USUM UU Viability Ranking Thread V2

[sanguine]

I also dont think Haxorus is that great vs stall either since it gets toxiced by everything. Obviously its better vs stall than most mons, but its not amazing by any means.

It’s literally the best stallbreaker in the tier. Take every other factor away, and if you list the mons that threaten stall the most, it’s Haxorus. Saying something is not great vs stall because “it gets toxic’d” too much is irrelevant when that mon is Haxorus, who claims a kill every time it is brought out/sets up.

Alright now for my thoughts on some of the noms:

Mega Houndoom for A-: Disagree.
Mega Houndoom has not changed in any way since it dropped, nor has the meta, and shit like Maero/Scarf Ape or Lati or Hydrei/CB Ape Mach, Breloom Mach, Azu Jet, etc revenges it. We already knew about how good it was versus bulkier archetypes/how strong it is, so I don’t see why a change is necessary.

Mega Aggron for B+: Disagree,
The reasonings listed on the post were flawed, as finding a way to mega over the course of the game takes almost no effort, as well as Mega Aggron still being an excellent way to take on threats such as unboosted Breloom, CB Azu, etc. Nothing has changed in the meta to make it significantly worse, and thus, its ranking shouldn’t be changed.

Haxorus to B: Disagree
Once again, nothing has changed in the metagame to have this thing rise. The good matchup Haxorus has versus Stall/BO was already known, and it’s not like Stall is everywhere, either.

Now, for my own nominations:

Yanmega for C+/B-:
Yanmega’s ability to significantly damage anything not named Blissey, Spdef Gliscor, or a 4x resist after rocks with Bug Buzz, is extremely valuable for offensive archetypes. Upon reaching 1500 with it, I realized also defensively, that it beats Mega Shark if full most of the time, It can serve as a soft check to Breloom, as well as pivot with U-Turn. The speed tier also allows it to offensively pressure the likes of Nidoking, Heracross, as well as non-Scarfed Chandelure.

Latias to S:
Honestly, this change should’ve never happened. Latias is still as good as ever, and with the addition of Breloom to the tier, something Lati can hard check bar Spore, exemplifies how valuable Latias is to so many teams. +1 Dragonium can KO Muk after 2 Stealth Rock Switch-ins and a decent roll, Gigavolt Havoc Lati puts Mega Aggron in range of +1 Draco Meteor, etc. CM Lati is underprepared for, as well as splashable on most builds. Scarf is arguably the most common scarfer in the tier, and the most versatile, with support moves such as Healing Wish/Defog/Trick, or offensive moves such as Ice Beam/Thunderbolt / HP Fire to revenge or lure in threats such as Mega Altaria or Azumarill. Dragonium Z + Defog also pressures most hazard setters, as well, keeping rocks off the field on a consistent basis. Overall, Latias should be S because of just how good and consistent it is at whatever role you decide to place it in, and the sheer volume of playstyles and archetypes it fits on.

Mega Abomasnow to C:
Mega Abomasnow, simply put, is bad. SD sets are almost entirely outclassed by Breloom, the ubiquity of Breloom being able to revenge kill it as well hurts any chance it has of ever pulling off a sweep or getting more than one kill. Mixed Attacker sets also are constant 50/50s, and in my experience, aren’t consistent enough to fit most teams as a wall breaker. Add in the fact of its entire reliance on Ice Shard to kill faster threats, as well as being weak to rocks, Mega Abomasnow simply doesn’t make the cut for B-.

I hope you guys enjoyed this post, peace.

 

[billionbattler]

Mega Abomasnow to C:
Mega Abomasnow, simply put, is bad. SD sets are almost entirely outclassed by Breloom, the ubiquity of Breloom being able to revenge kill it as well hurts any chance it has of ever pulling off a sweep or getting more than one kill. Mixed Attacker sets also are constant 50/50s, and in my experience, aren’t consistent enough to fit most teams as a wall breaker. Add in the fact of its entire reliance on Ice Shard to kill faster threats, as well as being weak to rocks, Mega Abomasnow simply doesn’t make the cut for B-.

Disagree
M-Aboma was ranked their due to having great synregy in the revived TR playstyle and killing bulky waters such as Azumarill and revenging Serperior with Ice Shard will be incredibly useful and Breloom doesnt completely outclass Abomasnow in its SD sets because they both do different things with their sets. Breloom can revenge it with Mach but it cant switch in to a Blizzard or Ice Shard and Aboma can run special sets with blizzard and leaf storm.
Stay B-

 

[Nightingales]

Gonna disagree here. Tornadus might be a pain in the ass for stall, but nothing has really changed to make it rise. Maybe it's another Breloom check, but it gets bodied by Rock Tomb sets, so it can't switch in. Relying on a 70% accuracy move with 8PP also doesn't help it with stall. Also, there's this.
4 Atk Life Orb Tornadus Superpower over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 769-907 (107.7 - 127%) -- guaranteed KO in 2 turns after Leftovers recovery

Blissey comes in on the same turn as Tornadus and clicks Softboiled the next turn to scout the set. Next attack will leave it at 25% if it doesn't Softboil again. At that point, you have a -2 Tornadus and a Blissey that's pretty much free to recover on your face. And if it comes in, it still lives a Superpower and can immediately switch out to something that can pass a Wish off and live any given hit. Sylveon comes to mind.

To actually 2HKO Sylveon before rocks, it needs to not only hit BOTH Hurricanes, it also needs to have max roll on each. After rocks, it can hit once, get wished on, then see it click protect to be at max health after Leftovers, and safe to pass another wish off to a Blissey that lives a Hurricane unless high roll from both Superpower and Hurricane.

Maybe Mega Aggron? Heat Wave 2HKOs at best, which is better than most other situations because it's still a 90% before rocks. But then it runs the risk of being nuked by a neutral, no investment Heavy Slam. Which will always OHKO after rocks.

That's not even factoring in Life Orb recoil, which will gradually wear itself down while it throws itself at stall and fails to reliably break most of it.

