Resource USM Sample Teams [Submissions closed]

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Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 144 HP / 156 Atk / 56 SpD / 152 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Swords Dance
- Precipice Blades
- Rock Tomb

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Ultranecrozium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Photon Geyser
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 168 SpA / 252 SpD / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Origin Pulse
- Thunder
- Ice Beam

Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Double-Edge
- Defog
- Roost

Arceus @ Chople Berry
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Claw
- Recover

please give me solid opinions on how i can make this team better
 

Mitsuharu

Banned deucer.


https://pokepast.es/c0a3e9b32a16a9d7
Fairyceus based team. I can press Sableye with SR on the change. It is one of my answers for Yveltal or Dark spam. EP as coverage for PDon / Necro. When building Goth came to me, I always liked the role it has in ubers. It allows me to wear defensive forms of Arceus and other passive mon. Then comes Marsh since he takes advantage of Goth's ability to eliminate threats that he cannot. PDon can not miss here also has a good ability and is another resistance to Xern although it does not seem very viable by its set. I think it's the one that best fits. Magearna because I like it as a core with Marsh and I needed something better for the main fairy Xern. The last hole reserved for MMence my only change to Ground spam and Defog user. Thanks to Intimidate you can absorb better physical damage.
 
MMX Bulky Offense - Jhonx

This team is built around Mewtwo-X + Ho-Oh, its a core I found today while I was playing back Ubers after my really long quit, Mewtwo checks Ekiller and Dark Types, While Ho-Oh checks Fairy types and all Yveltal non Toxic / CB, Primal Groudon bring me here Electric Inmunity and Kyogre-Primal check with a fast set to outspeed opposing Groudon, Xerneas here its a check to Dark Types since the main core can be overwhelmed by Yveltal and chose a Specs set to maintain offensive pressure, also it has Aromateraphy to heal the team in some circunstances, finally Yveltal Bulky Scarf set to Defog safe, Foul Play threats like Marshadow, Arceus, etc. Finally Necrozma-DM with Ultra Z so I can hit Xerneas with DM Forme and can switch to Ultra vs other match ups, Rock Blast here to deal Smeargle lead, so Necrozma wins the 1v1 and avoid the Sticky Webs in the field.
 
Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 144 HP / 156 Atk / 56 SpD / 152 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Swords Dance
- Precipice Blades
- Rock Tomb

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Ultranecrozium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Photon Geyser
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 168 SpA / 252 SpD / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Origin Pulse
- Thunder
- Ice Beam

Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Double-Edge
- Defog
- Roost

Arceus @ Chople Berry
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Claw
- Recover

please give me solid opinions on how i can make this team better
Differences to the sample team:
  • Groudon-Primal with stealth rock
  • Physical Ultra-Necrozma without stealth rock
  • Max SpD Xerneas? with hidden power fire
  • Kyogre-Primal with thunder
I think it is the old version of the team.
 
I've taken over the thread as the host due to previous the previous host being busy with things, expect all teams that have been posted to be reviewed shortly (end of this week). Just thought I'd give an update just so people aren't confused with whats going on and why they havent received any input on their submissions.
 

bigtalk

a warm breeze whistles by
is a Pre-Contributor

Choice Band Ho-Oh Bulky Offense

Arceus-Ground can scout for a Rock-type move from Primal Groudon while acting as a sturdy Defogger that can keep rocks off the field and check threats like Mega Salamence and Zygarde-C for Ho-Oh. Primal Groudon covers this core's Water-type weakness, having maximum Speed investment to at worst tie with Primal Kyogre and Stone Edge to snipe opposing Ho-Oh, which can be problematic for some teammates. Charti Berry Yveltal is the team's physical backbone against threats like Marshadow, Extreme Killer Arceus and Ultra Necrozma. Magearna provides a solid check to Geomancy Xerneas and Dark-types, easing the pressure on Ho-Oh, and cleric support which is invaluable since most of the team is susceptible to Toxic. Mega Mewtwo X helps to break bulky teams while giving us a method of speed control.
  • MM2X lives +2 Extreme Speed from Arceus after taking rocks damage as base forme Mewtwo. Naive is used over Jolly since it gives a better roll for Ice Beam to OHKO base forme Zygarde.
  • Magearna underspeeds Chansey/Alomuk to get a slow Volt Switch off since the rest of the team lacks a Toxic immunity
  • Groudon's spread lives 0 Atk Precipice Blades from opposing Primal Groudon and 2 Ice Beams from Primal Kyogre after rocks
  • Arceus-Ground outspeeds Mega Lucario and lives Primal Groudon's Eruption from full
I realize this is pretty similar to the team that Jhonx~ had but it is, IMO a little more defensively solid. (I did not copy his build, I modified something I created earlier from here so the overlap is purely coincidential.)
 
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bigtalk

a warm breeze whistles by
is a Pre-Contributor
Also despite the OP stateing that you're not supposed to submit more than one at a time, I really really think a solid balance build needs to be featured. Balance is a major playstyle in Ubers, yet the sample teams gives newcomers the impression that it's all hyper offense/bulky offense, which is not true at all. So I would also like to submit:


Ferrothorn Balance

Support Dusk Mane is a fairly standard teammate for Ferrothorn, since it checks Xerneas and sets Stealth Rock, allowing Ferrothorn to run Spikes. These two share an obvious Fire-type weakness, so Arceus-Water provides the team with an essential defensive backbone that is able to check threats like Ho-Oh and mixed variants of Primal Groudon. It additionally takes some pressure off of Ferrothorn to check other threats, like Water Spout Primal Kyogre and Calm Mind Arceus-Ground. Xerneas covers the Fighting- and Dark- weaknesses of Ferrothorn/Dusk, respectively, and provides a method of speed control to revenge kill fast threats like Marshadow and Choice Scarf Yveltal. Yveltal is the team's physical wall, being a solid pivot into threats like offensive Dusk Mane, Ultra Necrozma, and Swords Dance Arceus formes, while also being able to stallbreak against bulkier teams. Marshadow serves as a general-purpose revenge killer/wallbreaker, that additionally provides Pursuit trapping utility to eliminate Mega Gengar/Gothitelle, which could otherwise remove key members of the team with little fear. It is using a Choice Band set instead of Life Orb to put more pressure on defensive Pokemon like Mega Sableye and Ho-Oh, which wall both of our hazard setters, and because the team has adequate backbone to handle the loss of momentum if it locks into the wrong move (for example, Yveltal can pivot into Extreme Killer if it's locked into a Ghost-type move, or Lunala if it's locked into Close Combat). Xerneas, Yveltal, and Marshadow synergize particularly well with our hazard setters, as not only are most of their checks weak to Spikes, but Ferrothorn/Dusk can easily switch into most of said checks (such as support Dusk/Magearna for Xerneas, and Fairy-types/support Arceus for the other two) and use them as opportunities to set up hazards.
This team is very similar to the one that Rasengan777 posted earlier, however, there are a few key differences:
  • The choice of Arceus-Water over Zygarde as the answer to Fire-types ensures the team can properly handle threats like mixed Rock Polish Primal Groudon (and other niche mons with Fire-type coverage capable of hitting Zygarde, like Kyurem-W and Reshiram).
  • Yveltal significantly improves the matchup against opposing balances, since it can stallbreak and prevent hazards/Defog from the opposing side with Taunt. It also gives us a Ground immunity/Spikes immunity, while the other team lacks one.
  • Having a Dark-type means we aren't exclusively reliant on Pursuit Marshadow to deal with Ghost-types.
 
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I’m posting another team here because I hate the lack of (good) Stall teams in this thread and as a sample. Attached below is probably my most successful team that got me to top 30 multiple times.

Lugia Stall

There really isn’t much to say about this team that can’t be comprehended at a glance. I prefer Lugia’s bulk over lunala even if it makes the necro mu a little more difficult, it aids in so many other fashions that I believe the pros outweigh the cons.
SR>over defog on Arc for obvious reasons, but I also had success running CM. Inb4 the question arises about my spread. I prefer the bulk, but running the common spread with timid is perfectly viable with this team as well.
Roar>willow on Gira because I found in my matches that Roar was accomplishing what I wanted from willow just more consistently. I run more Def because realistically I’m not staying in on pogre anyways.
I find the rest of my team to be self explanatory.
I’m glad you took the time to read my response and if anyone has any questions or suggestions please don’t hesitate.
 
Sorry, its a bit later than expected, but the workload of all teams that were submitted has finally been completed and they have been evaluated.

Members involved in the discussion: Cynara, Nayrz, Skysolo14, ByronTheWellWell, Exiline, Mysterious M, Purplegatorade


lemme give this a shot.
Mewtwo @ Mewtwonite Y
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psystrike
- Ice Beam
- Fire Blast
- Calm Mind

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Overheat
- Precipice Blades
- Rock Tomb
- Swords Dance

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 8 SpA / 248 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunder Wave
- Will-O-Wisp

Arceus-Water @ Splash Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Recover

Yveltal @ Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Oblivion Wing
- Sucker Punch
- Taunt

Magearna @ Normalium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heal Bell
- Volt Switch
- Heart Swap
- Fleur Cannon

I've been using Mewtwo for the longest and I feel Mewtwo is hella underused and underappreciated in ubers. I think it performs its best on bulkier teams as it can punch holes in teams and act as a wall breaker. Switching into a well played Mewtwo is p scary if you don't have like Msab or Lunala as it has very good coverage and speed tier. I added a Magearna which has great role compression in a cleric, pivot, Xern counter, and a Ygod/Darkceus switchin which check Mewtwo. I went for Z-Heal bell over pain split to provide the team with a cleric and the team doesn't really have another z user so its w.e . Giratina-o is the hazard control and primary Pdon switchin. I like dual status and dragon pulse with 8spa over hex to break max hp ekillers sub which has potential to be a big problem and cripple darks that give the team a hard time while willo is mainly for SD arcs, Mluke and potentially dusk. I originally had a Fairyceus over Waterceus but I felt Waterceus handles more weak spots than fairy. Its the premier Ho-oh, Z-Zyg, Groundceus, Dragons check with toxic which can help vs opposing support arcs and a Pogre pivot. Ygod is here mainly for Mgar and Dusk/Ultra but its also insanely good rn. Lastly I slapped a Pdon on because its Pdon and used Sd over rocks to help break thru bulkier teams. Thats p much it for the team and I think it has room to outplay everything and from my experience doesn't rely on making the "big play" too much so imo its sample/beginner worthy.
Alright, as quite a few people have asked what I used during ULT to reach such a high gxe I may as well post the team here, even though I don't think it'll get accepted as I don't have that ubers clout. I will just start by saying that the team is by no means perfect, but the meta is in such a position that I have not seen an ubers team that has even come close to perfection. All the samples have major flaws and everyone knows that. However, with this said, I do believe the teams I am submitting are extremely consistent on the whole, reflected by extremely good ladder results. And before you say ladder is irrelevant, remember that sample teams are designed for the ladder, so I believe ladder results are applicable here.

