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Unpopular opinions

The most glaring issue HGSS has in my opinion is the level curve and how atrociously slow it is. We can thank Kanto's presence in these games for that, instead of extending the level curve into the 60s, 70s, and 80s to accommodate Kanto, they stretched a similar level curve to every other game across two entire regions.

I'm also not a big fan of how dead Kanto still is. I know G/S/C were so much worse (Kanto feels like Kanto from the Langoliers universe in those games, whereas it just feels like Kanto after the nuclear apocalypse and accompanying stock market crash in HGSS), but Kanto still feels largely depopulated and soulless compared to the games that actually feature it.

The Johto aesthetic has a ton of potential, and I genuinely think that Johto would benefit hugely from having a game that focuses purely on it and eschews Kanto entirely. Fix the level curve, write a better plot, put some of the post-game Kanto-only species like Houndour and Murkrow back into Johto, and maybe expand the map a little in the northwest part of the map (where HGSS plopped the Battle Frontier; we all know GameFreak is never making one of those again) to accommodate some new features.
 
I'm also not a big fan of how dead Kanto still is. I know G/S/C were so much worse (Kanto feels like Kanto from the Langoliers universe in those games, whereas it just feels like Kanto after the nuclear apocalypse and accompanying stock market crash in HGSS), but Kanto still feels largely depopulated and soulless compared to the games that actually feature it.
Man I remember this one town in Kanto (forgot which one) where a guy with his Machoke works on a field to build something. And they didn't have anything built in GSC/HGSS. Such a missed opportunity and a great anectode for Kanto in gen 2
 
Man I remember this one town in Kanto (forgot which one) where a guy with his Machoke works on a field to build something. And they didn't have anything built in GSC/HGSS. Such a missed opportunity and a great anectode for Kanto in gen 2

God, I remember that being another thing people were wild with theories about in the leadup to HGSS. People were speculating about a battle facility, a GTS, a new Safari Zone... then Serebii confirmed "the Machop is still building" and it all just died.

It's a development gag (quite literally). At least HGSS made it a place where you can farm valuable items.
 
I actually think that FRLG are the best Pokemon remakes because they're the only ones that actually improve well on what lacked in the original games

Lots of new content, many QoL features, nice details everywhere (like Koga's daughter chilling around)... HGSS didn't improve on any main issues, ORAS also didn't and has less content than Emerald and BDSP is BDSP

Now I get why you would prefer RBY over FRLG, the bugs are very fun and it's very charming, but I still think that FRLG are the only Pokemon remakes that are actually good remakes
Ironic, isn't it?

I agree. FRLG did a good job at actually doing what is expected of a remake. And yet I'd rather play the original. Kinda sad.
 
AZ%27s_Floette.png

A lot of people tend to think that AZ and his Floette are incomplete because AZ's Floette never fell into our hands. It has never made an official release to the player in any mainline Pokemon game. This was despite data for Floette-Eternal existing throughout all of the 3DS titles, Eternal Floette receiving a dex entry for USUM, and it having a unique signature move with visible updates in USUM. I'm here to claim that Gamefreak's failure to release AZ's Eternal Floette was a great thing that shows Gamefreak caring about the Pokemon lore at least somewhat.

Let me explain:
AZ was gifted a Floette from his mother when he was young. He loved this Floette very much and wanted to cherish it for the rest of his life. As far as we know, there was never any disconnection between AZ and his Floette during this time period. Unfortunately Kalos was in a war and Floette was forcibly taken by AZ's own soldiers to fight off in it. In the matter of years, AZ's Floette had died in that war. AZ was immensely overwhelmed with grief. He held upmost passion and love for the Pokemon while it was alive. He was willing to do anything he could just to be with it again... From there, he had an idea. AZ built a machine and used special stones around him to steal the life energy of countless Pokemon surrounding it. That load of life energy was then used to power-up the machine and restore Floette back to life. The exposure to excess life energy in the process made AZ and his undead Floette immortal. AZ was relieved of the revival, but the grief he felt for his most beloved Pokemon did not end. He wanted vengeance on all the people and Pokemon responsible for Floette's death. AZ transformed the machine into a weapon and used the remaining life energy to fire off a large beam into the world, effectively ending the war.

