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UU Stats: May 2013
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Mienshao's probably the best alternative to Ambipom you could possibly rock with. Even Cinccino's better than Ambipom, in my opinion
Victini and Rotom-H are both not bad because they can't be burned by Sableye and can hit Togekiss hard. However, Victini doesn't like switching in on a Foul Play and neither of them like being paralyzed, but they're both good options.
If you have any short, simple questions about anything UU-related, post them in the Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer - UU Edition thread.
As mentioned already, Rotom-H is a good choice against, since it takes little damage from Foul Play and is immune to burn. Houndoom is another excellent choice for the same reason. Special attackers are generally Sableye's largest threat since they take little damage from Foul Play and aren't as strongly affected by burn.
Togekiss is a lot harder to deal with. Faster electric types (Zapdos in particular) are generally the best choice against it. Rhyperior is another choice, but it must be careful of Aura Sphere or Grass Knot.
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| 16 | Hitmontop | 10.99093% | 33628 | 10.137% | 27935 | 10.153% | | 20 | Gligar | 10.10608% | 29478 | 8.886% | 25612 | 9.308% | Guys said:
can it safely be said that blastoise is the best spinner in general if hitmontop's alias is shitmontop and cryo is weak to rocks and claydol is just no
i mean being #4 on the ladder must mean something though it's apparent that it's not exactly a great bulky water outside of spinning or anything
i mean being #4 on the ladder must mean something though it's apparent that it's not exactly a great bulky water outside of spinning or anything
Blastoise's biggest flaw is its lack or reliable recovery, he takes a decent amount of damage even from neutral hits which limits the number of times you can use him. The other problem with Blastoise is that he loses to Roserade, one of the premier spikers in UU.
Shitmontop on the other hand... If he's not running Stone Edge then Flying types walk all over it. Pokemon belonging to House Nido destroy him and resist everything he's capable of doing. Cofagrigus can block his spins and fears nothing from him barring Toxic. Hitmontop like Blastoise lacks reliable recovery as well. Its worse in Hitmontop's case though since its pretty much reliant on Intimidate in order to absorb hits. If a Pokemon is not under Intimidate or is a special attacker, its going to hit Shitmontop and its going to hurt.
Never tried Cryogonal. I've seen it a few times though, and it tends to fall pretty quickly.
I just find it so funny that I find Hitmontop a bigger threat as a spinner than I do blastoise. Hitmontop is just harder to switch into, and I've only seen 1 Blastoise run foresight. I'm still aware of it, but not enough to fear switching in to my spinblocker
I'm also glad to see Qwilfish so high in the 1850 usage. He's such a boss, and if you run explosion, you can psuedo-spinblock the entire game. He outspeeds Blastoise AND Hitmontop, along with all the other lesser-used spinners
For a couple weeks I've been running a team with the first Blastoise I've ever used. At one point I thought of it as "the perpetual disappointment" as I kept trying to switch it into take hits only to find it gets 2HKO with even just a little prior damage. Even when it did live it often failed to do anything meaningful in return. But really thinking about it I think a lot of the problem is that I was treating it as and comparing it to other bulky waters such as Slowbro and Suicune.
Blastoise gets worn down super easily which really limits how much it can do, but at full health the amount of things it can do is pretty respectable. It's bulk does allow it to take a hit from a lot of notable physical attackers and it can retaliate with status or phazing. There have been a lot of times when I needed Blastoise to get shit done and it did it. It took that V-Create or Close Combat and retaliated with Scald, it Roared out that +1 Kingdra, etc. It didn't do any of that very well but it did do it. Again this is not great when compared to even Milotic but when you compare it to other spinners it just has a much greater breadth of things it can accomplish. Top's priority and Intimidate support is nice but it gets beat/forced out by many more things than Blastoise does, such as Gligar or Golurk. Scald is also really useful for just tossing out at whatever. Nothing much likes to take Scald damage and a burn, allowing Blastoise to hit stuff like Nidos and Chandelure than can switch into most Top sets for free or nearly free. So Blastoise can actually fill a lot of roles for your team, including its coveted Rapid Spin.
Piloswine needs way more usage, it's good guys I swear. The Honchkrow usage is interesting, I've never properly understood how to play with him but I guess I should give it a shot.
