Type: Null, Silvally Discussion

Pikachu315111 said:
Type: Null will most certainly be banned from Little Cup but that's alright, as a pre-evolution it still gets some benefits such as Eviolite making it a pretty mighty wall (on top of Battle Armor preventing Crit hax).
Click to expand...
Type: Null won't even be able to entertain a quickban. The earliest you can get one is level 40, and it can't breed, which makes it illegal for Little Cup since they play with Level 5 Pokemon.
 
mew-2Chainz said:
I really don't know how the Aether corporation thought this thing was powerful enough to take on the Ultra Beasts but OK.
Click to expand...
Poison type Multi-Attack to murder Nihilego. Flying for Buzzwole and Pheromosa. Ground for Xerkitree. Fire for Kartana and Celesteela. Fairy for Guzzlord. Alternately, it could use Air Slash for Buzzwole and Flamethrower for Kartana since they have high physical bulk and paper-thin special bulk.

Its entire gimmick, both lore-wise and gameplay-wise, is that it can change types quickly as needed, yes? If we placed it in a story scenario where it faced off against each UB one-on-one and the trainer was given the opportunity to switch Memories in-between, it could theoretically beat all of them.
 
A lot of people have given some pretty interesting movesets for Silvally, but I haven't seen any yet for Type:Null. This is the best one I've come up with, though probably not more than UU material:

Silvally @ Eviolite
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Return/Double-Edge
- Shadow Claw
- U-Turn

This set gets very good neutral coverage, with Bisharp and Tyranitar being the only pokemon capable of resisting both attack moves. With U-Turn Type:Null gets perfect neutral coverage as well as the ability to get a safe switch-in for another pokemon thanks to its low speed, and thanks to its bulk it will likely be able to tank a hit before U-Turning.

The biggest weakness I see is the lack of recovery moves or Leftovers, which may mandate using it along with a Wish user.

I'm thinking the Attack EVs could also be invested into Defense and Special Defense for extra bulk, though I'm unsure how that would be done best. Doing so would also probably mean having a more defensive nature, too.

So, what do you think? What tweaks would be best here?
 
DuplexBeGreat said:
Poison type Multi-Attack to murder Nihilego. Flying for Buzzwole and Pheromosa. Ground for Xerkitree. Fire for Kartana and Celesteela. Fairy for Guzzlord. Alternately, it could use Air Slash for Buzzwole and Flamethrower for Kartana since they have high physical bulk and paper-thin special bulk.

Its entire gimmick, both lore-wise and gameplay-wise, is that it can change types quickly as needed, yes? If we placed it in a story scenario where it faced off against each UB one-on-one and the trainer was given the opportunity to switch Memories in-between, it could theoretically beat all of them.
Click to expand...
Ummmm, You might want to go Ground instead (Nihilego is Poison/Rock).

I think Silvally will have its niche. We've never had a Pokemon with its Speed, bulk, and access to Parting Shot, U-Turn, and STAB Explosion. Combine that with its position as a sort of back alley Arceus, and you have yourself a Mon that actually has some very interesting possibilities.
 
I don't see Eviolite Null being viable at all.

59 base speed is pretty damn pitiful. If I want a Normal-type Eviolite tank, I'd just use Porygon2.
 
Swagodile said:
I don't see Eviolite Null being viable at all.

59 base speed is pretty damn pitiful. If I want a Normal-type Eviolite tank, I'd just use Porygon2.
Click to expand...
P2 is packing Recover, which is big boon for it, and higher Sp. Atk, but other than that, Type: Null is kind of better. Battle Armor, Slow-Turn, SD for potential set-up, Roar for para-shuffling, more bulk (95/95/95 over P2's 85/90/95). Honestly, EvioNull (or Type: Lite, perhaps?) will have its niche in the meta as a crazy bulky and decently powerful Pivot, not just a Tank like P2.
 
Hytheter said:
Porygon2 is only marginally faster though. As in, a single point.
Click to expand...

