UU Take the Offensive

[Yakatopa]

Hey guys, I'm Yakatopa and I'm new to competitive pokemon. I've been fooling around with different teams in different tiers but I've really found myself enjoying playing around in UU. I've laddered up to about 1500 with this team, but like I said, I really don't know that much about pokemon and I'm having a hard time improving my teams once I get to a certain point. I might make edits to a team like this that I think make my team more potent, but they just end up making it weaker in a certain area. For instance I've never really found a rapid spinner that makes this team feel better to me. I'm sure that there are spinners, hazard layers, and other role players that could make a huge impact on my team, but I just don't know enough to constructively tinker with my team. Right now, I feel that I weakness with my team is the weaknesses to stealth rock and the lack of ways for effectively dealing with hazards. I'll give you guys the rundown and hopefully you can give me some good suggestions.

Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock
Nidoking may seem like a strange lead, but I find that the surprise factor on Nidoking often gets me way out in front in a game. When people see a Nidoking lead they expect a hazard off the bat and end up taunting me, or trying to lay down hazards of their own. There's nothing better than having an Aerodactyl taunt you and then obliging it with an ice beam. Nidoking will OHKO almost any lead that it is super effective against (Which given it's coverage is a lot), and can 2HKO just about everything except for special walls. The surprise factor is really what makes Nidoking a great lead. Having hazards helps out my team a good deal, so I run stealth rock, but a lot of the time I'm focusing on killing their lead moreso than getting rocks down. Later in the game I can usually sneak the King in and get rocks down.

Weavile (F) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Night Slash
- Low Kick
- Swords Dance

Weavile is my setup sweeper/revenge killer. He's fragile, but he forces switches on psychic types, allowing a for a quick swords dance and then (hopefully) a Weavile rampage. Because of his lackluster defenses, I never bring in Weavile except for when another of my pokes faints, but his speed makes him scary to almost anything he comes in on and because of this and his priority stab ice shard he makes a pretty good revenge killer as well.

Flygon @ Choice Band
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- U-turn
- Fire Punch

Flygon is my wallbreaker. There isn't much that can take his choice band outrage, it even gives steel types pause. Late game, once I've dealt with Flygon's threats he can go on a rampage and just take over the game. U-turn can be used to scout, and Earthquake and Fire Punch give him great coverage, and help him take out the steel and ice types which give him trouble. While Flygon is fast and powerful. He almost always dies when I lock in an outrage, take out one poke, and then hit another poke hard and take an ice beam to the face. I need to learn to manage his outrage better so this is less of a problem, but Flygon always goes out with a bang, his speed basically ensuring that he gets off an extremely powerful move before he goes down.

Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Trait: Mummy
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Calm Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Ball
- Haze
- Pain Split

Cofagrigus is my spin-blocker/wall. Cofagrigus' defenses are really excellent, and he's really useful on this team. Cofagrigus provides the ultimate counter to fighting types that would otherwise give my team a lot of trouble. I usually switch cofagrigus in on a fighting attack, and opponents, often underestimating Cofagrigus' bulk will try to hit it, and end up with burn to show for it. Cofagrigus is extremely hard to take down once he's burned a victim. He can't be set up on thanks to haze, and pain split keeps him hovering around 30-40% health for what seems like forever.

Milotic @ Leftovers
Trait: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 Def / 248 HP / 8 Spd
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic
- Dragon Tail

Milotic is a tank. Milotic can be a real pain in the ass thanks to her ability to burn, toxic, phase, and to tank ridiculous amounts of damage without much worry thanks to recover. Milotic is kind of the team member that I've been the least satisfied with, and have considered replacing her with Alomomola, who I've had success with in RU. Alomomola adds incredible wish support, but has the drawback of not having phasing, allowing opponents to happily set up on her. All in all, I think Milotic may be a better option thanks to access to instant recovery and phasing. After all the thing that my team fears most is someone faster than my sweepers setting up on it. Having both Milotic and Cofagrigus as walls and phasers ensures that other teams have a hard time setting up on mine.