AZ's Floette must have figured out that the lives of many Pokemon had to be taken in order for its own life to be restored. It felt disgusted by how AZ would mistreat so many Pokemon like this, even if it were for the sake of itself. As a result, Floette made the decision to leave AZ and never return until the very day AZ learned to care for Pokemon as a whole again.

AZ immediately felt longing regret for firing his weapon and had it buried with the hopes that nobody would ever try to use it again. He then went on a 3000-year journey in search for the lost Floette. Based on AZ's character, Bulbapedia believes he was based off the Wandering Jew legend. If we take from this, we can presume that AZ primarily spent the next 3000 years wandering around the world, searching anywhere for his Floette. In XY, that Floette was mostly all he could ever think about, and he was still going after all of these years. He was immensely dedicated to searching for the beloved Floette he revived, but he was also a mere shell of a man by this point. AZ looks and acts as if like he gave up on everything in life a while back and is just wallowing about in pure misery. All he wanted in life was that Floette back. No other Floette could he accept. Nothing more off life he could accept. Just that one single Floette. Maybe some day... AZ could find it again.

The events of XY were pretty strange for AZ's life. Apparently this time there exists a person who acknowledges the weapon and has the scientific tools he needs to gather resources for its reawakening. This person is the long descendent of AZ's brother, who helped AZ build the weapon 3000 back. They were given the name Lysandre. Lysandre was about to force AZ to witness events he wished would never reoccur, and he was left wandering helplessly until the player and their group of friends stopped them. It wasn't just that they stopped Lysandre, but that they used special bonds they've made with their own Pokemon through battle in order to do so. AZ watched to realize how five random kids used their committed ties to various Pokemon in order to accomplish saving the world. AZ soon learned that these kids would call themselves Pokemon Trainers and the source of their strong bonds were battles their Pokemon would participate with them in. He also learned that these Pokemon would be placed in Poke Balls whenever they were not being used and that those Poke Balls were their home. I speculate that sometime after the event of XY's climax, AZ went out to find three distinct Pokemon and catch them. He would then befriend those Pokemon all the way and possibly even train them for battle. By the time he was done, the player already became Champion of Kalos.

A ceremony was held for you and your friends for saving the entire world. In that ceremony, AZ himself arrived, and he challenged you to a battle. This was the first Pokemon battle he has ever had against a trainer. He wants to know what a Pokemon Trainer is and how they work. He has three Pokemon on his team, all knowing the move Return, to indicate high-friendship and AZ's complete change in character. Through battle, the player shows him how being a Pokemon trainer works, and AZ finally starts caring for Pokemon as a whole again. He feels completely relieved from his grief, and the part of him that fired the ultimate weapon in the first place. From there, his Floette made a very sudden return, for reasons unexplained through dialogue but visually pointed out in blatant levels. All Floette wanted was for AZ to care for Pokemon, not just itself. They were both very happily reunited and the plot of XY ends here.

Why did I write all of this?
I need to greatly emphasize that the level of dedication this man had for his Floette is unparalleled and unmatched by ANY other we have seen in the entire series. AZ's product even accidentally created Mega Evolution, a mechanic that emphasizes even further on having significant ties to Pokemon. Eternal Floette to fall into our hands after this entire event ruins the entire point of AZ's redemption and the value of AZ's bond with his Floette. It would have massively disrespected the entire Kalos lore and given a middle finger to all of its most important aspects. AZ was essentially a folklore that gave others an example of what to and not to do with Pokemon, and we can see him as a good role model for this.

The only reason we want this Pokemon is because it's a unique forme of a good design that was left in the game's data. There's not even a reason for us to have it. Xerneas overshadows Eternal Floette in many ways, Magearna-Original was created as a piece directly inspired by Kalos lore, and Florges is a viable evolution of regular Floette with BST scaled specifically to be higher than Eternal Floette's. Eternal Floette's signature move is also incredibly risky and would lead it to being meh in competitive compared to Florges.

I get we're greedy and want everything we possibly could for ourselves when it comes to Pokemon, even when there's no real reason or merit to having something, but us obtaining this Floette devalues the entire lore behind Kalos and redemptions AZ made in order to reunite with his beloved. It's like ripping Cynthia from her Garchomp for no reason, but millions of times worse. We haven't truly done anything to warrant breaking the connection between him and his Floette, nor have we made any specific bonds with said Floette. Floette still deeply cared for AZ based on the timing of its return, it just wanted to see him change back into his old, caring self.
 