View attachment 186139View attachment 186140View attachment 186141View attachment 186142View attachment 186143View attachment 186144


Choice scarf Xerneas + Choice specs Lunala is a very complimentary core. Scarfed Xerneas struggles against threats such as Dusk Mane, Primal Groudon and Mag, which specs Lunala completely nukes, OHKOing non spdef Mane and 2HKOing spdef don and mag. On the other hand Lunala struggles against darks such as Darkceus, Yveltal and Ttar which Xerneas all pressures. Lunala is able to run coverage moves such as Ice Beam and Focus blast to get around these checks, however. Xerneas also provides aroma + defog support which is extremely useful for any balance team, especially with rest Zygarde C. This core covers Ultra extremely well, as only Knock Ultra can OHKO Lunala with shadow shield intact, and even after Stealth Rock only Outrage can KO which is easily revenged by Xerneas. The next addition Waterceus means that Dusk Mane is covered pretty well, as between that and Lunala it'll have a hard time getting anywhere. Waterceus is also important as it gives additional support VS Ho-Oh as it is able to Toxic it (which is important as this allows specs moongeist to 2HKO it), and judge is able to 2HKO forcing it out. Waterceus also gives Defog support to keep Lunala's shadow shield intact. Ice Beam is not necessary on this set as scarf Xerneas/Coil Zygarde is able to deal with DD Zygarde generally and Dusk Mane/Zygarde can deal with Mega Mence. Waterceus gives extra support vs Groundceus which is important and also gives a switch into Pogre if Pogre comes in on Pdon. Dusk Mane is an extremely important pokemon as it's the main Geo Xern check and is able to remove key threats such as Darkceus and Grondceus, which frees up room for Pdon and Lunala to do much more damage. Double Dance Mane in general is an extremely huge threat, and in addition to this messes with lead exca as it is able set up due to the fact exca usually runs Tomb + Toxic over Earthquake. Defensive Zygarde C is super broken, and I think Zyg C + Waterceus is one of if not the best core in ubers as you pretty much wall every single Pdon set, and pretty safely honestly. Zyg C can easily scout the Pdon set as HP Ice cannot OHKO from full, so if it reveals Fire Blast you can easily go back into Waterceus. Zyg C also adds support to beat huge threats such as Marshadow, Ekiller, SD Pdon, SD Ground, Ho-Oh etc. Glare on Zygarde is complimentary to the team as it means Lunala can outspeed and 2HKO a bunch of Pokemon, and SD Pdon can also set up and smack support arc formes such as a paralysed Groundceus for free. Pdon adds the finishing touch to the team. It was originally Toxic Overheat but I think SD Tomb gives it much more breaking power and gives Ho-Oh teams much more of a hard time, rather than having to rely on Zyg C and not really getting anywhere. This set also punishes base defog Giratina as Precipice at +2 is a 2HKO. Primal Groudon is the main Pogre check and an emergency Xerneas answer if Dusk Mane gets worn down. While this set can't do much to Gira O it can easily lay rocks and then you can switch into Xerneas or Lunala which pressure Gira O immensely. The Pdon EVs may look weird but they serve an important purpose. 48 speed is to outspeed 50% Zygarde with 4 speed evs (just in case they threw the last 4 evs in speed), meaning it can get off the SD, outspeed and smack it with Blades if it weakened. 248 HP with 64 Defense means that EQ from Pogre is a 3HKO and max hp helps ward off hits from Geo Xern; 248 HP means it can survive a +2 Focus blast after rocks in base form at 94 HP. The rest is in attack to deal as much damage as possible.


https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-943130713 VS balance
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-943160363 VS Ho-Oh + Groundceus balance (a skilled player who has reached high elos)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-943239539 (again)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-943201581 VS HO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-943574016 VS Stall (I think this is lance or hyw, you can call this stall a meme all you want but it's reached 1900 and beat skilled players such as garay so that's enough for me to think it's pretty decent)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-944093014 VS Darkceus balance


View attachment 186133 CM Ground is a complete menace. The only real strategy is to go into Waterceus, Toxic, sack Waterceus and then go into Lunala and get an Ice Beam/Psyshock off. This is far from ideal and is by far and large the only Pokemon that can really straight up break this team. Waterceus can switch in safely to support Groundceus and Zygarde checks SD Ground.

View attachment 186134 + View attachment 186135 Defog Ho-Oh + Defog Groundceus stall is a tricky thing to break using this team. In the replays I have shown I can break Defog Groundceus + Defog Ho-Oh balance but stall is another thing altogether. With access to Heal Bell as well, it is difficult to wear these Pokemon down and given the Pdon set it is very difficult to keep rocks up. It can be played around, since Swords Dance Mane, Specs Nala and SD Pdon are all powerful breakers but if the stall player knows what he's doing you will struggle a lot.


This team has reached what I assume is the highest gxe of this generation, at 96.3% without any boosting on a difficult ladder with skilled players, so that's enough for me to think it must be somewhat decent.

The second team I would like to submit for samples is:



I won't give a description of this team as it a resubmission of a team I have posted before. The one change I have made is physical Pogre over Mega Gengar. The main criticisms the team received was that it lacked stall breakers and was weak to Pogre, which I think were reasonably fair criticisms though that didn't take away from the consistency of the team. However, with the addition of physical Pogre this adresses both of these issues. Physical Pogre is a great stall breaker, as it is able to break Chansey with Liquidation. It also makes the team far less Pogre weak, particularly on the physical side as it can switch into an EQ and trade Thunders if necessary. This team peaked 2000 elo, which I also think is probably the highest ELO of this generation achieved fairly, so this a very, very good team.

EDIT: For the second team changed Pogre from a mixed attacker to CM Spout to further improve the stall MU, as CM Spout is much better against stall and also to overwhelm Ferrothorn. I have also changed Ho-Oh from Recover to Whirlwind as an emergency Geo Xern check if Primal Groudon gets worn down.
Im putting both these teams together to start off with as they've been rejected for the same type of reasoning. The choice of the 6 Pokemon is good, however it is unclear what the team goal is along with the synergy of sets, this is more a glaring issue in Zenithals team.

Zenithal

Choice Specs Lunala is very dead weight and rather inefficient at performing its role, Lunala being choice locked sucks.

This team being rather slow also benefits hugely from Trick Room utility and would be much more effective, having a more bulkier offensive steel, this would make the potency of Necrozma-DM's ability to break or sweep greater in addition.

A team weak to Spikes needs a more robust defogger other than Scarf Xerneas which honestly seems to serve as a band aid on this team. Lunala is the most expendable member of the team, utilising Defog Lunala would very beneficial for the team as it would ease the hazards matchup, Lunala is more capable of filling the defog role, taking a lot of pressure off Xerneas. Geomancy Xerneas can therefore be considered providing the team with an additional breaker / winning condition and improve the offense matchup.

The Primal Groudon EVs are rather inefficient, they reach no noteable benchmark such as Max Speed Necrozma-DM and does not outspeed arceus formes after a Rock Tomb drop, making the move somewhat redundant.

Other tiny optimisations could include adding 12 speed evs to Zygarde-C this would allow Zygarde to outpace Mega Mewtwo-Y After Glare in a pinch. Special defense investment could also be considered or offensive investment with coil also work on this team.

I do however appreciate the amount of effort put in this team and the results you have yielded are evident. But as discussed, how the team achieves its goals / winning conditions is not very clear and this is not helpful to the average player trying to use the team, as they will find utilising this team to the best of its ability complicated. I do however congratulate you on the peak and results you have obtained though and I do recognise the potential of the team.

If you are interested, during the discussion with the members involved, I did draft up an example version of the kind of team that we feel would have met the requirements defined to be a sample team: https://pokepast.es/0068dad14b73a3c3

Holy Ghost

This team is very close to getting everything right. As Exiline pointed out Bold Arceus-Water is crucial for marshadow. Sadly the Giratina-O and Primal Groudon sets need completely reworking. The team lacks Stealth Rock which is an important aspect of any ubers team. discussing this, we feel Groudon should be Offensive Overheat + Stealth Rock. There is also an issue with the matchup against fatter teams, Stallbreaker Yveltal would fit absolutely optimal here. Calm Giratina also completely takes away from the offensive pressure Giratina requires to function, it needs to be offensive, 252 hp / 204 spa / 52 spdef with a modest nature is absolutely robust enough to deal with all primal groudon variants, provide more offensive pressure on teams and still fulfill the role required on the team.

Similar to Zenithals team, this team would require too many set changes / ev optimisations to rework the build to be accepted as a sample team. Like Zenithal, I have also taken the time to kindly draft up an optimised version of the team: https://pokepast.es/375a703ee83526be

Alright so basically I don't know who made this team and I don't remember how I got it since its not here, but I felt like it should be here cause I'm like 40-2 with this team on ladder and it's really fun too. It's pure offense and the person who made this more or less thought everything through so I think it should be here.



