Two Sinnoh Starters and only one of 'em is OU.

Makeshift Patriot

That's right, I'm using Torterra, and I'm not using him as a sweeper or basic supporter either. I'm using him for his potential as a lead. I knew two things as I started to construct this team: That I wanted to set up for a SDape sweep, and that I wanted to use Torterra as a lead, and this was the result.

Team at a Glance

Spr_4p_389.png
Spr_4p_392.png
Spr_4p_233.png
Spr_4p_212_m.png
Spr_4p_485.png
Spr_4p_479O.png

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Spr_4p_389.png

Torterra (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 134 HP/124 Spd/252 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Wood Hammer
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
- Earthquake

Wow, what can I say about this guy... Easily one of the best leads I have ever used. As I was looking through the Top Ten leads from May, I noticed a pattern - a good number of them are 1 or 2hkoed by this guy. As a result, I hand-crafted this lead to be able to take on as many leads as possible. The nature and EV spread probably look pretty weird, but believe me, they serve a purpose. 124 speed EVs allow me to outspeed standard 8 speed EV Metagross by one point, and 2hko with Earthquake. Max special defense and the given HP EVs allow me to set up Stealth Rocks on the standard Mixpert lead as they Ice Beam, and survive on average with 40%, and that's before leftovers. I then outspeed and OHKO with Wood Hammer, and take on average 40% damage from recoil (I'm pretty sure, I may have dome the math wrong) and survive due to leftovers. It should be noted that this scenario doesn't always happen, as both percents were averages. EQ and wood Hammer are for stab and coverage, SR is a necessity, and Roar is for scouting/Ninjask. And if someone has used a set like this before me, I apologize.
---

Spr_4p_392.png

Infernape (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Fire Punch
- Mach Punch
- Swords Dance

This is my late game sweeper, and a fine one at that. You may be thinking "Why no Stone Edge? You're just asking to be walled by Gyarados/Salamence!" And to that I say, thats what the rest of the team is for! And besides, I don't want my sweep to be interrupted by some random Dugtrio or Scarftran. The only other thing I would use Stone Edge for would be Zappy, but he will always 2hko it with Fire Punch anyway, while it cannot OHKO me before CC. Everything else is fairly standar (Hell, even Mach Punch is decently standard). CC for a strong stab, Fire Punch over FLare BLitz for survivability, et cetera.
---
Spr_4p_233.png

Porygon2 @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP/216 Def/40 SAtk
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Discharge
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Recover

SDape has three major counters: Gyarados, Salamence, and Latias. Obviously I would have serious trouble trying to counter all three with one Poke, so I centered in on Gyara and Mence. The first thing that came to my mind was this little guy, being the undeniable best Gyarados counter due to Trace, as well as being a solid check for Mence. Obviously I needed Ice Beam and an Electric move to due this reliably, and I chose Discharge for the paralysis, as well as to free up a move slot for Toxic to take on things such as Vappy and Refreshless Latias. Also serves as a check for Heatran, Jolteon and the like, which are obviously dangerous threats without a solid special wall.
---

Spr_4p_212_m.png

Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP/252 Atk/8 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Pursuit

Now that I had 2/3 of 'apes main counters out of the way, I needed to be able to take on Latias. Fortunately, Scizor does the job perfectly, due to it being literally trapped by Pursuit. Aside from this it can help revenge kill things like an Outraging Mence, which is especially important if its a MixMence, which can easily kill P2. Obviously this is a bog standard moveset, but hell, its bog standard for a reason. Bullet Punch for priority, U-Turn for scouting,Superpower for Heatran, and Pursuit for Latias/Blissey if I can predict the switch right.
---

Spr_4p_485.png

Heatran (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Explosion
- Dragon Pulse

Heatran is here for a few reasons. The first reason was as a counter to Scizor, who could basically manhandle my entire team prior to his entrance. The second reason was as a way to take on leads that Torterra can't take on, mainly absorbing Azelf's Fire Blasts and Explosion, as well as killing Bronzong. I opted for Dragon Pulse over Hp Ice because of Kingdra mainly, but also as a way to revenge weakened Latias's if Scizor is out commission. Explosion is for things like Starmie that this team cannot handle any other way.
---

Spr_4p_479O.png

Rotom-h @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/168 Def/88 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Will-o-wisp
- Overheat

I dunno, this guy seems out of place, no matter how helpful he's been in certain situations. Basically the only thing keeping me from replacing him is the fact that he can deal with Breloom after someone takes the Spore. If anyone has any reccommendations, don't hesitate to share.
---


And thats the team. I'm not going bother doing a threat list, but it should be noted that I have serious problems with Starmie and Crocune. Thank you for yor time!