I don't think the difference in speed was his point. Porygon2 is just outright better because of reliable recovery.


Also, Silvally will be tiered differently depending on type just like Arceus, right?
 
Probably not going to be OU, but I really think that this set has a lot of potential:

Silvally @ Electric Memory
Ability: RKS System
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- Ice Fang
- Flame Charge/Fire Fang

I chose Adamant over Jolly because you can still naturally outspeed any Gyarados, Dragonite or Mamoswine, and also outspeed at +1 Spe pretty much the whole metagame, except Mega Alakazam and Aerodactyl (plus many scarfers, of course).
The Electric Memory gives him a very unique ability: it makes Silvally being one of the only Swords Dancer that does not care about T-Wave and that can spam a good physical Electric type move. (Thunder Punch or Wild Charge... meh)
This, combined with a very solid bulk, enables him to set up on many Walls, which is absolutely huge imho (Ferrothorn, Zapdos, Skarmory, Mega Scizor, Chansey, Klefki, or even Clefable if the Unaware nerf reveals to be true !).

+2 252+ Atk Silvally Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 296-350 (88.6 - 104.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Silvally Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 356-420 (90.3 - 106.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Silvally Ice Fang vs. 240 HP / 176+ Def Garchomp: 400-472 (95.9 - 113.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Silvally Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 292-348 (76.4 - 91%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Silvally Flame Charge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Scizor: 292-344 (103.9 - 122.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Silvally Flame Charge vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 260-308 (73.8 - 87.5%)

Flame Charge might seem to be a bit gimmick, but as the only other reliable option is Fire Fang, it can really come handy in some situations.
Ex: You SD on an incoming Serperior. Next turn, Serperior attacks, you can take any hit and go for a +2 Fire Fang. However, if Serperior is at full life, it won't be OHKOed. BUT (!) if you use Flame Charge instead, you get the opportunity to outspeed it next turn and kill it, which will let your opponent facing a +2 Atk +1 Spe monster that can't be Prankster T-Waved and that don't fear any Priority move in particular.

Of course, this guy's going to get hard walled by bulky Ground/Water Mons, Hippo and Mega Venusaur, but still, this Silvally set has a lot of potential in OU in my opinion.
 
Last edited:
As far as sword dancers go, I am somewhat interested by Fairy and Ghost type. I think they benefit the most from having a great physical attack, and grant other utility that make up for his absolutely atrocious coverage (not a single fighting type move? not a single ground type move? get outta here....), and fairy actually has usable coverage with Fire Fang, and still has room for Parting Shot if it wishes. The Electric type has a decent set as well with Multi-Attack and Ice Fang.

I think this mon has its best opportunity to succeed as a special attacker, apart from aforementioned Fairy and Electric type sets. Dragon type Silvally is bulky enough to find switch-in opportunities, and can run Draco Meteor +Parting Shot + Flamethrower + Surf, which offers amazing coverage and can just about get past Heatran and has a chance to get through Hippowdon (assuming modest silvally).. that being said, its non-STAB moves are weak thanks to no damage boosting item. A special set feels a lot better using a modest nature because you aren't aiming to sweep, opposed to a physical swords dance set which I assume would run jolly. That makes your coverage moves hit a little harder, which is really needed.

Other Silvallys all have Boltbeam + Parting Shot to work alongside their STAB, which imo sounds a lot better than stressing to try and find a useful coverage move on the physical side with higher than 75 BP.. On the special side I can see Ghost, Steel, Electric, Water, and Fire type Silvallys all having viability in varying tiers (oh silvally why couldnt you get any useful moves like nasty plot or recover..)
 
Last edited:
Zennistrad said:
A lot of people have given some pretty interesting movesets for Silvally, but I haven't seen any yet for Type:Null. This is the best one I've come up with, though probably not more than UU material:

Silvally @ Eviolite
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Return/Double-Edge
- Shadow Claw
- U-Turn

This set gets very good neutral coverage, with Bisharp and Tyranitar being the only pokemon capable of resisting both attack moves. With U-Turn Type:Null gets perfect neutral coverage as well as the ability to get a safe switch-in for another pokemon thanks to its low speed, and thanks to its bulk it will likely be able to tank a hit before U-Turning.