So how I use this team is that I prioritize rocks and then do damage with Mence and Ogre so that either Groudon or Solgaleo can clean up later, Marshadow helps check a lot of mons in this tier and has pursuit to trap things like gengar and random psychics. What this team struggles against is Ultra Necrozma with SD which outspeeds everything and at +2 can pretty much ohko the whole team, so you better chip it so that Marshadow can trap it or kill it with sneak.

Some replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-921851830
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-921560617
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-921310238



https://pokepast.es/b1ac5ac74349c751

PS- if you think this doesn't belong here then delete it by all means.
Rejected. This team is an iteration of a RMT by Minority which was removed for being no longer meta representative, since this was a team that featured once before there will probably be an internal discussion whether an up to date version of the team should be featured in sample teams, but the original builder will be credited. Good team none the less.

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 104 SpD / 152 Spe
Mild Nature
- Swords Dance
- Eruption
- Precipice Blades
- Rock Tomb

Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Origin Pulse
- Calm Mind
- Thunder
- Ice Beam

Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 76 Atk / 184 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Curse
- Roost

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Thunder Wave
- Hex
- Draco Meteor

Yveltal @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 132 Spe
Timid Nature
- Foul Play
- Oblivion Wing
- U-turn
- Toxic

Arceus-Fairy @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Judgment
- Earth Power
- Recover
This team/team type has been pretty popular as of late (I've seen it multiple times during my ongoing ssnl run and use a variant myself) and represents a basic form of these u-turn based primal abuse teams. Fairy Arceus is used to compress Stealth Rock while covering the team's weakness to Marshadow or Yveltal, Scizor exists as a form of speed control as well as a fairy check and baits in various things which either Primal can abuse for free spout/erupt turns. Yveltal represents the team's primary method of speed control, a possible cleaner, as well as another u-turn user. Giratina-O synergies with Kyogre to answer primal Groudon without losing too much momentum and is the team's defogger. Kyogre and Groudon are the stars of the show, Groudon abusing it's absurdly powerful Eruption and Kyogre using it's water STAB to blast massive holes into teams. It's a very momentum based playstyle, and typically, things turn into a DPS race if you will to KO as many key pokemon as fast as possible.

edit: Made some minor changes to better deal with support arcs (specifically waterceus) and somewhat help with mgar.
Accepted

This team covers all the bases a Mega Scizor team requires and should be featured as a sample team. It struggles a bit against The yveltal + Hex Mega Gengar cores, but it isnt too hard. The Giratina-O spread will be optimised and Groudon will be changed
from Eruption to Overheat for sake of consistency with the fire move coverage, a verdict was reached this variant of Groudon is simply not fast enough to take advantage of Eruption and Mixed Swords Dance has more breakability with Overheat throughout the course of the game.

https://pokepast.es/4e60b0360e9e1501

Here is my team, and I've had a lot of success with it. #2 on the ubers ladder. Looking for feedback though.

Description:

The goal here is to play around your opponent and not directly engage. The first order of priority is capitalizing on the first move. This is most commonly done with a glare from zyg, but there are spD swap (ferro and ho oh) if the opponent starts with a special attacker. Otherwise, the creep begins. A glare is thrown out, and then a defogger comes in. Ho oh can take the SR damage due to the glare and leftovers. Ho oh can abuse the glare with sub, and any cleric with brave bird. Ho oh can also beat out stallmons with toxic, and doesn't get it's sacred fire pp stalled by giratina. The yveltal serves as an additional physical check, especially to paralyzed boosted pdons and necrozmas. Goth works to trap and win a stall match, ferro starts the offense with a stealth rock after their sr setter is worn down or there is an opportunity, and yveltal can knock off the other yveltal's life orb or metronome to neuter it, so arceus-g doesn't have to fear oblivion wing spam. The arceus functions as a decent late game sweeper once SR is set, or could even be the lead if a pdon lead is scouted. Overall it is a very versatile stall team that combines two defoggers with a lot of hard counter swaps.
Rejected.

Without Grass move ferrothorn, Kyogre is way too threatening, outside of this there are too many Autoloss matchups for the team to be considered such as SD Arceus-Ground, Variants of Ultra Necrozma. The team lacks a clear / common goal and a winning condition. Gothitelle is not meta representative as of right now in Ubers, the majority of the sets lack any kind of team synergy, are sub-optimal and concede free turns to the opponent.

I would recommend looking up the on-site analyses on how you could improve the sets of your team or seek further advice on the rate my team section of the forums or even the Ubers teambuilding workshop thread for further feedback. Sample teams thread is for refined teams to feature as a showcase to help newer players to get into the metagame.


MMX Bulky Offense - Jhonx

This team is built around Mewtwo-X + Ho-Oh, its a core I found today while I was playing back Ubers after my really long quit, Mewtwo checks Ekiller and Dark Types, While Ho-Oh checks Fairy types and all Yveltal non Toxic / CB, Primal Groudon bring me here Electric Inmunity and Kyogre-Primal check with a fast set to outspeed opposing Groudon, Xerneas here its a check to Dark Types since the main core can be overwhelmed by Yveltal and chose a Specs set to maintain offensive pressure, also it has Aromateraphy to heal the team in some circunstances, finally Yveltal Bulky Scarf set to Defog safe, Foul Play threats like Marshadow, Arceus, etc. Finally Necrozma-DM with Ultra Z so I can hit Xerneas with DM Forme and can switch to Ultra vs other match ups, Rock Blast here to deal Smeargle lead, so Necrozma wins the 1v1 and avoid the Sticky Webs in the field.
This team features the lack of a support arceus which really hinders the team,it wants a lot of role compression. Ho-Oh and Kyogre are too threatening to this team to feature as a sample team. Primal Kyogre basically picks if it gets a free turn and Kyogre in the USM Metagame simply cannot be ignored.


Choice Band Ho-Oh Bulky Offense

Arceus-Ground can scout for a Rock-type move from Primal Groudon while acting as a sturdy Defogger that can keep rocks off the field and check threats like Mega Salamence and Zygarde-C for Ho-Oh. Primal Groudon covers this core's Water-type weakness, having maximum Speed investment to at worst tie with Primal Kyogre and Stone Edge to snipe opposing Ho-Oh, which can be problematic for some teammates. Charti Berry Yveltal is the team's physical backbone against threats like Marshadow, Extreme Killer Arceus and Ultra Necrozma. Magearna provides a solid check to Geomancy Xerneas and Dark-types, easing the pressure on Ho-Oh, and cleric support which is invaluable since most of the team is susceptible to Toxic. Mega Mewtwo X helps to break bulky teams while giving us a method of speed control.
  • MM2X lives +2 Extreme Speed from Arceus after taking rocks damage as base forme Mewtwo. Naive is used over Jolly since it gives a better roll for Ice Beam to OHKO base forme Zygarde.
  • Magearna underspeeds Chansey/Alomuk to get a slow Volt Switch off since the rest of the team lacks a Toxic immunity
  • Groudon's spread lives 0 Atk Precipice Blades from opposing Primal Groudon and 2 Ice Beams from Primal Kyogre after rocks
  • Arceus-Ground outspeeds Mega Lucario and lives Primal Groudon's Eruption from full
I realize this is pretty similar to the team that Jhonx~ had but it is, IMO a little more defensively solid. (I did not copy his build, I modified something I created earlier from here so the overlap is purely coincidential.)
While this is a better iteration of Jhonx's team, it still faces the same glaring Issues, Primal Kyogre and opposing Ho-Oh are too much to be ignored. A variation with Arceus-Water and Scarf Defog Yveltal is worth looking into for a team.

Also despite the OP stateing that you're not supposed to submit more than one at a time, I really really think a solid balance build needs to be featured. Balance is a major playstyle in Ubers, yet the sample teams gives newcomers the impression that it's all hyper offense/bulky offense, which is not true at all. So I would also like to submit:


Ferrothorn Balance

Support Dusk Mane is a fairly standard teammate for Ferrothorn, since it checks Xerneas and sets Stealth Rock, allowing Ferrothorn to run Spikes. These two share an obvious Fire-type weakness, so Arceus-Water provides the team with an essential defensive backbone that is able to check threats like Ho-Oh and mixed variants of Primal Groudon. It additionally takes some pressure off of Ferrothorn to check other threats, like Water Spout Primal Kyogre and Calm Mind Arceus-Ground. Xerneas covers the Fighting- and Dark- weaknesses of Ferrothorn/Dusk, respectively, and provides a method of speed control to revenge kill fast threats like Marshadow and Choice Scarf Yveltal. Yveltal is the team's physical wall, being a solid pivot into threats like offensive Dusk Mane, Ultra Necrozma, and Swords Dance Arceus formes, while also being able to stallbreak against bulkier teams. Marshadow serves as a general-purpose revenge killer/wallbreaker, that additionally provides Pursuit trapping utility to eliminate Mega Gengar/Gothitelle, which could otherwise remove key members of the team with little fear. It is using a Choice Band set instead of Life Orb to put more pressure on defensive Pokemon like Mega Sableye and Ho-Oh, which wall both of our hazard setters, and because the team has adequate backbone to handle the loss of momentum if it locks into the wrong move (for example, Yveltal can pivot into Extreme Killer if it's locked into a Ghost-type move, or Lunala if it's locked into Close Combat). Xerneas, Yveltal, and Marshadow synergize particularly well with our hazard setters, as not only are most of their checks weak to Spikes, but Ferrothorn/Dusk can easily switch into most of said checks (such as support Dusk/Magearna for Xerneas, and Fairy-types/support Arceus for the other two) and use them as opportunities to set up hazards.
This team is very similar to the one that Rasengan777 posted earlier, however, there are a few key differences:
  • The choice of Arceus-Water over Zygarde as the answer to Fire-types ensures the team can properly handle threats like mixed Rock Polish Primal Groudon (and other niche mons with Fire-type coverage capable of hitting Zygarde, like Kyurem-W and Reshiram).
  • Yveltal significantly improves the matchup against opposing balances, since it can stallbreak and prevent hazards/Defog from the opposing side with Taunt. It also gives us a Ground immunity/Spikes immunity, while the other team lacks one.
  • Having a Dark-type means we aren't exclusively reliant on Pursuit Marshadow to deal with Ghost-types.
Rejected

This is a very interesting team. Though it covers most bases for a team, it is rather complicated to use as a sample team, Sample teams need to be user-friendly and catered towards average or lower skilled players and be easy to use. A variant with Bulk Up Marshadowium-Z, Scarf Yveltal as the Defog user and Geomancy Xerneas is worth exploring for a personal team however.

