Metagame Ubers Metagame and Set Discussion v1 - Uncharted Territory

I've had decent low ladder success with this team: https://pokepast.es/b6fcb12481673da9

Pretty brainless HO. Doesn't like hazards, but can often put enough offensive pressure on to not be too worried. Tera types more focused on maximising offensive pressure while still maintaining some utility -- I've found that avoiding getting KOed and boosting your offensive presence is often better than making yourself flatly immune but giving yourself a Tera type that isn't useful past that specific turn. Also not super sold on Mystical Fire for Flutter Mane. Expert Belt on Koraidon surprisingly puts in work sometimes, but is mostly there because Koraidon doesn't like either being choice locked or taking constant recoil.

The team is definitely not optimised (Flip Turn on Iron Bundle can probably get nixed for Chilling Water), but I've managed to pull through quite a few unfavourable matchups. Chi-Yu has surprisingly really pulled its weight, not least because it can check Flutter Mane semi-reliably while absolutely melting through most defensive mons in the meta.
 

Ropalme1914

Ace Poker Player
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Social Media Contributor Alumnus
Moderator

Flutter Mane @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fairy / Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
- Taunt
I've been playing with this a lot in the last few days and I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned before despite how many times SubCM has appeared here. Taunt is a massive tool for offensive teams to avoid Defog taking out screens and hazards and also prevent screens against opposing HOs, but what this set shines the most at doing is destroying bulkier builds that have risen. Nullifying recovery and status while setting up makes Flutter Mane 6-0 multiple builds, as it can easily bypass Skeledirge, Corviknight, Toxapex, Ting-Lu, and even Sp. Def Clodsire will need to be constantly healthy unless it want to risk a 50/50 (and spamming Recover is risky due to the possible drop on top of Tera Ghost possibly doing even more damage). As a bonus, it's also faster than Scarf Dugtrio due to Energy Booster and can't be trapped by it regardless. Some replays with it in action:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubers-1715911808-bj7ww29195siibo47e4stm1n3x6aoalpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubers-1715709345-0gkxcaaf5ickfmdgmj3r9th908hgqfqpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubers-1714883792-aw06ji412mb2c9jdp5wp6ocv77bwn34pw
 
Last edited:
doubt. anything that ustaad uses is bound to be good it easily sets up by switches it cause and corv is fodder too i dont think there are many counters to it except like great tusk who is also tasked with koraidon mostly specs is good too and at 1 dd he does really kill almost all guys but it is okay if you dont think it is good.just my opinion
 
y is nobody talking about dragapult easily one of the best cleaners
It needs terra hard, and never pass fire croc even ting lu with physical set. On the other hand, special set is weak even with specs, ting lu again is too big for it to pass, while the draco reliance hold back its consitency, just like miraidon weakness right now.

The role of this mon is baiscally a tera sweeper (which cant break things) or a speedy revenge killer against offense (which iron bundle do better most of the time because of how offensive teams are relying on ground type to pivot, and it is faster in terrain)

Random Tera sweeper can appears everywhere but pult is just a faster one among them which does not generate much firepower with only a tiny defensive utility, and most importantly the tera dependence.
 
How is everyone feeling about Terastalizing? It seems OU may ban it in the coming weeks but I haven't found it too overpowered here.

Best use so far for me has been defensively on things like Miraidon to avoid super effective dragon and fairy type moves
 

Garrett

Party rockers in the house tonight
is a Pre-Contributor
How is everyone feeling about Terastalizing? It seems OU may ban it in the coming weeks but I haven't found it too overpowered here.

Best use so far for me has been defensively on things like Miraidon to avoid super effective dragon and fairy type moves
It significantly has warped offensive counterplay in my eyes. In offense vs. offense matchups the game is influenced via seemingly-random decisions to Tera (sure only a few types are viable on each mon, but the different types usually need to be played differently and we’re usually talking about an interaction with a setup sweeper where every turn is important) to potentially remove the opponent’s best counterplay to a mon. Ditto interactions are especially funny because of this and currently fat playstyles are rewarded when the opposing threat needs to be generally walled and its next type is uncertain. Then again, this isn’t exhaustive and people have fat builds in mind when they pick Tera types. It’s messy and unclear.

I personally wish down the road Tera is restricted to just the original types of a mon because I think that’s a fair balance that doesn’t throw out the mechanic entirely.
 
How is everyone feeling about Terastalizing? It seems OU may ban it in the coming weeks but I haven't found it too overpowered here.

Best use so far for me has been defensively on things like Miraidon to avoid super effective dragon and fairy type moves
My experience of it so far has heavily been it being used to decide matchups that would otherwise be decided by speed ties, which I can't say sounds a whole lot more interesting. When Home hits, I'll probably feel differently.
 
