Unpopular opinions

ooh and unpopular opinions thread

The 3D models in Gen 6 and Gen 7 are awful and a huge step down from the sprites in Gens 3, 4, and 5. The models look super lifeless that in most cases barely move and what animation they do have is further hurt by the reused animation cycles that multiple species share. They do a good job of emulating the official art style, but other than that just absolutely lack any sense of personality at all. They just stand/float there and stare blankly forward.

Entry hazards are broken, but they're broken in a way people like so we keep them.

Gen 6 was a rushed mess that feels like a half finished game that doesn't capitalize on its "Pokefrance" theme by having like, just two vaguely French inspired areas.

"Friendly" rivals are far more interesting than the "Carbon copy of Blue/Green/Gary" rivals that people keep asking for. They fit better in the narrative themes that Pokemon tries to encourage regarding bonds and friendship. One dimensional assholes who only exist for you to hate them so you feel good about yourself are both boring and don't motivate me to beat them. Even back in GSC, Silver was a far more interesting rival because he was actually a character, not a punching bag with a frowny face drawn on it. You still wanted to beat him, but he was also still a person. There's reasons to want to beat people other than you don't like them and it fosters an unhealthy attitude to see anyone who competes with you as just someone to beat down with no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
 

Ryota Mitarai

Shrektimus Prime
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The comment above about friendly rivals and some talk about bosses inspired me to think about this:

I think the games need more anti-villains. In case someone doesn't know, that's someone with "good" goals but the character achieves them in a "bad" way. The character I think of when thinking about anti-villains is N. He fits a lot an anti-villain; in my opinion, he never wanted to liberate Pokemon, he just wanted them to be safe. However, in order for them to be safe, he thought __liberating them__ was the way. It's clear that he's an anti-villain: He doesn't necessarily dislike the protagonist (in fact, he likes them and considers them their friend). He shares his love for Pokemon with the protagonist, but his views are different from his/hers, which makes them enemies by extension. Of course, making Pokemon safe is a good thing. Liberating them from trainers that actually love them is the bad thing here.
 
You know what really irks me on this? The Pokemon Company and GameFreak actually knows about the similarity between Gen 6 and 7 and how are they competitively similar. In any other format of the cartridge ladders, you can use any Pokemon as long as its from Gen 6 or 7. Yet, the VGC ladder doesn't allow that. The ORAS ladder did something similar, with only Pokemon obtainable from Gen 6 being allowed to be used. GF and the Pokemon company truly know that Pokemon from Gen 6 and 7 are identical in competitive battling, bar a few things like Hone Claws Zekrom and Z-Dig Leafeon, there's not any significant differences, not to mention those examples are very niche. Yet, the notion is still you must have your Pokemon in that gen, despite there being no significant difference between the two.
Given that gen 7 overcorrected for a lot of gen 6's mistakes, I strongly suspect that this was done purely to exclude Power-Up Punch Kangaskhan from VGC.

Speaking of that move, Marshadow really ought to get it. It's not like they cared about balancing it as it is, and it would possibly be the best user of the move in the game other than M-Kang if it actually learned it.
 
Even back in GSC, Silver was a far more interesting rival because he was actually a character, not a punching bag with a frowny face drawn on it. You still wanted to beat him, but he was also still a person.
And even then Silver is a pretty borderline case as what makes him different from Blue (namely, his change in heart) only happens late-game. But still better than Blue "I'm a jerk for no real reason" Oak.
 
And even then Silver is a pretty borderline case as what makes him different from Blue (namely, his change in heart) only happens late-game. But still better than Blue "I'm a jerk for no real reason" Oak.
Is he a jerk for no real reason, though? He's the player's childhood rival, so I see most of his interactions as knowing what buttons to push to egg his rival on to give chase. Might just be me who thinks this, though.

But if we're only going to have "friendly" rivals from now on, can we at least have ones of Cheren's caliber? I liked Hau and all, but he's not much of a rival when he'd rather be stuffing his face with malasada most of the time.
 
Yay, unpopular opinion time! Here are just a few of mine.

Ice types should have a 1.5x defense boost in hail along with an ice-type healing move similar to synthesis (restores more in hail).
100% accurate blizzard is not enough, imo. Ice types are unpopular defensive types to play because they have so many weaknesses and not enough resistances. This will also help make hail a little more viable and give ice more defensive options.

There should be more ways to get rid of stealth rock and/or a nerf to the move.
Ok so maybe this one is a bit more popular but I think the fact that stealth rock absolutely decimates a lot of pokemon who already didn't have a big chance to begin with (RIP Masquerain) sucks and centralizes the meta too much. I don't mind it being a thing, but I think it's too powerful as it is. Make rock types be able to remove it upon entry or reduce the damage it deals- something.

I think Pokemon could use another game like XD/Colosseum.
The grittiness and mature themes of Colosseum and XD were really unique and interesting. I would definitely like to visit that again especially with the new capabilities of the switch. Shadow Pokemon were challenging to catch at times and it allowed you to play through the game with Pokemon that aren't normally used as well.

