Usage-based Tier Updates for March (Hello, RU!)

Status
Not open for further replies.
#28
Pokemon are banned for being at their best, as we generally don't allow them to remain while being at their worst. Keep in mind that this logic doesn't just apply to Speed Boost Blaziken, but also the likes of Protean Greninja, Serene Grace Togekiss, Huge Power Azumarill, Multiscale Dragonite, Technician Breloom, Reckless Staraptor, Contrary Serperior, Adaptability Porygon-Z, etc. and this is all just the tip of the iceberg. Heck, why stop at abilities and start going into moves as well, like Flyinium Z for UU, or Z-Conversion, or even just start excluding STAB for Uber Pokemon just so they can be "allowed into lower tiers"? If you think this all starts to sound tedious to keep track of all these specific complex bans for each individual Pokemon, you'd be right.

Basically, complex bans are liable to start this slippery slope that can't really be argued against if the first one goes through. Bans are typically applied universally in that it applies for all Pokemon without discrimination or bias. For the record, banning Speed Boost in general just to allow Blaziken to remain would adversely affect other Speed Boost Pokemon, while banning Speed Boost from only Blaziken itself is quite obviously bias.
So I definantly see where you are coming from and the logic makes sense, the only issue I have is all of the pokemon listed as examples EXCEPT protean greninja are allowed in at least one other meta game(OU), I just figured as these are starter pokemon and likely fan favorites of many it may be nice to give an option for them to be used in a meta game that isn't uber. Either way thank you for the response I can accept that answer!
 
#29
Nahh, I miss my phat phish dude. And no chance that it should've been banned. It wasn't over centralized like Mega Lix was, Mola was always top 10 most used in usage, but never above number 5 iirc.
 
#30
Pelipper and Xurkitree didn't drop despite the fact that I haven't seen either of them once in battle or a single mention of either of them during the entire month of February.
As long as Scolipass is a thing, Xurkitree will always be OU (it also happens te righr next to Scolipede usage wise). Rain teams are still around because of it's abusers (Swift Swim, Thunder Koko, Hurricane Dragonite/Volcarona, etc.)

'The OU<->UU changes are based on two months of stats (January and February) with usage above 4.52% needed to rise and usage below 2.28% needed to drop.'
So in theory, both Clef and Gengar need to be OU by usage again next month to rise?
 
#32
This tier shift really surprised me.

Pelipper and Xurkitree didn't drop despite the fact that I haven't seen either of them once in battle or a single mention of either of them during the entire month of February. Darmanitan rising also surprised me, I didn't see any in battle and it's not at all a relevant Pokemon in the metagame. Shame too, I really liked it in RU. Dhelmise I was only half-expecting, since it didn't drop last month when it absolutely should've.
Xurkitree is still used for the 2 Z-Move sets it has and Pelipper will definitely drop in April
 

Arcticblast

somebody stop me
is a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Moderator
#36
I can't believe fucking Araquanid was used more than Amoonguss in DOU
Can you believe Araquanid is just as good as, if not arguably better than, Amoonguss in DOU? Because with Koko and Fini ruining Spore, and the likes of Tapu Lele and Mega Salamence around, Amoonguss is a lot less viable this gen as a bulky utility mon
 

Punchshroom

Paralysis is slightly less of a devil
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
#37
So I heard that newly introduced Megas start off in OU, even though I have heard rumors that Mega Mawile did indeed start off in RU (albeit briefly) and was quickbanned thusly. Can I get more information on this?
 
#38
So I heard that newly introduced Megas start off in OU, even though I have heard rumors that Mega Mawile did indeed start off in RU (albeit briefly) and was quickbanned thusly. Can I get more information on this?
The former is true, the latter definitely isn't. (Mega Mawile is not listed as Quickbanned anywhere in the SM RU forums, only Suicune is)
 
#39
The former is true, the latter definitely isn't. (Mega Mawile is not listed as Quickbanned anywhere in the SM RU forums, only Suicune is)
I think that was only because of a glitch and Mega Mawile wasn't supposed to be in RU in the first place, so they didn't bother mentioning it. Also it happened in Alpha I think.
 

Martin

The artist formerly known as gamer boy
is a Forum Moderatoris a Live Chat Contributor
Moderator
#41
Can you believe Araquanid is just as good as, if not arguably better than, Amoonguss in DOU? Because with Koko and Fini ruining Spore, and the likes of Tapu Lele and Mega Salamence around, Amoonguss is a lot less viable this gen as a bulky utility mon
I'm so used to Amoonguss being a staple of doubles metas, so this is really offputting for me--especially when I consider that Araquanid is basically in the same boat as Vaporeon in singles (compresses roles but doesn't actually do anything that something else doesn't do better) and I can't really think what it does in dubs that other things wouldn't do better outside of hyper team specific role compression. Then again, I don't play gen 7 dubs so I'm probably missing something. It's still bewildering for me though.

Could you elaborate on what Araquanid does that makes it viable in doubles?
 
#42
I'm so used to Amoonguss being a staple of doubles metas, so this is really offputting for me--especially when I consider that Araquanid is basically in the same boat as Vaporeon in singles (compresses roles but doesn't actually do anything that something else doesn't do better) and I can't really think what it does in dubs that other things wouldn't do better outside of hyper team specific role compression. Then again, I don't play gen 7 dubs so I'm probably missing something. It's still bewildering for me though.

