Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon UU Viability Ranking

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#26
Update for December 8th

Scolipede will be unranked since it was banned.

Thanks for being patient.

As always, feel free to discuss if you feel like your points were not fairly addressed. The next update is going to be very big most likely, since we have never went through the whole list one by one as we will be doing next time. This will be after the tier shift. Feel free to discuss anything, no main discussion points. Two new S rank Pokemon are obviously the biggest changes in this update.

Rises
Azumarill A → S
Rising because it has a new toy in Perish Song + Whirlpool + Sap Sipper, which individually is easily enough dealt with, but when considering it has the extremely dangerous Huge Power sets, Azumarill becomes a guessing game for its first turn. Meanwhile, all sets can abuse its nice typing both offensively and defensively.

Serperior A+ → S
Like Azumarill it has a combination of sets that leave it no reliable switch ins, apart from random Sap Sipper Pokemon. The lack of initial power is made up from the good power after a boost and average bulk at onset.

Blissey B+ → A-
Stall is becoming dominant and Bissey is the queen of stall, basically used on 100% of all stall teams. She fits so easily because she can provide either Heal Bell or Stealth Rock support in addition to walling a large amount of special attackers, which gives near perfect synergy with Alomomola and Quagsire, two other (slightly less common) stall staples.


Amoonguss A- → A
It checks or counters many of the top Pokemon like Rotom-Wash and Serperior and can be used on a wide variety of styles since its ability and movepool lets it keep up a relatively fast paced for a defensive Pokemon. Appreciates to some extent a fall in Klefki.

(Alolan Sandslash) UR → A-
Auroros UR --> A-
Aurora Veil teams are popping up again and these two Pokemon are integral to their success to set up the screens. This is a strong style because it allows easy set up for dangerous threats like Scizor, Latias but also lesser used Pokemon like Kommo-o.


Rotom Cutter C+ → B-
Defog is a new and good option for Rotom-Cut since it beats most of the SR users with a few notable exceptions (Gliscor, Blissey). Besides that, it still functions on Volt-Turn cores well despite competition from mainstream Electric types.

Altaria Mega A → A+
Newfound place on some stall teams, a stall Pokemon that can beat Whirlpool Azumarill is quite interesting. Refresh sets and different types of DD sets in general are seeing something of a resurgence, and since they are more dangerous than nonboosting sets, Altaria is rising.

Seismitoad B+ → A-
Eclipsing Swampert in terms of roles because of the good matchup versus Rotom-Wash.

Kyurem B → B+
Two main sets are responsible for the rise - Choice Specs and Substitute Roost. Both can easily wear down and outlast typical checks, particularly if they try to counter you. Scizor, Muk Alolan and Azumarill all are easily worn down. Also, Kyurem has a relatively easy time coming in because of how common Gliscor and a few other Pokemon are.

Moltres B → B+
Rising again because the potency of its defensive sets and offensive sets, which are still trending.

Florges B- → B

Florges is quicker and does not waste as much time as compared to Sylveon, HP Fire can really hurt Scizor which can outspeed and U-Turn on Sylveon. Kommo-o still exists and can potentially wall Sylveon. Overall, nearly as good as Sylveon.

Lucario C+ → B-
A very good wallbreaker hich is important because stall is rising. Nasty Plot sets in particular are hard to wall and can OHKO Quagsire with Z Focus Blast or even Life Orb Focus Blast with a little damage. Other sets are still viable. The problem is lack of bulk, average speed, and lack of power before boosting.

Hoopa C → C+
Substitute Nasty Plot sets are rising somewhat, and Hoopa in general are liking a small rise in Sticky Web teams.

Haxorus C+ → B-
Benefits from Kommo-o gone, breaks stall.


Drops
Sharpedo Mega A+ → A

It is seeing increased competition from Megas, Manectric in particular has been rising. Also, Spikes is not as good as before which deprives Sharpedo of some support.

Swampert A- --> B+
Switching places with Seismitoad since it cannot deal with Rotom-Wash as easily.

Klefki A → A-


Spikes offense is falling out of popularity, proabbly because of increase in Defog. Klefki's defensive utility is good, but often not totally reliable due to lack of good recovery.

Slowbro B- → C+

Nobody uses it and it will fall more unless somebody defends it. Screwed up by Volt-Turn.

