Resource USM Ubers Viability Ranking Thread

[Legendary Latios]

Hello All. While I Am Primarily UnderUsed Player And Am Loyal To That Tier Until Death, I Have Also Played Ubers A Lot Recently And Looking Through Viability Rankings I Have Some Suggestions:

View attachment 190561 - Arceus Ground to A - While The Offensive SD Set Is Very Good, It Is In My Opinion Overrated. I Have Noticed Bulky Yveltal (Both Non Scarf And Scarf) Picking Up A Lot In Usage Which Is Not Ideal For This Mon, In Addition To The Usual Beasts Such As Marshadow Roaming The Tier Hungry To Steal Boosts. It Is Simply Not As Good As It Once Was. Support Ground In My Opinion Is Even More Overrated As Heck And Most Smart Players Will Know How To Take Advantage Of This Mon Or Will Always Have A Pokemon To Take Advantage Of The Exploitable Coverage. Being Total Bait For Xerneas, P-Ogre, Arceus Water And Ho-Oh ETC Is Not Ideal.

View attachment 190564 - Lunala To B+ - In My Opinion The Only Way To Make This Girl Work Is For Specs To Be Used. A Horrid Defensive Typing For The Coverage Seen In Ubers Nullifies The Ability It Has, Not To Mention Just How Hard It Can Be To Keep Shadow Shield Active Against Us Good Players On High ELO Ladder Play. Without Shadow Shield Active This Mon Is Mostly B-Tier. Defensive Set I Have Seen Around Is Also Total Garbage Straight From Trash Can, Please Stop Using That.

View attachment 190562 - M-Lucario To B - How Is This Mon In The Same Tier As Garbage Such As Lugia And Tyranitar? It Is Basically Better Than Everything Currently In B-.

View attachment 190563 - Dialga To B- - Again, Another Pokemon Completely Misplaced In Sub Rank With Total Sewage Straight From Sewer. This Is Really Ranked In Same Tier With Arceus Grass? With Dugtrio (Which Is Basically Never Seen)? It Has A Niche As A Good P-Don Lure With Lead Groundium Z Or Shuca Set And Has Niche As Being One Dragon Not Totally Free For Broken Mons Such As Xerneas To Switch Into, And Has A Decent Defensive Typing. By No Means Amazing, But Better Than The Filth With It.

Thank You For Listening!

I'm only just trying to get into Ubers lately, so I can't really refute any arguments, but please, only capitalize the first letter at the beginning of sentences and proper nouns. Writing out the entire thing with each words capitalized makes it way harder to read.

 

[Icemann]

Hi, I'm not very old in ubers, but I would like to propose these changes plus a UR.
View attachment 192149C- to UR
This pokemon does not deserve to be viable, because its only "niche" is to be a dual screener with the field, but from there it is surpassed by almost all the fairies and most of the electricians, basically there is almost no reason to use Koko in ubers , so I recommend that you stay unranked.

View attachment 192170C+ to B
Yes, I know what they will be thinking "to use Chansey, if Blissey can have shed shell to escape gengar?", The reason is that it has a larger bulk than Blissey, apart from hitting with less power, count better to several pokemon, for example to primals or Xerneas.
calcs:
252+ SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey in Rain: 210-247 (29.8 - 35.1%) - 18.7% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Rain: 262-310 (36.6 - 43.4%) - guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 393-463 (55 - 64.8%) - guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 288-339 (40.9 - 48.2%) - guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey: 270-318 (38.3 - 45.1%) - guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 338-398 (47.3 - 55.7%) - 78.5% chance to 2HKO
With this they realize that Chansey receives the blows better than Blissey, so for B.

View attachment 192174 C+ to B
Little more of the same as Chansey, I was surprised to see this pokemon in such a low rank, this pokemon is more than a niche, it works very well with Deoxys-A, basically it is as underrated as Chansey, it is a very good stallbreaker with terrain, unlike Koko it is possible to differentiate from others of its same type, so for B rank.