I'm kind of on the fence about tera. Nowhere near as dumb as Dynamax, but it's way better than Megas or Z moves ever were as a concept (with the closest examples that somewhat "resemble" tera as a potential random type swap being Mega Mewtwo X and Ultra Necrozma). I'd like to still have time with it, though, hopefully more than OU did with Dynamax last gen. It's on the cusp of being too good, but at the same time, it doesn't feel unmanageable at least imo. I kind of get a sense of what plans to Tera based on my matchup vs the enemy team I'm up against. Plus, I feel the absolute best Tera users and type combos will become the standard at some point and it'll be easier to form game plans around them. Only time will tell tbh, I'd just like to see how it plays out.
 
I figure I could make a post since I've had some more time to play around with some mons. I'll go over a couple I've played with more than others, as well as some thoughts on them. This will be slightly less effort than normal because I haven't messed with that many toys of note.


Dondozo @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Liquidation / Wave Crash
- Body Press / Earthquake
- Curse
- Protect

Sleeper pick, it's actually very effective as a tank taking like, 30% from Koraidon CC and handles others like great tusk, iron treads and the like well. Unaware is nice and it's capable of dishing out decent damage. It set up opportunities aren't limited and overall just solid. Sleeper pick and i think we will see more of him to come.


Gyarados @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Def / 20 Spe
Impish Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Thunder Wave
- Dragon Tail

I've mentioned this one on discord already, but say hello to the Koraidon counter. Switches into nearly every shot it has over the course of the game, and the only thing really stopping it would be sub sets, which are uncommon to say the least. Corviknight aside, it's actually fairly annoying to switch into between para spreading and still hitting acceptably hard for a wall without investment. It's niche and you don't always need it over say, Toxapex, but sometimes it's combination of traits makes it fit very nicely on teams, and whenever a VR for the tier drops, it should land on it in some capacity. Try it out, it's solid.


Espathra @ Leftovers
Ability: Speed Boost
Tera Type: Fighting / Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Tera Blast / Dazzling Gleam
- Calm Mind
- Substitute

This Pokémon is nutty as hell. Speed boost cm stored power is a dream set and while it's stats are below par, it's good enough at snowballing to land a mention in Pokémon worth using in SV Ubers. Not much I can say about it that isn't self explanatory.

I'll say my opinions on Tera here as well, but I'll say right now I don't think this, or any metagame will truly flourish into a good tier until it is gone. Playing the game itself feels like a coinflip of when you will simply decide to counter something on a whim to completely change the course of them, and predicting when your opponent will do so is a constant backend worry that isn't comparable to any other mechanic we've had. Dynamax was fully well and truly broken beyond belief, but it was broken in a different way that it enabled unparalleled offense and snowballing that broke every sweeper with a flying move. Tera is less broken for sure, but it's broken in that it is a click that simply decides when you cheat past a pokemon that, by all means, you should have no business cheating past. Obvious examples of this is stuff like Dondozo becoming pure ground and hitting miraidon with a now STAB EQ or blanking a specs electric move for a critical amount of damage. Other examples like Koraidon becoming pure fire to blank Chien-Pao ice shard, turning it from proper offensive counterplay to something more likely to fail than not at this point, which is silly to say the least. Originally i was more worried with the offensive prowess you gain by doubling down on your current type, which is also silly in its own right, but I've come to realize that it's actually the shifting of counterplay on a dime that breaks the mechanic. Of course, Home coming not too far from now, march 2023 to be specific; is something to also mention. And somehow I think my prior fears will be confirmed once a certain horse returns and decided to steal everybody's lunch money for free.

As for any other tiering decisions, I'm happy to say that honestly none of them are needed in my opinion. Gothitelle remains off the radar without Pokémon like Zacian, which gave you 2 checks in the whole damn franchise to pick from and are bait for it, this tends to happen. Other things like Moody, Shed tail, and apparently some people think Miraidon is an AG candidate are ya'll fr? They are fine, and honestly nothing else warrants anything past discussion.
 
As for any other tiering decisions, I'm happy to say that honestly none of them are needed in my opinion. Gothitelle remains off the radar without Pokémon like Zacian, which gave you 2 checks in the whole damn franchise to pick from and are bait for it, this tends to happen. Other things like Moody, Shed tail, and apparently some people think Miraidon is an AG candidate are ya'll fr? They are fine, and honestly nothing else warrants anything past discussion.
People think Moody is AG? It's solid, but I find I can usually work around it.
 