Roserade @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk
- Sleep Powder
- Leaf Storm
- Sludge Bomb
- Extrasensory

I added Roserade to my team (thanks to GenXXZ for the suggestion) to help deal with bulky water types, and for a special attacker with decent coverage to replace Houndoom. While Roserade perhaps doesn't have the raw power that Houndoom can achieve with the Nasty Plot set I had, Roserade makes my team strong against fighting where it was weak before, and having the option to put threats to sleep just makes Roserade that much more useful to my team.

The team is a work in progress, and anything you have to offer is greatly appreciated and I'd love to give it a go!

Former team members:

Houndoom @ Life Orb
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Dark Pulse

 

[GenXXZ]

Hey there! This is a cool looking team, and I'm glad you're giving the UU tier a shot. It's a pretty fantastic metagame! This team is pretty solidly built; all of the sets look really good and the synergy, buy and large, looks great. Two things I'd like to bring up though.

Houndoom. Houndoom can be a pretty effective mixed Pokemon, but the set you're running now is a bit lackluster due to Houndoom's below-average speed for a sweeper. Really, the reason Houndoom exists in this tier is to counter Chandelure, which you could easily do with Weavile as it is. I think you should look into getting yourself a replacement. The replacement a recommend is Offensive Roserade. Synergy wise, this team seems to lack any real weapons against bulky waters such as Blastoise, Swampert, and opposing Milotic. Roserade will help tie your offensive coverage together. This is a pretty offensive team after all.

And the last thing; Hazards. For a team as offensive as this, it's a real shame that there are no hazards on it, specifically Stealth Rock. The anti-lead approach for Nidoking is really good, but I recommend you replace Focus Blast for Stealth Rock, or any one of the coverage moves really. Offensive teams like this will force a lot of switches and Stealth Rock will help you take down key threats when they do.


But really, that's it. Extremely well built team for the first time, and I wish you good luck.

 

[Yakatopa]

Thanks so much for your response. I was having trouble with pokemon like Blastoise. Having hazards will definitely help wear down the other team too, I had never thought about it like that. I've been trying out Roserade and she really helps by forcing switches on bulky water types or just immediately KOing them with leaf storm. I added stealth rock on Nidoking, and it's great, and prevents teams from just switching at a whim to counter my offensive typing. I still use him as an anti-lead, but being able to come in and set up stealth rock just adds to his utility, which he didn't really have before, and I don't really miss focus blast too much. Thanks so much for your help!

 

[Yakatopa]

I just had my first loss with the new improved team at about 1660 after winning 12 straight!

 

[Psychotic]

Hi Yakatopa, I like the team a lot, but I think a few changes could be made to push the team from a good one into a great one.

Moveset Suggestions:
First of all, I can see that the win condition of this team is to get Stealth Rock up, and break things down until Weavile can get in and safely set up for a sweep. I think this strategy works a lot better if you can keep Stealth Rock off your own side of the field for as long as possible, but the two walls on the team are slowing you down. Both Milotic and Cofagrigus give plentiful opportunities for hazards to be set up all over you, since they can't dish out much damage, and don't punish the other player for setting up these hazards. That is why I think you should exchange these two sets for more offensive options, that hit hard and keep control of the game in your hands. I will get to Milotic later, but the first change I recommend is exchanging your current Cofagrigus set for a Nasty Plot variant. This thing puts enormous pressure on opponents, and gives you an alternate endgame sweeper, which your team really appreciates. If your Weavile is gone, you will struggle in cleaning up the opponents team, but this Cofagrigus set will take a ton of pressure off of Weavile, and put pressure on the opponent. It still acts great as a fighting type check, but it doesn't suck away precious momentum from your team every time in comes in.

Teammate Suggestions:
Milotic gives the opponent plentiful opportunities to set up entry hazards, and dangerous sweepers like Raikou can sweep your team if it gets in for free against Milo. Offense is all about keeping pressure on the opponent, and Milotic completely fails to do that. Therefore, the one team change I will suggest is exchanging Milotic for Offensive Calm Mind Suicune. Suicune still checks the same Fire and Ground types that Milotic does, but it also hits hard, something that Milotic fails to do. This set is very unconventional and unexpected, meaning many players will make mistakes against it, expecting a more defensive version. This set helps break down walls, and makes it much easier for Weavile or Cofag to sweep.

Suggested Changes:

Hide

Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Trait: Mummy
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Quiet Nature
IVs: 30 Def / 30 SAtk / 30 SDef / 2 Spd / 2 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Trick Room
- Hidden Power [Fighting]

Suicune @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Calm Mind

I think all the other movesets look great, I hope this rate helps!