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AZ%27s_Floette.png

A lot of people tend to think that AZ and his Floette are incomplete because AZ's Floette never fell into our hands. It has never made an official release to the player in any mainline Pokemon game. This was despite data for Floette-Eternal existing throughout all of the 3DS titles, Eternal Floette receiving a dex entry for USUM, and it having a unique signature move with visible updates in USUM. I'm here to claim that Gamefreak's failure to release AZ's Eternal Floette was a great thing that shows Gamefreak caring about the Pokemon lore at least somewhat.

Let me explain:
AZ was gifted a Floette from his mother when he was young. He loved this Floette very much and wanted to cherish it for the rest of his life. As far as we know, there was never any disconnection between AZ and his Floette during this time period. Unfortunately Kalos was in a war and Floette was forcibly taken by AZ's own soldiers to fight off in it. In the matter of years, AZ's Floette had died in that war. AZ was immensely overwhelmed with grief. He held upmost passion and love for the Pokemon while it was alive. He was willing to do anything he could just to be with it again... From there, he had an idea. AZ built a machine and used special stones around him to steal the life energy of countless Pokemon surrounding it. That load of life energy was then used to power-up the machine and restore Floette back to life. The exposure to excess life energy in the process made AZ and his undead Floette immortal. AZ was relieved of the revival, but the grief he felt for his most beloved Pokemon did not end. He wanted vengeance on all the people and Pokemon responsible for Floette's death. AZ transformed the machine into a weapon and used the remaining life energy to fire off a large beam into the world, effectively ending the war.

AZ's Floette must have figured out that the lives of many Pokemon had to be taken in order for its own life to be restored. It felt disgusted by how AZ would mistreat so many Pokemon like this, even if it were for the sake of itself. As a result, Floette made the decision to leave AZ and never return until the very day AZ learned to care for Pokemon as a whole again.

AZ immediately felt longing regret for firing his weapon and had it buried with the hopes that nobody would ever try to use it again. He then went on a 3000-year journey in search for the lost Floette. Based on AZ's character, Bulbapedia believes he was based off the Wandering Jew legend. If we take from this, we can presume that AZ primarily spent the next 3000 years wandering around the world, searching anywhere for his Floette. In XY, that Floette was mostly all he could ever think about, and he was still going after all of these years. He was immensely dedicated to searching for the beloved Floette he revived, but he was also a mere shell of a man by this point. AZ looks and acts as if like he gave up on everything in life a while back and is just wallowing about in pure misery. All he wanted in life was that Floette back. No other Floette could he accept. Nothing more off life he could accept. Just that one single Floette. Maybe some day... AZ could find it again.

The events of XY were pretty strange for AZ's life. Apparently this time there exists a person who acknowledges the weapon and has the scientific tools he needs to gather resources for its reawakening. This person is the long descendent of AZ's brother, who helped AZ build the weapon 3000 back. They were given the name Lysandre. Lysandre was about to force AZ to witness events he wished would never reoccur, and he was left wandering helplessly until the player and their group of friends stopped them. It wasn't just that they stopped Lysandre, but that they used special bonds they've made with their own Pokemon through battle in order to do so. AZ watched to realize how five random kids used their committed ties to various Pokemon in order to accomplish saving the world. AZ soon learned that these kids would call themselves Pokemon Trainers and the source of their strong bonds were battles their Pokemon would participate with them in. He also learned that these Pokemon would be placed in Poke Balls whenever they were not being used and that those Poke Balls were their home. I speculate that sometime after the event of XY's climax, AZ went out to find three distinct Pokemon and catch them. He would then befriend those Pokemon all the way and possibly even train them for battle. By the time he was done, the player already became Champion of Kalos.