Blastoise gets worn down super easily which really limits how much it can do, but at full health the amount of things it can do is pretty respectable. It's bulk does allow it to take a hit from a lot of notable physical attackers and it can retaliate with status or phazing. There have been a lot of times when I needed Blastoise to get shit done and it did it. It took that V-Create or Close Combat and retaliated with Scald, it Roared out that +1 Kingdra, etc. It didn't do any of that very well but it did do it. Again this is not great when compared to even Milotic but when you compare it to other spinners it just has a much greater breadth of things it can accomplish. Top's priority and Intimidate support is nice but it gets beat/forced out by many more things than Blastoise does, such as Gligar or Golurk. Scald is also really useful for just tossing out at whatever. Nothing much likes to take Scald damage and a burn, allowing Blastoise to hit stuff like Nidos and Chandelure than can switch into most Top sets for free or nearly free. So Blastoise can actually fill a lot of roles for your team, including its coveted Rapid Spin.
Piloswine needs way more usage, it's good guys I swear. The Honchkrow usage is interesting, I've never properly understood how to play with him but I guess I should give it a shot.
"Supposed" to beat? It doesn't matter what a pokemon is supposed to do, it matters what they do, and how well they do it. Sure, Gligar has his flaws, and I'm not saying he should be any higher on the usage list, I'm just saying he certainly shouldn't drop any lower. I use him often and he is quite hard to OHKO. And he doesn't lose to SD heracross. With Toxic and Roost he can stall him out -_-
phantom
Banned deucer.
Not really.
+4 252+ Atk Guts Heracross Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 243-286 (72.75 - 85.62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Heracross just sets up on gligar, while gligar can't do a thing back. It OHKOes at +6 btw.
0 Atk Gligar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heracross: 54-63 (17.94 - 20.93%) -- possible 7HKO
Yeah, it's not beating Swords Dance Heracross anytime soon.
Also:
It does when that Pokemon can't wall most things and is just setup bait the good majority of the time. Gligar is just like Dusclops (albeit a lot less awful). Yeah it's bulky as hell, but it can't do shit back and just becomes setup bait in the process. Especially when it's supposed to be a physical wall that doesn't even beat most physical attackers anyway. That's pretty bad and warrants low usage.
Ok you have a point there, and yes I'll admit he can't do shit to mienshao either, but in my experience, if gligar can't wall it, he can at least keep up the toxic until it's damaged enough to be OHKO'ed by something faster. He's a good stealth rock/toxic support, and while he can't completely change the game, he's helpful and bulky enough to remain at a half-decent amount of usage.
As an RU player. Please Dusclops drop please!
Sableye should be higher, I agree. I've been running a sort of custom SpD Snarl set and it works absolute fucking wonders.
Gligar is basically a pile of shit (sorry brobat). I don't give a shit how well it can tank hits, basically every boosting sweeper in the tier can set up on it. There are so many better choiced for Stealth Rockers. It shouldn't even be relevant in a tier with as many good Stealth rockers as UU has. (Swampert, Rhyperior, Crustle, Registeel (meh), Cobalion, Sui Aero, Loldol, Uxie, Azelf, Mew, Empoleon, etc....) Unlike all of these pokes, Gligar can only set up SR and wall and nothing else. In nearly all of the roles it's supposed to be able to fit as a niche, it is outclassed. (Ex. outclassed as a pivot by Cobalion, outclassed as a wall by stuff that can actually do shit). There are far better defensive walls in UU with far better Utility, most namely QWILFISH, who can't get set up, can lay two very important types of hazard, can taunt, spread paralysis, pseudo-spin block, deal decent damage with base 95 attack, has reliable recovery in Pain Split, has an awesome ability, has key resistances to Fire and Fighting, has actual variety in its set so you can't know as soon as you see it that it's running U-turn/Toxic/Roost/SR, etc.
^ That right there is the definition of Utility. Having SR and U-turn is not Utility.
In other news about things that are shit, I'd like to talk about some of the "Ambipom isn't as shit as you'd think" arguments.
Actually, I'm not going to talk about the arguments, I'm just going to show how some common leads fair against Ambipom. These stats are taken directly from the lead stats.