Kommo-o A+ → B-

It can still do work despite losing Z-Clanging Scales. It is especially good as a boosting attacker on Aurora Veil. However, SR is also a nice support move which it can even use in conjunction with boosting moves a la Cobalion.

Zygarde B+ → B

Two reasons for the drop - VoltTurn is relying more and more on Manectric Mega over Rotom Wash, which is a much worse matchup for Zygarde since they run HP Ice most of the time. Also, Spikes offense which Zygarde enjoys being placed on is falling as a playstyle.
I wasn't patient at all
 

Highways

Eric Dier sucks
is a Tiering Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
#27
I still dont think seismitoed is better than swampert, they should be around the same because Roar is really useful and it can get ice beam so it doesnt lose to gliscor like seismitoed does. I dont think you guys fully considered seismitoed as a whole and just saw that it beats rotom - which it doesnt do reliably, it just gets rocks up and blocks switch, but still gets toxiced - so you decided to put it above swampert. I still think swampy should drop though so if they could both be B+ that would make a lot of sense, since theyre essentialy analogous of eachother, it really depends what your team needs.
You're kinda wrong here. Imo the best Seismitoad set is Refresh, which can be used without Heal Bell support, allowing Seismitoad to beat Rotom-W and other Toxic Pokemon such as Tentacruel 1v1. Usually you're going to get rid of Earthquake, but it isn't really necessary since Mega Mane and Kou can't hurt you anyway and Toxic/Knock Off are better overall. Seismitoad is better than Swampert basically because Swampert can't beat Rotom-W and doesn't learn Knock, and the rankings represent it well. Roar is a decent niche but I'd not say it is as good as Knock atm.
 

Moutemoute

Fluffy & Lazy ツ
is a Tiering Contributor
#28
I definitively agree with both bsu and Machiavelli. Aurorus and Sandslash-A shouldn't be that much high on the Viability Rankings. Of course, Veil is trully amazing for set-up Sweeper and Auro-Slash can bring some utility with Sr / Rapid Spin but. A-.. really ?! I mean, I've played a lot of game in a couple of days and I met only once a team with Aurorus and Sanslash-A Veil (and I was laddering around 1480-1600 Elo). This 2 Pokemon can't be higher than some Pokemon like Kyurem or Alomomola and on a equal footing with Tentacruel, Starmie, Togekiss or Heracross. Bringing both Aurorus and Sandslash-A on a team mean that basically, one-third of the team is only dedicated to put the Aurora Veil. That's too much in my opinion and this contrains ur teambuilding a lot. Maybe they deserve a rank, but clearly not that much high on the Viability Ranking.
 
#29
Snorlax: B- to B
Snorlax has been noticeably better in UU lately due to factors. The first factor is due to the rise of strong special attackers like Serperior, Mega Manetric, Rotom-C, Moltres, and kyurem, and the latter two are checked by Snorlax's ability, Thicc fat. The second factor is due to the new resurgence of Aurora Veil, which lets Snorlax set up with curse with relative ease and allow an opportunity to sweep. Snorlax is very good at checking the various special attackers in the tier thanks to it's gargantuan 160/110 special bulk. It is a great stop to the ever prevelant Mega Manetric thanks to it's great special bulk and thick fat, which lets it switch in on a hidden power ice, and earthquake it into oblivion. With all of the special attacker currently, Snorlax finds it easier to set up and sweep.
 
#31
So I am not a competitive player (Filthy Casual), but I find this concept of tiering Pokemon very interesting. What I want to know is what will happen to the Kommo-o's that can use his Z-Move? Where will he go?
 

Moutemoute

Fluffy & Lazy ツ
is a Tiering Contributor
#32
So I am not a competitive player (Filthy Casual), but I find this concept of tiering Pokemon very interesting. What I want to know is what will happen to the Kommo-o's that can use his Z-Move? Where will he go?
It will probably stay in RarelyUsed if it's not ban from the tier. It can be good in UU but it need some support (the Sub + Belly Drum & Salac Berry is probably its best set in the actual UU).
 
#33
It will probably stay in RarelyUsed if it's not ban from the tier. It can be good in UU but it need some support (the Sub + Belly Drum & Salac Berry is probably its best set in the actual UU).
Well going by the list above and on the front he is B- Class in UU, while he was A+ in UU. But what does this mean for Kommonium-Z? Is it only usable in OU?
 

eaglehawk

once known as smogon gay baby #4
#37
I don't know whether the Aurora Veil combo (Aurorus + ASlash) is worthy of A-. Aurora Veil is undoubtedly a threatening playstyle, sacrificing two slots for one screens that is hard to reset once it runs out feels more like a B- or C level strategy. By sacrificing a teamslot for a support Pokemon instead of a sweeper cuts down on the number of threats your Veil team can actually cover.
 
