Unless the main site is wrong, your information is outdated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat CardsOfTheHeart
Punishment is actually even better than what Forsety is letting on. (Where's that Punishment info coming from, anyway?)
Move research thread.
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Unconventional tactics
- Thread starter Battlerek
- Start date
Unfortuately most pokemon will never bother with these moves as they have better things to do. However there are ways to work some strategies I guess. A good Choice Counter would be a pokemon with
Pokemon @ Leftovers
EVS: 252 HP / Rest in Defenses
Defense Raising Nature
-Torment
-Protect
-Healing Move
-Attack
With good prediction this would allow you to torment them if you can survive an attack or use torment on the switch. Then just protect and heal basically they kill themselves.
Pokemon @ Leftovers
EVS: 252 HP / Rest in Defenses
Defense Raising Nature
-Torment
-Protect
-Healing Move
-Attack
With good prediction this would allow you to torment them if you can survive an attack or use torment on the switch. Then just protect and heal basically they kill themselves.
Wow, I thought it got it from Altaria... it gets DD from it. Anyways, I meant Power Herb, but it was really late when I wrote that : /
Nonetheless, you are effectively sacrificing one move and your item for a single use. Unless you use recycle,of course, but that would effectively make it a 2 turn move again, but with a storable 'charge'.
Well that makes things even better than they were and they were already quite nice to begin with.
I wouldn't say it's strictly better. Torment has 100% accuracy and doesn't require your opponent to have already used an attack. It also doesn't end after a period of time, although Disable usually lasts long enough anyhow. Also, a lot of Pokémon learn Torment and not Disable.
Skill Swap forces you to take your opponent's ability and doesn't prevent the usage of Rest. It also doesn't affect Pokémon with Truant, so a Slaking switching in can't get a boost. Again, there are also many Pokémon that learn Worry Seed but not Skill Swap.
I agree that Heal Block isn't worth the slot. It might be worth it in doubles, but only because it hits both opponents.
OK, this is the one I'm curious about. I am not aware of any trait that Gastro Acid doesn't suppress.
I think the power cap is 121, but it still lacks power.
I don't think Razor Wind gives a stat boost.
CardsOfTheHeart's formula is the more recent one, and I believe the correct one.
I apologize for picking on your post specifically. You just had a good list that made for convenient quoting.
OK, for the last time, this is a bug in Shoddy. I have personally used Gastro Acid on a Wobbuffet and switched out the very next round.
Gastro Acid is almost strictly better for this purpose.
Not really. Skill Swapping a good trait To Slaking/Regigigas can make them even tougher and allows thier ability to be transfered to a foe. It really comes down to the individual's team.
I don't think any ability affecting moves affect Multi Type pokemon.
I don't think any ability affecting moves affect Multi Type pokemon.
Yeah, except after your Skill Swapper gets Truant, it always loses its next turn. Then you have to spend another round swapping it onto your foe, an effect that ends as soon as they switch. All this to cripple an opponent that your Slaking or Regigigas should be pounding into the ground anyhow.
You're right that giving Slaking or Regigigas a good trait can be beneficial, but in most circumstances I'd rather not lose that turn to Skill Swap. I'd rather stick with Gastro Acid Shuckle so that I can start using Helping Hand on the next turn.
Jirachi might be pretty good for this job. besides, most people expect it to be a wish passer anyhow.
I love low kick on Electivire as well. It hits Blissey and Umbreon for less (I believe it still OHKOs Weavile), but hits basically everything else that's relevant at equal or greater power, with better accuracy and better PP (Flinch chance basically offsets the Crit chance of Cross-Chop).
Other things I liked on that list, Magic Coat is fun, and Torment is underrated.
Secret Power is another great move that nobody has mentioned in this thread. 30% paralysis is a fairly unknown trait that this move carries... 70 power is decent too. It's on option over Body Slam for pokes with good 4th gen egg moves or 4th gen pokes who can't know Body Slam to begin with.
Other things I liked on that list, Magic Coat is fun, and Torment is underrated.
Secret Power is another great move that nobody has mentioned in this thread. 30% paralysis is a fairly unknown trait that this move carries... 70 power is decent too. It's on option over Body Slam for pokes with good 4th gen egg moves or 4th gen pokes who can't know Body Slam to begin with.
what about snatch? it steals a lot of commonly used attacks, stat upers like swords dance and calm mind, also a lot of supporting moves like aromatherapy, recover, roost, rest, substitute, etc.etc.etc.
Also many good pokes learn it like alakazam, breelom, gengar, blissey. any poke attempting to set up would be crippled by snatch giving you for free a stat boost, not to mention many walls that will be !$·!"·$ by snatch, anyone trying to recover off damage?, surprise! he heal your poke and he get nothing for his poke.
spiritomb might do a good job, with nice resistances and no weaknesses it could use snatch with impunity.