A ceremony was held for you and your friends for saving the entire world. In that ceremony, AZ himself arrived, and he challenged you to a battle. This was the first Pokemon battle he has ever had against a trainer. He wants to know what a Pokemon Trainer is and how they work. He has three Pokemon on his team, all knowing the move Return, to indicate high-friendship and AZ's complete change in character. Through battle, the player shows him how being a Pokemon trainer works, and AZ finally starts caring for Pokemon as a whole again. He feels completely relieved from his grief, and the part of him that fired the ultimate weapon in the first place. From there, his Floette made a very sudden return, for reasons unexplained through dialogue but visually pointed out in blatant levels. All Floette wanted was for AZ to care for Pokemon, not just itself. They were both very happily reunited and the plot of XY ends here.

Why did I write all of this?
I need to greatly emphasize that the level of dedication this man had for his Floette is unparalleled and unmatched by ANY other we have seen in the entire series. AZ's product even accidentally created Mega Evolution, a mechanic that emphasizes even further on having significant ties to Pokemon. Eternal Floette to fall into our hands after this entire event ruins the entire point of AZ's redemption and the value of AZ's bond with his Floette. It would have massively disrespected the entire Kalos lore and given a middle finger to all of its most important aspects. AZ was essentially a folklore that gave others an example of what to and not to do with Pokemon, and we can see him as a good role model for this.

The only reason we want this Pokemon is because it's a unique forme of a good design that was left in the game's data. There's not even a reason for us to have it. Xerneas overshadows Eternal Floette in many ways, Magearna-Original was created as a piece directly inspired by Kalos lore, and Florges is a viable evolution of regular Floette with BST scaled specifically to be higher than Eternal Floette's. Eternal Floette's signature move is also incredibly risky and would lead it to being meh in competitive compared to Florges.

I get we're greedy and want everything we possibly could for ourselves when it comes to Pokemon, even when there's no real reason or merit to having something, but us obtaining this Floette devalues the entire lore behind Kalos and redemptions AZ made in order to reunite with his beloved. It's like ripping Cynthia from her Garchomp for no reason, but millions of times worse. We haven't truly done anything to warrant breaking the connection between him and his Floette, nor have we made any specific bonds with said Floette. Floette still deeply cared for AZ based on the timing of its return, it just wanted to see him change back into his old, caring self.
Probably for the best to just not code Floette Eternal then, since I find that a waste of data space of something we can’t even obtain at all, including Light of Ruin.

Now that you said it though, the only way we could plausibly obtain Eternal Floette is from another dimension where AZ ended up being killed - or permanently missing, out of that world - and it is unable to find their master since then. Even then, it might cause unfortunate implications if not done carefully, but at least the original Kalos’ own lore remained intact.
 
Probably for the best to just not code Floette Eternal then, since I find that a waste of data space of something we can’t even obtain at all, including Light of Ruin.

Now that you said it though, the only way we could plausibly obtain Eternal Floette is from another dimension where AZ ended up being killed - or permanently missing, out of that world - and it is unable to find their master since then. Even then, it might cause unfortunate implications if not done carefully, but at least the original Kalos’ own lore remained intact.
It's not Pokemon Home's code despite the all remaining Floette forms being in, so it might not be in the code for future games.
 
There's not even a reason for us to have it. Xerneas overshadows Eternal Floette in many ways, Magearna-Original was created as a piece directly inspired by Kalos lore, and Florges is a viable evolution of regular Floette with BST scaled specifically to be higher than Eternal Floette's. Eternal Floette's signature move is also incredibly risky and would lead it to being meh in competitive compared to Florges.
You raise some really excellent lore reasons for why Eternal Floette should remain unreleased, but mechanically, it wouldn't be as redundant as you think. Its stat spread is pretty different from Florges, with higher Special Attack and much higher Speed, which combined with Light of Ruin's incredible power would have led it to play significantly differently from the more defensive Florges. Also, saying a Pokemon is overshadowed by Magearna and Xerneas is basically a non-statement.
 
The most glaring issue HGSS has in my opinion is the level curve and how atrociously slow it is. We can thank Kanto's presence in these games for that, instead of extending the level curve into the 60s, 70s, and 80s to accommodate Kanto, they stretched a similar level curve to every other game across two entire regions.
The other option(frankly an insane one) would be to make Johto's level curve 5-60 as normal, then do the same for Kanto's level curve. Start with lvl 10 trainers in Vermillion and go up from there. The player CAN choose to steamroll the entire region with their E4 team, or can breed up a new team and play through normally(with TMs and lategame Johto mons). Yes, development realities mean it won't be as balanced as normal(ha), and fewer random trainers mean likely more grinding, but it would be a cathartic "you're awesome" moment for the kiddies while also being a challenge mode for veterans.