1) Mienshao - In a good player's hands, lead Mienshao will most likely be scarfed. Mienshao can easily survive a Fake Out and then either obliterate Ambi's face with a HJK or U-turn out on the switch, gaining most of the damage taken back and building momentum as well as maintaining the switch advantage. In the optimal situation that the Ambi user predicts the U-turn and stays in, the Mienshao user can go into any wall with Utility or set-up moves and begin to set up.
2) Bronzong - Ambipom can do basically nothing to Bronzong. Beat Up does around 40%, and Gyro Ball is easily an 2HKO. Presuming the opponent goes for Beat Up three times, Bronzong will have gotten SR up and Gyro Balled once. The Life Orb recoil will be enough to finish off Ambipom and make it a double down, giving the advantage to the Zong user.
3) Froslass - Admittedly helpless if Ambipom happens to be carrying Beat Up and is Jolly. You wouldn't lead with a Lass if you saw a Pom though, just like you wouldn't if you saw a Cincinno.
4) Crobat - Easily outspeeds. Inner Focus prevents Fake Out from being effective at all, and Return does no more than about 55% optimally. Band Crobat straight up OHKOs, and Stallbreaker wins as well.
5) Victini - Scarf Victini shrugs off a Fake Out, smashes face with V-Create. (see Mienshao)
6) Azelf - Azelf outspeeds, can either just blow up for the double down or get SR up if it chooses. Offensive variants can OHKO after the LO recoil from Fake Out with Psychic or Zen Headbutt around 90% of the time.
7) Sableye - lol
8) Ambipom - lol
9) Swampert - Can take hits for days, smash with an EQ, burn with a scald, or just set up rocks and go from there.
10) Darmanitan - Scarfed Darm takes a Fake Out and smashes face. (See Mienshao and Victini)
11) Mew - (See Azelf)
12) Rhyperior - Low Kick does 40%. With even a tiny bit of investment, Rhyperior can just set up SR and KO with EQ.
13) Chandelure - Scarfed Chandy easily OHKOs with Fire Blast.
14) Gligar - Sets up SR, does whatever it wants as Ambipom can do nothing to it. (Mienshao, on the other hand, can wreck its face off much better.) (note that being an ambipom counter does not in any way make Gligar good.)
15) Abomasnow - Protects on the Fake Out. Switches into something to piss on the Low Kick and goes from there.
I could keep going and going, but you get the idea. Ambipom, if anything, is supposed to be a good lead, but it doesn't win against more than one (froslass) of the Top 15 leads in UU. In other words, it's shit.
Gligar is basically a pile of shit (sorry brobat). I don't give a shit how well it can tank hits, basically every boosting sweeper in the tier can set up on it. There are so many better choiced for Stealth Rockers. It shouldn't even be relevant in a tier with as many good Stealth rockers as UU has. (Swampert, Rhyperior, Crustle, Registeel (meh), Cobalion, Sui Aero, Loldol, Uxie, Azelf, Mew, Empoleon, etc....) Unlike all of these pokes, Gligar can only set up SR and wall and nothing else. In nearly all of the roles it's supposed to be able to fit as a niche, it is outclassed. (Ex. outclassed as a pivot by Cobalion, outclassed as a wall by stuff that can actually do shit). There are far better defensive walls in UU with far better Utility, most namely QWILFISH, who can't get set up, can lay two very important types of hazard, can taunt, spread paralysis, pseudo-spin block, deal decent damage with base 95 attack, has reliable recovery in Pain Split, has an awesome ability, has key resistances to Fire and Fighting, has actual variety in its set so you can't know as soon as you see it that it's running U-turn/Toxic/Roost/SR, etc.
^ That right there is the definition of Utility. Having SR and U-turn is not Utility.
In other news about things that are shit, I'd like to talk about some of the "Ambipom isn't as shit as you'd think" arguments.
Actually, I'm not going to talk about the arguments, I'm just going to show how some common leads fair against Ambipom. These stats are taken directly from the lead stats.
