Online Competition Ultra No Holds Barred

Theorymon

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#26
I still want an answer for my Taunt/Mental Herb/Shuckle question...

Also the issue of breaking Sashes with hazards/weather has been raised. Is there any potential for Hippowdon in this meta? A solid physical wall with Sand Stream, Stealth Rock, Whirlwind, Earthquake, Ice Fang(?) would seem to do well on paper. Better than A-Ninetails.
Yeah I still see Taunt on the tapus. Mental Herb still sounds worth it on Shuckle imo

I actually haven't seen any Hippowdon, but it probably still works fine. Breaking Marshadow's sashes is honestly a huge boon! Just note, both Necrozmas can bust through it though, so Hippowdon doesn't wall stuff quite as well as usual. But the usual Yawn shenigans should still be fine!

Heh that reminds me, I've been using Focus Sash Timid Tyranitar. Idea is: I use Foul Play as the STAB to hit the Necrozmas, and fully invest in Speed and Special Attack to outspace slower Zygardes and mess with them. Might otpimize the EVs a bit more though, Timid might be going too far lol. I do like outspeeding slower Necrozmas though!

Overall, the big difference between this year and last year is that with both Necrozmas pretty much being top tier, people are using a lot of funky Dark-types. Bulky Dark-types like Umbreon and Mandibuzz are pretty great (I like how Mandibuzz outspeeds bulkier Necrozma in particular), but I've also seen quite a few frailer ones popping up. Biggest boon is that Darkrai is a lot better than it was last year just for hitting the Necrozmas. I've also seen some Focus Sash Weavile, whose pretty effective if only because it also hits Zygarde hard.

Silly as it sounds, I want to try Krookodile because while it's normally a worse Landorus-T, the Dark-typing and Foul Play make it a lot more interesting than usual. A Scarf set basically nukes any Necrozma that get a Swords Dance up, and it even gets Pursuit if you wanna smash switch-outs!

Speaking of Scarf mons, I broke the 1400 barrier on showdown using a VERY strange Pokemon!

Meloetta @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
-Psychic
-Shadow Ball
-U-turn
-Trick / Thunderbolt / Hyper Voice

Yeah seriously, Scarf Meloetta! You'd think it'd just be a worse Tapu Lele, but there are three key things that have made it really worth it for me thus far: U-turn for breaking Marshadow sashes, the much higher bulk, and the Ghost-type immunity (trick has been nice too but I didn't always fit it in, but I do like it for messing with a lot of the bulkier Zygardes). While it isn't tooo powerful, Shadow Ball has at least been keeping Necrozmas at bay. In fact, since Meloetta is rather specially bulky, I've been beating Dawn Wings one on one desite Shadow Ball not doing all that much after it starts setting up Calm Mind, just because most Dawn Wings Necrozma lack moves that can blast it soon enough (Signal Beam seems to mostly stick on the scarf sets, which get owned by Meloetta lol).

It does also survive Marshadow Close Combat, though it does a ton of damage so it can be a bit iffy to switch in unless you're baiting a Ghost-type attack. Also, Serene Grace Special Defense drops are pretty funny lol. But yeah, this thing is far better than I ever expected! I might consider making a bulkier EV spread, since I feel like I only really need enough speed to outspeed Jolly Dragon Dance Mega Gyarados when using Thunderbolt, and could go even slower with the other moves. Only real big issue is that I'll get outsped by Pheromosa, whom, while not common, can be a real pain in the butt lol. I also like outspeeding Adamant +1 Zygarde, even if Meloetta does piss poor damage to it!
 
#27
Yeah I still see Taunt on the tapus. Mental Herb still sounds worth it on Shuckle imo

I actually haven't seen any Hippowdon, but it probably still works fine. Breaking Marshadow's sashes is honestly a huge boon! Just note, both Necrozmas can bust through it though, so Hippowdon doesn't wall stuff quite as well as usual. But the usual Yawn shenigans should still be fine!

Heh that reminds me, I've been using Focus Sash Timid Tyranitar. Idea is: I use Foul Play as the STAB to hit the Necrozmas, and fully invest in Speed and Special Attack to outspace slower Zygardes and mess with them. Might otpimize the EVs a bit more though, Timid might be going too far lol. I do like outspeeding slower Necrozmas though!

Overall, the big difference between this year and last year is that with both Necrozmas pretty much being top tier, people are using a lot of funky Dark-types. Bulky Dark-types like Umbreon and Mandibuzz are pretty great (I like how Mandibuzz outspeeds bulkier Necrozma in particular), but I've also seen quite a few frailer ones popping up. Biggest boon is that Darkrai is a lot better than it was last year just for hitting the Necrozmas. I've also seen some Focus Sash Weavile, whose pretty effective if only because it also hits Zygarde hard.