1669554195481.png

Dragapult @ Spell Tag
Ability: Infiltrator
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 56 HP / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunder Wave
Unique set in of itself that actually messes with a lot of mons. Dragapult + Iron Treads is great bulky offensive duo for messing with Koraidon and Miraidon. Will-O-Wisp or T-Wave comes in clutch for weakening Chien Pao, Koraidon (just in case of tera that resists dragon move, I've been seeing tera fairy or steel from time to time), Kingambit, the Donphan's Paradox evos, and Cyclizar (if its boots and not scarf). Also, if you get t-spikes up with Glammora or Pex then Tera Hex + Spell Tag will rip apart teams very fast.


1669554216732.png

Hawlucha @ Electric Seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 92 Def / 148 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance / Bulk Up
- Close Combat / Drain Punch
- Acrobatics
- Thunder Punch (tera fighting allows the boost which is nice for pex and a weakened dondozo) / Stone Edge

Very underrated mon that goes under the radar. Pairs very well with Miraidon (especially if this mon is AV or boots) thanks to U-Turn and the fact that it lures in Blissey, Chansey, and Iron Treads. Really solid behind screens too. Capable of setting up on quite a few mons in the meta and can out speed a lot of booster energy mons like Flutter Mane or Iron Bundle. Ditto has been rising in usage to counter sweep HO teams and ditto doesn't copy unburden boost so, easy acrobatics OHKO. Lucha is very good at abusing the meta.
 
Miraidon @ Assualt Vest
Tera Type: Electric/Fairy
Ability: Hardon Engine
EVs: 252 SpA 4 SpD 252 Spe
Modest Nature
-Electro Drift
-Dazzling Gleam
-Flash Cannon
-Power Gem/ Overheat/ Volt Switch

This Miraidon should be moved to AG because of how OP it is. It normally runs Tera Electric because of the damage output and can run Fairy if you don't have any ground counters. Dazzling Gleam is great coverage and counters Koridon well. Electro Drift with the electric terrain set up is a delete button for almost everything. Flash Cannon is a great counter for fairies and it a neutral hit for most switch ins. Power Gem is extra coverage, Overheat is good for hitting bulky Steel Types that would normally counter, and volt switch is a common pivot move.

If you add an Iron Fist w/ punching glove and all the punching move it adds great coverage for ground and steel types, allowing you to run volt switch more easily.
 
You’re Alll Sleeping on My Boy pelipper and it is honestly Disrespectful…
It checks

the koraidon, grounds, etc etc while enabling the broken CB palafin and also uturn Thunder moraidon to get ur broken PHYSICAL waters in against grounds and specially defensive wastes of space. (Delibird is ok but not the best rain abuser. Azumarill is bette than basculin CB aswell)

alsoCM MORai is quite mid. AV, scarf, spec, uturn agility are all good…uturn over volt to gainmimentum againdt grounds, enable dug traps, etc.

chein Pao is quite nice. Ammongus also underrated…

flutter mane is also overrated… 3 atks taunt or 4 atks LO are best
 
I figure I could make a post since I've had some more time to play around with some mons. I'll go over a couple I've played with more than others, as well as some thoughts on them. This will be slightly less effort than normal because I haven't messed with that many toys of note.


Dondozo @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Liquidation / Wave Crash
- Body Press / Earthquake
- Curse
- Protect

Sleeper pick, it's actually very effective as a tank taking like, 30% from Koraidon CC and handles others like great tusk, iron treads and the like well. Unaware is nice and it's capable of dishing out decent damage. It set up opportunities aren't limited and overall just solid. Sleeper pick and i think we will see more of him to come.


Gyarados @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Def / 20 Spe
Impish Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Thunder Wave
- Dragon Tail

I've mentioned this one on discord already, but say hello to the Koraidon counter. Switches into nearly every shot it has over the course of the game, and the only thing really stopping it would be sub sets, which are uncommon to say the least. Corviknight aside, it's actually fairly annoying to switch into between para spreading and still hitting acceptably hard for a wall without investment. It's niche and you don't always need it over say, Toxapex, but sometimes it's combination of traits makes it fit very nicely on teams, and whenever a VR for the tier drops, it should land on it in some capacity. Try it out, it's solid.

[\quote]
This is literally just a worse peliper
This is literally just a worse peliper
 
We all know how the insane power of Box Legends dominating the SV ubers meta, while the speed tier is also dominated by few mons including the box legends. Things like Recover nerf, Gholdengo, wallbreaker like Great Tusk, Chien Pao and all else just make stall looks stupid in the first day of the SV ubers, let alone teralization.