There shouldn't be any more remakes, at least for a long while, and future remakes should instead be re-visitations to the region with unique stories.
New regions, new pokemon, new ideas, new everything please. I don't want to play the same game I've played before with minor updates. I think a good model for this would be like how BW and BW2 differed. Same region, different experience with some continuity. I know BW2 was a sequel rather than a remake but in general this model is good to me.

Pokemon games should have difficulty modes unlocked from the start.
I want more of a challenge, please!

Delta Pokemon should be a thing.
I would be so happy to see this, especially in the way that Pokemon Insurgence did. Alola forms were well received, and I think this would be a cool implementation to continue that legacy.

That's all I've post for now, but I'll try and think of some others to add down the line.
 
I think the Pokémon Tower and Silph Co encounters are a little troubling, showing his irreverence towards both the concept of death and hostile takeovers with human hostages.

How he speaks about the player can be construed as him just pushing your buttons and poking fun, but those interactions are a bit more ‘yikes’ for me. The Tower dialogue can maybe be explained away as him just being kinda callous and tactless, but he literally waits at Silph Co to battle you, without seeming to have helped the employees at all, and then immediately leaves once you beat him.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
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Feel like the "symbol" system to decide battle-ready competitive Pokemon is really dumb. I get pre-6 everyone was hacking or whatever but now its constantly breed over and over unless you play showdown.
Yeah, I think it was a bad idea to make a new "symbol" for Gen VII. Made sense for Gen VI as they wanted to wipe the slate clean and they released Pokemon Bank. But why do it for Gen VII? It should only be done when they want to do another big slate wipe, which itself shouldn't need to be done for a few more generations (if ever again). OR at the very least, if a Pokemon doesn't have the "right" symbol, instead of outright banning it they should be sent through a filter to check to see if it had anything that isn't approved of, if it doesn't then there should be no problem using it (and if there is tell what the problem is so that it can be potentially fixed).

The 3D models in Gen 6 and Gen 7 are awful and a huge step down from the sprites in Gens 3, 4, and 5. The models look super lifeless that in most cases barely move and what animation they do have is further hurt by the reused animation cycles that multiple species share. They do a good job of emulating the official art style, but other than that just absolutely lack any sense of personality at all. They just stand/float there and stare blankly forward.

Entry hazards are broken, but they're broken in a way people like so we keep them.

Gen 6 was a rushed mess that feels like a half finished game that doesn't capitalize on its "Pokefrance" theme by having like, just two vaguely French inspired areas.

"Friendly" rivals are far more interesting than the "Carbon copy of Blue/Green/Gary" rivals that people keep asking for. They fit better in the narrative themes that Pokemon tries to encourage regarding bonds and friendship. One dimensional assholes who only exist for you to hate them so you feel good about yourself are both boring and don't motivate me to beat them. Even back in GSC, Silver was a far more interesting rival because he was actually a character, not a punching bag with a frowny face drawn on it. You still wanted to beat him, but he was also still a person. There's reasons to want to beat people other than you don't like them and it fosters an unhealthy attitude to see anyone who competes with you as just someone to beat down with no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
Model Pose: I too hope they decide, even if it's only for the Pokemon in the regional dex, to give the models more dynamic poses. I get it for Gen 6, they had to transition all the Pokemon to 3D models, but they should now focus on giving them some life. And even if they recycle certain animations (like I imagine a lot of the quadruped Pokemon sharing a crouched-down-ready-to-pounce pose), as long as it's a dynamic pose I think it would be forgiven.

Broken Hazard: I think only Stealth Rock is that broken, and that's because it can remove 50% HP of a Pokemon quad weak to Rock. I think if they made it so a Pokemon can at most only receive 25% damage from Stealth Rocks it'll be more balanced. Also maybe have more ways to get rid of hazards.

Foreign Point Of View: It was discussed a while ago, but it was pointed out how, despite them basing regions on other locations outside of Japan, GF still has a very Japanese centric view of things. This can be seen in Unova with it being a hodgepodge of cultures (while true New York is a melting pot, they still had locations like the Abundant Shrine which was very Japanese), in Kalos with a lot of Lumiose City being tourist attractions, and in Alola where they HEAVILY leaned on its relation to Kanto. Sure, you do see bits and pieces of those locations culture, but at the same time it does feel you're only seeing it from a tourist point of view rather then from someone who lives in the region. And it feels like this is by choice, like GF doesn't want to really dive into the regions culture besides on a surface level (unless its a Japanese-based region); even though the Pokemon Company has international offices GF itself is still a very Japanese-run company and doesn't really employ non-Japanese people (or at least those who don't speak Japanese).