The biggest weakness I see is the lack of recovery moves or Leftovers, which may mandate using it along with a Wish user.

I'm thinking the Attack EVs could also be invested into Defense and Special Defense for extra bulk, though I'm unsure how that would be done best. Doing so would also probably mean having a more defensive nature, too.

So, what do you think? What tweaks would be best here?
Click to expand...

I'd still use Porygon2; which has Recover
 
Pipotchi said:
As far as sword dancers go, I am somewhat interested by Fairy and Ghost type. I think they benefit the most from having a great physical attack, and grant other utility that make up for his absolutely atrocious coverage (not a single fighting type move? not a single ground type move? get outta here....), and fairy actually has usable coverage with Fire Fang, and still has room for Parting Shot if it wishes. The Electric type has a decent set as well with Multi-Attack and Ice Fang.

I think this mon has its best opportunity to succeed as a special attacker, apart from aforementioned Fairy and Electric type sets. Dragon type Silvally is bulky enough to find switch-in opportunities, and can run Draco Meteor +Parting Shot + Flamethrower + Surf, which offers amazing coverage and can just about get past Heatran and has a chance to get through Hippowdon (assuming modest silvally).. that being said, its non-STAB moves are weak thanks to no damage boosting item. A special set feels a lot better using a modest nature because you aren't aiming to sweep, opposed to a physical swords dance set which I assume would run jolly. That makes your coverage moves hit a little harder, which is really needed.

Other Silvallys all have Boltbeam + Parting Shot to work alongside their STAB, which imo sounds a lot better than stressing to try and find a useful coverage move on the physical side with higher than 75 BP.. On the special side I can see Ghost, Steel, Electric, Water, and Fire type Silvallys all having viability in varying tiers (oh silvally why couldnt you get any useful moves like nasty plot or recover..)
Click to expand...
Pray for good move tutors tbh.....
 
Swagodile said:
I don't see Eviolite Null being viable at all.

59 base speed is pretty damn pitiful. If I want a Normal-type Eviolite tank, I'd just use Porygon2.
Click to expand...

I think it's the lack of recovery that hinders Type:Null more than the speed. Porygon2 has only one more base Speed point, as well as inferior Defense and HP.
 
Pikachu315111 said:
I was kind of expecting a bit more in stats, or at least 600 BST.

Type: Null will most certainly be banned from Little Cup but that's alright, as a pre-evolution it still gets some benefits such as Eviolite making it a pretty mighty wall (on top of Battle Armor preventing Crit hax).
It even has some utilities such as Scary Face, Metal Sound, Heal Block, Toxic, Protect, Thunder Wave, U-turn, and Substitute. But let's not ignore those good offense stats. And being a chimera of sorts it learns plenty of moves. Some STAB options (mainly Tri Attack and Double-Edge/Return), Pursuit/Punishment/Payback, Air Slash/Aerial Ace, X-Scissor, Iron Head, Dragon Claw, Shadow Claw, and Rock Slide.
Send it out to wall, dish out some damage, and when its low on HP either U-turn or let it faint. That is what it's like to be considered nothing.

So onto the main show: Silvally... and I was expecting more. Alright, its faster, but none of its stats are above that benchmark 100 making it feel like it falls short (which make me wonder if this is due to being used as a boss in the game). And thoguh we joke it's "Arceus Lite", it doesn't get some key moves to really run any sets Arceus can.
A physical or mixed set will probably rely Multi-Attack most of the time as its STAB so that's covered. It also adds elemental fangs (including Poison Fang), Crunch, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Shadow Ball, Flamethrower, Steel Wing (How? From its wing-like horn?), Flash Cannon, and Surf. You'll notice they actually went out of their way for it to not learn the high powered moved like Blizzard, Thunder, Fire Blast, Solar Beam, Earthquake, or Stone Edge; though it does get Draco Meteor but that's more from that being accessible to any Dragon-type. It also a got few more utilities like Parting Shot and Explosion.
With under 100 Speed and no Eviolite boost, Silvally kind of feels it lost more then gained. It's not bad, it has nice bulk and offensive power and with a Scarf can probably fix one of its hold backs, but that would mean you lose its type changing gimmick. It kind of feels like they did want to make a mini-Arceus but were afraid of making it "too" good.