In other words, keep it where it's at.

Edit: Forgot the offense matchup. Again, nothing's really changed for it. MAYBE Heat Wave is good, but then it also straight up gets murdered by most of our high-powered Scarfers the turn it wants to set up Tailwind, and while it's setting up Tailwind we have plenty of things that can eat a Hurricane and OHKO in return. Mega Manectric shuts it down due to Intimidate + Hurricane Resist + Heat Wave not killing, meaning it can pivot in and pivot out unless it's taken the turn to Tailwind, which means it'll probably have already TAKEN a hit and will lose to common priority.

Edit 2: Klefki used Thunder Wave! Tornadus is Paralyzed! It may be unable to move!

 

[Sage]

This is directed at nobody in particular. The last few weeks VR has felt incredibly petty to me and has not encouraged me to want to participate in discussion due to general rudeness and how stuck up people have been at times. We're here as a community to try and discuss the metagame, not grab likes or bash other people's posts. Try to be respectful about other's opinions when you're refuting them, even if you disagree. Also, try and make sure you've articulated your points well before you post, this can also help stem some of the toxicity. If we all go in with open minds and rational discussion this will be a better discussion place for us, as well as a more useful resource for the community at large.

One last thing I want to recommend, replays are really really effective at showing people what a mon is worth, much more than pure theorizing. If you feel like you haven't been heard, make sure to snag a couple games that showcase why your mon is valuable. This more applies to nomming things up than down.

So this isn't a complete waste of space, here's a couple mons that should go up.


Necrozma: B- to B

Necrozma is ridiculous. Other than having a perfect win percentage in SPL, the Specs set has very limited switch ins with the fantastic coverage that Heat Wave, Earth Power, and Signal Beam provide. It can ohko Hydreigon with Signal Beam and Stealth Rocks, Photon Geyser does 40% to Latias and having a 94% chance to ohko 76 SpD Gliscor with rocks. Finding switchins outside of Blissey is incredibly hard and forces the opponent to make good predictions thanks to Necrozma's high natural bulk and Prism Armor making it incredibly hard to OHKO. Because of how threatening offensive sets are, Necrozma also gets many chances to set Stealth Rocks early game because of the switches it forces. It can still run that great coverage depending on what your team needs, and also has Thunder Wave to prevent setup on bulkier sweepers.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-708064211
Lost this game to a Thunder Wave miss, but Necrozma is safely pivoted in, does 90% to a Hydreigon, once it gets back in blows through a Mega Aggron with Photon Geyser, kills an Azumarill from 93%, eats a Rotom-H Inferno Overdrive and also kills that.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-704816165
After some bad misplays early game on my part, Necrozma carries me to a win, picking up four kills and comfortably tanking a Mega Sharpedo Crunch on the last turn thanks to Prism Armor.

Rotom-H: C- to C/C+

A switch in to Mamoswine that's not passive. Checks many of the dangerous flying types in the tier. Lots of utility with Trick Scarf, Will o Wisp, and Pain Split even to give it sustain. Weakness to rocks obviously dampers its viability, and Rotom-Cut has a better matchup as a defogger, but Rotom-Heat definitely provides a way more valuable niche than some of the garbage in C- and C.


https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-693435534
Rotom-H keeps rocks off my side vs a stall team and tricks a Quagsire a choice scarf, helping me build pressure. Not really a great showcase game, but highlights the stall matchup and how it's not deadweight.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7uu-342926
Another game I lose (a couple play rough misses on Celebi didn't help, smh Kink), but Rotom-H is able to grab momentum by scaring the Krookodile out and volt switching, later coming in on Celebi even with Rocks up to force it out and go for the defog.

 

[Bebo]

It’s literally the best stallbreaker in the tier. Take every other factor away, and if you list the mons that threaten stall the most, it’s Haxorus. Saying something is not great vs stall because “it gets toxic’d” too much is irrelevant when that mon is Haxorus, who claims a kill every time it is brought out/sets up.

Alright now for my thoughts on some of the noms:

View attachment 103188 Mega Houndoom for A-: Disagree.
Mega Houndoom has not changed in any way since it dropped, nor has the meta, and shit like Maero/Scarf Ape or Lati or Hydrei/CB Ape Mach, Breloom Mach, Azu Jet, etc revenges it. We already knew about how good it was versus bulkier archetypes/how strong it is, so I don’t see why a change is necessary.

View attachment 103189 Mega Aggron for B+: Disagree,
The reasonings listed on the post were flawed, as finding a way to mega over the course of the game takes almost no effort, as well as Mega Aggron still being an excellent way to take on threats such as unboosted Breloom, CB Azu, etc. Nothing has changed in the meta to make it significantly worse, and thus, its ranking shouldn’t be changed.

View attachment 103187 Haxorus to B: Disagree
Once again, nothing has changed in the metagame to have this thing rise. The good matchup Haxorus has versus Stall/BO was already known, and it’s not like Stall is everywhere, either.

Now, for my own nominations:

View attachment 103190 Yanmega for C+/B-:
Yanmega’s ability to significantly damage anything not named Blissey, Spdef Gliscor, or a 4x resist after rocks with Bug Buzz, is extremely valuable for offensive archetypes. Upon reaching 1500 with it, I realized also defensively, that it beats Mega Shark if full most of the time, It can serve as a soft check to Breloom, as well as pivot with U-Turn. The speed tier also allows it to offensively pressure the likes of Nidoking, Heracross, as well as non-Scarfed Chandelure.

View attachment 103186 Latias to S:
Honestly, this change should’ve never happened. Latias is still as good as ever, and with the addition of Breloom to the tier, something Lati can hard check bar Spore, exemplifies how valuable Latias is to so many teams. +1 Dragonium can KO Muk after 2 Stealth Rock Switch-ins and a decent roll, Gigavolt Havoc Lati puts Mega Aggron in range of +1 Draco Meteor, etc. CM Lati is underprepared for, as well as splashable on most builds. Scarf is arguably the most common scarfer in the tier, and the most versatile, with support moves such as Healing Wish/Defog/Trick, or offensive moves such as Ice Beam/Thunderbolt / HP Fire to revenge or lure in threats such as Mega Altaria or Azumarill. Dragonium Z + Defog also pressures most hazard setters, as well, keeping rocks off the field on a consistent basis. Overall, Latias should be S because of just how good and consistent it is at whatever role you decide to place it in, and the sheer volume of playstyles and archetypes it fits on.