Silly as it sounds, I want to try Krookodile because while it's normally a worse Landorus-T, the Dark-typing and Foul Play make it a lot more interesting than usual. A Scarf set basically nukes any Necrozma that get a Swords Dance up, and it even gets Pursuit if you wanna smash switch-outs!

Speaking of Scarf mons, I broke the 1400 barrier on showdown using a VERY strange Pokemon!

Meloetta @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
-Psychic
-Shadow Ball
-U-turn
-Trick / Thunderbolt / Hyper Voice

Yeah seriously, Scarf Meloetta! You'd think it'd just be a worse Tapu Lele, but there are three key things that have made it really worth it for me thus far: U-turn for breaking Marshadow sashes, the much higher bulk, and the Ghost-type immunity (trick has been nice too but I didn't always fit it in, but I do like it for messing with a lot of the bulkier Zygardes). While it isn't tooo powerful, Shadow Ball has at least been keeping Necrozmas at bay. In fact, since Meloetta is rather specially bulky, I've been beating Dawn Wings one on one desite Shadow Ball not doing all that much after it starts setting up Calm Mind, just because most Dawn Wings Necrozma lack moves that can blast it soon enough (Signal Beam seems to mostly stick on the scarf sets, which get owned by Meloetta lol).

It does also survive Marshadow Close Combat, though it does a ton of damage so it can be a bit iffy to switch in unless you're baiting a Ghost-type attack. Also, Serene Grace Special Defense drops are pretty funny lol. But yeah, this thing is far better than I ever expected! I might consider making a bulkier EV spread, since I feel like I only really need enough speed to outspeed Jolly Dragon Dance Mega Gyarados when using Thunderbolt, and could go even slower with the other moves. Only real big issue is that I'll get outsped by Pheromosa, whom, while not common, can be a real pain in the butt lol. I also like outspeeding Adamant +1 Zygarde, even if Meloetta does piss poor damage to it!
Well you’ve convinced me to try it out. 192 speed EVs lets you outspeed +1 adamant Zygarde and +1 jolly mega Gyarados.
Have you found Trick or Thunderbolt to be more useful?
 
#28
This format is really fun, glad they brought it back. Unfortunately my rain team from last year doesn’t seem to be as good this time with all the necrozma around.

I’ve been testing an Aurora veil team that seems to be pretty good though. There doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of weather teams in this format so Aurora veil is not too hard to set up and it makes bulky mons like necrozma even harder to break through. I even managed to get past 1400 on the ladder with it myself.
 
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#29
What are people thinking is the best Stealth Rocker here? Currently testing out Mew with Wisp/Ice Beam/Roost, but that means half my team is Psychic which is not super ideal for the format...I do recall using Mamo last year but would like to do something a little different! Also it would be crazy to put SR on Necrozma right?? I guess you could rock a surprise support set?

Here are the current semi-viable options I can think of:
Mew
Skarmory
Mamoswine
Nihilego
Ferrothorn
Clefable?
Shuckle
Swampert?
Azelf
Heatran

I'm certainly no expert so by all means let me know if I'm missing anything! I don't have Diancie or Jirachi so I haven't listed them, but not sure if they would usually run SR anyway...maybe Deoxys-S? What's everyone else running?

Thanks in advance peeps ^_^
 
#30
What are people thinking is the best Stealth Rocker here? Currently testing out Mew with Wisp/Ice Beam/Roost, but that means half my team is Psychic which is not super ideal for the format...I do recall using Mamo last year but would like to do something a little different! Also it would be crazy to put SR on Necrozma right?? I guess you could rock a surprise support set?

Here are the current semi-viable options I can think of:
Mew
Skarmory
Mamoswine
Nihilego
Ferrothorn
Clefable?
Shuckle
Swampert?
Azelf
Heatran

I'm certainly no expert so by all means let me know if I'm missing anything! I don't have Diancie or Jirachi so I haven't listed them, but not sure if they would usually run SR anyway...maybe Deoxys-S? What's everyone else running?

Thanks in advance peeps ^_^
The ‘best’ Stealth Rock setter is kind of kind of hard to determine, because they each do different things. Nihilego is an offensive setter, while Shuckle is pure support.
 
#31
The ‘best’ Stealth Rock setter is kind of kind of hard to determine, because they each do different things. Nihilego is an offensive setter, while Shuckle is pure support.
Fair enough, I realise that but I guess I just wanted to get a sense of what other people were doing, and what hazard setters are being used on different teams etc.

I don't think I want anything too support-oriented (not really my playstyle), but maybe suggestions regarding what would fit best with the rest of my team (link) - as mentioned, the Mew is my current guinea pig, generally if I see Marshadow. Magearna/Lele is my Marsh check combo (among other things obvs), while the others are generally good at killing stuff. Nothing too niche or fancy here, just trying to get the job done - I am considering TR Necrozma to go along with Magearna but haven't tested yet.
 