Middle Rival: Once again, it's not like I don't like the friendly rivals or want a jerk rival specifically, but we've had like 4 gens in a row where the rivals were your best bud and it's kind of getting tiring. And yes they try to make them all different, having their own goals and development, but one aspect that doesn't change is they see you as a best friend. Would just like to see a rival who, while friendly, only considers you as a "friend they know" or even just an acquaintance (not exactly a friend but no one you have any ill will against). Like the rival just meets you as both of your are getting your first Pokemon and they're here with a mission/goal/assignment/dream/etc. that doesn't really involve you but it's nice to have someone to compare their strength against. While this sounds cold, it all depends on the personality given to this rival. For example, recently they finally gave Green her own character in Let's Go... and she's quite the strange one. We only meet her for a short time: she wanted to catch Mewtwo but you beat her to it. You two have a battle, you beat her, and afterwards she takes an "interest" in you, saying she wants to catch you and starts chucking Poke Balls until running away laughing (yes, she does this even if you're playing as the girl). VERY quirky, now imagine if she was the type of rival I described, with her goal being to catch interesting and unique Pokemon and seeing you as a way to test these Pokemon. You're not exactly friends, but you're on friendly terms at least and she has her own story she'll develop through.
Or hey, another interesting rival idea I thought about: what if you could "create" your on rival. Now this could be done in a number of ways, if they want to go all in on the concept you pretty much create your rival as you do creating your character, and that would include their personality (maybe not a binary "jerk" or "friendly" option but maybe have multiple options that'll shape their interactions). A less extreme version is just letting your interactions with a rival determine how their relation to you develops, though this may require more work as they'd need to give you plenty of opportunities for each rival.

I think the games need more anti-villains. In case someone doesn't know, that's someone with "good" goals but the character achieves them in a "bad" way. The character I think of when thinking about anti-villains is N. He fits a lot an anti-villain; in my opinion, he never wanted to liberate Pokemon, he just wanted them to be safe. However, in order for them to be safe, he thought __liberating them__ was the way. It's clear that he's an anti-villain: He doesn't necessarily dislike the protagonist (in fact, he likes them and considers them their friend). He shares his love for Pokemon with the protagonist, but his views are different from his/hers, which makes them enemies by extension. Of course, making Pokemon safe is a good thing. Liberating them from trainers that actually love them is the bad thing here.
Well Archie, Maxie, and Lysandre were sort of anti-villains.

Archie and Maxie saw a problem in the world (though whether it actually existed is up to debate) and sought to change it for the betterment of everyone (or Pokemon in Archie's case and humans in Maxie's case)... however their idea of fixing it was extremist and so made them into environmental terrorists. Archie and Maxie also didn't hate the player, infact they kind of liked the player's spunk though never took them as a serious threat (and eventually saw them as the only one who could save the day).

Lysandre, despite his elitism which he may not be aware of having even, went down a slippery slope of morality where he somehow concluded the world was heading for economic disaster because he saw there were too many people needing things and not enough people sharing. Despite being one of if not the most richest man in Kalos, no matter how much he donated to public relief programs, there was always people suffering and no one else seemingly wanted to do anything about it. He became bitter toward humanity and, afraid this would eventually lead to resources drying up and people fighting over what remains, decided to cull humanity for people who believed worthy of living forever and killing everyone else; betterment for the planet and who remained. Lysandre's relation to the player is also a bit complex, constantly giving the player chances to stop him. I think Lysandre desperately wants to be proven wrong, wants the player character to stop him and show there's hope for everyone and the world isn't heading for ruin... but at this point he's too paranoid to accept the opportunities to give up and so keeps on taking back his word until he's been finally beaten down (and even then he does on last ditch effort by firing the Ultimate Weapon).

I guess you could maybe count Colress here too? He's not here for the villainy, he's here pretty much for unrestrained science to study the potential within Pokemon.

However everyone else was pretty villainous: Giovanni is a mob boss obsessed with power, Cyrus wished to reset the universe and erase it of emotion while he ruled it like a god, Ghetsis is a manipulative and cruel sociopath who wants to take over the world, Guzma is rebelling against Alola's traditions by being violent and disrespectful, and Lusamine is insane (at least in SM, I guess you could say she is sort of an anti-villain in USUM but she's still a terrible person).

Is he a jerk for no real reason, though? He's the player's childhood rival, so I see most of his interactions as knowing what buttons to push to egg his rival on to give chase. Might just be me who thinks this, though.
No, I think that too to an extent. I think Blue feels entitled, being the grandson of the great Professor Oak, so he definitely has an ego and maybe superiority complex. He wants to prove he's the best, but how can you do that without anyone to challenge you on your level? That's where the player comes in, childhood friends, you two have probably been competing with each other since you both were in diapers so he knows what to do to get you motivated to provide him a challenge. Now, there is still selfishness in this and I feel its a disservice to the character to try and push it off as friendly jibing (this would explain his actions in the Pokemon Tower and Silph Co., what was going on isn't his problem (which Let's Go tried to undo SO hard)). However there's no hatred in what he does, and does take it to heart when you finally beat him (or rather when Professor Oak comes in and tells him where he went wrong in his training). And proof of that is when we see him in future games, notably in HGSS where you can get a call from him on your PokeGear where he reminisce about his battle with Red and wonders where he is now, and then in Gen VII where both he and Red are leaders of the Battle Tree and are acting as old friends.

Ice types should have a 1.5x defense boost in hail along with an ice-type healing move similar to synthesis (restores more in hail).
100% accurate blizzard is not enough, imo. Ice types are unpopular defensive types to play because they have so many weaknesses and not enough resistances. This will also help make hail a little more viable and give ice more defensive options.