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yeezyknows

warhols on my wall paint a war story
is a Tiering Contributor
#40
Hera

A- --> A

Stall's seeing a pretty big resurgence rn. It's far more viable/easy to use than in other sm uu metas, and I think Hera should rise accordingly. The fact remains that stall had no hera switch-ins in sm uu, and it still has none in usum uu. As stall's popularity/viability rises, so too should the VR of the tier's best stallbreaker.
 
#41
Hello, I'd like to voice my opinion on a mon I've been using frequently since it got buffed in USM.


Necrozma: C+ -> B-

As you all know, Necrozma was the main focal point in the latest Pokémon installments, and along with three new Necrozma forms came a pretty nifty buff to its arsenal; Heat Wave, Earth Power, Photon Geyser, and among others all helped vanilla Necrozma out on the offensive side. With these new tools it can effectively dispatch things it otherwise struggled with without the need of anything fancy. Speed is still a bit on the low end but it's enough for 252+ 65's and 252 70's at Modest nature.

This is the main set I've been using:
Necrozma @ Choice Specs
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 20 HP / 252 SpA / 236 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Photon Geyser
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Signal Beam

What this set accomplishes is the power to break through a plethora of mons that it couldn't really do before it got access to its new moves. Photon Geyser is a very nice boost to Necrozma'a STAB at the cost of lower PP, Heat Wave burns through Scizor and Serperior, Earth Power hits Empoleon, Klefki and Alolan Muk, and lastly Signal Beam is there to 2HKO Hydreigon, Krookodile and Latias. They can even be made into OHKO's after prior damage which I feel like is easy in this meta because we have the likes of Gliscor's U-Turn and Mega Manectric's Volt Switch to wear down answers to Necrozma.


The aforementioned defensive Stealth Rock set is still plausible in my opinion, having good natural bulk, recovery, Prism Armor and resists to Psychic and Fighting aren't too shabby, but I'd like to make a case that SD and CM sets have improved as well. Knock Off is just a good move to have on such a set with its general spammability and ability to hit ghost and opposing psychic types. I also think any set that comes to light that can co-exist with another set adds unpredictability to said Pokémon and having to make your opponent think harder in preview or being able to grab a surprise KO otherwise is a buff in my eyes.

Offensive (100BP Psychic is a placeholder for Photon Geyser):

252+ SpA Choice Specs Necrozma Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 226-268 (60.7 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Necrozma Heat Wave vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Aggron-Mega: 210-247 (61.2 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Necrozma Psychic vs. 244 HP / 196 SpD Gliscor: 267-315 (75.8 - 89.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Choice Specs Necrozma Signal Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 288-340 (88.6 - 104.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Choice Specs Necrozma Heat Wave vs. 248 HP / 136 SpD Scizor: 688-812 (200.5 - 236.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Defensive

252 Atk Krookodile Pursuit vs. 20 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma: 91-109 (26.7 - 32%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252 SpA Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 20 HP / 0 SpD Prism Armor Necrozma: 211-249 (62 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 20 HP / 0 Def Necrozma: 160-190 (47 - 55.8%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Guts Heracross Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 20 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma: 252-297 (74.1 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-673567160 Necrozma picks up 3 KO's (Crit on Reuniclus seems lucky on my part but it was a roll in my favor. See here: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Necrozma Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 182-215 (42.9 - 50.7%)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-673500702 Necrozma was able to stomach a hit from Hydreigon and helped me win late-game.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-675901477
 
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pokeisfun

UU player and community member
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
#42
Just posting to say the ranking council thinks you're all absolutely right; Aurora Veil shouldn't have been ranked so high for the reasons already mentioned and because the weakness to Defog. We agreed those reasons should make it B ranked instead.