It seems from day one that stall is unviable, but surprisingly some stall actually dominates the ladder in the first few days as people is still figuring out the attacking combo, and recently some stalls also thrive quite well with one of my friend making astonishing 41-2 in the ladder.

Stall seems so powerful , until that day when annihilape show its fury and rage fisting every stall team.

Annihilape does not seem to be an uber relevant mon in the first impression. To start with, a nearly no resistantce typing combination is bad even with its good bulk with 110/80/90, as we all know how high the netural damage are right now in the SV ubers, let alone Flutter Mane seems killing it ten thousand times with its stab. On the other hand, unlike the former Ghost-fighting, Annihilape is slow, and its atk base is just a decent 115, while its only boosting move is Bulk up. It just doesn't seem attractive at all although I know it is stall breaking as F, I didn't see any viability of it in the current meta.

Thanks to Separation video introducing it, and while I was suffering in the ladder, I asked Separation for a standard Annihilape set in OU and randomly snap it into one of my offense team, and it just starts shining.

Annihilape @ Leftovers
Ability: Defiant
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 240 SpD / 20 Spe
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Rage Fist
- Drain Punch
- Taunt

Miraidon Specs Draco? 80% and one drain punch pulls annihilape out of 2HKO range.
Flutter Mane? not even close to kill, and rage fist just 0HKO it all the time.
Iron Bundle? doing at max 35 without specs LOL
Specs Chi YU? TANK and Drain punched :)
Chien Pao? do barely 55% and get 0HKO by drain punch :)

You name it. It just TANKS ALL.

Besides tanking, its signature move Rage Fist gets 50 BP boost everytime when it get hit by a damaging move, cap at 300 (or 350 i am not sure) BP. This means stalls can't spam attacking move because in stalls the attacking moves are so weak Annihilape just take it all day and has its rage fist count boosted up to full power where the unaware trios are just papers in front of that insane BP.

On the other hand, it only needs 2 hits to become a stab 150 bp move which already hits very hard against offense, let alone the ability of it to take hit, and ofc, the Teralization, providing it some useful resistance/immune in this meta, for instance, Fairy for fighting/Dark resist + Dragon immune or ground type for Electric immune.

It is such a great late game sweeper/ Stall breaker as a whole, especially its ability of shutting down stall is just insane. It nearly singlehandedly denied a play style, and with Annihilape existing, you can only play semi-stall, which also has tough time VS specs Miraidon, let alone Annihilape. All those mon that theortically tank box legends and flutter mane are just a bait for annihilape. Dachsbun, Scream tail and Even Ting Lu are good examples that how a passive mon will suffer against annihilape, to name a few.

And Ofc Annihilape is not perfect and the way to counter this mon is actually not hard. Just don't play stall or avoid using passive mon and Annihilape is nothing more than a sp-def tank. Hazards hurts especially Toxic Spikes, status limiting its output and longevitity, and powerful attack such as Great Tusk headlong rush and Flare blitz from koraidon also threatening annihilape and its teammate.


A few last words.

Annihilape is a weird mon. It obviously does not have the ability of two box legends and flutter mane to be generally threatening all the time, but its ability to dominate stalls and passive mons is just beyond the sky. I am not sure is that healthy to the tier with one mon denying a playstyle completely, and I am not going to comment on this as well.

I believe stall in pre-home ubers is definitely a much less viable playstyle if there is no signficant changes in the meta.

Thank you for reading.

Last Edit: I dont know how it is still OU
1669818382128.png
1669818441098.png
_-2145049194_Screenshot_20221130-152758~2_1669793.jpg
 
Last edited:
Slither Wing @ Choice Band
Ability: Protosynthesis
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Close Combat

neat breaker… priority OHKOs most things under sun. Easy to get in vs grounds… decent revenge killer, can keep momentum w uturn. Running a bit of bulk let’s u avoid 2hkos from iron bundle, ohkos from morai…

in sun:

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Miraidon: 324-382 (95 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Bundle: 289-341 (114.2 - 134.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Slither Wing Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 300-355 (75 - 88.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Slither Wing Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 257-304 (84.5 - 100%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Slither Wing Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Clodsire: 325-383 (70 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

And then with bug Tera, u start getting some absurd calcs like this:

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flutter Mane: 174-205 (69.3 - 81.6%) (4x resist)

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Moth: 162-192 (53.8 - 63.7%) (4x resist)

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Koraidon: 191-226 (56 - 66.2%)


priority is deceptively good in this meta, as are ways to abuse grounds… thismon does both quite well, and keeps momentum / generates free turns better than something like chienpao (of course… you’re slower,priority comes w a drawback, etc)
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 2, Guests: 0)

Top