There should be more ways to get rid of stealth rock and/or a nerf to the move.
Ok so maybe this one is a bit more popular but I think the fact that stealth rock absolutely decimates a lot of pokemon who already didn't have a big chance to begin with (RIP Masquerain) sucks and centralizes the meta too much. I don't mind it being a thing, but I think it's too powerful as it is. Make rock types be able to remove it upon entry or reduce the damage it deals- something.

I think Pokemon could use another game like XD/Colosseum.
The grittiness and mature themes of Colosseum and XD were really unique and interesting. I would definitely like to visit that again especially with the new capabilities of the switch. Shadow Pokemon were challenging to catch at times and it allowed you to play through the game with Pokemon that aren't normally used as well.

There shouldn't be any more remakes, at least for a long while, and future remakes should instead be re-visitations to the region with unique stories.
New regions, new pokemon, new ideas, new everything please. I don't want to play the same game I've played before with minor updates. I think a good model for this would be like how BW and BW2 differed. Same region, different experience with some continuity. I know BW2 was a sequel rather than a remake but in general this model is good to me.

Pokemon games should have difficulty modes unlocked from the start.
I want more of a challenge, please!

Delta Pokemon should be a thing.
I would be so happy to see this, especially in the way that Pokemon Insurgence did. Alola forms were well received, and I think this would be a cool implementation to continue that legacy.

That's all I've post for now, but I'll try and think of some others to add down the line.
Hail Ice: Kind of odd Hail doesn't do something for Ice-types like increasing the power of Ice-type moves. I question if a Defense boost would help, Ice got so many weaknesses at most it'll make the few might glaciers maybe able to take an extra hit. Think a power increase or maybe Speed increase would be a better option (I'd also say maybe making Ice-type moves have a higher chance of Freezing too). Ice-type Synthesis move could be helpful too, though honestly I think Ice-types really need more stronger Physical or utility moves.

Sneaky Pebbles: Talked about it above. I've debated with the idea of Rock-type removing it like Poison-types can do with Poison Spikes, or maybe having it only work a few times before "crumbling to pebbles" and needing Stealth Rock to be used again. However for now I think going slow with a decrease to damage done to quad weaknesses to see how that effects the metagame.

Orre Once More: Would love another Colosseum game too. But sadly chances are getting slimmer and slimmer. Main series games now have 3D models and are heading to home consoles now that the Switch has combined Nintendo's home console and handheld departments. Main series games are also having more and more story elements, some even dark story elements. Think the only way to get a Colosseum game is for them to actually make the next Gen take place in Orre and have its story revolve around starting a League there and the return of Cipher.

ReNew Not ReMake: I'm mixed on that. Now I ABSOLUTELY agree with this when it comes to the third version/second paired games. B2W2 showed us the potential of this and it's mind boggling despite that they went back to their old ways with USUM and, oh, it didn't turn out so good.
But for the remakes? Well for regions that haven't had remakes yet like Sinnoh & Unova I wouldn't mind if they retold the story BUT added onto what's there. However then we come to regions which had their remakes and, yeah, think they should do something new. Looking at you, Let's Go. Okay, sure, remaking Yellow was a more unique idea then base Red & Blue but still we've gone through this story already and the changes they did to it only confounds things (Let's Go has to take place in its own timeline so we know have three timelines, one which we're never going back to so why even have it... GAH!). Would have been neat if the Kanto remake took place at the same time or a bit after Gen II's storyline and let us visit Johto so we'd have two regions in one game again, but alas. Time will only tell if there will be a second Let's Go game and if they do the storyline for Crystal in that one (even though HGSS did combine Crystal story elements into itself so that's not needed... though they would have a case for Hoenn...).

Challenge Modes: Agreed. GF, B2W2's Challenge Modes didn't work not because no one wanted them, but because you first had to complete the game to get them and you made Easy Mode and Hard Mode version exclusives. WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?! Heck, you can just drop Easy Mode and only have a Hard Mode option we can select at the start of the game (or can switch on and off during the game, so many games letting you switch between difficulty levels nowadays).

Delta Species: I agree, though to an extent. Unless the game is taking place in Holon, I don't think the effect of the electromagnetic energy used that triggered the Delta Species in Holon would be as extreme there. If you look at a lot of Pokemon you can sort of see a "third or fourth" possible Type they could be, and I think that's what should be played upon. I think it would be more balanced and be easier to explain why a Pokemon can't just be any Type. Also, I think they could also potentially use this idea to do some other things, like maybe also actually giving a Pokemon a tertiary Typing or playing around with the Pokemon's color palette...
 
Yeah, Blue from the games isn't THAT jerkish. People are just conflating him with Gary from the anime, who WAS truly a jerk.
Well, at least during the time of Gen 1 they really were trying to put the anime and games on the same level. Pokemon Yellow is proof of that. It seems laughable now but during the late 90's not so much.

That and RBY games Blue may not have been a jerk but he was a dick.
1. Choosing a starter specifically to have an advantage over yours. Other rivals did this, but Blue admits it as his motivation.
2. Refusing to share his Town Maps with you. Luckily his sister isn't so stingy.
3. Probably stole HM01: Cut. The Captain was basically giving them out for free, but he was seasick at the time you enter so it's impossible Blue got permission.
4. Fighting you in a graveyard and showing massive disrespect for the dead, especially Cubone's mom.
5. Thwarting your Silph Co. liberation with a battle, not even caring about Team Rocket holding it hostage
6. Sticks around at the Pokemon League more or less just to rub it in your face.