1) Mienshao - In a good player's hands, lead Mienshao will most likely be scarfed. Mienshao can easily survive a Fake Out and then either obliterate Ambi's face with a HJK or U-turn out on the switch, gaining most of the damage taken back and building momentum as well as maintaining the switch advantage. In the optimal situation that the Ambi user predicts the U-turn and stays in, the Mienshao user can go into any wall with Utility or set-up moves and begin to set up.
2) Bronzong - Ambipom can do basically nothing to Bronzong. Beat Up does around 40%, and Gyro Ball is easily an 2HKO. Presuming the opponent goes for Beat Up three times, Bronzong will have gotten SR up and Gyro Balled once. The Life Orb recoil will be enough to finish off Ambipom and make it a double down, giving the advantage to the Zong user.
3) Froslass - Admittedly helpless if Ambipom happens to be carrying Beat Up and is Jolly. You wouldn't lead with a Lass if you saw a Pom though, just like you wouldn't if you saw a Cincinno.
4) Crobat - Easily outspeeds. Inner Focus prevents Fake Out from being effective at all, and Return does no more than about 55% optimally. Band Crobat straight up OHKOs, and Stallbreaker wins as well.
5) Victini - Scarf Victini shrugs off a Fake Out, smashes face with V-Create. (see Mienshao)
6) Azelf - Azelf outspeeds, can either just blow up for the double down or get SR up if it chooses. Offensive variants can OHKO after the LO recoil from Fake Out with Psychic or Zen Headbutt around 90% of the time.
7) Sableye - lol
8) Ambipom - lol
9) Swampert - Can take hits for days, smash with an EQ, burn with a scald, or just set up rocks and go from there.
10) Darmanitan - Scarfed Darm takes a Fake Out and smashes face. (See Mienshao and Victini)
11) Mew - (See Azelf)
12) Rhyperior - Low Kick does 40%. With even a tiny bit of investment, Rhyperior can just set up SR and KO with EQ.
13) Chandelure - Scarfed Chandy easily OHKOs with Fire Blast.
14) Gligar - Sets up SR, does whatever it wants as Ambipom can do nothing to it. (Mienshao, on the other hand, can wreck its face off much better.) (note that being an ambipom counter does not in any way make Gligar good.)
15) Abomasnow - Protects on the Fake Out. Switches into something to piss on the Low Kick and goes from there.
I could keep going and going, but you get the idea. Ambipom, if anything, is supposed to be a good lead, but it doesn't win against more than one (froslass) of the Top 15 leads in UU. In other words, it's shit.
| 1 | Heracross | 19.22718% | 60815 | 18.333% | 47393 | 17.225% |
| 2 | Chandelure | 17.72549% | 56655 | 17.079% | 46789 | 17.005% |
| 3 | Mienshao | 17.19577% | 49909 | 15.045% | 40991 | 14.898% |
| 4 | Blastoise | 16.40233% | 52260 | 15.754% | 44246 | 16.081% |
| 5 | Roserade | 14.46535% | 45076 | 13.588% | 36609 | 13.305% |
Standard fare, but seeing Blastoise in the top 5 is hilarious just because he's a decent spinner. HeraBOSS is still the king of UU. Looks like a GenVI bump to OU is in order.
| 14 | Crobat | 11.52406% | 38297 | 11.545% | 32995 | 11.992% |
| 21 | Cofagrigus | 9.35451% | 29392 | 8.860% | 24764 | 9.000% |
Hey, my defensive core is doing good. Hopefully nothing crazy goes on in the transition to X/Y.
| 2 | Chandelure | 17.72549% | 56655 | 17.079% | 46789 | 17.005% |
| 3 | Mienshao | 17.19577% | 49909 | 15.045% | 40991 | 14.898% |
| 4 | Blastoise | 16.40233% | 52260 | 15.754% | 44246 | 16.081% |
| 5 | Roserade | 14.46535% | 45076 | 13.588% | 36609 | 13.305% |
Standard fare, but seeing Blastoise in the top 5 is hilarious just because he's a decent spinner. HeraBOSS is still the king of UU. Looks like a GenVI bump to OU is in order.
| 14 | Crobat | 11.52406% | 38297 | 11.545% | 32995 | 11.992% |
| 21 | Cofagrigus | 9.35451% | 29392 | 8.860% | 24764 | 9.000% |
Hey, my defensive core is doing good. Hopefully nothing crazy goes on in the transition to X/Y.
