I can sort of undestand why so many people want Slowbro Unranked, but I have to strongly disagree with this discussion point. Losing Rotom-W helped a lot and is still a great check to many threats like Mega Aerodactyl, Infernape, Cobalion, Mamoswine and Terrakion. It also works pretty well on TR, getting calm minds up much easier and giving it a chance to sweep. Still a decent defensive mon and although the meta is very unkind to it, it certainly has it's merits. Keep it at C-.Ranking Update
Thanks for all of this week's thought-provoking discussion! Lots of good, well backed up nominations being made lately. Mega Houndoom will for now be added to a 'New Pokemon' rank, so feel free to discuss where you think it should come in at! Buzzwole and Breloom still won't be ranked, as both are still in BL for the time being. Anyways, here's what changed:
Rises
B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-
B- -> B
B- -> B
UR -> C
UR -> C-
UR -> C-
Drops
S -> A+
S -> A+
A -> A-
B -> B-
B- -> C+
C+ -> C
C -> C-
C+ -> UR
C -> UR
C- -> UR
C- -> UR
Gengar's preliminary B+ ranking quickly proved to be selling it short, as its placement in A- is totally justified considering its insane versatility between multiple great sets. While nothing has necessarily changed for it since its introduction, the combined viability of Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, Taunt, and its several other sets are simply too notable to keep it outside of the As.
Mega Pidgeot lost one of the main things holding it back in Rotom-W, which despite the still troubling Mega Manectric weakness, heavily improves its offense matchup. It’s also proving its worth as a stallbreaker thanks to the rise of stall and its strength against the play style with Work Up and Refresh. Overall a very solid pick that has responded well to recent trends.
I was honestly skeptical of putting this one through, though the increased usage of Mega Altaria on stall makes for a good reason to use Lucario over its main competition as a Nasty Plot user in Infernape. It still does face considerable competition, which is why rising further isn’t a likely possibility, though placement in B is fine for now due to its slightly stronger stall matchup than Infernape.
Salazzle has been picking up steam both in tournaments and on the ladder as a true anti-meta threat. It can find plentiful opportunities to set up Nasty Plot thanks to its good matchups against several large presences in the tier, while its Speed tier is also increasingly convenient. Overall a very real threat that is better represented up in B than with Pokemon like Florges and Snorlax.
With the addition of Strength Sap to its movepool Vileplume has been able to carve a very relevant niche for itself as a reliable check to multiple defining threats, some including Azumarill, Mega Altaria, and Mega Manectric. It’s still generally outdone by Amoonguss, but it now has a clear niche and definitely deserves placement in the rankings.
Cresselia is the best dedicated Trick Room setter available thanks to Lunar Dance and its bulk providing several setup opportunities. Due to the current popularity of Trick Room builds, this justifies a rank, though being pretty bad outside of this niche explains the low placement.
It supplies teams with a fantastic offensive check to Scizor in addition to providing Defog and Volt Switch support. The general usefulness of its typing and the good offensive presence it has with Firium Z allow the Heat to distinguish itself enough for at least a C- ranking.
Serperior may be among the tier’s most offensively threatening forces, though that doesn’t prevent it from not being as necessarily defining as what else is in S. Its lacking defensive utility and poor matchups against a lot of commonly used threats can make it awkward to comfortably fit onto a team, and neither of these fairly notable flaws really allow it to maintain the same influence as Gliscor or Scizor.
Latias is still one of the absolute best Pokemon in UU, though its influence simply isn’t up to snuff with that of Scizor’s or Gliscor’s. It’s certainly proven to be an adaptable Pokemon, though its utility sets suffer increased competition from Hydreigon since the release of Defog tutors, while overall it just doesn’t generally hold the meta together in the way that Gliscor and Scizor do.
Sharpedo can’t keep up with the metagame as well when Azumarill, Mega Manectric, Hydreigon, and Mega Altaria are all as dominant as they are. Its struggles against common Choice Scarfers like Infernape and Latias also cut into its viability, which overall makes it harder to work towards a late-game sweep than before.
Mega Absol is a bit of an underwhelming pick, especially considering its opportunity cost in comparison to the other Megas in B. While still very potent, it struggles to keep up with the increased usage of most Fairy-types, while also disliking the popularity of Choice Scarf users like Infernape and Hydreigon, which it really can’t combat outside of just switching out.
