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Unofficial UUs (Read Post #13) (don't post bugs here)
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Ideally we'd want a separate discussion thread, considering this is also the thread for Doubles UU, LC UU and UUbers, but seeing as how those metagames aren't exactly on and popping, I don't see any problem using this thread. The only downside is if you want discussion to continue across months, since I'll be starting a new thread with each UU update.
I'd assume, that the UU initial banlist will be subject to change, as OU continues to develop? Bisharp and Latias are two at the moment OU-mons, that have significantly risen in usage, and most likely shall this be also true for Keldeo, Deo-D, and Deo-S (who will get suspected in OU lol) On the other hand, things like Salamence and Galvantula are declining in usage even in these early three months.
I'm at the moment very fascinated and at the same time, terrified of what UU will become. I hear a lot of talk about Gen 6 UU being like Gen 5 OU, and it looks to be that way. At the moment, all four weathers are unofficially viable in UU. Rain and Sun look to be the scariest of them all - Rain first and foremost because of Drizzleswim. Sun lost Venusaur, but it has a plethora of Fire-types that will benefit massively, and a few Chlorophyll sweepers that will probably be viable (Sawsbuck, Victreebel...) OU is losing several of its dragons - Hydreigon and Haxorus was already in danger of falling last gen, but Latias and Kyurem-B (are you serious come on) and perhaps even Salamence will be totally new and unexpected. At the same time, it has lost Metagross and Magnezone - I'm not sure, if DragMag in UU is something I'm ready to witness.
I'm at the moment very fascinated and at the same time, terrified of what UU will become. I hear a lot of talk about Gen 6 UU being like Gen 5 OU, and it looks to be that way. At the moment, all four weathers are unofficially viable in UU. Rain and Sun look to be the scariest of them all - Rain first and foremost because of Drizzleswim. Sun lost Venusaur, but it has a plethora of Fire-types that will benefit massively, and a few Chlorophyll sweepers that will probably be viable (Sawsbuck, Victreebel...) OU is losing several of its dragons - Hydreigon and Haxorus was already in danger of falling last gen, but Latias and Kyurem-B (are you serious come on) and perhaps even Salamence will be totally new and unexpected. At the same time, it has lost Metagross and Magnezone - I'm not sure, if DragMag in UU is something I'm ready to witness.
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Riolu is now in LC UU. Seems like it can be a threat there, with things that much less bulky due to the biggest threats being banned now. It could probably sweep decently well with priority Drain Punch, Crunch, whatever other coverage move, or whatever move the opponent uses.
Regular UU has several threats, including Kyurem-B, Hydreigon, Zygarde, Hippowdon, Politoed, Ninetales. Don't forget the pokemon lowest in usage stats that still has above a 0% chance when factoring in floating-point precision errors, Tranquil, followed by Exeggcute and Ekans.
Useage stats seem to hint that Aron is as good as Combusken, Emboar, and Rotom. Also, Delibird is as good as Dendenne. All of those are higher than Sawk.
Regular UU has several threats, including Kyurem-B, Hydreigon, Zygarde, Hippowdon, Politoed, Ninetales. Don't forget the pokemon lowest in usage stats that still has above a 0% chance when factoring in floating-point precision errors, Tranquil, followed by Exeggcute and Ekans.
Useage stats seem to hint that Aron is as good as Combusken, Emboar, and Rotom. Also, Delibird is as good as Dendenne. All of those are higher than Sawk.
Delibird got a surprisingly large amount of usage (read: any) on Christmas.
I don't see pokemon like Salamance, Magnezone or Hydreigon lasting long in UU, the are still genuine threats in OU, we may see Frosslass back into UU with the defog buff really hurting its viability as a spikes setter. Might I inquire as to why Sabelye is banned? I don't see it gaining anything it had last gen except the buff to WoW accuracy but that's hardly enough to make it OU
Sableye actually had enough usage to be OU
| 49 | Sableye | 3.787% |
My guess that it was mainly because of Mega Kangaskhan, and now that it's banned, Sableye will probably drop. These stats are still pretty unstable and I wouldn't expect Sableye to be OU for long.
Arcticblast - I'm making a separate discussion thread when the Beta ladder actually goes live.
Arcticblast edit: Someone didn't read post 13...
I'm going to have to say I really disagree with the process of assuming mons are broken then essentially testing for whether people prefer a metagame with them legal or not.
Inherently by banning them straight up, people are going to want to keep them banned. It's always much more difficult to get something unbanned than it is to ban something, because the burden of proof should generally be on the people wanting to remove something from the game, not the people who want to keep a native part of the game.
It'd be like if we banned scald right away, it'd be extremely hard to argue for it to be legal when people would just counter with "It adds nothing besides burn hax, and forces every bulky water that learns it to run it". They're assuming a meta without the risk of burn is superior, when the meta with scald is perfectly fine as there are a variety of ways to handle it.
If we ban stuff like chansey or Thundurus-T right away (not including kyurem-B with them, that thing's obviously fucking broken rofl), even if there are plenty of ways to handle them, it's going to be much harder to convince people to play a meta with them legal, as they're another threat to be taken into account that people won't want to have to deal with. (can force major team building changes, which people won't like even if the new meta would still be balanced)
I guess hopefully after a month of playing with everything, people won't want to ban all the top mons, but bandwagons are pretty strong lol
I'm going to have to say I really disagree with the process of assuming mons are broken then essentially testing for whether people prefer a metagame with them legal or not.
Inherently by banning them straight up, people are going to want to keep them banned. It's always much more difficult to get something unbanned than it is to ban something, because the burden of proof should generally be on the people wanting to remove something from the game, not the people who want to keep a native part of the game.