Yeah, Ambipom is a shitty lead, but honestly you shouldn't be leading with it because of what you just said. That's not an argument for not using Ambipom. Who cares if it's "supposed to be a good lead"? It's not, people are just wrong, but it does do things well. Ambipom actually does pretty well in the mid-game mainly against frail offensive teams, because it's faster even than most of the Pokemon on these teams, and has a potent Fake Out. It can even pseudo-sweep said teams by coming in repeatedly and using Fake Out until you're dead. Unfortunately UU is pretty bulky at the moment, and Ambipom doesn't do too well against defensive or even bulky offensive teams. So choosing Ambipom for your team is a big risk vs. reward choice, with a risk too high and a reward too low.
| 16 | Hitmontop | 10.99093% | 33628 | 10.137% | 27935 | 10.153% |
| 24 | Togekiss | 8.75110% | 30453 | 9.180% | 24594 | 8.938% |
| 36 | Ambipom | 7.21106% | 27677 | 8.343% | 24524 | 8.913% |
| 42 | Claydol | 5.74551% | 19588 | 5.905% | 16906 | 6.144% |
| 49 | Registeel | 4.81978% | 17169 | 5.176% | 15281 | 5.554% |
| 58 | Dusclops | 3.45392% | 13045 | 3.932% | 11182 | 4.064% |
stop using these pieces of shit, especially Shitmontop
| 32 | Weavile | 7.42762% | 25507 | 7.689% | 20570 | 7.476% |
| 34 | Suicune | 7.31592% | 22101 | 6.662% | 18466 | 6.711% |
| 40 | Machamp | 6.43546% | 22551 | 6.798% | 18631 | 6.771% |
| 41 | Xatu | 5.93452% | 19257 | 5.805% | 15819 | 5.749% |
| 51 | Tornadus | 4.58040% | 13488 | 4.066% | 11267 | 4.095% |
| 52 | Bisharp | 4.48117% | 16314 | 4.918% | 13360 | 4.856% |
| 56 | Krookodile | 3.82395% | 13878 | 4.183% | 11147 | 4.051% |
| 64 | Golurk | 1.96169% | 5562 | 1.677% | 4812 | 1.749% |
| 70 | Tangrowth | 1.50238% | 4926 | 1.485% | 4050 | 1.472% |
| 71 | Slowking | 1.49327% | 4908 | 1.480% | 4008 | 1.457% |
Needs.Moar.Usage
| 24 | Togekiss | 8.75110% | 30453 | 9.180% | 24594 | 8.938% |
| 36 | Ambipom | 7.21106% | 27677 | 8.343% | 24524 | 8.913% |
| 42 | Claydol | 5.74551% | 19588 | 5.905% | 16906 | 6.144% |
| 49 | Registeel | 4.81978% | 17169 | 5.176% | 15281 | 5.554% |
| 58 | Dusclops | 3.45392% | 13045 | 3.932% | 11182 | 4.064% |
stop using these pieces of shit, especially Shitmontop
| 32 | Weavile | 7.42762% | 25507 | 7.689% | 20570 | 7.476% |
| 34 | Suicune | 7.31592% | 22101 | 6.662% | 18466 | 6.711% |
| 40 | Machamp | 6.43546% | 22551 | 6.798% | 18631 | 6.771% |
| 41 | Xatu | 5.93452% | 19257 | 5.805% | 15819 | 5.749% |
| 51 | Tornadus | 4.58040% | 13488 | 4.066% | 11267 | 4.095% |
| 52 | Bisharp | 4.48117% | 16314 | 4.918% | 13360 | 4.856% |
| 56 | Krookodile | 3.82395% | 13878 | 4.183% | 11147 | 4.051% |
| 64 | Golurk | 1.96169% | 5562 | 1.677% | 4812 | 1.749% |
| 70 | Tangrowth | 1.50238% | 4926 | 1.485% | 4050 | 1.472% |
| 71 | Slowking | 1.49327% | 4908 | 1.480% | 4008 | 1.457% |
Needs.Moar.Usage
What's wrong with Togekiss? It's S-Rank for a (numerous) reason(s).