I was hoping to change it when the tier shifts happened but seeing as we don't know when that will happen, I may as well do it now to make the thread a little more accurate so that is that. Expect the next update to come after tier shifts unless the delay is super long.
 

explodingdaisies

What's the point of talking if nobody ever listens
is a Pre-Contributor
#43
Hera

A- --> A

Stall's seeing a pretty big resurgence rn. It's far more viable/easy to use than in other sm uu metas, and I think Hera should rise accordingly. The fact remains that stall had no hera switch-ins in sm uu, and it still has none in usum uu. As stall's popularity/viability rises, so too should the VR of the tier's best stallbreaker.
I completely agree. Stall has pretty much nothing but granbull for hera and even then it's fairly easy to wear down
 
#44
Crobat - from B to B+
I'd like to suggest Crobat to rise for a few reasons: Being a nice answer to Serperior (the main one), very nice speed control, access to Defog, having a typing that helps checking certain mons (like Altaria), being able to run Taunt and break stall (as it can't be poisoned either), and flying STAB just being really nice, mainly SSSS. Rotom and steel-typings in general can be a problem, but mons like Seismitoad can support Crobat nicely on that.
 
#45
I'd like to expand a bit on the Necrozma nomination which i highly agree with.

This is the set I've been using

Necrozma @ Groundium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Photon Geyser
- Earthquake
- Moonlight

This set has great coverage, only struggling with Latias where it can't really do anything back and it can't hit Mandibuzz at all.

The thing this set excels at is luring in and OHKOing the premier Psychic-type counter and Pursuit trapper in UU - Alolan Muk. Getting rid of Alolan Muk is a way to allow other Psychic types like Latias to safely come in and set up or reliably get locked into their Psychic STAB. Swords Dance is an amazing setup move that can now be used with a reliable psudo-physical STAB in Photon Geyser. Photon Geyser makes for a great way to hide physical or special as well and Necrozma's unpredicability is quite dangerous in the current meta where Fighting-types are very powerful. Prism Armor is also great to help Necrozma set up without fearing super-effective coverage.

+2 also nets KOs on Mega Steelix, Doublade, and other psychic checks in the meta. It also chunks Aggron pretty hard.

252+ Atk Necrozma Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Muk-Alola: 476-562 (115.2 - 136%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Necrozma Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix-Mega: 358-422 (101.7 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Necrozma Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 352-416 (110.3 - 130.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Necrozma Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Metagross: 300-354 (99.6 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Necrozma Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 268-316 (78.1 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


This is showcased in my UU Startup Tour game here (team shoutout TSR) where Necrozma lures in Alolan Muk and KO's it with Tectonic Rage.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7uu-335444

There are obviously more sets which are good but I just wanted to show this really cool one at the moment. :)
 
#46
Crobat - from B to B+
I'd like to suggest Crobat to rise for a few reasons: Being a nice answer to Serperior (the main one), very nice speed control, access to Defog, having a typing that helps checking certain mons (like Altaria), being able to run Taunt and break stall (as it can't be poisoned either), and flying STAB just being really nice, mainly SSSS. Rotom and steel-typings in general can be a problem, but mons like Seismitoad can support Crobat nicely on that.
I agree with this nomination due to the fact serperior makes this mon grow in utility, but having access to defog doesn't really help it much in the current meta imo because most of the rocks setters are bulky enough to take crobat attacks or even treaten it with EQ in case it tries to roost the rocks damage out, and if you have to check some specific threats AND defog you eventually run out of HP pretty fast bc its a rocks weak pokemon.

I also feel like empoleon is a bit too high on the ranks atm, since rotom-W took some of its defog niche.
 
#47
I agree with this nomination due to the fact serperior makes this mon grow in utility, but having access to defog doesn't really help it much in the current meta imo because most of the rocks setters are bulky enough to take crobat attacks or even treaten it with EQ in case it tries to roost the rocks damage out, and if you have to check some specific threats AND defog you eventually run out of HP pretty fast bc its a rocks weak pokemon.

I also feel like empoleon is a bit too high on the ranks atm, since rotom-W took some of its defog niche.
I agree with the above, as crobat has all these perks, plus taunt and a high attack stat which allows it to use things like Flyinium-Z or Band pretty effectively.
 

Amane Misa

ідіот
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
Moderator
#48
B→B+: Agree
With Serperior in the tier, reliably switching-in on Serperior is something that common Bulky Offense builds struggles against. Crobat's typing helps naturally check Serperior and it also offers Bulky Offense builds Speed control and it makes good partners with Bulky Offense staples, such as Rotom-W and Mega Manectric, contributing the VoltTurn core.