View attachment 192202C to D
Basically it is surpassed by Lunala, the only reason to use it on Lunala is its power, but Lunala puts a Calm Mind and voila, there are basically no reasons to use it on Lunala.
Now, the good:
View attachment 192182UR to C+ / B-
]The niche of this pokemon is doubtful, since it is surpassed by Arceus-Fairy, but nevertheless it has a niche and is to stop the special offensive dragons like Palkia or some Rayquaza, in addition to being semi offensive it can stop threats that Chansey and Blissey no, it's also like a combination of Chansey and Blissey with Arceus-Fairy, he has a wish like Chansey and Blissey, but with the type and offense of Arceus-Fairy, so I say it must be viable.
In what situations does Sylveon beat the uber fairies?
It has pixilate, which gives it a bit of extra power, it also has a slight but remarkably better confrontation against Mega Sableye, neither does it spend the Arceus space, being able to carry another arceus, and over Chansey and Blissey it has its obvious greater power and more Xerneas It has Wish and a special defense a little greater, this means that it has a better confrontation against Gengar, because Xerneas occupies power herb or another object, Arceus-Fairy cannot carry, Blissey can but is less powerful, so in conclusion Sylveon is unique the metagame, because there are no pokemon that do exactly the same as him, being an offensive Wisher, and of these there is none.
https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-gen7ubers-966071698

View attachment 192201UR to C+
This pokemon has an inconsistent niche, since it is a pokemon with a low bulk, but with Unaware, which thanks to this has its niche in ubers, in addition to its low stats, it has a niche for the following.
In what situations does Clefable beat the uber fairies?
Well, against boosters such as: GeoXerneas, CM Kyogre, Arceus SD + Extreme Speed, etc ...
Well anyway, there are not many things to say about Clefable, basically it is a Cleric with Unaware and ready, nothing more to add.
https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-gen7ubers-966077770

hope you like.

Sylveon has no niche in Ubers over Arc Fairy or Xerneas. While I can agree that their really isn't an offensive wish user in Ubers(except for maybe wish mence), that does not mean Sylveon has any reason to be used. Using your logic, Zweilous should be ranked cause of how powerful his Outrages are. Or Regice because it has base 200 SpDef. You mention that sylveon has pixilate which boosts its power, Xern has geo which not only boosts its Special attack, but it also boosts in Spdef and speed making Xerneas an incredible sweeper which is also hard to kill on the special side. Speaking of speed, sylveon is slow as ass, its outsped by nearly every relevant pokemon. To be a viable fairy in ubers you need to have more than just wish and pixilate hyper voice, especially when you get destroyed by one of the best mons in the tier in dusk (and basically every non fairy weak mon). UU can keep this one. Also side note, I like that you tried to show replays for your UR nominations. But what you are linking are the actual battles themselves, make sure you save the replay after the match is over and link that so we can see it.

 

[War Incarnate]

Now, the good:
View attachment 192182UR to C-
]The niche of this pokemon is doubtful, since it is surpassed by Arceus-Fairy, but nevertheless it has a niche and is to stop the special offensive dragons like Palkia or some Rayquaza, in addition to being semi offensive it can stop threats that Chansey and Blissey no, it's also like a combination of Chansey and Blissey with Arceus-Fairy, he has a wish like Chansey and Blissey, but with the type and offense of Arceus-Fairy, so I say it must be viable.
In what situations does Sylveon beat the uber fairies?
It has pixilate, which gives it a bit of extra power, it also has a slight but remarkably better confrontation against Mega Sableye, neither does it spend the Arceus space, being able to carry another arceus, and over Chansey and Blissey it has its obvious greater power and more Xerneas It has Wish and a special defense a little greater, this means that it has a better confrontation against Gengar, because Xerneas occupies power herb or another object, Arceus-Fairy cannot carry, Blissey can but is less powerful, so in conclusion Sylveon is unique the metagame, because there are no pokemon that do exactly the same as him, being an offensive Wisher, and of these there is none.
https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-gen7ubers-966071698

View attachment 192201UR to C-
This pokemon has an inconsistent niche, since it is a pokemon with a low bulk, but with Unaware, which thanks to this has its niche in ubers, in addition to its low stats, it has a niche for the following.
In what situations does Clefable beat the uber fairies?
Well, against boosters such as: GeoXerneas, CM Kyogre, Arceus SD + Extreme Speed, etc ...
Well anyway, there are not many things to say about Clefable, basically it is a Cleric with Unaware and ready, nothing more to add.
https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-gen7ubers-966077770

hope you like.