Krookodile on the other hand I feel doesn't have much place in UU. Its speed doesn't make up for its bad bulk and defensive typing, and its attacks aren't nearly as strong as Heracross to combo as well with its good Attack and Moxie.
Krookodile on the other hand I feel doesn't have much place in UU. Its speed doesn't make up for its bad bulk and defensive typing, and its attacks aren't nearly as strong as Heracross to combo as well with its good Attack and Moxie.
To be honest I really like using Krookodile in UU. He faces really stiff competition from Heracross but he still does a pretty good cleaning job with the Scarf Moxie set, and his Speed is reasonable enough with a Scarf to be a pretty solid revenge killer. EQ+Crunch is very good coverage, and Krookodile is also an excellent user of Pursuit since he can scare away Victini and Azelf.
So yeah, Krookodile faces a large amount of competition from Heracross, I get that, but I've still found him to be quite solid whenever I used him. I'm not sure if he should be used more, but he's still a pretty good Pokemon in this meta imo.
EDIT: Also agreeing Togekiss deserves its usage. Its parahax is ridiculously annoying, and T-Wave+Air Slash makes Togekiss a bitch to face and yeah. Togekiss has only one legitimate counter in SpD Zapdos, and even that can be properly flinchhaxed to death. Togekiss is also insanely bulky, hell even the strongest attacks are not even 2HKOing it, and it can just sweep everything with its moves. NP+Heal Bell also makes Stall teams cringe at it.
So yeah, Krookodile faces a large amount of competition from Heracross, I get that, but I've still found him to be quite solid whenever I used him. I'm not sure if he should be used more, but he's still a pretty good Pokemon in this meta imo.
EDIT: Also agreeing Togekiss deserves its usage. Its parahax is ridiculously annoying, and T-Wave+Air Slash makes Togekiss a bitch to face and yeah. Togekiss has only one legitimate counter in SpD Zapdos, and even that can be properly flinchhaxed to death. Togekiss is also insanely bulky, hell even the strongest attacks are not even 2HKOing it, and it can just sweep everything with its moves. NP+Heal Bell also makes Stall teams cringe at it.
TPO3
Never practice; Always perform.
I completely agree with the Togekiss statements that PunchShroom and ScraftyisBeast are making making here. Togekiss is S-Rank because it's a beast, and it's not getting used nearly enough, IMO.
As for Krookodile, I think it has an effective niche in UU. Its attacks might not be as strong as Hera's, but I think it functions a lot differently. Krookodile has STAB Pursuit, which Heracross wishes it had. Scarf Krookodile can effectively trap and revenge kill Chandelure (or switch into Shadow Ball if you're ballsy) while Heracross fails to OHKO even if it switches out. Krookodile also boasts an immunity to Electric, STAB Earthquake, as well as higher speed than Heracross, allowing it to revenge ko a wider variety of targets that Heracross misses out on (ie: Nidoking, Heat Rotom, Adamant Flygon, and Venomoth.) I do agree that it faces stiff competition on most teams, but I wouldn't say that it doesn't have any place. It has a couple of pretty valuable traits that keep it used.
As for Krookodile, I think it has an effective niche in UU. Its attacks might not be as strong as Hera's, but I think it functions a lot differently. Krookodile has STAB Pursuit, which Heracross wishes it had. Scarf Krookodile can effectively trap and revenge kill Chandelure (or switch into Shadow Ball if you're ballsy) while Heracross fails to OHKO even if it switches out. Krookodile also boasts an immunity to Electric, STAB Earthquake, as well as higher speed than Heracross, allowing it to revenge ko a wider variety of targets that Heracross misses out on (ie: Nidoking, Heat Rotom, Adamant Flygon, and Venomoth.) I do agree that it faces stiff competition on most teams, but I wouldn't say that it doesn't have any place. It has a couple of pretty valuable traits that keep it used.
You could also use Hera for something else on your team if you use Krooko as your scarfer. oyo
I'm curious as to whyHitmontop is considered so bad, though. I haven't seen it a terrible lot, and I understand why Claydol and Cryogonal suck, but why does the ugliest Hitmon not pull its weight?
I'm curious as to why
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