View attachment 103185 Mega Abomasnow to C:
Mega Abomasnow, simply put, is bad. SD sets are almost entirely outclassed by Breloom, the ubiquity of Breloom being able to revenge kill it as well hurts any chance it has of ever pulling off a sweep or getting more than one kill. Mixed Attacker sets also are constant 50/50s, and in my experience, aren’t consistent enough to fit most teams as a wall breaker. Add in the fact of its entire reliance on Ice Shard to kill faster threats, as well as being weak to rocks, Mega Abomasnow simply doesn’t make the cut for B-.

I hope you guys enjoyed this post, peace.

For the haxorus nom you might be right that Stall isnt common (I face it a decent amount of times on ladder)
but BO is easily the most seen type of team on ladder which haxorus also breaks through very well and a mon that can single handedly take down stall by itself should not stay in B- even though stall isnt THAT common

 

[Hilomilo]

Ranking Update
For those of you that are curious about Latias's current placement, that is something that the ranking council has yet to discuss in depth. I'm not sure what the solution we're looking to reach is quite yet, but I personally acknowledge that Latias sort of sits in a weird ranking spot currently, since for a lot of the council it isn't up to par with what sits in S, but to me it's above what else it's currently ranked with. Something will be figured out soon enough, but in the meantime here are changes and discussion points for you guys to talk about:

Rises

B -> B+

B- -> B

B- -> B

C- -> C+

UR -> C+

Drops

A -> A-

A- -> B+

B- -> C+

C- -> UR

reasons for rises

Volcanion greatly appreciates the current popularity of Azumarill, as well as the increased usage and viability of several presences it matches up well against, such as Amoonguss, Mega Aggron, and Moltres. Its Choice Scarf set has been putting in a lot of work lately as a reliable revenge killer of several top threats, such as Serperior and Scizor, which among its other good responses to metagame trends, further justifies a rise to B+ at this stage.

Haxorus has responded to the recent surge in stall viability incredibly well due to its access to the tools necessary for 6-0ing a plethora of commonly seen defensive builds. Moreover, both its Swords Dance and Dragon Dance are often threatening enough to pick up a kill against the majority of other team archetypes. You could argue that stall’s presence has been known of long enough for nothing to have necessarily changed for Haxorus, though it reasonably could have risen with some of the other stall staples and stallbreakers that saw upgrades in rank not long ago, which makes going up now fair.

Necrozma has really shined in recent tournament play, which in addition to the versatility between three great sets in Stealth Rock, Swords Dance, and Choice Specs rationalizes a boost to B. Its ability, bulk, and movepool allow it to take on a decent portion of the metagame on its own and contribute to its former placement in B- having sold it rather short.

Another Pokemon that has definitely been proving its worth lately, Rotom-H proves to compress roles extremely nicely. Switching into Mamoswine reliably, having just what it needs in its arsenal to be an annoyance to multiple play styles, and possessing a fantastic offensive typing all contribute to an increase in reason to be used on offense as a reliable defogger. This justifies the two-rank jump, due to Rotom-H’s better splashability and consistency than the rest of C and C-.

Finding placement on the ranks due to the strength of its Choice Specs set, Yanmega really can be an offensive menace. Its typing and frailty give it a really hard time finding opportunities to come in and begin breaking, which is why C+ is fair, though once given the opportunity to fire off an attack it’s going to immediately prove its worth due to the majority of teams lacking a reliable switch-in to Tinted Lens Bug Buzz.

reasons for drops

Stakataka hype has dramatically died down, as it has proven to be a lot easier to deal with than when it initially dropped. The tier has plenty of popular and viable bulky Water-, Ground-, and Steel-types capable of taking it on, while Breloom’s reintroduction also hurt it more than anything. Overall, it just doesn’t exert the same presence, and could drop even further in the future.

Mega Beedrill is still amazing offensively, though it has certainly struggled to keep up with a few metagame trends. Choice Scarf users such as Hydreigon, Latias, and Infernape are used more than ever, defensive Pokemon like Alomomola, Hippowdon, and more have increased popularity, and other Mega Evolutions such as Aerodactyl and especially Manectric, which competes with Beedrill as an offensive pivot, have a lot less current opportunity cost. It is by no means a bad Pokemon, especially considering its great Speed and ability, though it has definitely become less worthy of placement in the As.

It was close to rising in a recent update, though now Mega Abomasnow is struggling on account of the stiff competition it faces. Breloom is almost always preferable as a Grass-type Swords Dance user with priority, due to its much better typing, coverage, access to Spore, and power. Furthermore, Mega Abomasnow suffers from how easily offensively pressured it is, especially considering the popularity of offensive Pokemon such as Scizor and the rising Volcanion.

Gigalith doesn’t have a whole lot of incentive to be used right now, which is why it lost its rank as a whole. Hippowdon can provide sand in addition to being better defensively for a few important reasons (typing, access to recovery, etc.) while Gigalith also just generally doesn’t have enough accumulative niches to compensate for its flaws, which include a horrible vulnerability to Scizor, Fighting-, Grass-, Water-, and Ground-type weaknesses, and the lack of recovery preventing it from consistently checking the Pokemon it aims to check.

rejected nominations

Alolan Muk A -> A-
Alolan Muk is very important right now as a blanket check to the vast majority of UU’s special attackers. It runs into a few flaws, such as its lackluster physical bulk, paltry speed, and lack of recovery, though this is why it isn’t A+ rather than undeserving of its current A rank, since its ability to stand up to the likes of Latias, Mega Manectric, Hydreigon, Gengar, and more is beyond useful for the majority of offensive teams it’s fitted on.