Hm, do you think maybe Arceus could get Multi-Attack? I think it would like it.
Click to expand...


This might sound odd, but what if you had Silvally learn Draco Meteor, but then changed its type? It should keep Draco Meteor, IIRC Arceus did when it used this trick. It might produce some interesting results.
 
Razor Wind...

I wonder if that move has been buffed yet. I get that its a upped critical hit move with spread, but 80 is still too weak for a charging attack. Also, why isn't this a Flying attack yet? Its almost been 7 gens now, and Gust was fixed in Gen 2. Oh well, I suppose I shouldn't complain. At least Type:Null and Silvally will be getting STAB for it. *rolls eyes* Who am I kidding. Skull Bash would have been better than this.

I agree that Silvally, at least one without a Memory, is probably best run with Explosion. Of course I would recommend Screech - Explosion, but Silvally gets Metal Sound instead.

Man, I really dig this mon but the move pool is just painful to look at sometimes.
 
Dragon Silvally looks promising. Probably not OU material but it has good coverage and access to Parting Shot to distinguish it from other special attacking dragons.

Silvally @ Dragon Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt
- Parting Shot / Ice Beam

Only Mega Altaria resists Dragon + Fire + Electric coverage. Ice Beam gives it perfect neutral coverage. Parting Shot is a very useful move that only Silvally, Alolan Persian, and Pangoro have access to.
 
Silvally @ Choice Scarf
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Parting Shot
- Explosion
- Double-Edge
- Crunch / U-turn

After some thought I think a set like this might be Silvally's best chance at reaching OU viability; by focusing on its two main niches (fastest Parting Shot + STAB Explosion).

Essentially this set is all about controlling momentum. Offensive teams would really appreciate the support that Parting Shot provides, especially considering that they have a tendency to be rather frail and so the Atk/Sp. Atk drops will help them shuffle around more safely. Parting Shot has a major advantage over U-turn in that its main effect is practically a win-win no matter what happens, although such is especially the case if the opponent switches out. Scarfed Explosion is a nice emergency option with the added bonus of potentially being able to weaken or take out something bulky which may otherwise be a problem for your team. Quite a few mind games could happen over whether or not you will use Parting Shot or Explosion - but both will gain you the upper hand when it comes to momentum. Double-Edge is for when you need to do some damage but also stay alive. Crunch is a logical 4th move as otherwise Silvally can't hurt Ghosts at all; however U-turn is also a decent option because it means Silvally can gain momentum without needing to worry about pokemon with Magic Bounce.

SD + Explosion is another potentially good option if you need a one-time nuke to take out a wall, but be careful of Protect/Ghost switch-ins.
 
Not that it's stellar coverage or anything, but couldn't Silvally theoretically have Draco Meteor as any type? Unless it forgets it if the attached Dragon Memory changes, just teach it Draco in Dragon form and switch out Memories from there. Could lead to interesting coverage options or at least a heavy hit on something not expecting Draco.
 
Seth Vilo said:
Not that it's stellar coverage or anything, but couldn't Silvally theoretically have Draco Meteor as any type? Unless it forgets it if the attached Dragon Memory changes, just teach it Draco in Dragon form and switch out Memories from there. Could lead to interesting coverage options or at least a heavy hit on something not expecting Draco.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you almost certainly can do this. It's been an option on Arceus for a long time.
 
I think a resttalk set might be good, as it has good bulk and you could pick whatever type you want it to be, so you can pick a type with no immunities and such. I just wish it got either calm mind or bulk up to help its defenses too
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top