Why would I use Sylveon over other Fairy-types like Xerneas, Arceus-Fairy, and maybe Magearna? The answer is: I wouldn't. This is possibly one of the worst noobtraps I have seen here, only inexperienced players would use unviable gimmicks like this that nobody uses or even considers. Sylveon is slow as hell; nearly every relevant Uber pokemon outspeeds it, and to be honest, it's not that bulky either. Its role is unique, yes, but those three fairies that I listed above are simply more useful. Xerneas can actually do something other than pass one Wish and then get fucked by Primal Groudon straight after. In fact, Xerneas can actually fulfill much more roles than Sylveon, while this noobtrap does not do anything relevant at all; Arceus-Fairy isn't slow as hell and can actually support its team with Stealth Rock, Will-O-Wisp, and Toxic, and even better, it has actual coverage, while Sylveon's barren movepool leaves it walled by 99% of all Uber pokemon, and Magearna, while being one-dimensional, can purge boosts from most setup sweepers, and... well, simply does more than Sylveon will ever do. Oh, and, all of them don't immediately die to Dusk Mane Necrozma.

Clefable... augh, that pokemon is so bad in Ubers I'm not gonna talk about it. Use Magearna. That is all you need to know.

 

[SiTuM]

What happens is that Sylveon is very different, there is no one who does exactly the same, although I exaggerate in the range, take it as a C-, and as for the games, I will put different.

its not because no one does the same that it means its good and viable. sylveon is absolutely garbage, and has absolutely no niche in this tier just because of it weak stats, the fact it loses against any toptier (pdon, dusk mane and mgar) and that other mons already has its features: magearna and xern for heal bell, blissey and mkanga for wish and xern or fairyceus for a strong fairy attack.

 

[Icemann]

What happens is that Sylveon is very different, there is no one who does exactly the same, although I exaggerate in the range, take it as a C-, and as for the games, I will put different.

Yes nothing does the same as it does, but that does not mean it has a niche or is good in any way (kinda like golduck and regular altaria, does any pokemon do what they do? No, but guess what they are super bad). Their is 0 reason to run sylveon in ubers. You already got the mon blacklisted in OU and idk what your trying to pull in here

 

[Oldamar999]

but it deserves to be viable, because in addition to different, it has a better confrontation against gengar than Xerneas Geomancy or Arceus fairy, that is the reason why Sylveon deserves to be viable, I will talk with mod about this, OU does not have to do, not every pokemon with a niche in ubers has its niche in OU, so as I say Sylveon for C-.

so your argument for ranking sylveon is that it is different from the other fairy types, therefore it deserves to be ranked? ok then.

 

[Oldamar999]

Ok, look what happens is that Sylveon has a tiny niche for his unique ability and not occupying plate, although not as good as Arceus Fairy or Xerneas, has a small niche and sylveon has to go.
As for Fable, I think they are right, it should not be viable.

I really don't understand your argument. I do not see how sylveon being different from other fairy-types is enough to give it not only a niche, but a niche that is even slightly worth using over stuff like Arceus-fairy, Xerneas, and Magearna, pixilate honestly isn't enough to make it remotely worth using.

It is the main one, but not the only one, what happens is that it can be distinguished by being able to wear shed shell unlike Geoxerneas and Arceus fairy, and Blissey is a different wishpasser to him, so he deserves to be ranked.
PD: In the end so much to say only one thing, IT IS DIFFERENT.

lol.

 

[Icemann]

It is the main one, but not the only one, what happens is that it can be distinguished by being able to wear shed shell unlike Geoxerneas and Arceus fairy, and Blissey is a different wishpasser to him, so he deserves to be ranked.
PD: In the end so much to say only one thing, IT IS DIFFERENT.

Mega Audino has wish, heal bell, knock off and it looks a little different than the others so i think its perfect C- material. Jokes aside, being different means nothing, especially when you have no proof of sylveon in action with replays. No one is going to take you seriously when you nominate an UR pokemon with 0 replays/ proof, thats just how it is.

 

[Oldamar999]

Mega Audino has wish, heal bell, knock off and it looks a little different than the others so i think its perfect C- material. Jokes aside, being different means nothing, especially when you have no proof of sylveon in action with replays. No one is going to take you seriously when you nominate an UR pokemon with 0 replays/ proof, thats just how it is.