Primarina A -> A-
It definitely has increased competition as a breaker due to sharing a typing with Azumarill, though the offensive presence it exerts is too strong to deny it of an A ranking. Primarina still severely lacks offensive switch-ins for the majority of offensive builds due to its ways around several traditional switch-ins and the lack of recovery that some of its answers, such as Empoleon and Alolan Muk, struggle with.

Doublade B+ -> B
Doublade’s lacking usage isn’t worth going unnoticed, though it still does match up against a large portion of the metagame quite well. It doesn’t appreciate the metagame’s universal increase in bulk, but it can check Breloom extremely adequately while standing up to other extremely defining forces in Scizor, Mega Altaria, Cobalion, and Latias.

Alolan Marowak B -> B-/C+
Alolan Marowak is staying in B for now, as while it can definitely overwhelm itself in trying to fulfill all of its roles, it still puts in a lot of work as a breaker. Mega Manectric’s popularity can allow Alolan Marowak to find free turns to fire off its obscenely powerful attacks, while the general lack of defensive counterplay is also worth keeping it from dropping to B- or C+ for now.

Discussion Points (done in smaller font because I seriously wrote some essays this time around):

Breloom A -> A+
It has plentiful viable ways around its counterplay, such as through the use of Natural Gift with a Ganlon Berry, in addition to generally just posing a major offensive threat in the metagame. Technician Mach Punch is absolutely devastating for most opposing teams in the late-game, while Poison Heal Swords Dance sets are also currently quite viable for their stall matchup. The threat it poses against the vast majority of play styles puts its current placement into question, though its lacking defensive utility makes this less clear cut than it may seem. Breloom’s terrible typing can both complicate setup and leave it vulnerable to the many faster Fighting-resists the tier has adapted to it with, such as Moltres, Celebi, Crobat, and more. Whether or not the tier’s adaptations to it in the past weeks are enough to keep it from rising is worth discussing.

Mega Aggron A- -> A
Mega Aggron’s typing, ability, and colossal bulk are extremely useful tools in the current metagame. It can blanket check a huge amount of the meta’s physical attackers, such as Azumarill, Mega Altaria, and unboosted Breloom, in addition to even having fair matchups against Pokemon it may need to stand up to in emergency situations, like Scizor and even Infernape if running Earthquake. Its lack of recovery and possibly just being less generally viable than what it would be ranked with in A if risen are worth considering, though its use in the metagame could easily be notable enough to suggest otherwise.

Stakataka A- -> B+
Whether or not this former offensive behemoth should drop further is up for debate, due to the fact that its hype really has drastically died down. Stakataka is just rather easy to prepare for and deal with in comparison to what else is in even the rank it just dropped to, considering the ubiquity of Fighting-types and the metagame’s general increase in bulk. It’s still a fantastic Pokemon and a potentially deadly sweeper, though the tier’s adaptations to it certainly put whether or not it’s defining enough to remain in the A ranks into question.

Mega Houndoom B+ -> A-
Mega Houndoom hasn’t had a lot of metagame trends change for or against it in the short time it’s been legal, though whether or not it deserves a higher ranking than its initial placement in B+ is worth looking into. As a special Fire-type booster, it can prove to be an excellent middle ground between Infernape and Salazzle due to its better Speed than the former and crucial advantages in power and typing over the latter. Its perks to being used are very plentiful, which could ultimately justifying being a rank higher than before.

Chandelure B -> B+
Chandelure has a lot of use right now, and that could be more accurately represented in slotting it up in B+. Its typing has proven to be key when it comes to revenge killing a few crucial threats, which include the recently introduced Breloom and other tier titans in Scizor and Serperior, which Chandelure can guarantee a revenge kill against by virtue of infiltrator. It still does struggle to keep up with the popularity of both Blissey and Alolan Muk, though it’s been putting in a lot of work recently with its Choice Scarf set particularly, which deserves some attention.

Tsareena C+ -> C
Tsareena sits in kind of a weird spot at the moment. It directly competes with Breloom as a physical Grass-type while also not necessarily appreciating some of the Pokemon that have increased usage as a result of Breloom’s presence in the meta, like Amoonguss and Moltres. However, with its typing and Queenly Majesty it can provide teams with a decent situational check to the loom, in addition to continuing to pose a large threat to offensive teams due to the strength of its Choice Band set.

Hope you guys enjoyed! If there's something you're curious about, feel free to let me know on my wall or through PMs. Be civil in discussing your opinions, and happy posting! :)

 

[justdrew]

Breloom for A+, yes please. Does this mon look like it gives a shit about anything? This Pokémon has so much diversity in sets it’s ridiculous. It has a set adapted to face any wall a team struggles with. Amoongus is giving you problems? Natural Gift Ice. Stall is grinding your gears? Poison Heal Bulk Up or Swords Dance. Set up sweepers are yanking your chain? Sash Spore. The versatility of this Pokémon is unparalleled by any other stall breaker, wall breaker, or Fighting-type for that matter.

The Team I Use

Breloom @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spore
- Bullet Seed
- Mach Punch
- Rock Tomb

Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Knock Off

Scizor @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off
- Superpower

Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 152 Atk / 180 SpA / 176 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Freeze-Dry
- Stealth Rock

Latias @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic
- Defog
- Healing Wish

Pidgeot @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Refresh
- Roost
- Work Up

A STAB priority user with technician and the same base attack as Scizor and is faster? Oh gee this gives hyper offense a way better match up against Scizor. It’s coverage allows it to hit most walls super effectively and has the ability to Spore and feast on the opposing team. It may be threatened by the majority of Flying-types in the tier but they can’t switch in to a Rock Tomb. Grass-types do wall Breloom but there are very free viable Grass-types in UU anyway which basically gives Breloom free range against many teams. This is currently my favorite Pokémon in the tier because it consistently has a good match up against all play styles.