A-→B+:
Following Godfather 4's post, Empoleon faces heavy competition from Rotom-W as a bulky Defog user. Although Empoleon is bulkier, Rotom-W boasts higher Speed, has an immediate recovery in Pain Split, and has a better synergy with the top-tier Pokemon, such as Scizor and Gliscor.

As for the Stealth Rock setter set, it faces competition from Seismitoad, which is faster, has more HP, and most importantly - has Electric- and Water-type immunities.

B-→B:
Another Pokemon that has been rising in popularity. This Pokemon takes advantage of nowadays' metagame trends, such as slapping Rotom-W and Scizor on many teams, as it quite easily breaks through this core. It also often paired with a Pursuit trapper, like Alolan Muk, to increase its effectiveness against the aforementioned Rotom-W + Scizor builds, which usually paired with Latias.

Volcanion can also utilize rather niche options, such as Superpower to break through Blissey, Hidden Power Grass to break through Seismitoad, and more.
 
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Hilomilo

High-low My-low
is a Contributor to Smogon
#49
It's been a little while since I've posted here, though there are a few things I think could reasonably happen in this VR this next update. Here's what I have in mind:

Rises
Alomomola up to A-
This is something I've personally wanted for a while now, and I think that it's only fair for Alomomola to rise alongside Blissey. Stall is an extremely strong playstyle right now and Alo can prove to be one of the most integral Pokemon to several current defensive builds. It forms one of the most potent cores in the tier with Blissey and provides for plenty of other team archetypes, most notably balance. Its passiveness is definitely an issue, but it provides teams with a strong check to big presences like Cobalion, Scizor, and Mega Aerodactyl, and the fact that its favorite play style is rising in addition to just being better than the rest of B+ is enough for a rise in my book.

Mega Aggron up to A-
I'm really high on Mega Aggron right now and I don't think that it gets the recognition it fully deserves. Its typing and ability allow it to provide balance and bulky offensive teams with a reliable entry hazard setter and strong check to multiple top threats, including Serperior, Azumarill, and Mega Altaria, which have all risen even further in viability recently. Moreover, Mega Aggron stands up to a lot of Pokemon that are on the rise themselves lately, which include Crobat, Alolan Muk, Blissey, and Doublade. Its decent offensive presence in addition to the insane defensive utility it offers has become much more valuable by virtue of good responses to recent meta trends, and I think that Mega Aggron's increased viability should be reflected by new placement in A-.

Quagsire up to B
Sort of a straightforward nomination since I honestly don't think it needs much depth. Quagsire isn't an absolute necessity to stall, but it can provide a crucial amount to defensive teams it's fitted on due to its ability to easily stop a plethora of Pokemon that can be very threatening to stall, including Terrakion, SD Mega Absol, and Suicune (though this matchup is a little more dependent on if Quagsire wants to use Cune as Curse fodder, since otherwise burns suck). I think it's a rather simple nomination that's mostly just being made on the basis of Quagsire being a near staple on a really good playstyle, which isn't a trait shared by anything else in B-.

Araquanid up to C+/B-
Araquanid is honestly a really solid webs setter right now, and a rise to a rank above Smeargle should absolutely reflect that. Its defensive typing is actually really useful for providing teams with a decent switch-in to huge presences in Infernape, Cobalion, and especially Mamoswine, which is notorious for lacking defensive counterplay. It also has an insane offensive presence thanks to Water Bubble, and is easily capable of threatening common hazard removers in Gliscor, Latias, Starmie, and Mega Blastoise, which loses 1v1 due to Araq's solid special bulk. Its solid offensive and defensive utility overall provides it with plentiful opportunities to set webs while providing for teams beyond doing just that, and I think that keeping it in C doesn't accurately reflect its usefulness.