It'd be like if we banned scald right away, it'd be extremely hard to argue for it to be legal when people would just counter with "It adds nothing besides burn hax, and forces every bulky water that learns it to run it". They're assuming a meta without the risk of burn is superior, when the meta with scald is perfectly fine as there are a variety of ways to handle it.
If we ban stuff like chansey or Thundurus-T right away (not including kyurem-B with them, that thing's obviously fucking broken rofl), even if there are plenty of ways to handle them, it's going to be much harder to convince people to play a meta with them legal, as they're another threat to be taken into account that people won't want to have to deal with. (can force major team building changes, which people won't like even if the new meta would still be balanced)
I guess hopefully after a month of playing with everything, people won't want to ban all the top mons, but bandwagons are pretty strong lol
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I disagree, since the suspect test philosophy has always been that you only ban something if it's broken in the metagame, and there would be the suspect test period to realize whether there are ways to deal with anything. Last gen OU unbanned Kyurem-B, who would have expected that they would actually do that for a 700 BST pokemon?
Wait, Keldeo is UU. WTF people. There was a time when Keldeo was suspected for ubers, and now it has usage below bisharp. Wow. Latias should be seeing lots of usage because of the defog buff, but evidently not... Terrakion is scarily close to UU as well. Hydreigon was in UU for a short amount of time last gen, it's not too surprising but will probably go BL. Kyurem B doesn't surprise me at all, despite having godly stats, it has an awful movepool and poor typing (that crippling stealth rock weakness). But in UU, that think would be plain derp I imagine. Maybe not... I guess we'll see.
More to the point, that method sounds really awesome kokoloko, I think that will be a really good way of testing. Can't wait for UU beta!
More to the point, that method sounds really awesome kokoloko, I think that will be a really good way of testing. Can't wait for UU beta!
And for those who want to see the other side of the spectrum here's a fine replay.Let me quickly summarize UU for those who haven't gotten to experience this lovely meta:
Why do you say that ? Maybe Gen VI UU will be Gen V OU, and Gen VI RU will become Gen 5 UU and that's all
Keldeo is not actually all that odd you have to remember with the advent of Fairy types you suddenly have Azumaril as a solid counter to Keldeo's STABs, and inadvertently becoming a liability since you don't want to give Azu the opportunity to set up or just wreaking havoc with CB Aqua Jet/Play rough. Then you also have Kiss who is bulky as hell and can easily take a hit. The final nail in the coffin comes in the form of Mega Venusaur or the priority flying type running around in OU... We're not even considering that rain has been nerfed, and indirectly his ability to spam high powered hydro pumps. He really has gotten the short end of the stick this generation, gaining new counters or checks and being nerfed (special nerfs to BP of Hydro Pump plus infinite weather gone).
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You know who kicks ass right now?
Florges.
Easily walls Kingdra, Keldeo, Thundurus-T, and Latias, and checks Kyurem-B, Manaphy, and basically any other Special attacker in the tier. Wish + Protect isn't the best recovery but it still works wonders, and Moonblast is great coming off of a base 112 Special Attack stat. Here is a replay where I didn't do too hot early in the battle but then survived an attack on a 70% chance and basically ended the game with Florges. Use this thing.
I named Keldeo and Latias on that team "BAN ME," but it's possible that UU Keldeo won't be too bad. Keldeo has several checks in Slowking, Florges, Celebi, Latias, and Jellicent at the moment, and the raw power of Mega Tyranitar's Pursuit is absent to trap and kill them. We do have Bisharp, but Bisharp isn't exactly the greatest Choice Band user and Pursuit can fill up its slots a little faster than it should.
Florges.
Easily walls Kingdra, Keldeo, Thundurus-T, and Latias, and checks Kyurem-B, Manaphy, and basically any other Special attacker in the tier. Wish + Protect isn't the best recovery but it still works wonders, and Moonblast is great coming off of a base 112 Special Attack stat. Here is a replay where I didn't do too hot early in the battle but then survived an attack on a 70% chance and basically ended the game with Florges. Use this thing.
I named Keldeo and Latias on that team "BAN ME," but it's possible that UU Keldeo won't be too bad. Keldeo has several checks in Slowking, Florges, Celebi, Latias, and Jellicent at the moment, and the raw power of Mega Tyranitar's Pursuit is absent to trap and kill them. We do have Bisharp, but Bisharp isn't exactly the greatest Choice Band user and Pursuit can fill up its slots a little faster than it should.
Based on that replay I wouldn't say Florges necessarily easily walls offensive Latias carrying Psyshock since it does hit it on the other end of the spectrum. Then again from that replay it does look like Latias is definitely the one of the most suspect worthy things so its not exactly to the demerit of Florges XD. Though I didn't realize Entei was UU...
Bull. UU cannot even dream of handling Deoxys S, Hydreigon, Latias, Keldeo, there is a huge list of things that are way too good for UU. Deoxys S is possibly the best hazard setter out there and its UU. Im not even gonna bother playing UU. I dont see why some of these pokemon were not used. Latias is A+ Rank in OU and i think Deoxys S is S. UU this gen has falen inot peril.
Now that I've tried both Ninetales and Politoed in UU, I feel like they're a lot more balanced and a lot less broken than I had given them credit for. True, that may well be because of the sheer amount of overpowered OU drops in UU ATM but the weather nerf, although no too much of a problem for really offensive Pokemon such as Kingdra and Darmanitan, does force you team to go all-out hyper offensive, which limits teambuilding. Maybe weather inducers will become a staple of UU after all.
Not Chansey, though. That should NOT be allowed.
I guess we'll have to wait for the tiers to settle down and the overpowered stuff to get banned in order to reach for a conclusion.
Not Chansey, though. That should NOT be allowed.
I guess we'll have to wait for the tiers to settle down and the overpowered stuff to get banned in order to reach for a conclusion.
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