I’m posting another team here because I hate the lack of (good) Stall teams in this thread and as a sample. Attached below is probably my most successful team that got me to top 30 multiple times.

Lugia Stall

There really isn’t much to say about this team that can’t be comprehended at a glance. I prefer Lugia’s bulk over lunala even if it makes the necro mu a little more difficult, it aids in so many other fashions that I believe the pros outweigh the cons.
SR>over defog on Arc for obvious reasons, but I also had success running CM. Inb4 the question arises about my spread. I prefer the bulk, but running the common spread with timid is perfectly viable with this team as well.
Roar>willow on Gira because I found in my matches that Roar was accomplishing what I wanted from willow just more consistently. I run more Def because realistically I’m not staying in on pogre anyways.
I find the rest of my team to be self explanatory.
I’m glad you took the time to read my response and if anyone has any questions or suggestions please don’t hesitate.
Rejected

There is too much matchup fishing for this to be accepted as a stall team. Outrage Necrozma Ultra decimates this stall team and it has troubles against CM Lunala. Mega Sableye isnt Meta reprsentative. Stall teams that utilise Mega Gengar are much more worth exploring for Stall as it provides the user with workable options for dealing with Ultra Necrozma. CM Darkceus has high potential to be an autoloss for the team. The general framework of the team is good however.

Council Addition to Sample teams:

Calm Mind Mega Mewtwo-Y Bulky Offense By
Garay oak
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Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Mewtwonite Y
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 40 Def / 216 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psystrike
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 SpA / 104 SpD / 152 Spe
Mild Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Overheat
- Rock Tomb

Arceus-Fairy @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Earth Power
- Toxic
- Recover

Yveltal @ Leftovers
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 252 HP / 72 SpD / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Toxic
- Defog
- Roost

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Solganium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Atk / 152 SpD / 24 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake
- Moonlight

Marshadow @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Spectral Thief
- Close Combat
- Shadow Sneak
- Pursuit


Short Description: This team was discussed internally and was provided by Garay Oak to be included as a sample team on the thread. There is a great need for a Mega Mewtwo Y teams. Mega Mewtwo Y has seen a great deal of success in the modern metagame being very threatening against offense teams due to its high speed and access to calm mind. This specific team has had a great deal of success, featuring in UPL 7. A more indepth description of how the team functions will be provided in the OP of the thread.

I would like to thank everyone for the paitence for the submission of teams to be reviewed and I apologise for the time it has taken, I will do my best to ensure submissions are responded to swiftly and maintaining thread activity. I will also do my best to make sure bias is removed from any submissions and make it more transparent as how teams are reviewed and who actually reviewed / discussed the submissions with me.

Come early october, I will discuss whether the thread will close in the beginning of November and close team submission to capture the end of the generation with the most quality sample teams to be represented in the thread at the very end of the generation so please submit away.
 
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bigtalk

a warm breeze whistles by
is a Pre-Contributor
Rejected

This is a very interesting team. Though it covers most bases for a team, it is rather complicated to use as a sample team, Sample teams need to be user-friendly and catered towards average or lower skilled players and be easy to use. A variant with Bulk Up Marshadowium-Z, Scarf Yveltal as the Defog user and Geomancy Xerneas is worth exploring for a personal team however.
Thanks for reviewing, but I respectfully disagree with your reasoning for rejection. I made it sound all complicated in the description, but IMO this team is actually pretty braindead to use; there is much less need to think or make plays compared to a bulky offense team. See ogre? Go ferro, click spikes/leech. See xern? Go dusk, click rocks/toxic. See fire type? Go waterceus, click toxic. See physical attacker? Go to yvel, click fp. Unless you have an unfavorable matchup, the impetus is mostly on your opponent to predict your switches and prevent you from spikestacking them. The only major plays you have to make are like in matchups with mgar where you have to decide whether or not to pursuit with marsh.

Here is a replay to illustrate my point. My opponent was using a team very similar to the one I posted but with zyg > waterceus and xern was specs, made next to 0 plays, and still would have won had I not gotten a lucky crit.
Short Description: This team was discussed internally and was provided by Garay Oak to be included as a sample team on the thread. There is a great need for a Mega Mewtwo Y teams. Mega Mewtwo Y has seen a great deal of success in the modern metagame being very threatening against offense teams due to its high speed and access to calm mind. This specific team has had a great deal of success, featuring in UPL 7. A more indepth description of how the team functions will be provided in the OP of the thread.
I don't want to come off as overly critical, but I think it's strange how this was accepted when the MMX teams that Jhonx/I submitted were criticized as being too Ho-Oh weak. Defensive Ho-Oh walls the entire team except for Pdon, so a common stall core of Ho-Oh + Gira should just autowin against this team. Dusk Mane is total bait for it, and the only concrete way to punish it besides Pdon is Toxic from Arceus-Fairy/Yveltal, which it can shrug off with Regen or cleric support. It can spam Toxic versus everything for free and there are no status absorbers. Pdon is also the sole fire resist on the team, and Ho-Oh walls the sole flying resist, so offensive variants can just spam their STABs and murk everything. Another problem that stems from having a single Fire resist is that mixed RP Pdon can set up on Mewtwo Y/Dusk Mane, and KO everything with Fire Blast/Pblades after chipping Arceus-Fairy and Yveltal. I think the team is a tad weak to Fire-types to be featured as a sample.
 
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This team features the lack of a support arceus which really hinders the team,it wants a lot of role compression. Ho-Oh and Kyogre are too threatening to this team to feature as a sample team. Primal Kyogre basically picks if it gets a free turn and Kyogre in the USM Metagame simply cannot be ignored.
Short Description: This team was discussed internally and was provided by Garay Oak to be included as a sample team on the thread. There is a great need for a Mega Mewtwo Y teams. Mega Mewtwo Y has seen a great deal of success in the modern metagame being very threatening against offense teams due to its high speed and access to calm mind. This specific team has had a great deal of success, featuring in UPL 7. A more indepth description of how the team functions will be provided in the OP of the thread.
I don't get it, how can you claim a team is 'weak' to Primal Kyogre and Ho-oh when the team gives neither barely a chance to get in and has checks for both and then accept a team that's 6-0'd by Rock Polish Primal Groudon? I get it has tour usage, but it seems somewhat hypocritical to me.
 
Garay Oak's team dont get 6-0d by Pdon RP, While I agree that its a huge threat, Arceus Fairy + Yveltal with these evs can handle Pdon by Toxic Stall, even if u manage to set up vs something, the chip dmg is enough to bring him down, but that let ur team rly weakened
 

bigtalk

a warm breeze whistles by
is a Pre-Contributor
I don't get it, how can you claim a team is 'weak' to Primal Kyogre and Ho-oh when the team gives neither barely a chance to get in and has checks for both and then accept a team that's 6-0'd by Rock Polish Primal Groudon? I get it has tour usage, but it seems somewhat hypocritical to me.
To be fair, my team has Arceus-Ground which does give free turns to Ho-Oh/Pogre. However, my team also has max speed Pdon with Attack investment and Stone Edge, which is why I don't consider it overly Ho-Oh/Pogre weak (Ho-Oh is also max speed so it's not necessarily forced out by Pogre). The team that was accepted on the other hand, it has special Pdon, with -Def nature to make sure that offensive Ho-Oh has no switch-ins, no Attack investment, not max Speed, using Rock Tomb which will do like 60 to defensive Ho-Oh, plus partners like NDM that are complete bait for these two. So yeah I think it's a bit contradictory to accept this team after saying mine was weak to those threats, both should be held to the same standard.
Garay Oak's team dont get 6-0d by Pdon RP, While I agree that its a huge threat, Arceus Fairy + Yveltal with these evs can handle Pdon by Toxic Stall, even if u manage to set up vs something, the chip dmg is enough to bring him down, but that let ur team rly weakened
It does get 6-0d. Toxic stall would only work if Pdon tries to set up on Arceus-Fairy/Yveltal. If you set up on something else like NDM/MMY, then its gonna 2HKO Arceus-Fairy with Fire Blast before it can Toxic + Recover, so you have to throw out another 2-3 mons before you can pick it off with sneak. Yveltal will drop to Fire Blast after rocks.
 
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Bomb Voyage

Banned deucer.
Garay Oak's team dont get 6-0d by Pdon RP, While I agree that its a huge threat, Arceus Fairy + Yveltal with these evs can handle Pdon by Toxic Stall, even if u manage to set up vs something, the chip dmg is enough to bring him down, but that let ur team rly weakened
The thing is, Mixed Primal Groudon is best used in the mid-late game when things have already been weakened and is often paired with other late game sweepers like Geomancy Xerneas and a smart player can properly combine the two to either severely dent or sweep that team. Since these two mons are premiere offensive threats, most MMY teams should have some level of counterplay to them.



https://pokepast.es/af5541100c3be533

This is a fairly standard team I've been using for a few weeks. I think it's adequate enough for new players to use and learn the basics of this tier. Primal Groudon is the premiere threat in this tier and this team features its most common set, Swords Dance + Stealth Rock. Next, I paired Primal Groudon with a Physically Defensive Arceus-Water to have some level of counterplay to Primal Kyogre switchins, though it should be noted that a full powered Modest Water Spout can 2HKO Arceus-Water and so some degree of caution is required. An additional benefit of Arceus-Water is that it can stand up to and defeat Mixed Primal Groudon via Toxic, a threat every team should be aware of. Next, with the recent surge in Yveltal usage, this team features Scarf Xerneas. While not as prominent now as it was a few months back, Scarf Xerneas provides a decent degree of role compression, acting as a much needed form of speed control for this team and also serves as an emergency cleric. However, I feel that the main reason why Scarf Xerneas was chosen was simply because every successful team in USM Ubers should have some method of dealing with a boosted Ultra Necrozma, which is one of the few threats that can sweeped unprepared teams. Specially Defensive Swords Dance Dusk Mane Necrozma may seem like an odd choice at first, but the added bulk allows it to consistently stand up to the likes of Geomancy Xerneas, another threat that all teams in USM Ubers should be aware of, as unprepared teams will be either severely dented or swept. To grant a more solid physically defensive structure, Physically Defensive Zygarde was opted for, this set can reliably defeat almost every single Extreme Killer Arceus, yet another threat that new players should be aware of. The set is pretty standard, with Glare being chosen over Dragon Tail to paralyze incoming threats. Lastly, a Bulky Mega Salamence was selected primarily to improve the Webs Matchup against Smargle and overall serve as a reliable form of hazard removal and defeat most Hyper Offense leads 1v1. This team is easy enough to use but please feel free to make any changes as you wish. Enjoy USM Ubers, it's a really great tier to learn.
 