 

[Jade]

Hey guys, just wanted to voice my thoughts on the potential rises/drops:

Breloom to A+: Agreed.

Look on your team, and tell me your Spore 3 attacks Loom switch in. Loom is just ridiculous, and also surprisingly versatile in the sets it can use. NGift Ice, Spore 3 Attacks, Poison Heal, and even Spore SD can work very well against teams. It also annoys offense with priority Mach Punch, since it is also faster than Scizor. It also makes a great revenge killer, revenging threats such as Stakataka and the aforementioned Scizor.

Mega Houndoom to A-: On the fence.

Not much has changed for the meta for Doomer to rise. Weakness to priority such as Mach Punch and Aqua Jet can really rain on its parade, and also it is a bit frail and weak to rocks. However, it has a way to annoy fat teams with NP + Taunt, and NP 3 attacks can sweep late-game against slower teams.

Mega Aggron A: Agree.

Mega Aggron is just to bulky and with its Steel typing and Filter ability can check many threats. Though it is prone to getting worn down. Sylveon + Mega Aggron + Water core helps it with its longevity. Checking the S rank mons is also another good trait: Scizor is hit by Fire Punch, Gliscor is hit by Avalanche, and Azumarill does not like taking Heavy Slams (or if its perish trap, it can be roared out).

Stakataka to B+: Agree.

While it is still powerful against offense, the hype for this thing has really died down. Many teams have bulky Water and Ground types that really screw it over. Its OTR set can annoy offense and bulky offense, but I think that this still deserves a drop.

Chadelure to B+: Agree.

Been messing around with SubCM, and it is really fun. Its typing allows it to check threats such as Cobalion, while also giving it a helpful resistance to both of Brelooms STABs. A weakness to rocks hurts it, but pairing it with a cleric isnt a bad idea.

Tsareena to C: Disagree.

While Breloom gives it competition as a physically attacking Grass type, it can still function as a spinner able to check Breloom, Azumarill, and other things.It can also pivot with U-Turn and can use Knock Off for spinblockers.

Thats all i have today, ciao!

 

[Freeroamer]

I think Krookodile should move back up to A-, it seems out of place in B+ when you compare the Pokémon next to it. It’s seen massive usage in SPL, currently sitting joint 4th in overall usage not including the 3 used in 2 games that took place today. I think there was a perception that scarf suffered a decline in viability after the Serperior drop which is absolutely fair because people looked to stuff like the dragons and ape as they could actually switch into and threaten serp. However with serp not being as prevalent as it was at one point and the set being used on teams that can actually revenge serp with other means (Lycans had a starmie and like 4 Pokémon it couldn’t set up on while bush had Pidgeot, Mamo Amoonguss and Manipulative’s team didn’t really give it much room either), it gets a chance to shine again. The two things that I see being really attractive about Scarf are the ability to actually block Volt Switch from Manectric compared to Latias and Hydreigon, giving it a stronger matchup vs a very prominent threat, and the versatility of being able to run any of Stone Edge / Iron Tail / Fire Fang / Superpower in its last slot, giving you a greater ability to revenge kill the threats that your team necessitates. I don’t think it’s a meta defining threat but I do think it’s got good enough to go back into the A ranks.

 

[vivalospride]

Hola, just felt like giving a few thoughts since I haven't been super active here and I have some free time.

Tsareena to C: Hail naw

Tsareena did indeed get "competition" as a physical grass type. If your looking for a physical grass type to just bop shit, theres no real reason to use Tsareena over Breloom, literally none... Breloom is just better in every way honestly. Thing is, no one is using Tsareena w/o it having Rapid Spin in mind, which is where it's niche lies. I've been playing around with stuff like Mega Aerodactyl + Tsareena and it works very well. It fuckin 2HKOs Breloom with grass move, which is brazy... and it's a spinner that beats some of the most common rockers like Hippowdon and Swampert. Yeah no shit, like I said Breloom is way better than Tsareena, literally no contest, but if I need a spinner that pressures waters/grounds n shit, is Breloom the answer??? Obviously not cause it doesn't have spin lmao.

Chandelure to B+: Yuh

I fuckin love this mon rn. Flame Body Chandy is super fun to fuck with Scizor, and Sub CM is super hard to deal with. Yes Muk is literally everywhere, but it's not hard to double predicting the Muk switch in... OR you can just click sub and dip once Muk comes in and pursuits as a good midground. Ghost type switch ins are literally non existent, and a lot of common ones like Krook n shit get chunked by Flamethrower/Fire Blast. This mon checks two of the most common and most powerful mons in the tier in Scizor and Breloom, dont schleep.

Breloom to A+: lmfao sure

If were being a hunnit why tf isn't this mon S? I mean it has a lot of decent checks, p much any fast flying type is enough to deal with it... but let's be real here. Bullet Seed can fuckin OHKO Nape after rocks unboosted, that's absurd (yes ik Nape is made of paper, it's absurd regardless). Spore/Rock Tomb is enough to keep a lot of flying types at bay, and Technician boosted Mach Punch is fuckin stupid and so is Bullet Seed.

Doublade to B: uh nah

Lol why? This mon checks like half the tier, Breloom, Lati, Cobalion, Scizor, etc. gtfo with this.

Alright lads were gettin to my shit now.

Nihilego to B+:

This is easily the best switch in we have to the annoying ass Fire + Flying coverage that the burds get. Why is this B, w/ Pain Split, Rocks, Tspikes, etc. This mon is the Paul Pierce, do not schleep im fuckin telling you. This mon can reliably switch into Mega Burd and Moltres like whenever tf it wants and is one of the two mons we have w/ access to Beast Boost, which is a broken ability in general. YES, this mon is weak to every form of priority ever, I get it, Azu beats, Scizor fuckin destroys, Loom doesn't really beat cause the poison typing makes Mach Punch neutral... but this isn't it's role, so does this argument really mean anything. I think what really sets it back, is that it's so weak to these priority users AND at the same time it can be Pursuit trapped so fuckin easily. It's paper defense stats really sucks for it, but like I said, this thing can infinitely switch into Hurricanes and force burds out all day, which I know a lot of people that struggle switching into that Fire + Flying coverage. On top of this, pif has been experimented with this mon on stall and has proved it has utility on stall builds in setting rocks and checking very common stall breakers in Togekiss, Pidgey, etc. Do I think this mon is amazing? nah, is it B rank tho?? hell nah. Like looking at the vr, is there a legit reason Terrakion is over Nihilego, cuz it actually gets fucked by priority even harder than Nihilego, and it's a rock type that doesn't check Mega Burd... Nihi is lit don't sleep pls thanks :D

lastly, ban azu. Thanks.