Again, it's a wacky idea, and I know why they didn't do that, but it'd be something new they could try.
 
Eternal Flower Floette has a full 3D model in the coding of the Smartphone versions of Home that is viewable with hacking

Also people are forgetting that we have gotten iconic trainer's Pokemon as events before, both from the games and from the anime. Like Lance's Barrier Dragonite. OT is Lance and everything. They could easily do the same with the Eternal Flower Floette. Just make it a download event in a game where the Flabebe line is catchable and call it a day.

Alternatively, it could be available via a Kalos Legends-type game, since IIRC the flower it holds is long extinct so logically there would be more in the distant past.
 
Probably for the best to just not code Floette Eternal then, since I find that a waste of data space of something we can’t even obtain at all, including Light of Ruin.

Now that you said it though, the only way we could plausibly obtain Eternal Floette is from another dimension where AZ ended up being killed - or permanently missing, out of that world - and it is unable to find their master since then. Even then, it might cause unfortunate implications if not done carefully, but at least the original Kalos’ own lore remained intact.
Maybe make Eternal Flower Floette something like Kenya the Spearow: a Pokémon you are supposed to give to another person.
That's a good compromise between story and gameplay if you ask me.
 
I said it before and I will say it again: plot must bend to gameplay, always. This is a game. If you want plot to be the focus read a book or watch a movie.
I think it's important to find a middle ground. It's like design vs function. Part of any art is to find balance between the elements of your piece

My favorite game, Undertale, is a masterpiece of combining gameplay and plot. If the plot just bent to the gameplay or if the gameplay just bent to the plot, it wouldn't be half as good. But by having a perfect middle ground, it's most defining features are created
 
I think it's important to find a middle ground. It's like design vs function. Part of any art is to find balance between the elements of your piece

My favorite game, Undertale, is a masterpiece of combining gameplay and plot. If the plot just bent to the gameplay or if the gameplay just bent to the plot, it wouldn't be half as good. But by having a perfect middle ground, it's most defining features are created

I mean, initially, video games didn't had a plot. What mattered was the gameplay. It's only when games like RPGs started to arrive that developers started to develop scenarios in their games.
I personally give little importance to the plot because, since a game can exist without (just look at arcade games or racing games), I consider it as a "little extra" that should be highlighted if it's good but shouldn't matter that much, or at least, less than the gameplay. Of course, people are more regarding toward the plot with RPGs due to their narrative nature but, I have to agree with ZettaiRyouiki, it must bend the gameplay.
 
I mean, initially, video games didn't had a plot. What mattered was the gameplay. It's only when games like RPGs started to arrive that developers started to develop scenarios in their games.
I personally give little importance to the plot because, since a game can exist without (just look at arcade games or racing games), I consider it as a "little extra" that should be highlighted if it's good but shouldn't matter that much, or at least, less than the gameplay. Of course, people are more regarding toward the plot with RPGs due to their narrative nature but, I have to agree with ZettaiRyouiki, it must bend the gameplay.
I think it depends entirely on the game

Even in games with minimal plot, it has to match the gameplay and vice versa

Punch-Out's plot is that you play a young, short guy who wants to be the boxing champion. That's it. As simple as it gets. The gameplay is based on defeating much stronger opponents than you, their power is a crucial element of the game's design. And also that of the plot, as after all, you play the underdog

If Punch-Out was Doom but in a boxing ring, where you beat the shit out of much weaker opponents, but it still has the underdog narrative, that leads to a dissonance that might be tiny when the game's still fun, but still exists and is notable
 
I think it's important to find a middle ground. It's like design vs function. Part of any art is to find balance between the elements of your piece

My favorite game, Undertale, is a masterpiece of combining gameplay and plot. If the plot just bent to the gameplay or if the gameplay just bent to the plot, it wouldn't be half as good. But by having a perfect middle ground, it's most defining features are created
Are we thinking of the same game? Because my thoughts on Undertale is that the story gets in the way of having good gameplay to such a degree that I've been turned off by anything else the developer produces (as if I needed more reason to be hesitant about current mainline pokemon games). I only recently posted in the general videogame thread about a game with barely any plot doing a much more reasonable job of having endings tied to playstyles than more serious games, and Undertale was at the forefront of my mind while writing that.

