Tournament UUbersPL Format Discussion

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Imperial

Imperial

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This thread is expected to be open until manager signups. The intent of this thread is to determine the format of the first UbersUUPL. We are looking for one experienced Team Tour Host to assist with the running of UbersUUPL, so feel free to reach out. Manager signups will go up November 18th. The tournament format is expected to be 6x6.

The first topic is figuring out the last two slots. Currently there are 4/6 set slots for UbersUUPL:
  • SV Ubers UU 1
  • SV Ubers UU 2
  • SV Ubers UU 3
  • ND Ubers UU
  • (Undecided)
  • (Undecided)
None of these slots are open to be changed, meaning yes, National Dex Ubers UU is locked in to appear in this tour and we will have a minimum of 3 SV slots.

This comes to deciding what the last slots could be, which has come down to SS Ubers UU, Suspect Slots of some kind (i.e teraless/arcless Ubers UU), Ubers RU, SV4 (fourth sv slot) or bo3 (best of three).
  • SV4 is a straightforward choice, but quite weird in a 6 slot locked setting alongside a concern of lower quality games that may happen in this slot, not to mention the other two slots could potentially be better used on other, less explored tiers.
  • SS Ubers UU is a retroactive application of the concept of SV Ubers UU on the SS Ubers usage stats. It is relatively unexplored and has a small playerbase, and could be interesting to try an oldgens Ubers UU metagame in an actual tour for the first time, but it might not make sense as SV Ubers UU is the first generation of Ubers UU. To note, SS Ubers UU is unique in the lack of Arceus in the tier, as well as lack of any major mechanic.
  • Bo3, which while being the hype series of the week and would have extra games of SV being played, there’s also the potential for a burden to be put on teams as a whole with even more prep having to be dedicated to a single slot that might not be an enjoyable experience building compared to watching.
  • Suspect Slots allow for banning or unbanning parts of the metagame, we can test to see whether it is healthier or unhealthier for the metagame and progress tiering as a whole. It still needs to be decided what would specifically be changed, and common ideas suggested have been tera-banned, arceus banned, or other suggestions we are open to.
  • Ubers RU is the extension of the Ubers UU tiering system, and has a small discord following and recently held their first tour, however they have no smogon recognition. This would also change the nature of the tour from focusing on "Ubers UU" to "The Ubers UU tiering system", which is different from the original intention of the premier league organizers.
Overall, there are pros and cons to each of the 5 options, so we’d like to know which the community prefers the most to be included in UbersUUPL. We would prefer if you post using the ranked pairs method to show your preferences, with explantations of those preferences below. This will make it much easier for those reading your post to understand it, Thank you.
 
Bo3 should be way above SV4. If you're going to make an SV4, it should be Bo3 and be the highlight of the week. I don't think it should be either (tbh you could drop an SV for Bo3 if there's a lot of motivation for that much SV/a Bo3 slot.

"no smogon recognition. This would also change the nature of the tour from focusing on "Ubers UU" to "The Ubers UU tiering system", which is different from the original intention of the premier league organizers"
This is a bonkers perspective and I don't understand it. Ubers RU is as much a part of Ubers UU as NatDex or previous gens Ubers UU. It should be given just as much consideration if there's interest and enough folks to start.


edit: what is manager self-buy

edit: ranked pairs from my opinion (i intend to sign up to manage, fwiw) ru > ss > bo3 > suspect > sv4
 
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I don't think we should be doing any suspect slots for the first edition of UUbersPL tbh, it's better to explore the other formats available to us here. I also don't think we need an SV4 slot at all.