You can use the same logic in other metas, not just ubers too. It would be similar to saying "heatmor is different from incineroar, so it should be C" in NU. Being different really means nothing like you said.

 

[KingofEmpoleons]

This argument has been going on too long. Sylveon is an unviable Pokemon in Ubers, outclassed in any role is performs by Xerneas, Arceus-Fairy, Magearna, or Blisssy and simply has no place in any viable Ubers team.

Let’s start with Arceus-Fairy:

You claim that sylveon is a viable replacement for Arceus-Fairy for a couple of reasons. I’ll debunk them here:

1. Extra power: This is simply false. For example:
0 SpA Pixie Plate Arceus-Fairy Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 151-178 (44.2 - 52.1%) vs. 0 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 127-150 (37.2 - 43.9%)

2. Wish: Wish is a subpar move compared to Recover because you need to use protect in order to heal up. By being forced to use protect, you give a free turn for your opponent to switch in mons like Necrozma-Dusk Mane, Groudon-Primal, and Kyogre-Primal, all mons that take pitiful damage from sylveon as they fire off strong attacks or set up freely.

3. Extra Special Bulk: Again, calcs prove that Arceus-Fairy simply has higher special bulk. 0 SpA Mew Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 78-93 (23.5 - 28%) vs.
0 SpA Mew Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 84-99 (22 - 25.9%)

Now moving on to reasons why you should use sylveon:

1. It doesn’t really check much. Sylveon is pretty much an inferior Arceus-Fairy in all aspects. It has a mediocre defense, preventing it from checking mons like Yveltal and Marshadow that Arceus-Fairy checks. Sure, you can have an Arceus on the team, but what’s the point of having another Arceus if Sylveon doesn’t check anything it needs to check.

2. Outclassed in every role. You want a defensive or bulky attacking fairy, take Arceus-Fairy. You want an offense powerhouse, take Xerneas. You want a bulky mom that can check top mons like Xerneas and Yveltal, take Magearna. You want a special wall, take Blissey or Chansey. Sylveon attempts to be a jack of all trades, but all it really accomplishes is simply nothing.

I don’t mean to discourage you from posting. There are certainly some unranked mons with niches that haven’t been ranked, but Sylveon simply isn’t one of those.

 

[Rasengan777]

Hi, I'm not very old in ubers, but I would like to propose these changes plus a UR.
View attachment 192149C- to UR
This pokemon does not deserve to be viable, because its only "niche" is to be a dual screener with the field, but from there it is surpassed by almost all the fairies and most of the electricians, basically there is almost no reason to use Koko in ubers , so I recommend that you stay unranked.

View attachment 192170C+ to B
Yes, I know what they will be thinking "to use Chansey, if Blissey can have shed shell to escape gengar?", The reason is that it has a larger bulk than Blissey, apart from hitting with less power, count better to several pokemon, for example to primals or Xerneas.
calcs:
252+ SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey in Rain: 210-247 (29.8 - 35.1%) - 18.7% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Rain: 262-310 (36.6 - 43.4%) - guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 393-463 (55 - 64.8%) - guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 288-339 (40.9 - 48.2%) - guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey: 270-318 (38.3 - 45.1%) - guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 338-398 (47.3 - 55.7%) - 78.5% chance to 2HKO
With this they realize that Chansey receives the blows better than Blissey, so for B.

View attachment 192174 C+ to B
Little more of the same as Chansey, I was surprised to see this pokemon in such a low rank, this pokemon is more than a niche, it works very well with Deoxys-A, basically it is as underrated as Chansey, it is a very good stallbreaker with terrain, unlike Koko it is possible to differentiate from others of its same type, so for B rank.