 

[Yakatopa]

I find that this overall gives my team a pretty one dimensional feel. All of my pokemon are trying to sweep and I can't do much against sweepers that the other teams setup. I preferred the utility of my team without the changes you suggested. Maybe I'll keep Suicune, but I really like Cofagrigus defensively, he's got a lot of tricks up his sleeve and stops fighting types in their tracks. Raikou is still a huge problem though...

 

[Aecor]

Hi.

First off, why do you have SR on Nidoking? It isn't fast/bulky enough to do the job correctly, even with HP investment. Secondly, you have 3 offense pokes and 3 defensive pokes. I suggest that if you have 2 defensive pokes, you should have a spinner since defensive pokes will lose momentum. If you don't like spinners, keep your team offensive based (Make your Cofag Nasty Room) and add a CroCune to your team. Having a team half stall and half offense does your team no good. Stick with one playstyle--even balanced teams are partially based.

And who gives two sheets if it makes the team one-dimensional? That's the point. In OU, do you ever see serious triple weather teams? No, because it has too many dimensions.

That is all.

 

[GenXXZ]

Hi.

First off, why do you have SR on Nidoking? It isn't fast/bulky enough to do the job correctly, even with HP investment. Secondly, you have 3 offense pokes and 3 defensive pokes. I suggest that if you have 2 defensive pokes, you should have a spinner since defensive pokes will lose momentum. If you don't like spinners, keep your team offensive based (Make your Cofag Nasty Room) and add a CroCune to your team. Having a team half stall and half offense does your team no good. Stick with one playstyle--even balanced teams are partially based.

And who gives two sheets if it makes the team one-dimensional? That's the point. In OU, do you ever see serious triple weather teams? No, because it has too many dimensions.

That is all.

I don't usually counteract other people's rates, however, I have to mention a few things with this one.

1: Nidoking is an Anti-Lead. The only thing that can really stop Nidoking from setting up rocks is Taunt, and any common Taunt lead is pretty much dead anyways because Nidoking, it's... It's an Anti-Lead. The point really isn't to set up rocks, it's to kill. The opposing. Lead. Besides, there isn't really any fast UU leads around anymore since Froslass got the suspect test except for Ambipom and really.... Ambipom is just terrible right now.

2: A spinner on a team where not a single member is weak to Stealth Rocks? Are you aware how much momentum that would suck up, and for what? I guess there is Weavile but.... It's pretty much dead anyways if it gets hit by a move, Stealth Rocks or not.

3: The goal of every team in the world is to get the opposing Pokemon's HP to zero. Triple Weather teams do not work in OU because the time it takes to set up the 3 weathers is not worth the damage output that said weathers will create. Having a mixed offensive/defensive pressure doesn't do anything to cloud the ultimate goal of the battle except change the way that it's done. Both Milotic and Cofagrigus are fully capable of eliminating threats despite them being defensive Pokemon. Also, what is this "third" defensive Poke that you speak of? Is it Roserade? That's an offensive Roserade set. Nidoking? Look at the EVs. ... Flygon? Oh geez.

 

[PTJon7]

In general Nidoqueen is just better than Nidoking, it's bulk goes a long way and it actually out damages Nidoking since it has a Modest nature. This set gives optimal coverage and bulk:

Nidoqueen @ Life Orb
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 100 HP / 252 SAtk / 156 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Stealth Rock

I really encourage you to try Psycho's recommended changes. Milotic especially is exceedingly average, and whats the point of having 2 physical walls in the first place...

 

[Yakatopa]

Wow guys thanks for all the comments I'll definitely give Nidoqueen a try, but the reason I have Nidoking is because he hits harder and is faster, which is important, having him as an anti-lead, the less pokemon that can get off a potentially deadly earthquake on me the better. Certainly Nidoqueen makes it so that maybe I survive that earthquake, but I have a hard time sacrificing more of Nidoking's already mediocre speed. The reason I have my 2 defensive pokemon (I don't know where the suggestion that I have 3 came from) is to keep other sweepers from setting up.