​
 
Definitely take out rotom for something else, maybe a support pokemon, wish passing vaporeon seems like he could fit in nicely here since your team lacks any water coverage or any way of healing whatsoever other that porygon2's recover which is completely limited to him. If you dont like vappy, jolteon also seems to fit nicely, but id wait until one of your pokemon is fainted since he cant switch into ANYTHING. If you want something semi-bulky that can attack nicely, you might want to go with a pseudo-legendary dragon (thatd be 'mence or d'nite) or tyranitar, but those definitely wont help with starmie or suicune. Or you can always just go with a suicune/starmie counter from the suicune/starmie sets.

first reply on smogon ever!
 
If you think Rotom is out of place and as you mention on Nape description, the rest of your team is to counter things like salamence and gyaradous, then I would suggest to change your moveset to:

Rotom-h @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 SpA; 252 Speed
Timid nature
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Overheat
- Trick

This way you can come in on a DD from Gyaradous or Salamence and easily OHKO non-jolly Gyaradous (that I believe it outspeeds Timid Rotom after a DD) and do several damage to Salamence, you can also consider HP[ice] over Shadow Ball or Overheat (I would recommend over Shadow Ball because you already have more than one answear to Latias and I believe you won't be revenge killing anything for SE damage that you couldn't with the other moves exept other Rotom forms), this way you could also outspeed have a nice time with the standart 176 speed Adamant ScarfFlygon that if played correctly could kill about 3-4 members of your team with Outrage/EQ/FireBlast, and score a surprise KO.

Trick is there because if you opt for using this, it will be the 3rd choiced pokemon on your team and that could be bad for you, remember that this way, you could always have an answear to stall and mainly for Blissey, that is a VERY common switch-in to Rotom.
 
Quick reply for now, but you may want to consider just using a Yache Berry on Torterra and moving the SDef EV's to HP or Attack. It's more efficient.

Other than that, it's a fairly decent team as it is, and you have most major threats covered. I'm going to experiment with an optimized Anti-lead Torterra, but I fear that Scarfed Breloom can probably do it better.

This way you can come in on a DD from Gyaradous or Salamence and easily OHKO non-jolly Gyaradous (that I believe it outspeeds Timid Rotom after a DD) and do several damage to Salamence, you can also consider HP[ice] over Shadow Ball or Overheat (I would recommend over Shadow Ball because you already have more than one answear to Latias and I believe you won't be revenge killing anything for SE damage that you couldn't with the other moves exept other Rotom forms), this way you could also outspeed have a nice time with the standart 176 speed ScarfFlygon that if played correctly could kill about 3-4 members of your team with Outrage/EQ/FireBlast, and score a surprise KO.
Click to expand...

Well, Scarfed Flygon really lacks the attack power of it's other dragon buddies (except Kingdra), and is really quite easy to play around and beat anyways. Send Pory2 to the Earthquake (Trace Levitate), Scizor to the Outrage, and Heatran to the Fire move. Prediction is a counter.

Torterra (M) @ Occa/Yache/Babiri Berry
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 222 HP/252 Atk/36 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Seed Bomb
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge/Roar
- Stealth Rock
---

My first draft at Torterra. The Speed lets him beat min-speed neutral Swampert. The full attack EV's let him get over 98.3% on Swampert with Seed Bomb(Libelldra). The HP EV's ensure that Meteor Mash from Metagross will have a 99.3% of being a 3HKO barring an attack raise, but Meteor Mash can also miss. In return, Earthquake is an easy 2HKO, doing around 70%.