View attachment 192202C to D
Basically it is surpassed by Lunala, the only reason to use it on Lunala is its power, but Lunala puts a Calm Mind and voila, there are basically no reasons to use it on Lunala.
Now, the good:
View attachment 192182UR to C-
]The niche of this pokemon is doubtful, since it is surpassed by Arceus-Fairy, but nevertheless it has a niche and is to stop the special offensive dragons like Palkia or some Rayquaza, in addition to being semi offensive it can stop threats that Chansey and Blissey no, it's also like a combination of Chansey and Blissey with Arceus-Fairy, he has a wish like Chansey and Blissey, but with the type and offense of Arceus-Fairy, so I say it must be viable.
In what situations does Sylveon beat the uber fairies?
It has pixilate, which gives it a bit of extra power, it also has a slight but remarkably better confrontation against Mega Sableye, neither does it spend the Arceus space, being able to carry another arceus, and over Chansey and Blissey it has its obvious greater power and more Xerneas It has Wish and a special defense a little greater, this means that it has a better confrontation against Gengar, because Xerneas occupies power herb or another object, Arceus-Fairy cannot carry, Blissey can but is less powerful, so in conclusion Sylveon is unique the metagame, because there are no pokemon that do exactly the same as him, being an offensive Wisher, and of these there is none.
https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-gen7ubers-966071698

View attachment 192366UR to C-
This pokemon has an inconsistent niche, since it is a pokemon with a low bulk, but with Unaware, which thanks to this has its niche in ubers, in addition to its low stats, it has a niche for the following.
In what situations does Clefable beat the uber fairies?
Well, against boosters such as: GeoXerneas, CM Kyogre, Arceus SD + Extreme Speed, etc ...
Well anyway, there are not many things to say about Clefable, basically it is a Cleric with Unaware and ready, nothing more to add.
https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-gen7ubers-966077770
hope you like.

Stop, if you are trolling, it's not funny. If you are new, you should not post something with 0 reasoning, 0 replays, and with no background in the tier. As many people have told you, you're nominations are not reflective of this tier, so accept that.

 

[Nayrz]

Sylveon is very unlikely to be getting ranked in the next update and the arguments to suggest its viable are weak in a context of the viability rankings to begin with. Everything not already Ubers by tiering must possess some sort of unique and viable niche or standout quality if its to even reach the C ranks, and this mon has nothing (good) going for it in USM to warrant a place. Even the smallest niche it has doesn't change the fact it invites many of the best mons in the tier for free. I'd advise you stop flooding the thread on this matter - I've already cleaned up several posts and if you can't engage with other users without taking up an entire thread page then we're going to have a problem.

As a general message - we are currently working on a VR update and it should be out in a week or so.

 

[absdaddy]

yveltal to S at this point is a given; colossal usage, can tailor it to do basically anything you want it to do. if mega gengar is S then yveltal definitely should be too. worth noting that average yveltal beats all of the mons in S and up.

flyceus should drop, nobody uses this. even if, darkceus is a better flyceus anyway

Rayquaza to a-, dd z is still a very powerful set, slap a meteor on it to not be walled by zyg and you get one of the hardest hitting mixed mons in the tier

MMY to A- at least, definitely a meta mon now with a myriad of viable sets, cm is very antimeta despite yveltal being a thing

 

[Alito the Gladiator]

Will the next/upcoming VR update be the final one for this gen? Agreed, Yveltal should be S at a minimum, it's versatility is only challenged by Primal Groudon.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

I have no clue why Yveltal isn't S but Gengar is, because Yveltal is far more versatile. It can taunt status and rock spreaders, has priority move in Sucker Punch (very useful in picking out weakened opponents), can defog Stealth Rock, Spikes and Sticky Web; much higher bulk allows it Toxic stall with Roost, can gain momentum with U-turn, has both physical and special movesets... Almost every single team can fit Yveltal regardless of playstyle (stall, balance, hyper offence). And it's pretty damn good in every one of them. Personally my favorite pokemon in the Uber metagame due to all the roles it can play. Yveltal easily warrants S tier above Gengar imo, arguably even above Necrozma DM as well.

 

[Mr. Quark]

I'm also going to go ahead and nominate Yveltal for S, above Mega Gengar. I think the fact that it has so many viable roles and that it excels so greatly at all of them, compounded with its astronomical usage across archetypes warrants its place. I also think that Mega Gengar is on a slight decline, perhaps in part because of the rise of bulky scarf Yveltal.

Another nomination to consider, therefore, is dropping Mega Gengar to the top of A+. I think it is less viable than Ultra Necrozma right now, with Ultra still being the premier wallbreaker in the tier, and still having the huge advantage of being a Dusk Mane before becoming an Ultra Necrozma.