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I don't want to come off as overly critical, but I think it's strange how this was accepted when the MMX teams that Jhonx/I submitted were criticized as being too Ho-Oh weak. Defensive Ho-Oh walls the entire team except for Pdon, so a common stall core of Ho-Oh + Gira should just autowin against this team. Dusk Mane is total bait for it, and the only concrete way to punish it besides Pdon is Toxic from Arceus-Fairy/Yveltal, which it can shrug off with Regen or cleric support. It can spam Toxic versus everything for free and there are no status absorbers. Pdon is also the sole fire resist on the team, and Ho-Oh walls the sole flying resist, so offensive variants can just spam their STABs and murk everything. Another problem that stems from having a single Fire resist is that mixed RP Pdon can set up on Mewtwo Y/Dusk Mane, and KO everything with Fire Blast/Pblades after chipping Arceus-Fairy and Yveltal. I think the team is a tad weak to Fire-types to be featured as a sample.
I don't get it, how can you claim a team is 'weak' to Primal Kyogre and Ho-oh when the team gives neither barely a chance to get in and has checks for both and then accept a team that's 6-0'd by Rock Polish Primal Groudon? I get it has tour usage, but it seems somewhat hypocritical to me.
I'll try to address each point raised in as much detail and honestly as possible.

I'll start with the concerns raised about the claimed weakness of Rock Polish Primal Groudon for the submitted Mega Mewtwo Y offense team and the arguments against the rejection of the Mega Mewtwo-X teams since these are both concerns brought up by both of you and I hope this helps clear the air.

I'd like to reiterate, there is a team of us who all put their evaluation on the teams to remove bias and an overall conclusion was made on every team, I don't solely make decisions otherwise it would be heavily biased. I will be brutally honest, yes I do have more input than the others and I'm tasked with making a final overall decision since I am the project leader. I do think calling me hypocritical directly is taking this a bit too far.

I'll start with the Mega Mewtwo X teams, I guess I can understand the frustrations for the rejection of these cause on paper they don't seem like bad teams. The Issue with Primal Kyogre is that it needs to be handled offensively. The problem comes with the nature of the archetype of teams presented they're more like balances and need to have certain criteria in order to function against Primal Kyogre or have adequate switch ins such as Ferrothorn / Blissey or a Pivot such as Toxic Arceus-Water would be acceptable as an example.

You are completely correct in saying Kyogre can't switch into much, yes, but lets break it down further than that. Think about how games actually play out, no one is ever going to switch in Kyogre into something like Choice Banded Ho-Oh, the issue is comes with free turns, you're faced with a choice, lets use Timid Primal Kyogre for example since that's the best and most common used set right now.

Primal Kyogre is easily capable of taking at least 2 Pokemon off you in a game without solid revenge killing plan, and for a balance team this is too much damage to be taken as you end up losing valuable pokemon and end up losing the game to the other members of the opposing team as a result. You have no practical water move switch ins as you have both opted for Jolly Primal groudon, which runs the risk of taking ice beam, this risk is actually increased on bigtalks team as Ice Beam is a free play against Arceus-Ground who actually does very little against Primal Kyogre, therefore Kyogre getting free turns eventually ends up you losing the game. The worst scenario is Kyogre coming in for free on Primal Groudon because you are forced to lose a Pokemon 100% of the time even if you decide to go for the tie which if you lose, puts you in a even worse position.

Similar goes for offensive Ho-Oh (mainly CB), a perfectly played Offensive Ho-oh is just devastating there's just no adequate switch ins on a balance team, you aren't even running stone edge lure on Mega Mewtwo-X which makes this issue worse.

Jhonx's team also has a huge glaring issue which is worse than both and I'm really sorry that I forgot to mention that. Its AoA Mega Gengar Counterplay is unacceptable with Stealth Rock up, Scarf Yveltal with Foul Play doesn't even KO it, Primal Groudon is 2hko'd by Shadow Ball, Your best play is to go for a speed tie with MMX, a team completely ignoring a S rank threat will never be included. This is arguably worse than the Kyogre / Ho-Oh issues which yes, Bigtalk's version does fix with the inclusion of Arceus-Ground which hard stops most common sets of Mega Gengar.

The teams don't simply meet the standards that are required for a Ho-Oh Balance team to be featured in samples, there are so many wants a Ho-Oh team needs to achieve. Like I said with a change of Bigtalks team with a toxic Arceus-Water and a Scarf Yveltal might lead it to actually being considered to be accepted.

However, Mega Mewtwo X is also not Meta representative right now and a significant way to improve these teams would be to honestly change the mega slot to Mega Gengar with Thunder, this would allow you to trap and remove a weakened Primal Kyogre or Ho-Oh from play and considerably improve the matchup for the team against them, while bringing other team benefits. I understand however this takes away from the core idea of the team and you may not want to do this.

-------------

Moving on, I don't understand the claim that the Mega Mewtwo -Y team is 6-0'd by Rock Polish Primal Groudon, that is a bold statement to make without actually fully researching your points, yes I will acknowledge you the point it is something to be wary of in a matchup, but it is not unbeatable by any means to the point you lose to Rock Polish Primal Groudon teams outright everytime. Every pokemon on that team is able to chunk it for at least 45% minimum, so setup chances are not exactly that free, putting it in revenge killing range, so the damage is not as huge as you think, some pokemon come out victorious at full, too. The Point of Mega Mewtwo Y is the advantage it has against offense in the early game and being a fantastic revenge killer along with Marshadow, which prevents threats like Rock Polish Primal Groudon winning in the end game or from completely sweeping the team, the team has enough options to deal with it offensively and not be large of a threat to be accepted as a sample team.

On paper, all teams in the tier actually struggle against Rock Polish Primal Groudon as a whole to a degree, thats the nature of the pokemon, it's S+ for a reason, if a team covers it adequately enough, it is good enough to deal with it. Rock Polish isn't the most used set or the biggest threat of set to deal with right now, Jolly swords Dance Pdon or Mixed Swords Dance / Overheat Rocks are much more common and problematic to face which this team aims to cover better.

Furthermore, a replay from Ubers Premier League 7 between Garay Oak and a Kyogref4n can be found here: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ubers-436954 - This replay features mixed Rock Polish Primal Groudon and the team is able to overcome it with ease, which I hope helps to cement my points.

As for the defensive Ho-Oh bigtalk raised, yes this can be a slight issue but it is indeed beatable with good offensive pressure options that this team offers, its also the reason toxic is on Arceus-Fairy, to help deter its effectiveness so precautions have been taken to deal with it considerably more. Defensive Ho-Oh is rare in the meta and is honestly not what i'd consider on the meta threat list right now either.

I'd also like to say no sample team will ever be perfect, its impossible for a team to be perfect and they will have threats they can struggle against, but I am in the process of writing up detailed descriptions on every sample team, how to use them, what they strong against etc in order to inform our users, but please understand this is a work in progress and something Im expecting to finish soon.

----------------------

Thanks for reviewing, but I respectfully disagree with your reasoning for rejection. I made it sound all complicated in the description, but IMO this team is actually pretty braindead to use; there is much less need to think or make plays compared to a bulky offense team. See ogre? Go ferro, click spikes/leech. See xern? Go dusk, click rocks/toxic. See fire type? Go waterceus, click toxic. See physical attacker? Go to yvel, click fp. Unless you have an unfavorable matchup, the impetus is mostly on your opponent to predict your switches and prevent you from spikestacking them. The only major plays you have to make are like in matchups with mgar where you have to decide whether or not to pursuit with marsh.

Here is a replay to illustrate my point. My opponent was using a team very similar to the one I posted but with zyg > waterceus and xern was specs, made next to 0 plays, and still would have won had I not gotten a lucky crit.
I understand this rejection may come off as harsh to you, I honestly feel like you're a capable builder and player, but your teams need to meta representative to be included. Furhermore I was generous to even evaluate and give you feedback as you ignored the rules stated in the OP of the thread, instead I could have just simply ignored this submission, but I would have felt bad about it.

It does not feature Primal Groudon on a balance team, which building a new team with your concept significantly brings a lot of benefits to your team. Yes I know teams like this can get success, I've seen players like Exiline win with teams like this, yes its a good enough team, the issue is the skill floor required to gain consistent results with it.

I'd say the only acceptable Pdonless teams for Samples would be Stall teams and honestly even that is pushing it. The inclusion of Primal groudon would lower the difficulty and what skill floor is required to pilot the team, Its a pokemon which even the below average of players can get a lot out of. It may be braindead to you and to the average user I'm sorry to say its not, they need to be user friendly.