#32
Incineroar is also not bad in this competition.

Is Glitch Mew allowed in such a competition? I have one but doesn't know if I get banned but if it won't be allowed they also should make a patch for the Virtual Pokemon Red?
 
#34
Sure it can. It's a bit difficult, but definately possible.

I have a timid shift gear magearna and a modest. What could be the better one and what could be the best set for this competition? Only the timid one has hp fire, if this matters. It would be glad if someone could help me!
 
#35
Sure it can. It's a bit difficult, but definately possible.

I have a timid shift gear magearna and a modest. What could be the better one and what could be the best set for this competition? Only the timid one has hp fire, if this matters. It would be glad if someone could help me!
I’d go with HP Fire, simply because it hits more relevant steel types than Focus Blast.
 
#38
So you think a shift gear set should be used over an assault vest set?

The question is, if I should choose an defensive assault set or the offensive shift gear set. Is HP Fire the reason for you to choose the shift gear set or in general?
 
#40
I thought the only reason to use Magearna in this was the Trick Room Z-Fleur Cannon set. I've literally never seen anything else.
I used AV Magearna last year, and it did some good work - was considering TR this time around though as I sr'd for a 0 speed IV in UM, and it's nice to get a chance to actually use these things.

I would have thought also, if that's all you've seen that a different set could catch people off guard? AV may not be straight up better than TR but still worth a mention?
 
#41
Someone to do the Viabilty List of Ultra No Holds Barred ?

I have the impression that it is not at all the same meta as the previous year, and that the different Necrozma's forms redistributes cards completely. Correct me if i am wrong.

Only one Pokémon can do really well the job in front of Necrozma's, Umbreon.

Umbreon @ Dread Plate
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Foul Play
- Sucker Punch

0 Atk Dread Plate Umbreon Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma-Dawn-Wings: 342-405 (102 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 Atk Dread Plate Umbreon Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 261-307 (77.9 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Dread Plate Umbreon Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 78-94 (23.2 - 28%) -- 82.4% chance to 4HKO

0 Atk Dread Plate Umbreon Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Necrozma-Ultra: 462-546 (137.9 - 162.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
#42
I used AV magearna last year, but it was mainly for psychic spam teams which aren’t as popular anymore thanks to the new necrozma forms. Plus AV Magearna also struggles to deal with Dusk mane necrozma which, from what I’ve seen, is on nearly every other team.

So, in my opinion, I don’t think AV Magearna is as viable this time around as it was in the last competition. But who knows, I could be wrong.
 
#44
Someone working on a viability list?

The biggest threads so far are Marshadow, the Necrozma forms, Zygarde and Mega Gyarados. Umbreon is for me to much niche because its to passive.
 
#45
This is only my opinion, so I would obviously listen to all your criticism.

RANK S

- Marshadow
- Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
- Zygarde
- Ultra Necrozma


RANK A

- Magearna
- Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
- Tapu Koko
- Tapu Lele
- Tapu Bulu
- Celesteela
- Deoxys-A
- Genesect
- M-Blaziken
- Sableye (For Prankster who can deal with some Pokemon )
- Landorus
- Greninja / Ash-Greninja
- M-Gyarados
- M-Salamence


RANK B

- Chansey
- Shaymin-Sky
- Volcanion
- Victini
- M-Kangashkan
- Skarmory
- Ditto
- Garchomp
- Aegislash
- Umbreon
- Charizard X/Y
- Darkrai
- Hoopa Unbound
- M-Lopunny
- Porygon 2
- Pheromosa
- M-Diancie
- Cloyster
- Mew
- Ferrothorn
- M-Swampert
- Hippodown
- Mamoswine
- Volcarona
- Gyarados
- Meloetta
- M-Gengar
- M-Mawile
- Mandibuzz
- Quagsire
- Clefable ?


RANK C

- Shuckle
- Smeargle
- Talonflame
- Scolipede
- Pelipper
- M Slowbro
- Toxapex
- Azumarill
- Naganadel


EDITED THE 17 MAY 2018 / Question : What rank for Blacephalon ?
 
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#46
I don't see Magearna viable, especially not in S. Why is Mamoswine that high? I really don't know how to use it. Mostly you make damage and then it faints
 
#47
Mamoswine can deal with some Pokemon : Zygarde, Magearna, Tapu Koko, Shaymin Sky, M-Salamence, Garchomp, Landorus, Aegislash, M-Gengar and Mimikyu.

And with Stealth Rock, he can break Marshadow Sash .... and put % 50 on Charizard and Volcarona ... !

Magearna was viable for me ... he can check some good Pokémon too same as : Koko, Gengar, Greninja, Lele, Diancie, Necrozma Dawn wings . And it is a fabulous Trick-Room setter .
 

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