Tsareena ranked somewhere around C/C-
Before you raise your pitchforks, I'm totally aware that Tsareena was more or less a laughing stock in UU while it was here by usage. However, it got access to a few huge tools come USUM, those tools being Power Whip and Knock Off, and I've found that it honestly has a lot of worth as an offensive spinner. Here's the set I've been using:
Tsareena @ Meadow Plate / Life Orb
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Power Whip
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
- High Jump Kick / Synthesis

I never really thought to get replays since I sort of just decided to vouch for Tsareena on the spot, but this set has been doing really well for me on ladder and can really consistently spin hazards away due to the switches Tsareena can force. With Power Whip, it can heavily damage a huge portion of entry hazard setters, like Gliscor, Swampert, Seismitoad, and Krookodile. Knock Off covers the Ghost-types that could previously block its attempts to spin, like Chandelure and Doublade, and High Jump Kick takes care of Hydreigon and the Steel-types that otherwise wall it. Overall, I think that it has a solid niche now as an offensive spinner that beyond spinning, has some other cool utility in the forms of pressuring the tier's ever-present bulky Water-types and if need be, picking off weakened Scizor thanks to Queenly Majesty. Obvious flaws include being worn down easily if it doesn't use Synthesis, 4mss, and average stats barring its attack, though I think that right now it can put in enough work to justify placement in at least C-.

Drops
Suicune down to A-
Suicune's viability can honestly be pretty hard to assess, given that its responses to metagame trends are different all the time. Right now, I think that it still gets the job done as an amazing bulky sweeper, though there are a few more things working against it than before that don't allow me to believe it's as consistent as what else is in A. Serperior's entry to the tier hurt Suicune a lot, given that it's more or less reduced to setup fodder against one of the tier's most defining forces. It also isn't enjoyed the influx in stall usage/viability, due to the archetype carrying a good amount of Pokemon capable of dealing with it in some way, most notably Tentacruel. What's more is that the presence of Dragon-types, Mega Manectric, Rotom-W, and water-immune Pokemon are as troublesome for Suicune to deal with as before, unless it has set up a fair amount. Overall, I still think that it deserves credit as a fantastic sweeper that finds a lot of opportunities to accumulate boosts, though it isn't as good as before due to its struggles against a lot of popular Pokemon and play styles.

Kommo-O down to C/C+
Kommo-O took a hit in losing access to its signature Z-move, and while that was reflected with a drop to B-, I still don't think it's fair to say that Kommo-O is as good in the metagame as Pokemon like Metagross, Bewear, and Lucario. It's certainly not as good at sweeping with Dragon Dance as Haxorus due to its worse typing for setup and much worse Attack and Speed stats, and while special attacking sets are potent, they still have the same problems they had throughout SM, which include a lack of reliable Fighting-type STAB, no attacks that are really spammable at all, low Speed, and average power that nearly requires the use of Choice Specs. As both a physical and special attacker, I think that Kommo-O has a fair amount of niches over its competition, but that Haxorus generally fulfills a physical sweeping role more reliably, and Hydreigon and Kyurem generally fulfill special wallbreaking roles more reliably as well. Certainly not a bad Pokemon, but not something that is good enough for B- in my opinion.

Smeargle down to C/C-
I already talked about personally believing that Smeargle is worse than Araquanid, which for me definitely means that Araquanid rising to C+ should be followed by Smeargle dropping out of it. Smeargle's access to Spore and Stealth Rock give it the ability to consistently set up Sticky Web in addition to providing more utility to its team, though its total lack of an offensive presence and poor Speed for a suicide lead (web suicide leads are also just kind of mediocre in general) makes Araquanid, a Pokemon capable of threatening most hazard setters either offensively or defensively, the better option a good amount of the time. I still think that being one of the most annoying Pokemon to face due to carrying Spore should give it placement on the VR, though I don't think said placement is justified above Araquanid or, if the water spider goes to B-, even in C+.

Hope these nominations spark some discussion, and that you guys enjoyed reading! Let me know what you guys think :)
 

explodingdaisies

What's the point of talking if nobody ever listens
is a Pre-Contributor
#50
I agree with all the rises and drops except for Kommo-o. While there are better choices for DDancers and better choice for specs users, Kommo-o's potential lies in its Sub BD with salac berry. This set is extremely potent and it can set up on most defensive threats in the game(rotom-w, swampert, alo, suicune, sylveon and altaria if they're both carrying hyper voice. Also bulky scizor's BP has around a 50% chance to break sub). Couple it with Soundproof, then it can't be roar'd away or be hit with hyper voice. While I agree it should drop as its z set was far and away better, I can't see Kommo-o falling to C+. Also it's at that crucial base 85 speed so it outspeeds m-aero after salac procs. It also has access to drain punch and a plethora of coverage moves. It's not without weakness though. It can be deadweight against quag stall, has a 4x fairy weakness and isn't really threatening unless it boosts. All in all, it got worse, but not C+ worse.
 
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