You're a good builder and I'm always looking for people to contribute to this project more often, and I'm sure you're capable of building and posting meta representative teams, I'd be more than happy to evaluate them and potentially accept them. I do appreciate you have taken the time to contribute to the project and I'm pleased to see teams submitted by others and I honestly hope this continues. If you want kinds of teams I'm looking to accept at the moment: Ferrothorn spikes balances, More mega Gengar teams, a strong Ho-Oh balance( but that will probably come internally) and honestly Hyper Offense teams at this point of the meta as no one honestly uses strong hazard controls anymore and this beats out the bulky offense dominant meta USM Ubers is.

In conclusion, I hope this satisfies all your points raised, if you have any further concerns about how sample teams projectis organised or how I run it as the leader of the project, you are more than welcome to raise them with someone above me such as a Ubers Forum Moderator (Dream) or the Ubers Tiering Leader (Nayrz), but I do hope I have been able to clear the air with any concerns and frustrations you have had and thank you for raising them.
 

bigtalk

a warm breeze whistles by
is a Pre-Contributor
I'll start with the Mega Mewtwo X teams, I guess I can understand the frustrations for the rejection of these cause on paper they don't seem like bad teams. The Issue with Primal Kyogre is that it needs to be handled offensively. The problem comes with the nature of the archetype of teams presented they're more like balances and need to have certain criteria in order to function against Primal Kyogre or have adequate switch ins such as Ferrothorn / Blissey or a Pivot such as Toxic Arceus-Water would be acceptable as an example.

You are completely correct in saying Kyogre can't switch into much, yes, but lets break it down further than that. Think about how games actually play out, no one is ever going to switch in Kyogre into something like Choice Banded Ho-Oh, the issue is comes with free turns, you're faced with a choice, lets use Timid Primal Kyogre for example since that's the best and most common used set right now.

Primal Kyogre is easily capable of taking at least 2 Pokemon off you in a game without solid revenge killing plan, and for a balance team this is too much damage to be taken as you end up losing valuable pokemon and end up losing the game to the other members of the opposing team as a result. You have no practical water move switch ins as you have both opted for Jolly Primal groudon, which runs the risk of taking ice beam, this risk is actually increased on bigtalks team as Ice Beam is a free play against Arceus-Ground who actually does very little against Primal Kyogre, therefore Kyogre getting free turns eventually ends up you losing the game. The worst scenario is Kyogre coming in for free on Primal Groudon because you are forced to lose a Pokemon 100% of the time even if you decide to go for the tie which if you lose, puts you in a even worse position.

Similar goes for offensive Ho-Oh (mainly CB), a perfectly played Offensive Ho-oh is just devastating there's just no adequate switch ins on a balance team, you aren't even running stone edge lure on Mega Mewtwo-X which makes this issue worse.
Yes, this is 100% true. What I was trying to say was, does this not apply to Garay's team as well? I don't see any CB Ho-Oh or water resists on that team either. If Arceus-Ground is bait for them on my team, so is Dusk Mane on that one.
[...] Every pokemon on that team is able to chunk it for at least 45% minimum, so setup chances are not exactly that free, putting it in revenge killing range, so the damage is not as huge as you think [...]

Furthermore, a replay from Ubers Premier League 7 between Garay Oak and a Kyogref4n can be found here: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ubers-436954 - This replay features mixed Rock Polish Primal Groudon and the team is able to overcome it with ease, which I hope helps to cement my points.
I believe the reason Garay was able to win that game was, well first of all the opponent was forced to set up in front of a +1 MMY which is not ideal. Second of all, he played smartly and did not sack something to Groudon until after it had Rock Polish'd. The general issue is, you can never switch in front of RP Groudon lest it get free setup, and that may be difficult for newer players to grasp.

In a different scenario, suppose Groudon has gotten a free switch into Dusk Mane, and lets say you need Dusk Mane healthy for their Xerneas. In this case, if you switch as they Rock Polish you're doomed, but if you stay in on fire move you're also doomed to lose to GeoXern. In short, there's no reliable way of dealing with Groudon in what is a common scenario.
Jolly swords Dance Pdon or Mixed Swords Dance / Overheat Rocks are much more common and problematic to face which this team aims to cover better.
I do not see the team being much better against other mixed variants of Pdon. Doesn't it just get a kill everytime by clicking Overheat, if Fairyceus is statused/below 100%?
I understand this rejection may come off as harsh to you, I honestly feel like you're a capable builder and player, but your teams need to meta representative to be included. Furhermore I was generous to even evaluate and give you feedback as you ignored the rules stated in the OP of the thread, instead I could have just simply ignored this submission, but I would have felt bad about it.

It does not feature Primal Groudon on a balance team, which building a new team with your concept significantly brings a lot of benefits to your team. Yes I know teams like this can get success, I've seen players like Exiline win with teams like this, yes its a good enough team, the issue is the skill floor required to gain consistent results with it.

I'd say the only acceptable Pdonless teams for Samples would be Stall teams and honestly even that is pushing it. The inclusion of Primal groudon would lower the difficulty and what skill floor is required to pilot the team, Its a pokemon which even the below average of players can get a lot out of. It may be braindead to you and to the average user I'm sorry to say its not, they need to be user friendly.
Yes and I am thankful for the fact you reviewed it, I just disagreed with your logic. As for being Pdon-less I think the team does a good job of patching up the holes that would normally result from its exclusion, such as, being Kyogre-weak (Ferrothorn + Arceus-Water) or being Xerneas-weak (support Dusk Mane). However, I guess whether or not being Pdon-less raises the skill ceiling can be a subjective matter, so if that is your reasoning for not accepting then I won't push it any further.
 
Yes, this is 100% true. What I was trying to say was, does this not apply to Garay's team as well? I don't see any CB Ho-Oh or water resists on that team either. If Arceus-Ground is bait for them on my team, so is Dusk Mane on that one.
Because its a different archetype of team, no offense team ever has a ho-oh switch in, because they dont need one. they have sheer offensive pressure, you'll find a salamence on offense at best at times. Offense pressure prevents ho-oh from having free turns
I believe the reason Garay was able to win that game was, well first of all the opponent was forced to set up in front of a +1 MMY which is not ideal. Second of all, he played smartly and did not sack something to Groudon until after it had Rock Polish'd. The general issue is, you can never switch in front of RP Groudon lest it get free setup, and that may be difficult for newer players to grasp.

In a different scenario, suppose Groudon has gotten a free switch into Dusk Mane, and lets say you need Dusk Mane healthy for their Xerneas. In this case, if you switch as they Rock Polish you're doomed, but if you stay in on fire move you're also doomed to lose to GeoXern. In short, there's no reliable way of dealing with Groudon in what is a common scenario.
You're not as doomed as you think by switching, but this is completely subjective if there was a geoxern, you'd keep dusk mane in the back for it. I could sit down and break down every hypothetical scenario, every turn, how to play it and how not to play it, but we'd be here all day, yes there is probably some matchup you're gonna lose, but thats pokemon.

I do not see the team being much better against other mixed variants of Pdon. Doesn't it just get a kill everytime by clicking Overheat, if Fairyceus is statused/below 100%?
as I've said, PDon sets will always have some degree of threat level to any team on paper and how pdon is handled on this team is good enough. If you feel like you could submit a improved team, you are more than welcome to.

I'm not overturning the decisions made and I'm sorry you're dissatisfied with the decisions reached and with our logical reasonings, I am not going to discuss this further, I've said everything that needs to be said and I feel like you're just going to be
contrarian with me until you obtain a decision you're satisfied with, which my only response to this is take it further with someone above me, Like our Forums leader or a moderator.

E: I derped my sentence
 
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Solgaleo @ Normalium Z
Ability: Full Metal Body
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Splash
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt

Gengar-Mega @ Gengarite
Ability: Shadow Tag
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Protect

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head
- Precipice Blades
- Lava Plume

Yveltal @ Leftovers
Ability: Dark Aura
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 224 HP / 252 Def / 32 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Oblivion Wing
- Toxic
- Taunt

Arceus-Water @ Splash Plate
Ability: Multitype
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 240 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Defog
- Ice Beam
- Recover

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 108 HP / 252 SpA / 148 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Geomancy
- Substitute
- Moonblast
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Groudon is the lead of the team. Xerneas, Gengar, and Solgaleo are sweepers. Arceus and Yveltal are walls.
 
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bigtalk

a warm breeze whistles by
is a Pre-Contributor
If you want kinds of teams I'm looking to accept at the moment: Ferrothorn spikes balances,
IMO the Pdon-less build with Zygarde/Dusk that Rasengan777 and I submitted earlier is probably the most efficient Ferrothorn balance you can get, he has managed to peak ladder with a very high GXE with that team. If you try to make a Ferrothorn balance with Pdon, you will basically end up with the same 5 mons (Ferro/Zy/Dusk/Xerneas/Yveltal) but with Pdon over Marshadow, which is just suboptimal, as Marshadow is a better fit than Pdon on that team for its role as a revenge killer.

