Yeah that was kind of a more hypothetical thing. I don't think it realistically should ever be bumped because at the end of the day good signups just mean a better overall draft.
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Tournament UUbersPL Format Discussion
- Thread starter Imperial
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Here's my two cents of the situation:
For starters, on a level of principle, I don't really think Ubers RU really has a place in a UbersUUPL, for the fact that the tier isn't a horizontal extension of Ubers UU. Ubers does not include Ubers UU in its tournaments because Ubers UU is a vertical extension of Ubers, while UUFPL did include Ubers UU because Ubers UU is a horizontal extension of UU formats. On a similar thread, I also think that Natdex doesn't really belong in our tour. Natdex afaik never mixes with standalone generations in any of the notable Smogon tournaments, so it stands on principle that it shouldn't really belong in our PL given that we are SV Ubers UU. That said though, I also don't think that kind of stuffy principle and precedent and whatnot isn't really all that important esp when it comes to deciding the formats for a subforum tour of all things. While it personally does feel a little weird including ND Ubers UU, it's honestly probably going to be a fun time in the end, especially given their recent change of leadership which will hopefully take the tier in a better direction than it was taken in previously. My thoughts on ND are mostly the same for Ubers RU. On principle it doesn't belong, but it'll probably be pretty fun so it's not that big a deal. It does irk me however that the Ubers RU players basically never offered an explanation for why their format should be picked over others, and instead mostly only dropped one-liners. It's a little hard for me to take them seriously when a vast majority aren't really willing to elaborate on their posts, especially even when the TL sent out a second post asking people not just to drop one-liners. I think that the biggest limiting factor rn, is that we're doing a 6-slot tour with 4 slots already locked in. In this edition of UbersUUPL, I don't really see a strong reason to include Ubers RU given how they not only shouldn't technically belong, but also don't really make a strong case for themselves. There's only two slots up for debate, and as of right now, I think that Bo3 and SS are just the better options. In the future though, I do think that Ubers RU could definitely be taken more seriously for something like an UbersUUPL II. For one, they've just updated their tiering system so that they'll be using Ubers UU mons ranked C+ and below, as opposed to the previous B ranking, which will allow for a more unique meta compared to Ubers UU. When it comes to their amount of discord activity, it is definitely a problem when you look at when the last message was sent in each channel. However, I feel like their activity shouldn't be that serious an issue when it's hardly any worse than Natdex, which had a guaranteed slot. For reference, here're screenshots of their #general channels
If Ubers UU continues on an upwards trend in terms of activity and interest, I think that expanding UbersUUPL II into an 8-slot tour would be great, cause then we could definitely reasonably fit in Ubers RU. Overall I feel like there's a lot of bias against Ubers RU cause ppl think that it's mostly made up of bad players who couldn't hack it out in Ubers UU so they made up their own format in order to have a place where they could stand out. Which is probably true of one of their old founders, but that doesn't diminish the fact that the rest of the playerbase does enjoy the tier. Unsure how to wrap this up, so I think I'm just going to do a TLDR bullet-point list or something:
For starters, on a level of principle, I don't really think Ubers RU really has a place in a UbersUUPL, for the fact that the tier isn't a horizontal extension of Ubers UU. Ubers does not include Ubers UU in its tournaments because Ubers UU is a vertical extension of Ubers, while UUFPL did include Ubers UU because Ubers UU is a horizontal extension of UU formats. On a similar thread, I also think that Natdex doesn't really belong in our tour. Natdex afaik never mixes with standalone generations in any of the notable Smogon tournaments, so it stands on principle that it shouldn't really belong in our PL given that we are SV Ubers UU. That said though, I also don't think that kind of stuffy principle and precedent and whatnot isn't really all that important esp when it comes to deciding the formats for a subforum tour of all things. While it personally does feel a little weird including ND Ubers UU, it's honestly probably going to be a fun time in the end, especially given their recent change of leadership which will hopefully take the tier in a better direction than it was taken in previously. My thoughts on ND are mostly the same for Ubers RU. On principle it doesn't belong, but it'll probably be pretty fun so it's not that big a deal. It does irk me however that the Ubers RU players basically never offered an explanation for why their format should be picked over others, and instead mostly only dropped one-liners. It's a little hard for me to take them seriously when a vast majority aren't really willing to elaborate on their posts, especially even when the TL sent out a second post asking people not just to drop one-liners. I think that the biggest limiting factor rn, is that we're doing a 6-slot tour with 4 slots already locked in. In this edition of UbersUUPL, I don't really see a strong reason to include Ubers RU given how