Certainly I have an offensive team, but I can't do much in response to a pokemon that's faster than me unless I can take a hit from it and do something to it. This is why the defensive cofagrigus set is something that I'm holding onto. With NP/TR cofagrigus he's not a response to anything, he's more asking a question of the opponent (namely can you handle this scary ghost guy before he becomes unstoppable). While this is great, my team is pretty weak to Mienshao if I can't burn it consistently, and that's basically the function of cofagrigus. If that seems like too much of a niche role for what is overall a very useful pokemon, that's fair, but I'm just responding to what I see as threats to my team.

In response to Aecor's comment I don't think my walls lose me momentum at all, what they do, to me, is suck momentum from the other team. I switch into milotic when I think I'm going to get burned because marvel scale makes a burned milotic into a really wonderful thing (120 defense and sp d with 95 hp gives suicune a run). The other team tries to setup on me, and then I dragon tail them away. Milotic is weak to substitute, so if someone switches into a sub user I need to find something to deal with it right away, but usually my team is equipped to do that. I do see how milotic is not that good, but I don't see other bulky water types that offer what I need. Blastoise might be "better" he has access to phasing moves and rapid spin, but my team just isn't that worried about hazards, and blastoises lack of recovery makes it hard to justify using him, essentially a less tanky milotic with access to rapid spin. My team right now just isn't lacking threats as people seem to think. Flygon outspeeds most of the metagame, and Weavile outspeeds just about everything, even Roserade with this set is pretty damn fast. Also, I'd like to point out that Milotic is much more of a special than a physical wall, I just invested in her defense so that it wouldn't be quite so lacking when Milotic isn't statused. Maybe Suicune is a better option, but the calm mind set that I tried didn't help my team as much as milotic consistently does.

That being said, getting up around 1700 I started encountering a Raikou on every team, and my team doesn't deal with him that well. Roserade is the best answer, if I see a Raikou I basically have to sleep powder it but him being a faster sub user (sometimes) makes this a tricky proposition. Also, Roserade gets 2HKO and can't OHKO (maybe not even consistently 2HKO) in return. The changes that psycho suggested didn't really help me deal with raikou because suicune is going down to raikou, calm mind or not, and cofagrigus can't set up in time to answer to raikou.

tldr: I did try the suicune and cofagrigus sets and I didn't really like them, they give my team extra power where what it needs is answers to the questions my opponent might pose to it. The question that I don't have an answer to now is Raikou, obviously I'm going to need to change something and I don't mean to be clinging to my team members, but I didn't feel that suicune and cofagrigus changes helped my team very much.

 

[Yakatopa]

When I get home from work I'm going to try out Swampert instead of Milotic. He gives me a wall that crushes Raikou, and that also can phaze. He doesn't have recovery, but he has very strong attack, and with waterfall and earthquake hitting even with an unbolstered 110 attack there aren't many things that really want to switch into it. I would also run Roar and Toxic or Stealth Rock, perhaps taking stealth rock off of nidoking if I choose to go that route on Swampert. Thoughts about this?

 

[Aecor]

I don't usually counteract other people's rates, however, I have to mention a few things with this one.

1: Nidoking is an Anti-Lead. The only thing that can really stop Nidoking from setting up rocks is Taunt, and any common Taunt lead is pretty much dead anyways because Nidoking, it's... It's an Anti-Lead. The point really isn't to set up rocks, it's to kill. The opposing. Lead. Besides, there isn't really any fast UU leads around anymore since Froslass got the suspect test except for Ambipom and really.... Ambipom is just terrible right now.

2: A spinner on a team where not a single member is weak to Stealth Rocks? Are you aware how much momentum that would suck up, and for what? I guess there is Weavile but.... It's pretty much dead anyways if it gets hit by a move, Stealth Rocks or not.

3: The goal of every team in the world is to get the opposing Pokemon's HP to zero. Triple Weather teams do not work in OU because the time it takes to set up the 3 weathers is not worth the damage output that said weathers will create. Having a mixed offensive/defensive pressure doesn't do anything to cloud the ultimate goal of the battle except change the way that it's done. Both Milotic and Cofagrigus are fully capable of eliminating threats despite them being defensive Pokemon. Also, what is this "third" defensive Poke that you speak of? Is it Roserade? That's an offensive Roserade set. Nidoking? Look at the EVs. ... Flygon? Oh geez.

