Data Usage-Based Tier Update for December 2019 (here comes UU!)

Status
Not open for further replies.
OU as it stands has 30ish mons, even if stuff decentralizes we’re still sitting at a 40 mon tier tops. That would put an 80 mon OU/UU at the high ends of reasonable estimates, especially with the new cutoff. We’re probably gonna have OU-PU under this new cutoff level, regardless of whether or not PU being NFE heavy someone makes it invalid
There will also be some bans in every tier, so including the BL's it will probably around 50 per tier all considered. Given there are roughly 250 fully-evolved pokemon in SwSh, that's just enough for five tiers. PU will still feature NFE's quite heavily, but it will have no problems existing.
 

Shuckleking87

"Assault vest makes everything better" AV Seaking, BT
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
OU as it stands has 30ish mons, even if stuff decentralizes we’re still sitting at a 40 mon tier tops. That would put an 80 mon OU/UU at the high ends of reasonable estimates, especially with the new cutoff. We’re probably gonna have OU-PU under this new cutoff level, regardless of whether or not PU being NFE heavy someone makes it invalid
Yea the new cutoff that apparently permanent will probably have a PU at this point, but I guess whether the mons there are going to be enticing enough to support it as an official tournament format or not, Im assuming it wont but still plenty of time. ZU wont be official though lol
 

Kalalokki

is a member of the Site Staffis a Top Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
Visual Media Head
If people really wanted to see ZU as a tier in official formats, then it would be there now. Not saying nobody wants to see these tourneys, but it's an extremely small niche of people compared to OU/UU
ZU is still a really young tier and of course it doesn't compare to something like OU. Like I said to some other guy not too long ago, as long as people are willing to play it it will exist. Don't really need outsiders telling others that their tiers shouldn't exist just because there's less mons to go around.
 

Shuckleking87

"Assault vest makes everything better" AV Seaking, BT
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
ZU is still a really young tier and of course it doesn't compare to something like OU. Like I said to some other guy not too long ago, as long as people are willing to play it it will exist. Don't really need outsiders telling others that their tiers shouldn't exist just because there's less mons to go around.
Not saying it shouldn't exist, Im saying it will probably not be in official tournament formats
 
Relatively new to Smogon, although been a long time lurker and occasional player when a new gen starts. Can someone explain to me why some of these are so popular right now? I'm trying to learn for education purposes.

Conkeldurr: Is this purely a defog and bulky thing? I'm not really understanding it so high up.

Rotom-Wash: What about this gen makes it so popular? Just typing plus bulk?

Clefable: Little surprised to see it so high right now. Most of the tier are strong physical attackers, and it's bulky on the special side. Seems like with Dyna out there, there are no shortage of wallbreakers.
Nobody replied on clef so I'll just go ahead and take that liberty; Life Orb Clefable is pretty close to 100% consistent at breaking balance teams by itself. It's a big part of why defensive teams are so bad right now, along with Darm and Dracovishious rend
 

Jaajgko

I will disband the soccer club
is a Tiering Contributor
Diggersby lose a good stab in Return/Frustation this gen forcing to use Facade, a less reliable STAB, but PurePower+ EQ STAB is good if the tier lack a good Ground- resist.
Gengar is really good, with access to Nasty Plot rn, but is outclased by Dragapulk as a Ghost- attacker. Also need to run Sludge Way or Hex to no be wall by Bulletproff mon like Kommo-o
Kommo-o have many good set, DD or Clangorous Soul with/out Sub.. i think the same of banworthy in this case
You can still go with unacurate moves like mega kick
 
Are people still spamming that damn Pikachu knock off in OU even after the pretty important nerf it got?

It shall begin.
10% is barely noticable, being able to take a free hit unless its cloyster or something is absolutely broken as a revenge killer, so it will always have a niche in that. great typing too
 

G-Luke

Sugar, Spice and One for All
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributor
Moderator
10% is barely noticable, being able to take a free hit unless its cloyster or something is absolutely broken as a revenge killer, so it will always have a niche in that. great typing too
It was mediocre last gen and barely anything has improved for it in generation 8. In fact it was directly nerfed. That guaranteed revenge kill is nice against a HO team and all but after its disguise breaks its worthless, and bulkier teams face off against it with little issue. When Red Card was revealed as to not be a visble means of countering Dynamax its usefulness tanked. It hits too weak and is too frail for a mon of its speed tier to be good
 
It was mediocre last gen and barely anything has improved for it in generation 8. In fact it was directly nerfed. That guaranteed revenge kill is nice against a HO team and all but after its disguise breaks its worthless, and bulkier teams face off against it with little issue. When Red Card was revealed as to not be a visble means of countering Dynamax its usefulness tanked. It hits too weak and is too frail for a mon of its speed tier to be good
Dynamax was a direct buff to it as it can take a dynamax shot for free. one of the few pokemon that can sub stall dynamax without having to rely on prankster if they are speedboosted. can switch into multiple typings easily, has a fairly strong shadow sneak, it's great and all if you personally dont like it but it has a lot going on for it in this gen.
 