they not only shouldn't technically belong, but also don't really make a strong case for themselves. There's only two slots up for debate, and as of right now, I think that Bo3 and SS are just the better options. In the future though, I do think that Ubers RU could definitely be taken more seriously for something like an UbersUUPL II. For one, they've just updated their tiering system so that they'll be using Ubers UU mons ranked C+ and below, as opposed to the previous B ranking, which will allow for a more unique meta compared to Ubers UU. When it comes to their amount of discord activity, it is definitely a problem when you look at when the last message was sent in each channel. However, I feel like their activity shouldn't be that serious an issue when it's hardly any worse than Natdex, which had a guaranteed slot. For reference, here're screenshots of their #general channels
If Ubers UU continues on an upwards trend in terms of activity and interest, I think that expanding UbersUUPL II into an 8-slot tour would be great, cause then we could definitely reasonably fit in Ubers RU. Overall I feel like there's a lot of bias against Ubers RU cause ppl think that it's mostly made up of bad players who couldn't hack it out in Ubers UU so they made up their own format in order to have a place where they could stand out. Which is probably true of one of their old founders, but that doesn't diminish the fact that the rest of the playerbase does enjoy the tier. Unsure how to wrap this up, so I think I'm just going to do a TLDR bullet-point list or something:
- If we're ignoring precedent by including ND in an otherwise gen-by-gen tour, then it's fine to ignore precedent with Ubers RU as well
- Ubers RU's discord activity isn't great, but it's still comparable to ND which had the guaranteed slot
- There isn't a strong case to include Ubers RU in our very limited 6-slot tour, but I think there shouldn't be a big issue including it in a potential future 8-slot tour
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I think it's time for me to step in. I've been reading every post, I've been taking every criticism (rip my mental health), and I've been thinking of everything. I'd like to thank Kine for continuing to fight, but I think it's the tier leaders turn to step in.
I believe that Ubers RU should be put into this tour. This may be obvious, but I want to explain why.
The number 1 complaint I've seen is that "tier sucks" and "tier boring". While I think that is very opiniated, we are nonetheless committed to pushing the tier into a better state for everyone. Maybe you find it boring in the state it was in last week, due to the fact that the tiers current policy is anything above B rank on the Ubers UU VR is banned.
This made a lot of broken pokemon exist in the tier. This also created an identity issue, as all the top tiers had relevant roles in Ubers UU. As you are probably reading this post, I am moving the cutoff to C+. This removes most of the banworthy mons in the old system, keeps good defensive options and keeps enough ubers for the tier to be functional. I believe this is the best move for this tier right now, and after that I'll try to create new resources and update pre-existing ones.
I've looked at the new tier. My council/mods have looked at it as well as other people. This tier has no outstanding threats besides Espathra which will probably be quick banned.
Is the tier much more inactive then SS Ubers UU? Yes. And its kinda my fault. However, does this tier have people willing to play it? Does this tier have potential that will be brought out by UbersUUPL? Is the tier leader going to do his best? The answer to all of these is also yes.
People say that "Ubers RU doesn't fit here". I personally disagree. We are an extension of Ubers UU, meaning we are a part of it meaning we do belong here. I don't know how much I can change yall opinions, but I am, and will continue working on this tier.
I believe that Ubers RU should be put into this tour. This may be obvious, but I want to explain why.
The number 1 complaint I've seen is that "tier sucks" and "tier boring". While I think that is very opiniated, we are nonetheless committed to pushing the tier into a better state for everyone. Maybe you find it boring in the state it was in last week, due to the fact that the tiers current policy is anything above B rank on the Ubers UU VR is banned.
This made a lot of broken pokemon exist in the tier. This also created an identity issue, as all the top tiers had relevant roles in Ubers UU. As you are probably reading this post, I am moving the cutoff to C+. This removes most of the banworthy mons in the old system, keeps good defensive options and keeps enough ubers for the tier to be functional. I believe this is the best move for this tier right now, and after that I'll try to create new resources and update pre-existing ones.
I've looked at the new tier. My council/mods have looked at it as well as other people. This tier has no outstanding threats besides Espathra which will probably be quick banned.
Is the tier much more inactive then SS Ubers UU? Yes. And its kinda my fault. However, does this tier have people willing to play it? Does this tier have potential that will be brought out by UbersUUPL? Is the tier leader going to do his best? The answer to all of these is also yes.
People say that "Ubers RU doesn't fit here". I personally disagree. We are an extension of Ubers UU, meaning we are a part of it meaning we do belong here. I don't know how much I can change yall opinions, but I am, and will continue working on this tier.
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