Of the remaining options, I would prefer Ubers RU and SS Ubers UU, as I think those metas are fairly stable and could use more exploration. While there aren't a ton of people who play them, I think it's easy for people to get into them, especially when you only really need 1 starter per team for those. Doing a Bo3 is also probably ok. That's my thoughts
 
I would strongly advocate for Ubers RU>SS Ubers UU>Bo3>Suspects>SV4

Ubers RU should (and I think does) come as naturally to ubers uu as any other extension of the tier, and it is up to us and our community to see the ubers uu tiering system grow into whatever it can be. While undeveloped comapred to many other tiers, it's more developed than SS ubers UU or the suspects. I'd be really excited for ubers RU and might actually get into playing it if it was available.

SS Ubers UU is cool and deserves a spotlight, and could also give a chance for some of the older pseudos players to have a chance to shine and connect with the new Ubers UU people.

Highlight matches could be cool I guess. We'd still need a way to get more people watching them, but maybe that's my job :covers eyes:

I don't think there's much that needs suspecting at the moment, and certainly not arceus. but this brings up the point - what would we suspect? presenting it like this just kicks the can of decisions down the road. Maybe I'd support a tera-less Ubers UU, but only for fun. I personally don't think it's worth banning tera, and I doubt ~6 games a week could prove me wrong. Anything else (except stored power, but that's a post for later) isn't worth suspecting.

SV4 is lame.
 
SS Ubers UU > SV4 > Bo3(sv) > suspect > shit "tier"
I have absolutely no interest in Ubers RU and the reason why is pretty simple, its called Ubers UU Premier League, not Ubers RU premier league. Additionally, RUbers is VR based and is frankly a pretty uninteresting meta by most metrics. As for SS Ubers UU from what I have seen it is a metagame with a lot of potential and is very different from out modern version of UUBers. It's Arcless and Teraless for starters, but also has much more removal and far more bulk thanks to many more pokemon having reliable recovery. Suspect slots are cool and I would definitely prefer them over anything RUbers, but I would prefer for them not to be included either.
 
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1. Ubers RU
It has a ladder, a playerbase, a scene (bigger than SS), a (arguably) semideveloped metagame, they deserve a chance on the big stage (Weatherland too, me likey)
2. Bo3 SV Ubers UU
It just makes sense, you can't go wrong with consistency, Bo3 is cool

Those are my preferred 2 if that's how the vote goes, rest of the ranking would go as follows

3. SS Ubers UU
Tier was made, it died, last i checked NDW and Lunala were both stupid broken, i'm fine with it being there but it's just an undeveloped mess with a player count of 1 (Crayons)
4. SV4
Worse Bo3, we already have 3 of those, completely unnecessary when we could get Bo3
5. Suspect Slot
No thanks, not a fan of those, if this happens, make it Arceusless though, would be interesting to watch
 
So in my personal opinion, SV4 and Bo3 would mean 4 of 6 being just SV Ubers UU. This makes it more akin to a WC.

Ubers RU from my experience is an interesting metagame, and has a reasonably active playerbase. It is active.

SS Ubers UU has a issue in the sense that it is an inactive tier w/o any developed resources for it which lends to being the biggest problem. It is in a sense much more unbalanced than Ubers RU. But it is an Ubers UU tier which does work in its favor.

A suspect tour would be fun, and would certainly assist in helping identify how a metagame would be without a certain element seen as unhealthy/uncompetitive in a safe space.

So my vote would be as follows,

Ubers RU > SS Ubers UU > Suspect Slot(preferably Tera) > SV4 > Bo3
 
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Personally I advocate for bo3 > ss ubers uu > sv4 > suspects > ubers ru

Ubers RU is pretty unstable (and personally unenjoyable as a metagame), the forum is called Ubers UU (ty fc for that one), and is not prepared to be in the first Ubers UU PL, but thats my thoughts.

bo3 is peak. its better sv4.

SS Ubers UU is basically Ubers UU with no tera and no arc and less powercreep, with a few news mons, which makes it incredibly enjoyable to me, especially with no generational gimmick.

sv4 is sv4, not bad but theres better options.

suspects is an interesting one because i'd love to test tera-less or arc-less metagames, but apparently they aren't very effective for this?
 