And he's not that much better in the original G/S/C, being really sour about losing to Red and dismisses the Johto gym leaders as pathetic.


Admittedly I like Gary/Blue just because he's such an over-the-top bully that's too ridiculous to not like. I mean, the guy says goodbye with a "smell you later." No matter what, you just can't make that cool.

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But man did the nerd try really really hard.

And lest we forget, at the time Ash himself was not a paragon and could be pretty jerkish himself.

So SAVAGE.

One more that isn't Misty related


I'm half tempted to do a mega-post over all the rivals, and still might do it eventually, but I think most people are against friendly rivals because the first one, R/S/E Brendan and May, was pretty pathetic. After Lillycove they just gave up, not exactly a good first impression for the new status quo. Gary/Blue was at least entertainingly dickish, and finished their journey.

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Personally I feel Hugh is an archetype rival worth returning to, as he's pretty much our anti-hero rival (unless Gladion counts). Motivated by revenge, friendly to you but hostile to all of Plasma, respects his pokemon but still sees gyms and training as just steps to defeat team Plasma and reclaim his sister's pokemon, and battles you more as sparring practice. Then he gets a couple of humbling moments that flip his worldview and he has to learn and deal with it. Hugh's underrated.


I think Pokemon could use another game like XD/Colosseum.
The grittiness and mature themes of Colosseum and XD were really unique and interesting. I would definitely like to visit that again especially with the new capabilities of the switch. Shadow Pokemon were challenging to catch at times and it allowed you to play through the game with Pokemon that aren't normally used as well.
Prefacing this by saying I too would like another Colosseum/XD style game, as the "all double battles," limited pokemon available, and higher level curve made the games a unique challenge for this series. And I also liked the western-punk atmosphere.

But mature is hardly the word I'd use for them, unless you mean mature like my 6th-grade Sonic OC's. (That's a lie, they were Bionicle OC's) They were "dark" in a try-hard middle school tween angst sort of way. The Gen 5 and Gen 7 games have more mature themes to them (execution debatable though).

I'd still welcome a return to Orre, land of the edgelords, though.
 
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Personally I feel Hugh is an archetype rival worth returning to, as he's pretty much our anti-hero rival (unless Gladion counts). Motivated by revenge, friendly to you but hostile to all of Plasma, respects his pokemon but still sees gyms and training as just steps to defeat team Plasma and reclaim his sister's pokemon, and battles you more as sparring practice. Then he gets a couple of humbling moments that flip his worldview and he has to learn and deal with it. Hugh's underrated.
I too really liked Hugh. It also helps that he has a pretty unique dynamic with the players.

To me, he wasn't a rival. He was the main character in the story and the player was his "attack dog" of sorts - consider the vast amount of times he fights the player of has the player fight alongside him to see if he/she was up to what he needs for his revenge mission.

Other rivals I liked:
- Barry, for being the rival I presume Blue was meant to be. Friendly but quite competitive, though he mellows out later in the game.
- Cheren and Bianca for providing different perspectives to the dream of being a Pokémon master. Cheren gives the very short-sighted dream (never considering what to do afterwards) and Bianca picking it to find something to do, only to later find she wasn't really made for it, but still uses her experience in another area.
- Hau in the Ultra games reminded me of Barry, at least when he wasn't gorging down in malasadas. Nice, fairly competitive and with a somber side behind him (his growing inferiority complex throughout the game). The much weaker base game self does not apply here, as he was easy to beat and as flat as a pancake.

I could add N to the list of rivals as he's to some extent the third rival in BW1, but his is a completely different story altogether. Same with Gladion, I can't put him on the same category either.

On the other hand:
- As I said, Blue was somewhat nasty (acting kind of like a bully even when defeated) and in the end he was all bark and no bite.
- Silver was kinda better as he shows character development, but that development is practically unused, even in the remakes - at that point, he practically vanishes from the plot. He could have been better.
- RSE was horrible at handling rivals. Outside of the surprise difficulty battle on your way to Mauville, Brendan/May are complete pushovers and give up after the first half of the game. Wally is somewhat like Silver in that he was underused, even in the remakes (his brutally sudden competitive streak in the ORAS post-game could have been put to better use).
- (Can't talk about the XY rivals, as I have yet to play those games)
- Trace in Let's Go is a vast improvement over Blue in personality and role in the games, ESPECIALLY at the Pokémon Tower... but he's as pathetic as him in battles. He makes a fine character, but a horrible competitor.
 
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- (Can't talk about the XY rivals, as I have yet to play those games)
Honestly there's nothing to talk about. Calem/Serena is arguably the blandest rival in the whole series, fighting with R/S/E Brendan/May for the title.

The first problem was that they had to share rival time with Shauna, Tierno, and Trevor, all being semi-rivals also of the friendly variety. And Pokemon stories are pretty shallow to begin with, so trying to divide that four ways with similar personalities is a disaster. They are all just so one-note (even their pokemon! Tierno's barely have movesets! His Roserade only knows Petal Dance!? CAUSE HE LIKES TO DANCE! THAT'S HIS ENTIRE CHARACTER!!!!!)