The nerfed utility of Sacred Fire fails to keep Entei very distinguishable when Infernape, Darmanitan, and Alolan Marowak all pose threats as Fire-type breakers with either better movepools, power, or overall utility. It’s just very underwhelming and could possibly drop further in the future.
Given that Drought is now banned, Ninetales and Venusaur are unable to carve niches for themselves that aren’t already possessed by better Pokemon of similar types. Venusaur may have potential as a moderately fast defensive Pokemon, though unless this is further explored going unranked is warranted.
Smeargle was the only one between these two to be brought up for a drop, but webs is a very hard playstyle to adequately use currently, largely due to Serperior’s presence and the current viability of TR and Aurora Veil. This makes both lowering in rank justifiable.
These Pokemon were both unranked due to their lack of valuable niches in the metagame. Aerodactyl struggles to maintain its niche as a suicide lead when Azelf, Kabutops, and even Lycanroc-Dusk generally outperform it for various reasons, while Slowking just can’t keep up with the constant metagame trends that go against it, which include Scizor’s continued dominance, the increased viability of Hydreigon, and the steady usage of Ghost-types like Alolan Marowak and Gengar.
Not every nomination that ultimately didn't go through was covered here, so feel free to PM me or post on my wall if you have questions about some other things that didn't end up happening. Anyways, it's time for our discussion slate, which is pretty huge this time, meaning we have plenty of things to talk about while we wait out this suspect test ;) Enjoy!Cobalion remains A
Despite my personal interest in seeing this change go through, Cobalion’s A ranking is currently rationalized through the popularity of Gliscor, which is a huge pain for it to deal with. While certainly one of the better Pokemon in its current subrank, it simply doesn’t maintain the same influence that Azumarill, Latias, and Mega Manectric do on account of its more apparent struggle to combat some other metagame trends as well.
Infernape remains A
It may be one of the better Pokemon in its current subrank, though its struggles in the metagame are apparent enough to warrant staying in said rank. It’s an amazing Scarfer, wallbreaker, and stallbreaker/sweeper, though all of its sets have increased competition recently (i.e. Lucario surging in usage as an NP user) and it generally just doesn’t warp the metagame around it in the way everything else in A+ does.
Crobat remains B+
Crobat’s vulnerability to Steels isn’t an insurmountable obstacle given its good synergy with several checks to them, like Infernape and Heracross. It’s also just a very valuable teambuilding tool, due to the increased usage of various Substitute users, which include Serperior, Suicune, and Kommo-O.
Jellicent remains B
Jellicent remains consistent as a defensive pivot due to the several switch-ins it can find, such as to Scizor, Cobalion, Infernape, and the increasingly viable Suicune. Taunt is an extremely valuable tool it has over its bulky Water-type competitors, and with the combination of Will-O-Wisp and Colbur Berry it often has ways around most of its paper offensive checks.
Kommo-O remains B-
Kommo-O has certainly emerged as a threat since the addition of some vital moves to its arsenal, and if running Bulletproof it can check Stakataka quite adequately. However, it struggles to choose an ability, doesn’t appreciate the increased use of Dragon-type Choice Scarf users, and struggles to keep up with the dominance of Mega Altaria. Its flaws utlimately rationalize staying in B-, despite arguably being one of the better Pokemon of its rank.
Mega Ampharos remains unranked
Despite its ability to strengthen Trick Room teams’ matchup against bulky Water-types, it also exacerbates the archetype’s already apparent weakness to defensive Grounds. Because of this, Mega Abomasnow is generally the better option as far as your Mega Evolution choice for Trick Room, which isn’t even a requirement.
Current Discussion Slate
Azumarill A+ to S - It was initially dropped due to its lesser influence in comparison to the rest of S, though the community deserves to weigh in on the decision more than they did when it was initially made. Azumarill's versatility between three very viable sets could easily push it up to the highest ranking possible, though the metagame has clearly adapted to it in the forms of the increased usage of Amoonguss and fast Water resists, and threats like Latias more frequently running Thunderbolt. Whether or not this is enough to keep in A+ is worth talking about more in depth.