1. SS Ubers UU

All this talk about activity and whatnot is silly. It's six slots bro, bar a couple extra subs which will literally be mostly based off of raw player skill if they sign up for this. That being said - it is long overdue that we have had proper support for our oldgens. People keep talking about supporting the Ubers UU network - this is literally supposed to be part of it, moreso than some of what we actually have. There has long been chatter about wanting Ubers UU oldgens, and as this is a mostly for-fun team tour is the perfect opportunity for SS Ubers UU to be given a space to develop competitively. It has a lot of factors that people find enticing when talking about ubers uu conceptually (no arceus, no gimmicks), so it has a very unique identity compared to current gen. Resources and any needed tiering action are likely to get a surge of attention should it be included as people will want to begin playing and testing the tier to get drafted should it be included - because there is an actual incentive to play. It would be absolutely absurd to not have any oldgen representation in this tour, and this is the easiest to include.

2. Suspect Slots

The prospective options we have for suspect slots I find to be very interesting, and this is arugably one of the easier different formats to implement. Obviously while it is hard to say that the data produced by having these slots is truly usable for any pushes in tiering action, I do think it is a good opportunity for people to see if their opinions may be swayed should they have the chance to play with certain changes.

3. Bo3

Personally I agree with a fairy that realistically this should go over one of the SV slots, but I know that Imperial was not super partial to this. Regardless, I would still prefer this over another SV slot as is.

4. SV4

lol

5. Ubers RU

Please keep this tier out of the tour. Beyond the concept that it doesn't belong, it is just not an enjoyable tier on a fundemental and the support is just as lacking as tiers that have literally barely been played. They also literally just had a tournament recently, so I would rather the focus of this tour be on not just celebrating Ubers UU, but also giving much-needed attention to our more ignored formats.
 
Ubers RU > SS > Bo3 > Suspect > SV4

I believe Ubers RU is a fun enough metagame, and that it deserves a chance. It is also going through some changes right now. I think of the same of Swords and Shield. Bo3 brings a more “skill” portion to the tour, Suspect isn’t something that should be here, and a fourth slot is stupid asf
 
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Could always give a second nd ubers uu slot.... I don't see anything wrong with that. ;)

But otherwise bo3 > ss ubers uu > suspect >= sv4 > ubers ru

Keep the tour "ubers uu"-based.
  1. bo3 is a more interesting use of the slot than just having a fourth svuubers, and it'll also inflate the usage stats to make them more useful overall for analysis later.
  2. Including SS Ubers UU is bound to get it more attention, and its lack of gimmicks sounds interesting.
  3. Suspect slot is fine I guess. You'll get games and some tier progress. Just make sure the suspect slot is appealing.
  4. Neutral on SV4.
  5. Ubers RU isn't literally an Ubers UU tier, even if it isn't actually a usage-based tier.
 
Ubers RU > SS Ubers UU > Bo3

Ubers RU is a good way to expand the way Gen 9 Ubers play itself, it may be a little off-putting and could be considered unbalanced for a lot, but the tier is already in action position, and is been having a lot of support and development with a respectable playerbase, a ladder and a room on a side server

SS Ubers UU seems like a pretty similar and exciting proposal of a different way of playing Ubers, specially understanding the way Gen 8 Ubers is played

Bo3 is just the best way to play in a Tour

The other options sound pretty awkward and pretty much could make the tour more stale or volatile
 
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Finchely here with another based af take for ya'll to feast your eyes on:

1. Bo3
Bo3 is just better SV4 in every way. Bo3 is more consistent than the typical Bo1, and it also provides a highlight match for each team. The supposed "downside" to a Bo3 slot is that it's a lot more work, which I think is kind of a short-sighted way of looking at things. For one, Bo3 is the standard format for individual tours of which there are many with very high prestige. Secondly, this "downside" of needing a lot more extra prep can actually be a positive in that it could motivate teams to draft one or two more players to help support. As I see it, the best thing that this tour can do is to provide the team tour experience to UUbers players who haven't previously been able to be drafted in UUFPL, UUBD, and UMPL, and I think that a Bo3 slot would be the best way to facilitate this while also being a fun and exciting option.