But adding to that, Calem/Serena have the personality of plain toast, pretty much going through the motions without any emotion at all. "Hey let's have a battle! Oh darn I lost. Okay bye!" Wash, rinse, and repeat.

There's a tiny scrap that Calem/Serena eventually get frustrated and disheartened by losing to you the player so much, but again this is tiny for Pokemon story standards so it's outright microscopic. Nothing ever comes of it save for two dialogue lines, max.

Adding insult to injury, Shauna of all characters is the one to get what little character depth is found in X/Y. She's basically a watered down Bianca, out for fun and memories but also out of her depth yet still trying. Yet she's the emotional one, so she's the one call out the villains on their deeds, help you despite not believing she's much use, and you get an honestly pretty cute sidequest of the two of you watching a fireworks show.

So I can totally understand why some fans are missing Gary/Blue or Silver after putting up rivals like these.
 
Honestly there's nothing to talk about. Calem/Serena is arguably the blandest rival in the whole series, fighting with R/S/E Brendan/May for the title.

The first problem was that they had to share rival time with Shauna, Tierno, and Trevor, all being semi-rivals also of the friendly variety. And Pokemon stories are pretty shallow to begin with, so trying to divide that four ways with similar personalities is a disaster. They are all just so one-note (even their pokemon! Tierno's barely have movesets! His Roserade only knows Petal Dance!? CAUSE HE LIKES TO DANCE! THAT'S HIS ENTIRE CHARACTER!!!!!)

But adding to that, Calem/Serena have the personality of plain toast, pretty much going through the motions without any emotion at all. "Hey let's have a battle! Oh darn I lost. Okay bye!" Wash, rinse, and repeat.

There's a tiny scrap that Calem/Serena eventually get frustrated and disheartened by losing to you the player so much, but again this is tiny for Pokemon story standards so it's outright microscopic. Nothing ever comes of it save for two dialogue lines, max.

Adding insult to injury, Shauna of all characters is the one to get what little character depth is found in X/Y. She's basically a watered down Bianca, out for fun and memories but also out of her depth yet still trying. Yet she's the emotional one, so she's the one call out the villains on their deeds, help you despite not believing she's much use, and you get an honestly pretty cute sidequest of the two of you watching a fireworks show.

So I can totally understand why some fans are missing Gary/Blue or Silver after putting up rivals like these.
That is giving those characters far too much credit. Caleb/Serena has the personality of ever so slightly toasted white bread - from the most generic brand you can think of at that. And having to share 98% of the spotlight with the wastes of pixels and writing potential we'll charitably call Tierno and Trevor doesn't help. Shauna has a couple of adorable moments, but she still ends up with all the personality of a limp, uncooked noodle...
 
Hail Ice: Kind of odd Hail doesn't do something for Ice-types like increasing the power of Ice-type moves. I question if a Defense boost would help, Ice got so many weaknesses at most it'll make the few might glaciers maybe able to take an extra hit. Think a power increase or maybe Speed increase would be a better option (I'd also say maybe making Ice-type moves have a higher chance of Freezing too). Ice-type Synthesis move could be helpful too, though honestly I think Ice-types really need more stronger Physical or utility moves.
It's really just another case of Ice-types getting the short end of the stick Gen after Gen. However, I see your suggestions and raise you one better: have Hail grant Ice-types Filter/Solid Rock effects while active. If the big problem with Ice-types (well, one of the biggest) is their numerous common weaknesses, mitigating that even a bit should help, plus it'll probably give more defensive synergy. Also, Ice could use more resistances (I'm thinking at least to Flying)

Sneaky Pebbles: Talked about it above. I've debated with the idea of Rock-type removing it like Poison-types can do with Poison Spikes, or maybe having it only work a few times before "crumbling to pebbles" and needing Stealth Rock to be used again. However for now I think going slow with a decrease to damage done to quad weaknesses to see how that effects the metagame.
I was gonna suggest the second bit as well (specifically, I was gonna have rocks dissipate after a single switch in, though that may be overkill), though I also advocate doing away with the extra/reduced damage for 4X weaknesses/resistances respectively. As it stands now, many Pokemon live or die on how weak they are to Rock types; not having to lose half their HP upon switching in would be a major boon to numerous otherwise-viable Pokemon, and of the whopping 6 Pokemon 4X resistant to Rock, only Alolan Diglett and Dugtrio would miss quad-reduced damage any.

Also, Rock might need a new type to resist it... if that's the case I suggest Grass.
 