Instead, I've tried my hand at making a couple of bulky offenses with Ferrothorn. I couldn't decide between them as each has some flaws, so I have multiple builds to submit: https://pokepast.es/21522590769d0d81, https://pokepast.es/1863c91dfc604145, and https://pokepast.es/d1caf6772276fd59 You can evaluate whichever one you think looks best.
  • The first two teams include Facade Mega Salamence + Waterceus to give them a solid backbone against Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh for Ferrothorn.
  • The first team features Swords Dance Primal Groudon and Dragon Dance Mega Salamence as our main breakers/sweepers that take advantage of Spikes support. The choice of Swords Dance Primal Groudon over mixed is important to compensate for the weaker GeoXern matchup, as Attack investment is necessary for Precipice Blades + Shadow Sneak to pick up the KO on Xerneas after rocks. Scarf Xerneas helps revenge kill threats like Ultra Necrozma/Marshadow and provides cleric/Defog support, Marshadow adds a priority user/another revenge killer and anti-offense Pokemon. Both of them also greatly benefit from Spikes which help to wear down Steel-types and supportceus, respectively.
  • The second team features support Dusk Mane, which is able to set Stealth Rock and check GeoXern much more effectively than Primal Groudon. This frees up Primal Groudon to run a mixed Rock Polish set, which synergizes well with Ferrothorn as a partner since it can set Spikes on Waterceus/Kyogre, two of the few mons that can check it. Mega Salamence performs more of a supportive role with Defog on this team. Yveltal gives us some counterplay to Ghost-types like Mega Gengar/Lunala and to Ultra Necrozma.
  • The third build is similar to the second, but kind of rolls Mega Salamence + Waterceus into one slot (Tina is the ultimate Pdon check) and adds Fairyceus to patch up our vulnerability to some threats, particularly Marshadow and Dark-types. This frees up Yveltal to run a more offensive set. Ultra Necrozma helps wallbreak for other teammates, lures stuff like Primal Groudon/Ho-Oh that threaten Ferrothorn, and is able to check Xerneas prior to transformation. Stone Edge is run on Primal Groudon, as compared to the second one this team has a somewhat weaker matchup against Ho-Oh.
  • The first team has a somewhat weak Xerneas matchup and relies on invested Precipice Blades + priority Shadow Sneak to deal with GeoXern, which is only a guaranteed KO on it after rocks. However, Xerneas can't set up on most of the team for free, and Primal Groudon has investment which allows it to live a hit from GeoXern after rocks.
  • The second lacks speed control and lacks a Fairy-type, so it's more vulnerable to threats such as SD + Outrage Ultra, Yveltal, CM Darkceus, etc. Marshadow is also difficult to deal with if rocks are up.
  • There isn't a great Ho-Oh switch-in on the third build. The team mostly relies on the surprise factor of Ultra / Stone Edge on Primal Groudon to deal with it, so it's difficult to break in the hands of an opponent that is smart enough to scout for these things.
 
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IMO the Pdon-less build with Zygarde/Dusk that Rasengan777 and I submitted earlier is probably the most efficient Ferrothorn balance you can get, he has managed to peak ladder with a very high GXE with that team, whenever I try to make another Ferrothorn balance it bascially ends up being a worse version of that. Instead, I've tried my hand at making a couple of BOs with Ferrothorn. Could not decide between them so I have multiple (similar) builds to submit: https://pokepast.es/21522590769d0d81, https://pokepast.es/1863c91dfc604145, and https://pokepast.es/bb4f64fe6eb7fba2 You can evaluate whichever one you think looks the best.
  • The first two teams include Facade Mega Salamence + Waterceus to give them a solid backbone against Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh for Ferrothorn.
  • The first team features Swords Dance Primal Groudon and Dragon Dance Mega Salamence as our main breakers/sweepers that take advantage of Spikes support. The choice of Swords Dance Primal Groudon over mixed is important to compensate for the weaker GeoXern matchup, as Attack investment is necessary for Precipice Blades + Shadow Sneak to pick up the KO on Xerneas after rocks. Scarf Xerneas helps revenge kill threats like Ultra Necrozma/Marshadow and provides cleric/Defog support, Marshadow adds a priority user/another revenge killer and anti-offense Pokemon. Both of them also greatly benefit from Spikes which help to wear down Steel-types and supportceus, respectively.
  • The second team features support Dusk Mane, which is able to set Stealth Rock and check GeoXern much more effectively than Primal Groudon. This frees up Primal Groudon to run a mixed Rock Polish set, which synergizes well with Ferrothorn as a partner since it can set Spikes on Waterceus/Kyogre, two of the few mons that can check it. Mega Salamence performs more of a supportive role with Defog on this team. Yveltal gives us some counterplay to Ghost-types like Mega Gengar/Lunala and to Ultra Necrozma.
  • The third build is similar to the second, but kind of rolls Mega Salamence + Waterceus into one slot (Tina is the ultimate Pdon check) and adds Fairyceus to patch up our vulnerability to some threats, particularly Marshadow and Dark-types. This frees up Yveltal to run a Choice Scarf set instead of a physically defensive one. Ultra Necrozma helps wallbreak for other teammates, lures stuff like Primal Groudon/Ho-Oh that threatens Ferrothorn, and can check Xerneas before it transforms. Stone Edge is run on Primal Groudon, since this team has a much weaker matchup against Ho-Oh compared to the second one.
  • The first team has a somewhat weak Xerneas matchup and relies on invested Precipice Blades + priority Shadow Sneak to deal with GeoXern, which is only a guaranteed KO on it after rocks. However, Xerneas can't set up on most of the team for free, and Primal Groudon has investment which allows it to live a hit from GeoXern after rocks.
  • The second lacks speed control and lacks a Fairy-type, so it's more vulnerable to threats such as SD + Outrage Ultra, Yveltal, CM Darkceus, etc. Marshadow is also difficult to deal with if rocks are up.
  • Ho-Oh is problematic for the third build, the team mostly relies on the surprise factor of Ultra / Stone Edge on Primal Groudon to deal with it, so it's difficult to break in the hands of an opponent that is smart enough to scout for these things.
Lol that ferro spikes balance team that I built is redonculous on lad, pretty user friendly as well, you guys actually accepted it and said it was pending but didn't get back to me after that after I contacted y'all. As for the rest of the sample teams, I really don't understand the P-Don mandatory thing. Yes, P-don is a good mon, but it's not nigh mandatory on sample teams. And the point about it being user-friendly, isn't that valid in my personal opinion. Like bigtalk said, balance teams in general is a pretty braindead style to play with if you're just starting out. It's just oh here's a dusk mane ig i'll just go to zyg and glare somethin. The amateur can learn from balance by playing around more with the team and start making their own predictions, it's not like P-Don is singlehandedly teaching them more about the tier then a mon such as let's say ferrothorn. As I've noticed on ladder, more and more people are running their own pdon-less teams, and they're all pretty great. I think we need to move away from the Pdon controlled meta of Ubers, as pdon really isn't as dominant as people hype it up to be.
 
Rejecting a team because it doesn't have pdon is ridiculous imo. If the team is better with pdon over whatever existing slots due to concrete meta reasons, then that's a valid reason for adjustment/rejection. Pdon isn't a privileged pokemon lol.

I think that spikes ferro balance archetype is fundamentally at a clash with pdon. Pdon and ferro share very similar defensive niches. So, if you build a balance with both of these mons, then you usually will experience a worse outcome as that there's a lot of unnesscary redundancy in roles that will impact the number of necessary slots to make the team to work.

Fundamentally, the issue seems like that there are sample teams with holes. This is fine and normal. However, the users are posting teams with similar holes and are getting rejected. Personally, I have no problem with this because I wouldn't want the newcomers to have a lot of teams with similar holes. So, I think that cynara's reasoning was off but the intention was good. For example, cite the need for a team that gets 6-0'd by overheat pdon, as that we don't have any samples with that specific hole?
 
The fact that we are considering ferro balances makes me even more so want to talk about ho-oh. I am new to the meta and I have only like 1670ish elo at the moment but a lot of that elo and this starting point came from mostly zens ho-oh team. I suck at building myself and this is why 100% of my builder is stolen stuff. However I want to address the fact that ho-oh just seems really nice atm. And if your going to add ferro teams its even more nice. Ho-oh is extremely rare on ladder so the fact that I say we should run it is because a lot of teams don't seem to have as much "prep" or "checks/counters" as other mons that are on every single team. And so I get how a team like the mmy bo got submitted even tho it sucks vs ho-oh and no rock tomb on marsh makes it even weaker to ho-oh. I believe in adding some kind of ho-oh team. Just something to at lest consider for how the meta is currently
 
Time for another update. I'll be continuing to accept sample teams until the 8th November, where one final review will be done for the end of the generation and reach a final finished list of sample teams to be showcased for Generation 7.

Solgaleo @ Normalium Z
Ability: Full Metal Body
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Splash
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt

Gengar-Mega @ Gengarite
Ability: Shadow Tag
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Protect

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head
- Precipice Blades
- Lava Plume

Yveltal @ Leftovers
Ability: Dark Aura
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 224 HP / 252 Def / 32 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Oblivion Wing
- Toxic
- Taunt

Arceus-Water @ Splash Plate
Ability: Multitype
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 240 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Defog
- Ice Beam
- Recover

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 108 HP / 252 SpA / 148 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Geomancy
- Substitute
- Moonblast
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Groudon is the lead of the team. Xerneas, Gengar, and Solgaleo are sweepers. Arceus and Yveltal are walls.
Rejected. Solgaleo is not viable in USM Ubers for a sample team including it to be accepted as a start. The sets and ev spread are also inefficient, lack any real purpose such as Iron Head Groudon. No thought has been put into the team description.

IMO the Pdon-less build with Zygarde/Dusk that Rasengan777 and I submitted earlier is probably the most efficient Ferrothorn balance you can get, he has managed to peak ladder with a very high GXE with that team. If you try to make a Ferrothorn balance with Pdon, you will basically end up with the same 5 mons (Ferro/Zy/Dusk/Xerneas/Yveltal) but with Pdon over Marshadow, which is just suboptimal, as Marshadow is a better fit than Pdon on that team for its role as a revenge killer.
Lol that ferro spikes balance team that I built is redonculous on lad, pretty user friendly as well, you guys actually accepted it and said it was pending but didn't get back to me after that after I contacted y'all. As for the rest of the sample teams, I really don't understand the P-Don mandatory thing. Yes, P-don is a good mon, but it's not nigh mandatory on sample teams. And the point about it being user-friendly, isn't that valid in my personal opinion. Like bigtalk said, balance teams in general is a pretty braindead style to play with if you're just starting out. It's just oh here's a dusk mane ig i'll just go to zyg and glare somethin. The amateur can learn from balance by playing around more with the team and start making their own predictions, it's not like P-Don is singlehandedly teaching them more about the tier then a mon such as let's say ferrothorn. As I've noticed on ladder, more and more people are running their own pdon-less teams, and they're all pretty great. I think we need to move away from the Pdon controlled meta of Ubers, as pdon really isn't as dominant as people hype it up to be.
I don't agree that these are the most 'efficient' or effective ferrothorn builds you can get and nor do the rest of the sample team council (The VR council). I don't think you realise how many benefits primal groudon brings to a team in USM ubers, this is extremely important for players getting into USM Ubers as it is the easiest mon for them to get the most out of. it simplifies teambuilding and how much you have to 'tech' your sets and compress to adjust to the meta more, instead you could consider Primal Groudon in your team and yield more benefits. The exception to this is Stall teams as the teambuilding structures and approaches are completely different and imo the only archetype that actively benefits from being Pdonless.