2. SS Ubers UU
While I have yet to play the format, I think that it would be a very fun and enjoyable experience to view an Ubers UU tier set in such vastly different generation. I don't have particularly strong feelings towards the tier, but I think it would definitely be very exciting and could be a cool way to invite people with SS Ubers experience into Ubers UU. My greatest qualm with it though, is that it just has a definite lack of prior activity, and could end up in a bit of a spotty situation if there aren't enough competent starters.

3. Ubers RU
Given that of the 5 options given, 3 of them (Bo3, Suspect, SV4) are essentially an SV Ubers UU slot, I think it's pretty likely that we'll end up with a tour with 4 effective SV slots. That said, I think that the last slot should provide some excitement with something not previously seen before on the big stage. And with that, I present Ubers RU. I haven't tried it out in a while, but it was decent back when I did give it a whirl. The biggest issue with it though is that it is based off of the largely outdated Ubers UU VR. Currently, the council is working to get a new VR up and running, but the sudden shifts might prove volatile for Ubers RU. They do have one over SS Ubers UU however, in that they definitely have an active playerbase from which players could be drafted from - although the tier isn't too difficult to pick up for anyone who's experienced enough with Ubers UU. As for my stance on whether Ubers RU should be allowed in an "UbersUUPL", I honestly don't think it's really that big of a deal. On the one hand I do understand that Ubers UU certainly wouldn't belong in something like UPL, but also we're really nothing so established as other metas on smogon, and I think it's fine to allow Ubers RU a place in this tour. Overall, I think that Ubers RU would be a fun and refreshing slot to see, and I don't think there's too much beyond that that needs to be considered.

4. Suspect Slot
I think that a suspect slot could definitely be fun and could allow us to test out some things such as Arc-Steel and Arc-Flying which keep appearing on the surveys (altho i'm of the opinion that we really should take them off). Personally I think it'd be cool to see a Tera-less Ubers UU, and I wouldn't mind an Arc-less Ubers UU which I know Imperial is interested in. It would certainly make for something exciting, but I'm not really so sure about including this when it could very well turn out to be not too different from normal SV Ubers UU. It's just sort of vague what this will turn out to be like, and by nature won't be wildly different from normal Ubers UU in the way SS Ubers UU could. I really want to see Bo3 included as one of the two slots up for debate, which already consumes the "fourth SV slot", which is why I'm not such a big fan of including a suspect slot in the UbersUUPL. That aside, I also don't even think that there's anything super pressing that we really want to test. I could see the case for a suspect slot in the future if there was a very controversial matter at hand, but currently I think we're in a pretty stable spot in the meta with only Lando potentially being a problem. The suspect slot would end up being just a cool "what-if", but I don't think it'd amount to much more than that. I'd definitely be fine with a cool "what-if" slot and I could see myself having fun, but I don't think it's nearly so good as to merit its pick over others'.

5. SV4
I'll cut to the chase - I think that this really just doesn't have any merit. We already have 3 dedicated SV slots, and a more-or-less better version of SV4 in Bo3. There's no novel excitement to be had here, and it doesn't hold any particularly great advantages over Bo3. It'll be just another redundant SV slot that's being played three times over every week the entire tour.
 
Alright, time to get my nominations in.
1) SwSh Ubers UU - With how Ubers UU was finally successful as a concept in SV, it would be interesting to see how it could've functioned in the most recent oldgen, being SS. Also with how that gen's "Ubers OU" is associated with having a "big three" in :eternatus:, :yveltal: and :necrozma-dusk-mane:, it might feel nice to play a Ubers meta where those wouldn't be the dominant forces for once.