Occa Berry if Azelf/Heatran is a concern, and EQ will do 93.50% - 110.22% to Heatran. After the Occa, Fire Blast will do 58.29% - 68.65% from a Timid Heatran. Azelf's will do 38.86% - 45.85%.

Making an Anti-lead is tough. Torterra feels like a rough fit into that role, IMO.
 
mtr12 said:
Well, Scarfed Flygon really lacks the attack power of it's other dragon buddies (except Kingdra), and is really quite easy to play around and beat anyways. Send Pory2 to the Earthquake (Trace Levitate), Scizor to the Outrage, and Heatran to the Fire move. Prediction is a counter.
Click to expand...

Of course that if you miss predict or are overpredicted, you will end up being KOed (in this case, two of those you just mentioned are OHKOed if coming on the wrong move)

Heatran - OHKO with EQ
Scizor - OHKO with the fire move
P2 - 2HKO with Outrage and 2HKO with EQ if it didn't trace Levitate, and it needs to be a revenge kill, otherwise you will finish being 2HKO with Outrage I believe.
 
Ok here's the thing about Rotom, its not the set, its just him in general, he doesn't do anything that any of the other members cannot do better. So instead of scarfing him, I think I might change him to a LOJolt instead of a wish Jolt, simply because none of my members really need healing all that much.

As for Yache on Torterra, those EVs also allow me to survive things like Azelf Fireblasts if I really need too, so i think i'm going to stay with the current spread. Plus the healing leftovers provides is invaluable at times. I may consider it however.

EDIT: P2 can only be 2HKOed by max attack Flygon 5% of the time with Outrage and only with rocks, and I can kill with Ice beam so yeah flygon is not a threat at all.. (Obviously EQ doesn't 2HKO either)
 
kayjeedubs said:
Ok here's the thing about Rotom, its not the set, its just him in general, he doesn't do anything that any of the other members cannot do better. So instead of scarfing him, I think I might change him to a LOJolt instead of a wish Jolt, simply because none of my members really need healing all that much.

As for Yache on Torterra, those EVs also allow me to survive things like Azelf Fireblasts if I really need too, so i think i'm going to stay with the current spread. Plus the healing leftovers provides is invaluable at times. I may consider it however.
Click to expand...

Well, you could use an Occa to reduce fire damage. With the calcs and 222 HP EV's this means that he will take 75.65% - 89.12% (Libelldra) from a standard Mixpert's Ice Beam, guaranteeing survival and letting him get up Rocks and OHKO with Seed Bomb.
 
The problem with using seed bomb is that theres a chance I won't 2HKO Azelf (its like a 30% chance,but as moves like body slam have taught us, that 30% can happen at the worst of times.) The only reason this is relevant is that usually when facing Azelf I attack first in case of taunt.

I also just ran the calcs quick and Seed Bomb can never OHKO standard MixPert in a lead situation, which would force me to choose between rocks or killing Swampy.

So I think the set is at a happy medium in terms dealing with leads for right now. Thanks for the ideas.
 
I really insist you don't replace Rotom with Vappy or Jolteon, because you really need a good Fighting resist on your team as you have two Pokemon that are weak to it. A rule for most of my teams is that for each time a Pokemon is weak to a type, I have another Pokemon that resists (or can handle well) that type.

I suggest Gyarados. It gives you a Fighting resistance (backed up by Intimidate, as most Fighting attacks are physical), a RestTalk set can absorb Breloom Spores, or if not the RestTalker, the Offensive/Bulky variants can handle Breloom once another member has been Spored. Furthermore, Gyarados can scout for Sally/Latis are that are common switch ins to Gary, AND its resistances are absorbed by Torterra. Lastly, by the end of Gyarados' sweep, it will have dented a sufficient amount of Pokemon to facilitate Nape's sweep that much more.
 
I definitely want to try Gyara, my only concern is that it will further increase my Starmie weakness. I've got some stuff to test out, thats for sure. Thanks for the tips.
 
well if you hate vappy/jolteon, but still want the evil fighting resist, i have an interesting option:

Dusknoir. Dusknoir with thunderpunch gets rid of your starmie problem AND blocks its rapid spin while still keeping that fighting and normal immunity.

good luck...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top