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UU Anti-Metagame
- Thread starter TombolaMan
- Start date
I've never liked Zangoose much because of the "do you want to lose to ghosts or faster pokemon" decision that comes with it, so half the time you use it you're screwed (and you're always screwed by Rotom or Mismagius anyway). I'd rather use Tauros or Kanga.
More on topic, SubCharge Lanturn is pro. USE IT.
More on topic, SubCharge Lanturn is pro. USE IT.
But Tauros and Kanga get stopped cold by Slowbro/Tangrowth/whatever you use to wall them. And they're usually Choiced. Zangoose plays completely differently and is much more destructive imo.
Not to mention that both Rotom and Mismagius are easily removed with Pursuit. If you don't use Shadow Claw, you're obviously gonna have a Pursuit user to deal with it. Spiritomb isn't much of an issue either because so many people rely on it to check like everything that it's eliminated by the time Zangoose comes out. Now with the opponents Ghost gone, what's gonna stop Zangoose from wrecking your team (especially stall)?
Not to mention that both Rotom and Mismagius are easily removed with Pursuit. If you don't use Shadow Claw, you're obviously gonna have a Pursuit user to deal with it. Spiritomb isn't much of an issue either because so many people rely on it to check like everything that it's eliminated by the time Zangoose comes out. Now with the opponents Ghost gone, what's gonna stop Zangoose from wrecking your team (especially stall)?
The biggest difference I see between Tauros/Kanga and Zangoose is that the former group are not all or nothing sweepers. They lack setup and have decent bulk, whereas Zangoose uses Swords Dance and is extremely frail. The former group can work as part of a core, since they have the ability to work their way past counters over the course of two or three switchins. Zangoose is definitely a win-condition poke - do what you need to do to eliminate it's counters, bring it in after a KO on something that doesn't OHKO it, and setup a sweep. Both definitely have their uses. Tough to really say one outclasses the other when they are so different. Kangaskahn vs. Tauros would be a much more interesting discussion, I think.
Oddly enough, the pokemon that's been cleaning up well for me well in this metagame is also a normal-type - Curse+Heal Bell Miltank. Although LO Special Venasaur is a problem, Miltank can easily set up on many defensive pokemon that will try to counter it. Defensive Hitmontop, Rhyperior, Milotic, Weezing, Rotom, Spiritomb, Registeel, Leafeon, and Donphan all lose if they switch in on Curse (unless they have Curse or Bulk Up). Most everything that can hurt him will hate a Body Slam paralysis (Hitmonlee just hates Body Slam itself), so there are few non-risky switchins. Also, it provides Heal Bell support. Overall reliable and an awesome win-condition poke. I suppose that theres a fine line between "good" and "anti metagame", but this set is at least the former.
Oddly enough, the pokemon that's been cleaning up well for me well in this metagame is also a normal-type - Curse+Heal Bell Miltank. Although LO Special Venasaur is a problem, Miltank can easily set up on many defensive pokemon that will try to counter it. Defensive Hitmontop, Rhyperior, Milotic, Weezing, Rotom, Spiritomb, Registeel, Leafeon, and Donphan all lose if they switch in on Curse (unless they have Curse or Bulk Up). Most everything that can hurt him will hate a Body Slam paralysis (Hitmonlee just hates Body Slam itself), so there are few non-risky switchins. Also, it provides Heal Bell support. Overall reliable and an awesome win-condition poke. I suppose that theres a fine line between "good" and "anti metagame", but this set is at least the former.
Bulky Milotic can hurt and it loves Body Slam paralysis. Other than that, I like it. It could make a very useful "softener" so to speak, weakening (or killing) Ghosts and physical walls before you bring out a more coverage-happy sweeper.
Substitute + Focus Punch + Waterfall + Encore Poliwrath completely destroys those cores. You can come in on Registeel on Stealth Rock, and unless it has Seismic Toss it cannot break your Sub. They usually switch in Venusaur, whom you can Encore as they Leaf Storm / Sludge Bomb. Then you can send in any resistor to the respective move. Focus Punch does a shit load to Registeel and Milotic. You have 5 other Pokemon to create synergy with Encore, which isn't difficult at all. I run a Grass/Fire/Water core of Venusaur, Arcanine, and Poliwrath. In general, his unique typing + Water Absorb + Encore makes him amazing. You can switch into Azumarill, too. It's immune to Waterfall / Aqua Jet, and it's faster than Azumarill (so you can Encore its water move or Substitute.
Just started trying this the other day on a new UU team. I like it so far. I didn't see it in the analysis page anymore so I had to make up my own set and spread, do you have a recommendation for what works best?
ive found lead drapion very good, its deceptively fast at bast 95 speed so it can fire off taunts faster than some uxie and other common leads, sd on the switch and attempt to sweep with crunch and earthquake
also a trickband pursuiter willowisp shadow sneak spiritomb is pretty much a dick to everything
also a trickband pursuiter willowisp shadow sneak spiritomb is pretty much a dick to everything
EVs:104 HP / 252 SpA / 28 SpD / 124 Spe
-EVs: 101HP+ Substitutes and 5 Subs, 124 Spe to outspeed Standard Milotic, max SpA for hittin' stuff
My Steelix would just get a free SR then Roar away all your boosts. Assuming you're running Curse/Milk/Heal Bell/Body Slam. Without the Hammer Arm, Steelix has a field day.
Thanks man. I might end up using a bit more SpD, but not outspeeding Milotic has been a huge pain. Thanks for that number.
About Zangoose: if you want to compare Zangoose to another poke compare it to Ursaring, not Tauros/Kangaskhan.
Both are set up sweepers... and Ursaring has the edge on pretty much everything except longevity (despite being a lot more bulkier... Toxic Orb takes care of that).
The only thing Zangoose has is Quick Attack (abuse it) or Flail (do not abuse it). Also makes the best normal Scarf revenger IMO (movepool, good speed and stronger than Kangaskhan. Tauros doesn't really need Scarf, and Zangoose is stronger anyway. Ursaring is too slow for that).
Both are set up sweepers... and Ursaring has the edge on pretty much everything except longevity (despite being a lot more bulkier... Toxic Orb takes care of that).
The only thing Zangoose has is Quick Attack (abuse it) or Flail (do not abuse it). Also makes the best normal Scarf revenger IMO (movepool, good speed and stronger than Kangaskhan. Tauros doesn't really need Scarf, and Zangoose is stronger anyway. Ursaring is too slow for that).
He talked about EVs for the SubCharge set, so obv it would use Substitute.
I tried out the poliwrath set posted by blasphemy1 and I have to say it was quite a surprise. Poli really does a great job at dealing with the milosteel core as well as luring in Venusaur and allowing me to switch in my fire type easily. Its also not a dead weight against offense if its behind a sub being reasonably bulky. Even so, I still think the best anti metagame poke hands down is that offensive Exeggutor. the max Spa and Spe set with Sleep Powder / Leaf Storm / Pyschic / Synthesis is great at combating against miloweez as well as other things. You cant imagine all the spiritomb switch ins that get sleep powered / leaf stormed for the ko the next turn. The two actually have decent synergy as well as long as you have something to handle moltres/swellow/ and scyther.