2) Suspect - Like it or not, this tier has had some mons staying longer than they should have in the first place over the year this tier was recognized. This slot would give ideas or at least expose some possible problems that have been lurking under the surface, like what :arceus-dragon: was until October, when it finally emerged to be metagame-warping. My only wish would be that each week has a new/different ban/unban.

3) Ubers RU - I believe that their tiering methodology (through the viability rankings over usage rates) is a result of being a niche meta offshooting from a niche meta, but it still is surprisingly developed. They are also a more active playerbase than SwSh Ubers UU's meta.

4) Bo3 - Only better than a 4th SV Ubers UU because it's more like a normal tournament match.

5) SV4 - We already have 3 of these, a 4th is just a wasted slot imo.
 
Ss > RUbers > Suspect > Bo3 > SV4

Coming from a completely biased perspective, SS has made insane strides in the span of a few hours. I really want to see the meta succeed and grow and I think this could be a great way for it to do just that.
I haven't actually played Ubers Ru, but I love supporting smaller tiers. And at least Reshiram is technically viable there, kind of.
Suspect is cool, arcless and teraless should be the first things tried out but I think hazardless could also be really cool. Or even bootless.
Bo3 is Bo3
Sv4 is boring. I think I get the reasoning, but I also just think Bo3 is a better version of it, and I'd rather the other formats over it anyways to help with Ss and ru getting somewhere and Suspect doing some good for meta testing.
 
1: Bo3
Peak format. Should've been on the original but I get why it wasn't. Most skill expression in builder and play, always shows the best of the tier and if people want this to be looked at seriously more then I think you have to do it.

2: Ss
Seems like a good idea for expanding ubers uu as a tier and showing that it's not just a gen 9 phenomenon. From the looks of it it seems like sv uubers but a bit less centralized so depends what people are looking for. Besides that it seems interesting and looks to have a pretty different metagame than SV's, and serves a similar purpose to ND in a team tour.

3: Suspect
From what I understand its whatever amount of rulings that are locked for the whole tournament. Could be interesting but I kinda wish it was changed every 2 weeks instead to cover more ground as well as be the wildcard/interesting tier that shows off quick thinking and team building in a somewhat unexplored metagame. But I only really think the first two have any real merit to being added with this one being real iffy.

4: Sv4
Just another SV slot nothing to really say here. Probably ends up being the lowest quality one if added.

5: Ru
This "tier" is just bad and doesn't fit for so many reasons. Gonna be similar to previous ones but its still true. I think the main issues are that its VR based which is just fake for a tier naming itself after usage based and seems subjective as hell even if the VR is solid. I don't see it becoming a real solid metagame either, even if there apparently was a tour recently. I still can't even believe its still around tbh considering all the changes and stuff they had to pull to even TRY and keep it alive. If you can't tell I hate this metagame and don't think it has a place outside of its own tournaments.
 
Going to be upfront and say I do not really have a stake in UUbers or this tournament at all, but running 5/6 slots with the same format is a bad idea.

Teams draft to win, and naturally draft players who win consistently and also build are a rare commodity in smaller communities. This leads to managers drafting tour plaers (players who are known to be good at mons through other formats and tournaments but have little or no experience in the tier specifically) and having other people build for them. This can lead to a proportionally few people building for the majority of the team. Things like builder burnout and unexpected busyness in life become 20x worse when you now have to deal with building or advising 5 slots worth of the same exact tier. Having 5 slots of the same meta is also generally unhelpful for other kinds of tour burnout, but thats much harder to quantify.

Again, please take everything I just said with a MASSIVE grain of salt, as I am not familiar with how Ubers UU functions, but I would highly advise having the last 2 slots not both be SV slots. Taking Bo3 or SV4 should be fine and is perfectly reasonable, but I would be highly skeptical of taking both as your remaining slots.
 
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