Regeneators is a fundamentally sound and practically applicable one, but I think that you should abuse their long-lasting nature to combine them with a greater offensive backbone or take the aforementioned stall route and just ditch the offensive approach for a more dedicated bulkier approach.
  • The former would entail ditching the Clefable oriented win-path and focusing on integrating an offensive presence of your liking and then restructuring accordingly.
  • The latter would entail probably adding a Chansey, ditching at least Mega Latios and Tornadus-Therian, and working multiple methods of hazard removal on to your team (perhaps Mega Sableye, Zapdos, and/or Mew, for example). This would likely end up also only having two Regenerator users although perhaps you are up to the challenge of fitting three on stall, who knows.
  • At the end of the day, this is a cool concept, but I cannot help but feel the execution is flawed and that you can build off of this to have a more complete and consistent final structure.
 

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