 

[LORD HELIX 65]

Just wanted to give my 2 cents on purely Stakataka, and I really do not think it should drop again. Sure, it's relatively easy to prepare for, but if you don't have an answer for it and you let it take out basically one pokemon, it gets +1 to it's already massive attack and it can honestly be gg. It can get past most of it's ground and water type check with +1 gyro ball and Rockium-Z most of the time anyways. Sure it has a lot of answers but so does Mamoswine and it's an excellent pokemon in UU. Keep it at A-

 

[Thigh-High Fruit Loop]

Spiritomb: Unranked -> to C/C-
Spiritomb seems really terrible on paper. But It does have a niche. Being able to Switch-in on threats like Starmie/Gengar/Latias and Pursuit trap them with alright success.

Spiritomb @ Assault Vest
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Pursuit
- Foul Play/Shadow Sneak
- Sucker Punch
- Psychic/Hidden Power Fire/Hidden Power Ice
This checks as I said before Starmie/Gengar/Latias/Mega Sceptile to an extent which are all pretty notable threats in the tier.

Defensive Calcs

+2 252 SpA Celebi Tectonic Rage (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Spiritomb: 145-171 (47.8 - 56.4%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Latias Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Spiritomb: 258-304 (85.1 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252 SpA Latias Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Spiritomb: 193-228 (63.6 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Gengar Dazzling Gleam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Spiritomb: 120-142 (39.6 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Spiritomb: 93-111 (30.6 - 36.6%) -- 60.6% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Sceptile-Mega Leaf Storm over 5 turns vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Spiritomb: 247-296 (81.5 - 97.6%) -- not a KO
252 SpA Starmie Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Spiritomb: 115-136 (37.9 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Spiritomb: 117-138 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Spiritomb: 142-169 (46.7 - 55.5%) -- 73.8% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Spiritomb: 142-168 (46.7 - 55.2%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Spiritomb Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Sceptile-Mega: 184-220 (65.4 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Spiritomb: 78-94 (25.6 - 30.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Spiritomb: 113-134 (37.1 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Offensive Calcs

4 SpA Spiritomb Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 90-106 (27.6 - 32.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
4 SpA Spiritomb Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Sceptile-Mega: 184-220 (65.4 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Spiritomb Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile-Mega: 127-150 (45.1 - 53.3%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Spiritomb Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 186-218 (54.5 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Spiritomb Pursuit (switching out) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 162-192 (47.5 - 56.3%) -- 24.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Spiritomb Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 140-168 (41 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Spiritomb Pursuit (switching out) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 242-288 (92.3 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Spiritomb Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 212-252 (80.9 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Spiritomb Pursuit (switching out) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latias: 176-210 (58.2 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Spiritomb Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latias: 152-182 (50.3 - 60.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Spiritomb Pursuit (switching out) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 186-218 (71.2 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Spiritomb Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 162-192 (62 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So for being able to check notable special threats in UU
Spiritomb: Unranked -> to C/C-

 

[Tuthur]

View attachment 104233
Spiritomb: Unranked -> to C/C-
Spiritomb seems really terrible on paper. But It does have a niche. Being able to Switch-in on threats like Starmie/Gengar/Latias and Pursuit trap them with alright success.

Spiritomb @ Assault Vest
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Pursuit
- Foul Play/Shadow Sneak
- Sucker Punch
- Psychic/Hidden Power Fire/Hidden Power Ice
This checks as I said before Starmie/Gengar/Latias/Mega Sceptile to an extent which are all pretty notable threats in the tier.

Defensive Calcs

+2 252 SpA Celebi Tectonic Rage (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Spiritomb: 145-171 (47.8 - 56.4%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Latias Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Spiritomb: 258-304 (85.1 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252 SpA Latias Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Spiritomb: 193-228 (63.6 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Gengar Dazzling Gleam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Spiritomb: 120-142 (39.6 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Spiritomb: 93-111 (30.6 - 36.6%) -- 60.6% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Sceptile-Mega Leaf Storm over 5 turns vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Spiritomb: 247-296 (81.5 - 97.6%) -- not a KO
252 SpA Starmie Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Spiritomb: 115-136 (37.9 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Spiritomb: 117-138 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Spiritomb: 142-169 (46.7 - 55.5%) -- 73.8% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Spiritomb: 142-168 (46.7 - 55.2%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Spiritomb Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Sceptile-Mega: 184-220 (65.4 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Spiritomb: 78-94 (25.6 - 30.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Spiritomb: 113-134 (37.1 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Offensive Calcs

4 SpA Spiritomb Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 90-106 (27.6 - 32.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
4 SpA Spiritomb Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Sceptile-Mega: 184-220 (65.4 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Spiritomb Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile-Mega: 127-150 (45.1 - 53.3%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Spiritomb Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 186-218 (54.5 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Spiritomb Pursuit (switching out) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 162-192 (47.5 - 56.3%) -- 24.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Spiritomb Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 140-168 (41 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Spiritomb Pursuit (switching out) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 242-288 (92.3 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Spiritomb Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 212-252 (80.9 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Spiritomb Pursuit (switching out) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latias: 176-210 (58.2 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Spiritomb Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latias: 152-182 (50.3 - 60.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Spiritomb Pursuit (switching out) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 186-218 (71.2 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Spiritomb Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 162-192 (62 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So for being able to check notable special threats in UU
Spiritomb: Unranked -> to C/C-

Why would I use it over Muk-Alola ?