Also many good pokes learn it like alakazam, breelom, gengar, blissey. any poke attempting to set up would be crippled by snatch giving you for free a stat boost, not to mention many walls that will be !$·!"·$ by snatch, anyone trying to recover off damage?, surprise! he heal your poke and he get nothing for his poke.
spiritomb might do a good job, with nice resistances and no weaknesses it could use snatch with impunity.
Enough learn Disable to make it viable and Torment has to be used a whole turn in advance. The main thing though is if you throw in the Disable first then it cancels out your opponents turn and leaves them with 3 moves and with Choice users puts them into immediate struggle for 5-8 turns. Torment at most will annoy you and let choice users still attack a turn later.
Hypno and Banette are two of the big Skill Swappers out there and both pack Insomnia too. What exactly stops Slaking from benefitting from Insomnia as well? How much general usuage do you get out of turning a trait into insomnia vs taking their trait for your own usuage? Also name one NON-grass type that learns Worry Seed.
Only what I've heard other times beyond this thread that it does not effect Shadow Tag and Slow Start. Whether this is in game or a Shoddy glitch I don't know but according to you its Shoddy. But the Slow Start one I've heard was tested within the game and it caused Regigas to never regain its stats. Either way situational still stands, only 3 feasible users and its still not stopping traits that activate on entry.
I might been mixing up high crit rate with a high crit boost. I do know Skull Bash gives a defense boost though.
I'd think that was established by now.
I don't mind.
Snatch is a perfectly good move, just requires a large ammount of skill or luck to predict with. I used to run it on a offensive Umbreon with Baton Pass since most see it as setup fodder. But since it denies your opponent his turn the payoff is sometimes worth it.
I agree woth you garo, but snatch's terrific effects are offset by the large number of choice banders. Plus, correct me if i'm wrong but you can't snatch baton pass (it'd be great if you could).
I'm surprised people still go to this thread. Anywho, I decided to look into some more moves that most people might not expect.
Me First- Could prove potentially threatening, especially to an outraging garchomp, but only Lucario and Lickylicky can use this move efficiently.
Mud Sport- An interesting way to cushion thunderbolt for when you switch in Gyarados, and to a lesser extent, the bulky waters.
Recycle- The ability to reuse items is always a good thing. It's just too bad its effects don't extend to knock off.
Tailwind- A fascinating support move, and one usable by Suicune.
Gravity- Often overlooked, I realized its potential when I looked up Dusknoir and saw his 100 base attack and ability to use this move alongside earthquake.
Aqua Ring- Most people overlook this move for instant recovery, but Vaporeon can pass this to another tank, or perhaps choicebanders to grant them instant leftovers.
Focus Blast- With sturdy physical tanks all over, its nice to know that we have a fighting type move that's also special. Obviously Alakazam uses this move best, but Infernape can wield this move well(though you'd rather use close combat) Gengar can prove to be a surprise when your opponent switches in a steel type at you.
Discharge- In team fights this could be a deadly move, especially with Electivire as a partner.
Drain Punch- I used this move against a blissey with a dying breloom, and it immediately brought the sucker back to life.
Elemental Fangs- These moves are potentially dangerous, especially for those who still use Flichmence. (Thunder fang proved deadly when it took out Starmie)
Fling-Though it may be unwise to throw away your items in battle, combined with recycle it could be dangerous.
Comet Punch/Double hit/ Other moves like it- Combine this with metronome and techinician and could prove deadly.
If you folks find any of these moves out of place, please reply.
Me First- Could prove potentially threatening, especially to an outraging garchomp, but only Lucario and Lickylicky can use this move efficiently.
Mud Sport- An interesting way to cushion thunderbolt for when you switch in Gyarados, and to a lesser extent, the bulky waters.
Recycle- The ability to reuse items is always a good thing. It's just too bad its effects don't extend to knock off.
Tailwind- A fascinating support move, and one usable by Suicune.
Gravity- Often overlooked, I realized its potential when I looked up Dusknoir and saw his 100 base attack and ability to use this move alongside earthquake.
Aqua Ring- Most people overlook this move for instant recovery, but Vaporeon can pass this to another tank, or perhaps choicebanders to grant them instant leftovers.
Focus Blast- With sturdy physical tanks all over, its nice to know that we have a fighting type move that's also special. Obviously Alakazam uses this move best, but Infernape can wield this move well(though you'd rather use close combat) Gengar can prove to be a surprise when your opponent switches in a steel type at you.
Discharge- In team fights this could be a deadly move, especially with Electivire as a partner.
Drain Punch- I used this move against a blissey with a dying breloom, and it immediately brought the sucker back to life.
Elemental Fangs- These moves are potentially dangerous, especially for those who still use Flichmence. (Thunder fang proved deadly when it took out Starmie)
Fling-Though it may be unwise to throw away your items in battle, combined with recycle it could be dangerous.
Comet Punch/Double hit/ Other moves like it- Combine this with metronome and techinician and could prove deadly.
If you folks find any of these moves out of place, please reply.