 

[fififlutters]

I'm going to go ahead and say I agree for Yveltal rising for the reasons stated but I would prefer it be the bottom mon in S; if any changes were to be made to the VR I would probably move Ultra above Gengar and potentially Necrozma-DM because it's clearly the tier's best offensive threat and alone it has so little defensive counterplay that even some stall teams have had to put down MGar or scarf Yvel simply to avoid it from outright crushing those sorts of teams.

However, I disagree with a Gengar drop - whilst it might not be as splashable as the other threats in S, it's the one that can do the most work on teams by outright removing a good portion of defensive cores. Not only is 3a one of the best counterplay options against Ultra and its rising but it also takes down a good majority of new adaptations like rising Arceus-Fairy usage and Thunder variants can heavily damage Scarf Yveltal locked into Oblivion Wing or Foul Play. SubDisable is also capable of trapping some bulky CM arcs like Arceus-Dark. I don't really think Gengar has been hit by metagame changes and if anything new sets increase its viability.

 

[Zrp200]

Honestly, Yveltal deserves a spot above Mega Gengar. Yveltal is more splashable, more versatile in what roles it plays, and does not require nearly as much skill to work. It's also extremely unfortunate that Gengar cannot trap and remove Blissey.
I'm opposed to a Gengar drop, but if it did, it deserves no lower than the top spot in A+.

 

[Alito the Gladiator]

Honestly, Yveltal deserves a spot above Mega Gengar. Yveltal is more splashable, more versatile in what roles it plays, and does not require nearly as much skill to work. It's also extremely unfortunate that Gengar cannot trap and remove Blissey.
I'm opposed to a Gengar drop, but if it did, it deserves no lower than the top spot in A+.

I think Mega Gengar is versatile enough to still be a notch above the currently ranked A+ mons though. The ability to trap and remove threats is all but invaluable.

 

[Zrp200]

I think Mega Gengar is versatile enough to still be a notch above the currently ranked A+ mons though. The ability to trap and remove threats is all but invaluable.

Of course. That's why I said "No lower than the top spot of A+". It's better than the rest of A+. The question is just whether or not that means it goes in S or the top spot of A+.

 

[Mr. Quark]

The only reason I suggested considering demoting Mega Gengar to the top of A+ is because the viability team doesn't like internal nominations, as I understand it. I just wanted to emphasize the fact that I don't believe Mega Gengar is as viable as Ultra Necrozma anymore. If the viability team is okay with internally demoting it to the bottom of S, that would be the best option in my view.

 

[Cynara]

Mega Gengar is S because its probably the best pokemon at the highest skill ceiling after Primal Groudon. It's a very hard Pokemon to get the best out of it, but when you are, you would understand why it is S rank. Mega Gengar can be equipped to mitigate, remove or overcome any thread on the ubers VR if one so wishes, because it has access to the tools to do so. In terms of Threat level I'd argue Mega Gengar is S rank easily in the tier, but obviously the biggest drawback of the pokemon is the amount of skill required to utilise its potential so I can understand why it gets overlooked and people get confused why it is indeed S.

Furthermore, I don't agree Ultra Necrozma should be a S ranking defining threat anymore. The meta is too well equipped with dealing with it nowadays, its just stopped by common team members such as Scarf Yveltal, Mega Gengar and the influx of MMY usage, pokemon which are able to make quick work of it, the fatter teams it used to be really stellar against, don't exist anymore, people have adapted and realised it is a pokemon that exists. Offensive Stealth Rock is probably the best way to get usage out of it right now and frees pdon to do things over than rocks. Kyogre is more benefited in the meta despite being slower as a breaker, imo Kyogre isn't as hindered by the common revenge killers, doesnt really have to rely on setup turns to break down common cores or rely on Z moves as a matter of that fact so theres less drawbacks of using Kyogre as ur main breaker. Offensive Rocks is where Ultra Necrozma really shines along with its speed since its able to decimate the common defoggers and is a great response to this Defog Groundceus trend which usually beats the majority of SR users.

I do acknowledge SD Edgequake Ultra Necrozma is still capable of autowinning against some shaky balances still however, Outrage is a scam.