 

[Thigh-High Fruit Loop]

Why would I use it over Muk-Alola ?

Like I said, it's niche, And it takes stuff like celebi on better if celebi is running groundium-z
Also it gets Foul Play which is worth mentioning
Also Spiritomb gets Sucker Punch

 

[Felixx]

Like I said, it's niche, And it takes stuff like celebi on better if celebi is running groundium-z
Also it gets Foul Play which is worth mentioning

Celebi isn't prominant enough for you to use a literally worse A-Muk, plus Muk has actual offensive presence and knock off utility to annoy switch-ins, and lets not forget to mention that Muk can also beat Serp unlike Spiritomb.

 

[Thigh-High Fruit Loop]

Celebi isn't prominant enough for you to use a literally worse A-Muk, plus Muk has actual offensive presence and knock off utility to annoy switch-ins, and lets not forget to mention that Muk can also beat Serp unlike Spiritomb.

True. I just enjoy having Foul Play and a fighting type switch-in more in most situation when ground is a very common coverage type. A worse A-Muk still isn't a bad A-Muk and I feel Ghost instead of Poison as a second typing can be good in some situations.

 

[tmacbalanced]

Celebi isn't prominant enough for you to use a literally worse A-Muk, plus Muk has actual offensive presence and knock off utility to annoy switch-ins, and lets not forget to mention that Muk can also beat Serp unlike Spiritomb.

Sub Leech Seed can beat A-Muk upon switch-in, Spiritomb has infiltrator to at least mess with it.

To be honest, I think the set could be tweaked a little but, it doesn't look too bad on paper. A-Muk usually gets messed with by what it's supposed to beat but, at least Spiritomb has STAB sucker punch and infiltrator to offset what the opponent might try to do. If I saw a replay of it working then, I might agree with the nomination but as for now, it just looks like speculation and theorymoning

 

[Darksafadao]

Hi, I would like to propose a rise:

B+ → A-
I think Tentacruel has a lot of things going for it in this current meta, such as:
- Being a splashable spinner that can check Scizor well;
- Being one of the few mons that can switch into Azumarill to scout what set it is running;
- Being able to check Breloom if running poison STAB, which is becoming more common. Such move also helps it not allow Serperior to get a free sub;
- Being one of the few Toxic Spikers (and probably the best one) in the tier.
I really think this set of traits of being a splashable spinner, being a great answer to two S rank mons (and other common threats such as Cobalion and Lucario) and even being able to check Breloom, our newest UU mon, makes it worth of rising in the rank.
----------
And for the record, I also agree with Krookodile rising. It has a really good niche as a fast pursuiter, it's a great scarfer/z-move user and Intimidate is just really good.

 

[xMarth]

So I saw in the NP thread that Slowbro is considered to be pretty bad. I didn't believe that for a second so I started to look into it and was suprised to find it at C-. After some testing I really have to disagree with the ranking. I think it should be on par with Alomomola but would settle for B+. It generally covers many of the same threats Alomomola does except it carries a much higher offensive presence as well as the potential to sweep. Slowbro can actually use Z-moves effectively to lure in would be checks as well as benefiting greatly from the reduced Knock Off damage. I've been enjoying using a Calm Mind+Icium Z set that can OHKO many of its usually switch ins. I'll show some calcs to prove my point.

+1 0 SpA Slowbro Subzero Slammer (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Celebi: 374-442 (109.6 - 129.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. +1 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 162-192 (41.1 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Slowbro Subzero Slammer (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 272-322 (83.6 - 99%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. +1 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 296-350 (75.1 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Slowbro Subzero Slammer (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 262-310 (90 - 106.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. +1 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 230-272 (58.3 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 0 SpA Slowbro Subzero Slammer (175 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 300-354 (99.3 - 117.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Latias Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 220-261 (55.8 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Slowbro Subzero Slammer (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Altaria-Mega: 242-286 (83.1 - 98.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Pixilate Altaria-Mega Return vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 181-214 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

In my opinion being able to lure threats that normally stop most bulky waters gives Slowbro a solid niche over Alomomola.

 

[Lugia Proto]

So I saw in the NP thread that Slowbro is considered to be pretty bad. I didn't believe that for a second so I started to look into it and was suprised to find it at C-. After some testing I really have to disagree with the ranking. I think it should be on par with Alomomola but would settle for B+. It generally covers many of the same threats Alomomola does except it carries a much higher offensive presence as well as the potential to sweep. Slowbro can actually use Z-moves effectively to lure in would be checks as well as benefiting greatly from the reduced Knock Off damage. I've been enjoying using a Calm Mind+Icium Z set that can OHKO many of its usually switch ins. I'll show some calcs to prove my point.

+1 0 SpA Slowbro Subzero Slammer (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Celebi: 374-442 (109.6 - 129.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. +1 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 162-192 (41.1 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Slowbro Subzero Slammer (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 272-322 (83.6 - 99%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. +1 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 296-350 (75.1 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Slowbro Subzero Slammer (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 262-310 (90 - 106.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. +1 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 230-272 (58.3 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 0 SpA Slowbro Subzero Slammer (175 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 300-354 (99.3 - 117.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Latias Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 220-261 (55.8 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Slowbro Subzero Slammer (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Altaria-Mega: 242-286 (83.1 - 98.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Pixilate Altaria-Mega Return vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 181-214 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

In my opinion being able to lure threats that normally stop most bulky waters gives Slowbro a solid niche over Alomomola.

Okay, I see where you're going with this, but I have to disagree. Those calcs mean pretty much nothing, why is a slowbro going to stay in on a hydreigon? Anyways, I feel like it might deserve a rise, to something like C or C+

 

[LORD HELIX 65]

So I saw in the NP thread that Slowbro is considered to be pretty bad. I didn't believe that for a second so I started to look into it and was suprised to find it at C-. After some testing I really have to disagree with the ranking. I think it should be on par with Alomomola but would settle for B+. It generally covers many of the same threats Alomomola does except it carries a much higher offensive presence as well as the potential to sweep. Slowbro can actually use Z-moves effectively to lure in would be checks as well as benefiting greatly from the reduced Knock Off damage. I've been enjoying using a Calm Mind+Icium Z set that can OHKO many of its usually switch ins. I'll show some calcs to prove my point.