G-Luke

Sugar, Spice and One for All
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributor
Moderator
Dynamax was a direct buff to it as it can take a dynamax shot for free. one of the few pokemon that can sub stall dynamax without having to rely on prankster if they are speedboosted. can switch into multiple typings easily, has a fairly strong shadow sneak, it's great and all if you personally dont like it but it has a lot going on for it in this gen.
Running that set for Mimikyu is just subpar overall, (and how is Mimikyu boosting speed?). Switching into multiple typings us kind of a misnomer, since it can't switch in on anything that isn't an immunity due to its fraility and the nature of its ability, and while it can switch in on say Dragon type moves, it often can't actually switch in freely on the Dragon types themselves, with Hydreigon and Dragapult heavily punishing it for mispredicting a Dragon attack. (Tho tbh, its a reasonable switch in to Kommo). Fighting types are a similar boat, but more within Mimikyu's favour, since the common fighters within the tier have a less than favourable matchup with it. But that leads into my main issue with Mimikyu, its matchup versus plenty of top threats just isn't amazing rn. SD sets are arguably outclassed by Aegislash, it can't sweep since 96 unboosted speed still isnt lightyears in this metagame and it completely falls flat against popular thicker archtypes, since it just can't break most of the popular bulky Pokémon, unless you decide to waste Dynamax on it. Its just a mon that has a few shiny gimmicks which appear great on the surface, but once given context to the the meta fails to hold its weight. Mimikyu is just mediocre.
 
Can I ask why Toxtricity is OU right now? I'm looking at its data and it doesn't seem to be THAT strong, and yet it's sitting pretty with double digit usage. Is this shiny new toy syndrome or is there something I'm missing?

Also, UU players, hi! What's the UU meta currently looking like?
 
Can I ask why Toxtricity is OU right now? I'm looking at its data and it doesn't seem to be THAT strong, and yet it's sitting pretty with double digit usage. Is this shiny new toy syndrome or is there something I'm missing?
Toxtricity is a wallbreaker that can enter all the walls in OU rn, except Ferro. He is also an Electric- mon capable of beating all Ground- types thanks to Punk Rock busted Boomburst. With Specs he 2HKO everything except Ferro ofc. Also his typing let by a check to Gyarados, Hawlucha and Cleafable.
 
There will also be some bans in every tier, so including the BL's it will probably around 50 per tier all considered. Given there are roughly 250 fully-evolved pokemon in SwSh, that's just enough for five tiers. PU will still feature NFE's quite heavily, but it will have no problems existing.
PU/ZU have always had nfes. Look at gligar in uu last generation. Mareanie, combusken, ferroseed,etc
 
PU/ZU have always had nfes. Look at gligar in uu last generation. Mareanie, combusken, ferroseed,etc
There's a difference between having a few NFE's, and being mostly NFE's. Gen 7 PU is only 13% NFE, but I'd wager that NFE's will be a much bigger slice of the PU usage charts in gen 8.
 
I don't play singles all that much anymore, but I will say that considering the Dynamax suspect test looking like the mechanic will be banned, I genuinely think they called the OU tiering too early, since it's safe to assume that the lower tiers will ban Dynamax too if OU bans it, which seems to be becoming more likely too. Not to mention that if/when it does, there's no doubt going to be MASSIVE tier shifts too.
 
I don't play singles all that much anymore, but I will say that considering the Dynamax suspect test looking like the mechanic will be banned, I genuinely think they called the OU tiering too early, since it's safe to assume that the lower tiers will ban Dynamax too if OU bans it, which seems to be becoming more likely too. Not to mention that if/when it does, there's no doubt going to be MASSIVE tier shifts too.
UU will adjust. This is why the beta phase exists, everyone knows the first few months of a tier are a chaotic mess, but creating UU off of early OU stats at least lets UU get started early on figuring out/banning what’s truly ridiculous*.

*Of course, what’s truly ridiculous in UU right now is Dynamax, so the early start doesn’t help.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top