Hi. A GOOD anti-lead would be mental herb Mew or Qwilfish. If you want to KILL things why not go with an all out attacking LO set? Why have SR is the main goal is to NOT set up SRs? It's like saying Suicine Azelf from Gen IV was primary used to scout. Sir, Azelf was used to set up rocks. If you're getting rocks up, mineaswell go with that Nidoqueen breh.

Hi. A spinner is useful for his UU team in particular because he has TWO pokes, potentially THREE pokes that kill momentum. Nidoking with SR is a momentum killer. I placed it as a wall because Nidoking is the most one-dimensional Poke in the UU meta. If you invest in bulk, use Queen. If you want power, go for an all out attacking set. Don't try to do 2 jobs if you can barely do one. Roserade is also a very good special pivot in this meta, as it resist volt switch and takes neutral special hits like a champ.

Hi. You didn't understand the point me and Psych were trying to make. We BOTH agreed that his team has no focus. You can't throw in 5 heavy hitters and a rapid spinner on a team--it just does not mix. Likewise, triple weather has NO synergy whatsoever. What the hell is the point of using 4 heavy hitters than 2 walls that do NOTHING for the team? Milotic is the saddest excuse for a defensive water type, and defense Cofag is a slightly more useful Dusclops.

I don't give two sheets if you disagree with my wording, advice, or anything else. If you honestly think the team is better off without:
Either a spinner to compliment his walls
OR CroCune + Nasty Room Cofag
then you obviously have not played the meta long enough.

 

[Yakatopa]

I'll keep fooling around with it. I like the CroCune set a lot better than the calm mind coverage set, but I just don't like Nasty Room Cofag that much, I almost never get him set up, and when I do he hits pretty hard, but still doesn't OHKO as much as I'd like and trick room is pretty easy to stall out (umbreon protect/wish/protects and it's basically over). Also Trick Room hurts my team, as most of it is at least above average speed roserade, flygon, weavile are outsped by most things in trick room and nidoking and milotic are not exactly slow either (and suicune is faster than milotic). If Cofag goes down while trick room is up (and he basically has to at least take one hit to set it up leaving him at anywhere from 80-50% most of the time) then my team is in trouble.

 

[GenXXZ]

I think the answer to your problem lies with Misamagius. Mismagius is a pretty good offensive spinblocker and it can also run a powerful Nasty Plot set without having to rely on Trick Room, a move that could seriously hurt your team. In any other case, OTR Cofag would certainly be better, but for this team I think Mismagius will help you out. It's special bulk is actually pretty decent too, so you won't be losing too much defensively.

I think that given the evidence PTJon7 has given, Nidoqueen would be a better choice than Nidoking. I still think that you should pretty much keep the same set though; perhaps run 252 HP EVs instead of speed however. Keeping offensive presence while still having Stealth Rocks in my opinion works, and I don't think it'll suck up that much momentum because if you lead with it, it's probably going to die anyways. There isn't a whole lot of need to keep Nidoqueen around during the mid/late game.

Aecor, I apologize for going against your rate in the manner I did. It definitely wasn't the right thing to do and I find the advice that you give to be genuine and well thought out. Our views on team building seem to differ, however, I won't try and get in your way again.

That's all I have to say good now. Good luck with your future endeavors with this team, Yakatopa.

 

[Thetwiggy13]

Hey, I'd like to say that this is a nice offensive team you have here. I just have one small tweak to make, and it's not a Pokemon or an EV spread. Since you already have multiple resistances/immunities (Poison and Ghost) to fighting-type attacks, I don't see a large point of Extrasensory on Roserade. In fact, to keep its longevity going I prefer abusing Natural Cure and running Rest on Roserade. It's just a suggestion, but the ability to put a Pokemon to sleep, hit hard, and then go to sleep yourself usually allows you to hit and run while using a Full Restore in the process. Also, Weavile is your only main way (outside of Cofagrigus or Milotic) of dealing with Choice Scarf Flygon, which can KO your banded set, Nidoking, Roserade, and Weavile with SR damage on the switch. Be careful with Flygon, as even though it doesn't hit extremely hard, it's enough to dent your team and then leave--just to come back and dent it again. Hope I helped, this is a nice offensive team! :D Good luck.