 

[Nayrz]

Update time! But first, some notes:

- SiTuM has joined the VR council! welcome aboard.
- Pearl has skipped this update due to Snake Draft making him a busy man. hope to see him in the final update.
- This will (very likely) be the second to last update! The final one will come near the end of USM (early November). Majors (our new and final type A - sign up!) may provide new insights.
- As I mentioned in the previous update, we're going forward and only doing internal rank ordering for the top ranks (S and A). The rest is now alphabetical. No more nichemon popularity contests, and less eye rolling from the council members when I go over lower rank positions.
- Sheet is here. As usual, you should probably zoom out. Also as usual way more was discussed than stuff that actually moved - go read it!

Update List

Yveltal: A+ >> S (bottom of S)
Ultra Necrozma: S >> A+ (top of A+) **
Xerneas: A+ >> A (top of A)
Arceus-Fairy: A- >> A (Bottom of A)
Mega Mewtwo Y: B+ >> A- (top of A-)
Arceus-Flying: B+ >> B
Deoxys-A: B+ >> B
Klefki: B >> B-
Greninja: Unranked >> C+

** This isn't discussed in the sheet, but it was discussed internally after the deadline passed for internal sheet nominations. When I evaluated the update after the sheet votes we noticed there were more S than A+ mons and that's a bit whack to leave till the final update to fix. A majority vote in the channel decided to push Ultra to A+ as it was already discussed but missed deadline + to resolve the earlier issue.

Some big movements this time around... let's hear your thoughts as we wind down USM.

 

[Royal1604]

I think it's the first time i'll post my opinion about a VR, so let's try to do it well: I clearly disagree with the Xern drop. I don't want to repeat what Byron said but when i see mons like ygod/Unec/Marsha at the top of the VR i clearly think about putting a xern in my team to at least rk them or pressure on a good double switch. I also think the geng/xern core is really good atm. As you said in the sheet Xern has 2 usual counters: Pdon and necro DM (let's precise it has to be defensive sets for both mons or at least some calculated HP invests otherwise xern can simply os them at +2 after rocks). Pdon defensive sets are often played with rocks so most of the time he will loose PVs to put them, loosing his status of xern check. Same thing with necro, who get trapped by geng in xern/geng core and loose tons of HPs except if it's sdef (which is the best counter to xern for me cause it fits in many teams instead of mag). All this to say i think Xern is still a huge threat in the tier and every single team should be prepare to face it as often as Marsh for example, who shouldn't be ranked higher than xern for me.

 

[Mr. Quark]

I think it's the first time i'll post my opinion about a VR, so let's try to do it well: I clearly disagree with the Xern drop. I don't want to repeat what Byron said but when i see mons like ygod/Unec/Marsha at the top of the VR i clearly think about putting a xern in my team to at least rk them or pressure on a good double switch. I also think the geng/xern core is really good atm. As you said in the sheet Xern has 2 usual counters: Pdon and necro DM (let's precise it has to be defensive sets for both mons or at least some calculated HP invests otherwise xern can simply os them at +2 after rocks). Pdon defensive sets are often played with rocks so most of the time he will loose PVs to put them, loosing his status of xern check. Same thing with necro, who get trapped by geng in xern/geng core and loose tons of HPs except if it's sdef (which is the best counter to xern for me cause it fits in many teams instead of mag). All this to say i think Xern is still a huge threat in the tier and every single team should be prepare to face it as often as Marsh for example, who shouldn't be ranked higher than xern for me.

Agreed. Xerneas is one of the very few threats that has to be addressed very directly when building, and I think the constant pressure it places on the Ubers player’s teambuilder alone warrants it staying in A+. Xerneas is still an unbelievably scary Pokemon in a tier that has so many fairy-weak threats.

With an extremely good typing both offensively and defensively and access to powerful stab that’s capable of 2hkoing almost the entire meta after rocks, scarf xerneas is, in my view, the most viable set. The revenge killing capabilities of scarf xerneas, along with secondary roles as a cleric and even a defog user, i think this set is just way too splashable on bulky offense and balance builds for xerneas to drop.

Geoxern is, in my view, one of the most important Pokemon to have some sort of very solid plan for in the builder, and the set that I think most warrants Xerneas staying where it is. This mon’s sweeping capabilities are blisteringly threatening, and it should really stay at the bottom of A+ for the obvious threat that this set presents.

I really don’t think its viability has been hurt by metagame changes, especially with the meteoric rise in Yveltal usage. Xern is still a respectably bulky and very powerful answer to a lot of the threatening Pokemon in this tier, and so I think it should remain in A+.