+1 0 SpA Slowbro Subzero Slammer (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Celebi: 374-442 (109.6 - 129.6%) - guaranteed OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. +1 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 162-192 (41.1 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Slowbro Subzero Slammer (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 272-322 (83.6 - 99%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. +1 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 296-350 (75.1 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Slowbro Subzero Slammer (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 262-310 (90 - 106.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. +1 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 230-272 (58.3 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 0 SpA Slowbro Subzero Slammer (175 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 300-354 (99.3 - 117.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Latias Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 220-261 (55.8 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Slowbro Subzero Slammer (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Altaria-Mega: 242-286 (83.1 - 98.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Pixilate Altaria-Mega Return vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 181-214 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

In my opinion being able to lure threats that normally stop most bulky waters gives Slowbro a solid niche over Alomomola.

Ok while I agree with your post and that Slowbro needs to rise, A- might be a stretch imo. Although I do think it should rise to either B- B, or even B+. Slowbro is a seriously antimeta mon that is slept on and dismissed as a very mediocre pokemon far too much. It may be vulnerable to many key threats, but the recent loss of Rotom-W really helped, and Slowbro can bait some of it big threats like Serperior with fire blast, and Altaria with Icium-Z. Bro keeps popular mons like Gliscor, Scarf/band breloom, Infernape, Cobalion, banded scizor, Hippowdon, Stakataka, Azumarill, Mega Aggron, Mamoswine, and literally damn near any fighting type. It can actually be extremely effective against certain stall teams thanks to a combination of being able to set up easily, reliable recovery, and Regenerator. While it is suspectible to Toxic, It makes up ground for this with its excellent 95/110/80 bulk and relatively easy way to set up. Slowbro has been slept on for far too long and should now be recognized as a relevant, but not mainstream, defensive threat.

 

[xMarth]

Okay, I see where you're going with this, but I have to disagree. Those calcs mean pretty much nothing, why is a slowbro going to stay in on a hydreigon? Anyways, I feel like it might deserve a rise, to something like C or C+

The calcs show that Slowbro can beat common answers to bulky waters either on the switch or after 1 Calm Mind. I was pretty sure I made that clear but thanks for telling me they mean nothing. In fact here's a replay in which I stay in on a Hydreigon and Slowbro OHKOs it and still has enough health left to check Mamoswine. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-713694659

Ok while I agree with your post and that Slowbro needs to rise, A- or even B+ is definitely a stretch imo. Although I do think it should rise to either C+, B-, or even B. Slowbro is a seriously antimeta mon that is slept on and dismissed as a very mediocre pokemon far too much. It may be vulnerable to many key threats, but the recent loss of Rotom-W really helped, and Slowbro can bait some of it big threats like Serperior with fire blast, and Altaria with Icium-Z. Bro keeps popular mons like Gliscor, Scarf/band breloom, Infernape, Cobalion, banded scizor, Hippowdon, Stakataka, Azumarill, Mega Aggron, Mamoswine, and literally damn near any fighting type. It can actually be extremely effective against certain stall teams thanks to a combination of being able to set up easily, reliable recovery, and Regenerator. While it is suspectible to Toxic, It makes up ground for this with its excellent 95/110/80 bulk and relatively easy way to set up. Slowbro has been slept on for far too long and should now be recognized as a relevant, but not mainstream, defensive threat.

I don't think A- is too much of a stretch when Alomomola is there because Slowbro counters many of the same threats and shares the same weaknesses to top tier Pokemon like Breloom and Serperior. The extra Psychic typing does give him a few more weaknesses but it also gives him key resists to Psychic and Fighting. Slowbro can fill a very similar role to Alomomola and the match ups where Alomomola would win where Slowbro wouldn't are made up for by the match ups where Slowbro wins. For instance Alomomola is a solid Scizor check while Slowbro is a solid Gliscor check. I'm sure there are more instances like that but that is probably the most relevant one.

 

[pokemonisfun]

I must say regardless of where Slowbro falls, I love xMarth's throwing caution to the wind. Yes! Stop the elitists who think change can only come at a snail's pace! There is nothing inherently wrong moving up many ranks as many people suggest.

 

[justdrew]

So this Pokemon is a viable member of any stall team (e.g. Hikari stall) and really puts in work as a Stealth Rock setter. I am nomming Registeel to C or above. Some may call it a discount Mega Steelix/Mega Aggron but it has great all around stats picking up for Aggron and Steelix's lack of Special Defense. I mean really this Pokemon is a Steel-type Blissey without reliable recovery but a better defensive typing because Steel>Normal. It does need the support a full stall team offers but this Pokemon is definately viable. Outclassed? Sure, thats why I'm only nomming it to C where every RU and below Pokemon begins its journey. Maybe if it gets more usage on stall than it currently does it can rise in the Tiers as a more viable stall Pokemon. One thing that I really appreciate about this Pokemon is that provides a much needed Stealth Rock setter for a team allowing for Blissey to run Heal Bell so that one must not look for another Heal Bell Pokemon on a stall team.

 

[Yung Dramps]

I must say regardless of where Slowbro falls, I love xMarth's throwing caution to the wind. Yes! Stop the elitists who think change can only come at a snail's pace! There is nothing inherently wrong moving up many ranks as many people suggest.

Holy shit, I couldn't agree more. When the time presents itself, I plan to make a post with just one Slowbro set to see how its match-ups VS top-tier threats compare to Alomomola. If xMarth's theory about Slowbro beating many of the same things is true, then I see no reason for it not to move up to the same level. Slow change are BS, tbh. This goes for both rises and drops. Who cares if it might become outdated in 2 weeks? At least it reflects its presence in the meta at that stage, and it can always be changed.