Furthermore.
Instead, I've tried my hand at making a couple of bulky offenses with Ferrothorn. I couldn't decide between them as each has some flaws, so I have multiple builds to submit: https://pokepast.es/21522590769d0d81, https://pokepast.es/1863c91dfc604145, and https://pokepast.es/d1caf6772276fd59 You can evaluate whichever one you think looks best.
We are accepting the first team:https://pokepast.es/21522590769d0d81 - I feel this is the best out of the 3. Salamence wants to be Jolly nature here for Arceus formes mostly, Spikes make up for the damage difference and make it less feasible for support Arceus to switch in, as they risk being 2hko'd from Unboosted Salamence. Yveltal variants such as Stallbreaker becomes annoying to deal with the longer the game goes on, due to scarf xern being the answer, but how its checked is more than acceptable. The Geo Xern matchup will be explained in the full desc, It's adequate however.

Team 2 Struggles against stall too much and would probably benefit from Ultra Necrozma, and is simply too Yveltal weak (think Offensive Yveltals such as Life orb) especially when paired with Mega Gengar. Team 3 is okay, but team 1 is much more structurally sound and offers much better team synergy, along with strong ho-oh checks (which imo Ferrothorn teams need)

Internal addition to Sample teams

Mega Mewtwo Y + Ho-Oh Balance | Submitted by PurpleGatorade
1569859081810.png
1569859090225.png
1569859145670.png
1569859170134.png
1569859185143.png
1569859237208.png


Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Mewtwonite Y
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 40 Def / 216 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psystrike
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast

Ho-Oh @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Toxic
- Defog

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Overheat
- Roar

Arceus-Dark @ Dread Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Defog

Zygarde-Complete @ Leftovers
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Haze
- Thousand Arrows
- Toxic
- Rest

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Toxic
- Gyro Ball

This is a balance team by PurpleGatorade that revolves around setting up Spikes + stealth Rock and cleaning with Mega Mewtwo-Y in the lategame. Mega Mewtwo-Y's damage output against other balance and Bulky Offense teams is compounded by hazards, Which Ferrothorn and Primal Groudon provide. Both also check Primal Kyogre and Xerneas adequately, with Support Primal Groudon running Roar in this case to fend off Geomancy Xerneas.

Scarf Ho-Oh is an excellent revenge killer and balance breaker, and it also provides a much needed check to mixed Rock Polish Primal Groudon. Arceus dark is the principal defogger of the team and also functions as a check to Lunala, Yveltal, Mega Salamence, and Zygarde-C. Finally, defensive Zygarde-c is the team's main method of defeating primal groudon and other physical attackers. With the combination of Haze + Toxic, it's easy enough to whittle any offensive threat down to the range of Mega Mewtwo-Y or Ho-Oh.


Threatlist:

1569862654587.png

Marshadow, such as Life Orb variants are problematic for this team and require some careful play. Ohkoing Arceus Dark with Close Combat and revenge killing Mega Mewtwo-Y with Shadow Sneak. However, Zygarde-C beats all non-Hidden Power Ice sets. Ho-oh is able to easily revenge kill it or even switch in if there is no Stealth Rock up on your side of the field.
1569862889735.png

Mixed Swords Dance Primal Groudon can be threatening, but Zygarde can Haze + Toxic to wear it down.
1569863115978.png

Stallbreaker Yveltal can annoy several team members, but as long as Stealth Rock is off the field, Ho-oh can switch in, toxic it, and stall it out by constantly switching or KO it with Sacred Fire or Brave Bird., Arceus-Dark can also deal with it to an extent, force it to roost with Ice Beam and its potency can be limited by setting Stealth Rock.
 
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bigtalk

a warm breeze whistles by
is a Pre-Contributor
Time for another update. I'll be continuing to accept sample teams until the 8th November, where one final review will be done for the end of the generation and reach a final finished list of sample teams to be showcased for Generation 7.



Rejected. Solgaleo is not viable in USM Ubers for a sample team including it to be accepted as a start. The sets and ev spread are also inefficient, lack any real purpose such as Iron Head Groudon. No thought has been put into the team description.




I don't agree that these are the most 'efficient' or effective ferrothorn builds you can get and nor do the rest of the sample team council (The VR council). I don't think you realise how many benefits primal groudon brings to a team in USM ubers, this is extremely important for players getting into USM Ubers as it is the easiest mon for them to get the most out of. it simplifies teambuilding and how much you have to 'tech' your sets and compress to adjust to the meta more, instead you could consider Primal Groudon in your team and yield more benefits. The exception to this is Stall teams as the teambuilding structures and approaches are completely different and imo the only archetype that actively benefits from being Pdonless.

Furthermore.


We are accepting the first team:https://pokepast.es/21522590769d0d81 - I feel this is the best out of the 3. Salamence wants to be Jolly nature here for Arceus formes mostly, Spikes make up for the damage difference and make it less feasible for support Arceus to switch in, as they risk being 2hko'd from Unboosted Salamence. Yveltal variants such as Stallbreaker becomes annoying to deal with the longer the game goes on, due to scarf xern being the answer, but how its checked is more than acceptable. The Geo Xern matchup will be explained in the full desc, It's adequate however.

Team 2 Struggles against stall too much and would probably benefit from Ultra Necrozma, and is simply too Yveltal weak (think Offensive Yveltals such as Life orb) especially when paired with Mega Gengar. Team 3 is okay, but team 1 is much more structurally sound and offers much better team synergy, along with strong ho-oh checks (which imo Ferrothorn teams need)

Internal addition to Sample teams

Mega Mewtwo Y + Ho-Oh Balance | Submitted by PurpleGatorade
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Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Mewtwonite Y
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 40 Def / 216 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psystrike
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast

Ho-Oh @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Toxic
- Defog

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Overheat
- Roar

Arceus-Dark @ Dread Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Defog

Zygarde-Complete @ Leftovers
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Haze
- Thousand Arrows
- Toxic
- Rest

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Toxic
- Gyro Ball

This is a balance team by PurpleGatorade that revolves around setting up Spikes + stealth Rock and cleaning with Mega Mewtwo-Y in the lategame. Mega Mewtwo-Y's damage output against other balance and Bulky Offense teams is compounded by hazards, Which Ferrothorn and Primal Groudon provide. Both also check Primal Kyogre and Xerneas adequately, with Support Primal Groudon running Roar in this case to fend off Geomancy Xerneas.

Scarf Ho-Oh is an excellent revenge killer and balance breaker, and it also provides a much needed check to mixed Rock Polish Primal Groudon. Arceus dark is the principal defogger of the team and also functions as a check to Lunala, Yveltal, Mega Salamence, and Zygarde-C. Finally, defensive Zygarde-c is the team's main method of defeating primal groudon and other physical attackers. With the combination of Haze + Toxic, it's easy enough to whittle any offensive threat down to the range of Mega Mewtwo-Y or Ho-Oh.


Threatlist:

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Marshadow, such as Life Orb variants are problematic for this team and require some careful play. Ohkoing Arceus Dark with Close Combat and revenge killing Mega Mewtwo-Y with Shadow Sneak. However, Zygarde-C beats all non-Hidden Power Ice sets. Ho-oh is able to easily revenge kill it or even switch in if there is no Stealth Rock up on your side of the field.
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Mixed Swords Dance Primal Groudon can be threatening, but Zygarde can Haze + Toxic to wear it down.
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Stallbreaker Yveltal can annoy several team members, but as long as Stealth Rock is off the field, Ho-oh can switch in, toxic it, and stall it out by constantly switching or KO it with Sacred Fire or Brave Bird., Arceus-Dark can also deal with it to an extent, force it to roost with Ice Beam and its potency can be limited by setting Stealth Rock.
I am glad to hear that my first team was accepted! (Although, a bit surprised tbh as I thought the third would be.) Before you post, though, here are some additional things you may want to take into consideration:
  • Pursuit vs. HP Ice on Marshadow -- Pursuit is great to have seeing as the team lacks a Ghost resist and has 2 or more mons vulnerable to stag users, but, I would consider slashing HP Ice as it can be nice for luring Zyg/Mence for Pdon and generally for breaking fatter teams (otherwise, a core of Ferro+Zyg collectively walls everything for example).
  • Adamant vs Jolly on Salamence -- You're right that Jolly on Mega Salamence can help in regards to fishing for speed tie wins vs supportceus. However, there are some important benchmarks that Adamant achieves that Jolly does not. For example, with Adamant, Double-Edge into Shadow Sneak has a decent chance of killing GeoXern with mid rolls; this never happens with Jolly, meaning that it can set up on Salamence and sweep once Pdon is weakened. More calcs included below.
    • https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-980548260 Here's a replay to illustrate the tradeoff-- turn 10 Jolly would have helped, because I could have fished for speed tie win instead of being forced out into Ferrothorn, but turn 22 I would not have been able to kill without Adamant. There are merits to using both natures, so I think it can be slashed Adamant / Jolly.
  • 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 168 Def Xerneas: 246-291 (62.5 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • +1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 64 Def Arceus-Ground: 396-466 (89.1 - 104.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
  • +1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Arceus-Fairy: 417-492 (93.9 - 110.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

  • 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 168 Def Xerneas: 225-265 (57.2 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • +1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 64 Def Arceus-Ground: 360-424 (81 - 95.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
  • +1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Arceus-Fairy: 381-448 (85.8 - 100.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

  • 252 Atk Life Orb Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 168 Def Xerneas: 109-130 (27.7 - 33%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
 
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