Could you elaborate on what Araquanid does that makes it viable in doubles?
It's known for Water Bubble Liquidation which destroys any bulky Pokémon. It's also known for Entrainment where it can pass its ability to another Water-type. That's just some of the things about Araquanid
 
Last edited:

Arcticblast

somebody stop me
is a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Moderator
#43
I'm so used to Amoonguss being a staple of doubles metas, so this is really offputting for me--especially when I consider that Araquanid is basically in the same boat as Vaporeon in singles (compresses roles but doesn't actually do anything that something else doesn't do better) and I can't really think what it does in dubs that other things wouldn't do better outside of hyper team specific role compression. Then again, I don't play gen 7 dubs so I'm probably missing something. It's still bewildering for me though.

Could you elaborate on what Araquanid does that makes it viable in doubles?
On top of that Liquidation being strong as hell, Wide Guard is a very strong move in Doubles, and with its Ground/Water/Fire resists + Wide Guard it's a solid check to Zygarde, Charizard Y, Heatran, and Kingdra rain at the same time. It doesn't offer a whole lot else besides good typing + reasonable bulk + Liquidation though (your next best move is Lunge as a utility move, but when are you ever using that?), so it's not top tier or anything.
It's known for Water Bubble Liquidation which destroys any bulky Pokémon. It's known for Entrainment where it can pass its ability to another Water-type, and it has access to Wide Guard to prevent spread moves from hitting. That's just some of the things about Araquanid
Entrainment isn't worth using, Gastrodon is too rare to bother
 

Arcticblast

somebody stop me
is a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Moderator
#45
The use of Entrainment is not for passing through water absorb pokes, but for allies like Gyarados and Azumarrill that would enjoy the added strenght on their principal STABs and a burn immunity...
Except then you have two Water types on your team in a metagame where Tapu Koko is one of the strongest Pokemon around and every team has at least two checks to Water types (also why the FUCK are you removing Azumarill's Huge Power lmao)
 
#46
Great, so this is basically the whole "wait for higher tiers to drop the Mega Stones slowly tier by tier" as opposed to "Mega Stones start off in the same tier as the base mon, quickban/suspect if necessary". Can't say I like this approach.
The Mega Pokemon are considered unique Pokémon from their base form. Any mega Pokémon is effectively an unreleased Pokémon, and all unreleased Pokémon start as default in OU until their usage drops it to UU and then they're UU till the usage drops again. Besides can you imagine having Mega Mawile in RU? It'd be insane.
 

Punchshroom

Paralysis is slightly less of a devil
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
#47
The Mega Pokemon are considered unique Pokémon from their base form. Any mega Pokémon is effectively an unreleased Pokémon, and all unreleased Pokémon start as default in OU until their usage drops it to UU and then they're UU till the usage drops again. Besides can you imagine having Mega Mawile in RU? It'd be insane.
Yes I know this, but the point I'm making is that it'd be less costly/time-consuming for lower tiers if the Mega Stones were immediately available in the same tier as the base Pokemon. If an overpowered Mega Stone, such as Altarianite and Lopunnite, were to be released in the base Pokemon's home tier, it can be resolved immediately with quickbans or suspects, and there's even the possibility that via the latter, the Mega Stone might prove to be not that overwhelming after all. However, with the current system, lower tiers have to wait at least a month before even getting the chance to use some of the lesser Mega Stones, such as Cameruptite, Steelixite, Audinite, etc.

Of course, this is only me expressing my dissenting opinion anyway, and I wouldn't be that bothered if they stuck with it since the whole "unreleased Pokemon starting in OU" system still makes sense; I'm just voicing my surprise that they changed up the Mega distribution system at all.
 
#48
Yes I know this, but the point I'm making is that it'd be less costly/time-consuming for lower tiers if the Mega Stones were immediately available in the same tier as the base Pokemon. If an overpowered Mega Stone, such as Altarianite and Lopunnite, were to be released in the base Pokemon's home tier, it can be resolved immediately with quickbans or suspects, and there's even the possibility that via the latter, the Mega Stone might prove to be not that overwhelming after all. However, with the current system, lower tiers have to wait at least a month before even getting the chance to use some of the lesser Mega Stones, such as Cameruptite, Steelixite, Audinite, etc.

Of course, this is only me expressing my dissenting opinion anyway, and I wouldn't be that bothered if they stuck with it since the whole "unreleased Pokemon starting in OU" system still makes sense; I'm just voicing my surprise that they changed up the Mega distribution system at all.
Just as a thought, maybe place the mega in the tier it previously was in last gen (or closest to it). By doing this, the balancing of the mon generally stays the same. Also, because a large chunk of megas are generally centered around the NU-UU area, it would be a nice time to start placement this way.
 

thesecondbest

Just Kidding I'm First
#49
Yes I know this, but the point I'm making is that it'd be less costly/time-consuming for lower tiers if the Mega Stones were immediately available in the same tier as the base Pokemon. If an overpowered Mega Stone, such as Altarianite and Lopunnite, were to be released in the base Pokemon's home tier, it can be resolved immediately with quickbans or suspects, and there's even the possibility that via the latter, the Mega Stone might prove to be not that overwhelming after all. However, with the current system, lower tiers have to wait at least a month before even getting the chance to use some of the lesser Mega Stones, such as Cameruptite, Steelixite, Audinite, etc.

Of course, this is only me expressing my dissenting opinion anyway, and I wouldn't be that bothered if they stuck with it since the whole "unreleased Pokemon starting in OU" system still makes sense; I'm just voicing my surprise that they changed up the Mega distribution system at all.
That's why the quickdropping system exists, so bad megas fall quickly. Better than ruining a tier until a broken mon gets banned.
 
#50
The fact that Oranguru is used more than Volcarona and Azumarill in Doubles OU saddens me. Well, not really, but it will probably remain as one of those "lower ladder" staples that will never get to see the light of DUU or even DNU.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top