Starmie A- to B+ - although it is still an offensive menace, Starmie hasn't appreciated the increased usage and viability of Alolan Muk. Very dominant threats in Mega Manectric and Scarf Hydreigon also cut into its usability, which can be seen as grounds for a drop.
Moltres B+ to A- - While still not a wildly popular threat, Moltres continues to pull its weight in the metagame thanks to the strength of both its offensive and defensive sets. Beating the majority of Stealth Rock setters in addition to countering some really important presences may be enough for it to rise, though the Stealth Rock weakness and Mega Aerodactyl’s presence could definitely suggest otherwise.
Nihilego B+ to B - Gengar's reintroduction to the tier has hurt Nihilego in that it now has a lot more competition as a Poison-type special attacker. It has more of a limited niche now due to this, only really being able to pull off offensive Rocks/TSpikes sets without facing stiff competition. Regardless, the increased viability of Mega Pidgeot, which it can provide teams with a stellar check to, is something to consider in addition to the fact that it can also take on special attackers like Mega Sceptile and Mega Manectric fairly comfortably.
Celebi B to B- - Celebi rose on the basis of being generally better than what it was ranked with in B-. It also currently enjoys the recent surge in usage of Amoonguss, and has a few distinguishable niches over Serperior, such as its ability to take on the likes of Mega Altaria and with Groundium Z, Alolan Muk more reliably. Regardless, the competition it faces is still severe, especially considering how awkward it can be to fit on teams, which brings a drop into question.
Mega Abomasnow B- to B - It has a lot of worth on the tier's newly viable Trick Room teams as an outstanding offensive check to defensive Water- and Ground-types, which are known struggles of archetype staples like Alolan Marowak and Stakataka. It does struggle a lot due to its horrid defensive utility, however, which makes staying in B- plausible.
Lycanroc-Dusk C to C+ - while not a lot has changed for it since its introduction, Lycanroc-Dusk has proven to be more worth using than most players assumed. Swords Dance + Tough Claws Accelerock is an excellent niche that it has going for it, which despite its awful defensive utility, allows it to carve a niche quite comfortably, which could warrant a slight bump in viability.
Slowbro Unranked - it was once among the tier's most potent defensive Pokemon. However, it has continued to respond horribly to metagame trends for months, and can't keep up with a metagame full of Pokemon that heavily threaten it, including Hydreigon, Scizor, Serperior, and more. The main argument for staying ranked is its ability to check/counter Cobalion and Infernape, which is still an extremely valuable quality.
Aromatisse Ranked - Aromatisse is defensively eclipsed by Sylveon, though a ranking on the basis of its OTR set is definitely something worth discussing. Nasty Plot + Trick Room + Fairium Z is a fine niche Aromatisse can use to distinguish itself as an offensive setter for Trick Room teams, due to being surprisingly really hard to deal with once set up. It most certainly has a niche, which justifies discussion for a ranking.
Uxie Ranked - Uxie has a lot of use on Trick Room teams as a solid secondary dedicated setter. The main reason it was kept from a ranking this time was due to being generally worse at its role than Cresselia, which is something worth noting when Trick Room teams often don't require more than one dedicated setter (offensive setters aren't uncommon or unviable). However, it could still definitely be worth placement in the ranks due to its unique set of tools (which includes Memento, Stealth Rock, etc.), though this would also result in a Cresselia rise.
Mega Houndoom is also technically a discussion point due to currently being too new to rank somewhere, so by all means talk about that as well! With that, this update is concluded. Thanks for reading, and happy posting! :)
Two mons I think that should rise to A- are Terrakion and Hippowdon. Terrakion is a lot more threatening lately with Flying types being everywhere, it often gets free setup as the flying types usually switch out fearing it's Stone edge, making it a lot scarier. Destroys almost anything in its path at +2 thanks to it's excellent offensive typing, and is a really strong threat right now. Hippowdon should rise imo because of its ability to check so many prevelant mons right now like Infernape, Cobalion, Mega Steelix, mega Aggron, Alolan Muk, Gengar, and more. A great 112 attack stat prevents it from being passive and steong ground stab lets it hit hard against what it needs to check. Excellent bulk and access to reliable recovery make Hippowdon a really solid defensive pokemon that people are usually arent prepared for.