Hail Ice: Kind of odd Hail doesn't do something for Ice-types like increasing the power of Ice-type moves. I question if a Defense boost would help, Ice got so many weaknesses at most it'll make the few might glaciers maybe able to take an extra hit. Think a power increase or maybe Speed increase would be a better option (I'd also say maybe making Ice-type moves have a higher chance of Freezing too). Ice-type Synthesis move could be helpful too, though honestly I think Ice-types really need more stronger Physical or utility moves.
It's really just another case of Ice-types getting the short end of the stick Gen after Gen. However, I see your suggestions and raise you one better: have Hail grant Ice-types Filter/Solid Rock effects while active. If the big problem with Ice-types (well, one of the biggest) is their numerous common weaknesses, mitigating that even a bit should help, plus it'll probably give more defensive synergy. Also, Ice could use more resistances (I'm thinking at least to Flying)
These are both good points. I think one of the problems with ice is that it used to be one of the best (or arguably the best) offensive type in that it was able to hit dragons when nothing else could, but now with fairies introduced ice isn't as important as before. If you have to pick if you want to hit stab ice for dragons or stab fairy, I'd say fairy is the choice most people would go for. So now we have a good offensive type but it's not what it used to be, and an absolutely horrible defensive type.

Defensively I'd like to see more options for ice type. I think boosting ice type defensively might help it offensively too (less reluctance to choose ice types because of poor defense means more ice moves being boosted by stab rather than just being coverage). If hail boosted defense, I think there'd be some cool offensive options with aurora veil for example. I do, however, also like the "filter" argument as well. I think it's pretty interesting. The reasoning could be something along the lines of "it's colder, so your ice is more durable and less likely to melt."

I also like utility moves being added to ice types. It would be cool if they got like, a ice equivalent of dragon dance/quiver dance.

Finally, if hail was to give a freeze boost (which would be cool because we rarely see freeze anyways) I think it might be good to add Sunny Day giving more a chance of thawing (maybe 50% instead of 20% or something).

Delta Species: I agree, though to an extent. Unless the game is taking place in Holon, I don't think the effect of the electromagnetic energy used that triggered the Delta Species in Holon would be as extreme there. If you look at a lot of Pokemon you can sort of see a "third or fourth" possible Type they could be, and I think that's what should be played upon. I think it would be more balanced and be easier to explain why a Pokemon can't just be any Type. Also, I think they could also potentially use this idea to do some other things, like maybe also actually giving a Pokemon a tertiary Typing or playing around with the Pokemon's color palette...
I would absolutely LOVE to see Holon as a region explored, even if it was sort of a "secondary" thing like the islands in the Kanto remakes.

Prefacing this by saying I too would like another Colosseum/XD style game, as the "all double battles," limited pokemon available, and higher level curve made the games a unique challenge for this series. And I also liked the western-punk atmosphere.

But mature is hardly the word I'd use for them, unless you mean mature like my 6th-grade Sonic OC's. (That's a lie, they were Bionicle OC's) They were "dark" in a try-hard middle school tween angst sort of way. The Gen 5 and Gen 7 games have more mature themes to them (execution debatable though).

I'd still welcome a return to Orre, land of the edgelords, though.
Ah yeah, true there were a lot of angsty things in there, especially Colosseum, that weren't really like the more mature themes explored in 5 and 7. I guess I mean to say that I like how in the games it seems like there are a lot of prominent adult characters and there was a more evident showcasing of how serious Cipher's actions were and the lengths they went through to achieve them (physical violence, money laundering, etc). I think themes from 5/7 combined with some executions of Colosseum/XD especially in terms of atmosphere which I think they did really well, would be really cool to see. And tbh I like when you can play a Pokemon game and NOT be a ten year old, so I guess for me I'd like that option again.
 
Broken Hazard: I think only Stealth Rock is that broken, and that's because it can remove 50% HP of a Pokemon quad weak to Rock. I think if they made it so a Pokemon can at most only receive 25% damage from Stealth Rocks it'll be more balanced. Also maybe have more ways to get rid of hazards.
Disagree. That 25% damage hits, and dramatically reduces the viability of, a LOT of Pokemon. And it's equal to max damage Spikes, which takes two more turns to set up. It would still be overpowered.

I think the problem of hazards being too important in singles needs to be addressed more fundamentally.
 
These are both good points. I think one of the problems with ice is that it used to be one of the best (or arguably the best) offensive type in that it was able to hit dragons when nothing else could, but now with fairies introduced ice isn't as important as before. If you have to pick if you want to hit stab ice for dragons or stab fairy, I'd say fairy is the choice most people would go for. So now we have a good offensive type but it's not what it used to be, and an absolutely horrible defensive type.

Defensively I'd like to see more options for ice type. I think boosting ice type defensively might help it offensively too (less reluctance to choose ice types because of poor defense means more ice moves being boosted by stab rather than just being coverage). If hail boosted defense, I think there'd be some cool offensive options with aurora veil for example. I do, however, also like the "filter" argument as well. I think it's pretty interesting. The reasoning could be something along the lines of "it's colder, so your ice is more durable and less likely to melt."

I also like utility moves being added to ice types. It would be cool if they got like, a ice equivalent of dragon dance/quiver dance.

Finally, if hail was to give a freeze boost (which would be cool because we rarely see freeze anyways) I think it might be good to add Sunny Day giving more a chance of thawing (maybe 50% instead of 20% or something).



I would absolutely LOVE to see Holon as a region explored, even if it was sort of a "secondary" thing like the islands in the Kanto remakes.