Balance requires knowing where the fulcrum is. You cannot assume it is in the center.
 
Are we thinking of the same game? Because my thoughts on Undertale is that the story gets in the way of having good gameplay to such a degree that I've been turned off by anything else the developer produces (as if I needed more reason to be hesitant about current mainline pokemon games). I only recently posted in the general videogame thread about a game with barely any plot doing a much more reasonable job of having endings tied to playstyles than more serious games, and Undertale was at the forefront of my mind while writing that.
That's a pretty rare opinion tbh. The idea of having storytelling during fights and throughout the gameplay is a huge plus for Undertale for most people. Like the whole puzzles in Snowdin showing Papyrus's character, Flowey breaking the rules of the game, attack strength and patterns often depending on your own actions... I can't think of a single game that managed to incorporate it's message and mechanics as good into both gameplay and story whilst having these influence one another as Undertale did

Balance requires knowing where the fulcrum is. You cannot assume it is in the center.
I agree on that, which is actually also one of the reasons why I love undsrtale
 
I think the AZ Floette thing is being over thought honestly. The lore discussion and its significance to the character they created are all valid things to be fascinated by, but I think Pokemon has long made clear that the majority of Legendary Pokemon encounters aren't captures in terms of their story unless explicitly forced on the player (Delta Rayquaza, BW Dragon, Xerneas/Yveltal, Nebby, and Eternatus standing out). Most other encounters are more just about meeting the Pokemon or pacifying it when it's enraged from something the antagonists have done.

This comes to mind in particular for Mythicals, which they've very conspicuously moved from encounter events to simple distributions for in the time since Generation 5 (where most of them had in-game sequences once obtained). Mythicals have had a much more distinct sense of being something where you owning them is just a gameplay concession not to be taken too seriously in the story (otherwise we get into other bizarre questions like Hoopa and the Portal Rings for ORAS Legendary encounters).

I doubt AZ's Floette existing in the code for a potential event was supposed to suggest the plot-event of the Pokemon joining with you instead of AZ, doubly so because its nickname is "Eternal" Floette most times it comes up. I'd sooner expect TPC to handwave it as another occurrence of the same Phenomena from 3000 Years ago (since Lysandre tries firing the same weapon again at present) or some rare mutation akin to Diance-to-Carbink (just Floette isn't a distinct species this time).
 
I doubt AZ's Floette existing in the code for a potential event was supposed to suggest the plot-event of the Pokemon joining with you instead of AZ, doubly so because its nickname is "Eternal" Floette most times it comes up. I'd sooner expect TPC to handwave it as another occurrence of the same Phenomena from 3000 Years ago (since Lysandre tries firing the same weapon again at present) or some rare mutation akin to Diance-to-Carbink (just Floette isn't a distinct species this time).

Honestly I wouldn't even expect TPC to bother with a handwave. It's not even that complex.

The fact that I can have five Rayquaza all caught at Sky Pillar by different trainers on one save file is just gameplay and story segregation imo. The same goes for, say, the shiny Eternatus that's currently being distributed to SwSh - never mind that in-game lore says that there's only one, the event one is deliberately non-canon and purely for player expansion.

Having Lance's Dragonite from that event a few years ago doesn't mean that you actually have Lance's Dragonite. It's just a representation of that Pokemon, not the canon individual.

That said, I do think that if AZ's Floette had been given to the player as part of the story of a potential Z version, it would have been either because AZ was finally dying or because he thought that it was better off with the player. I'm sure there would have been a justification if it had been a plot-relevant gift. But as an event, no.
 
I said it before and I will say it again: plot must bend to gameplay, always. This is a game. If you want plot to be the focus read a book or watch a movie.

It entirely depends on the game. FF9 is one of my favorite games, but not because of the gameplay. It's filled with so many random encounters and battles take forever that it makes Diamond and Pearl look fast by comparison. However, it has excellent characters, interesting cities to explore and an amazing story, which make up for the gameplay shortcomings IMO.
 
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