Ah yeah, true there were a lot of angsty things in there, especially Colosseum, that weren't really like the more mature themes explored in 5 and 7. I guess I mean to say that I like how in the games it seems like there are a lot of prominent adult characters and there was a more evident showcasing of how serious Cipher's actions were and the lengths they went through to achieve them (physical violence, money laundering, etc). I think themes from 5/7 combined with some executions of Colosseum/XD especially in terms of atmosphere which I think they did really well, would be really cool to see. And tbh I like when you can play a Pokemon game and NOT be a ten year old, so I guess for me I'd like that option again.
Strong sunlight already prevents a Pokemon from being frozen, and certain Fire moves will automatically thaw the user when used.
 
Disagree. That 25% damage hits, and dramatically reduces the viability of, a LOT of Pokemon. And it's equal to max damage Spikes, which takes two more turns to set up. It would still be overpowered.

I think the problem of hazards being too important in singles needs to be addressed more fundamentally.
Unfortunately it's not an issue in Gamefreak's eyes, as Stealth Rock (and entry hazards in general) isn't nearly as viable in VGC and Battle Spot singles.
 
Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee in my eyes was a waste of space that seems to have been made to cater to the older fans. I've always felt this catering in the past, what with Mega Evolutions being directed for a majority of the Gen 1 Pokemon and the Alolan formes only being from Kanto, but honestly he fact that they made yet ANOTHER kanto remake stands out as the worst genwunner catering. Look it guys, gen one just ain't that good, it's nostalgia talking.
 

BP

Upper Decky Lip Mints
is a Contributor to Smogon
I personally hated Pokemon LGPE just as much as I hated SUMO and USUM. They all sucked in my opinion.
 
Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee in my eyes was a waste of space that seems to have been made to cater to the older fans. I've always felt this catering in the past, what with Mega Evolutions being directed for a majority of the Gen 1 Pokemon and the Alolan formes only being from Kanto, but honestly he fact that they made yet ANOTHER kanto remake stands out as the worst genwunner catering. Look it guys, gen one just ain't that good, it's nostalgia talking.
I personally hated Pokemon LGPE just as much as I hated SUMO and USUM. They all sucked in my opinion.
These aren't exactly unpopular opinions, you know...
 
Given that gen 7 overcorrected for a lot of gen 6's mistakes, I strongly suspect that this was done purely to exclude Power-Up Punch Kangaskhan from VGC.

Speaking of that move, Marshadow really ought to get it. It's not like they cared about balancing it as it is, and it would possibly be the best user of the move in the game other than M-Kang if it actually learned it.
Oh, how could I forget that? Lol. Anyway, if exclusive moves are the issue, there should just be a ban list of moves that were allowed last gen, but are not in the latest gen, but, NO, GF and TPCI had to take the easy route.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
And he's not that much better in the original G/S/C, being really sour about losing to Red and dismisses the Johto gym leaders as pathetic.

(...)

...but I think most people are against friendly rivals because the first one, R/S/E Brendan and May, was pretty pathetic. After Lillycove they just gave up, not exactly a good first impression for the new status quo.

(...)

Personally I feel Hugh is an archetype rival worth returning to, as he's pretty much our anti-hero rival (unless Gladion counts). Motivated by revenge, friendly to you but hostile to all of Plasma, respects his pokemon but still sees gyms and training as just steps to defeat team Plasma and reclaim his sister's pokemon, and battles you more as sparring practice. Then he gets a couple of humbling moments that flip his worldview and he has to learn and deal with it. Hugh's underrated.
On the Gen II Blue point, while certainly seeming bitter about Red in GSC, HGSS did add a bit more to the context when in one of his PokeGear calls does wonder where Red is now and what he's doing, like a person who wonders how and what their old school friends are doing when they think back to those days. I think Blue is just putting up a jerk facade to make himself appear opposing. He doesn't call the Johto Gym Leaders weak out of the blue, but because you beat them. He's more trying to knock you down, but upon beating him he admits your strong which Gen I Blue wouldn't probably have done.

Wally picked up the rival role after Lilycove in the Hoenn games, ORAS really focusing on his development. But I don't think they're the reason people want to move on from friendly rivals. If there was any group who made people tired of friendly rivals it was probably the friends in XY. Trevor and Tierno are just there, Shauna probably gets the most development but it's not really because of you being rivals (and you battle her as often as Trevor and Tierno), and Serena/Calem you just feel sorry for beating constantly. The last point sort of continue with Hau and Trace, during the big major battles with them you kind of feel bad for beating them instead of satisfied you showed you were better then them. The games have come from facing bullies like Blue and Silver to making you the bully to rivals like Serena/Calem, Hau, and Trace.

I like Hugh though it's odd he's the rival since the story of B2W2 should honestly be his story. He's the one with a legitimate issue with Team Plasma as they stole his sister's Purrloin which she got from her grandfather and he's the one who grows through character growth realizing that not all members of the old Team Plasma are bad people and were just misguided/tricked. In a way he's sort of a foil to N. Yet it's the player who is the one N takes interest in and faces Colress & Ghetsis while Hugh has a BSOD moment when seeing the Purrloin evolved to a Liepard that's hostile. At least in SM, which was Lillie's story, Lillie couldn't battle so you had to be the muscle.

MOD EDIT: Reply to wishlisting deleted.
 
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