Pet Mod VaporeMons

Moves
Witch Kick(SV)
Fell Stinger (SV)
Desert Storm
Dragon Rage / Rage
Berry Blast
Powder Bomb

Items
Whoopie Cushion
Mantis Claw
Old Rod
Leaf Wings (SV)
Baseball Glove (SV)
Desert Rose

Abilities
Electric Current | Misty Cover | Psychic Insight
Gluttony
Curious Medicine
Clarity
Perseverance
Corrosion (SV)

Adjustments
Rotom
Cryogonal
Okidogi (chemicalmines)
Froslass
Eelektross
Grubbin/Charjabug/Vikavolt
 
Moves:
Dissolution (SV)
Latent Venom (SV)
Witch Kick (Catzzadilla)
Dragon Rage / Rage (Yoshiblaze)
Focus Punch (HydreigonTheChild)

Items:
Mantis Claw (SV)
Staff of the Letter Magus (SV)
Diancite Stone Fragment (Orangesodapop)
Altarianite Stone Fragment (Orangesodapop)
Perfume Bottle (Z-nogyroP)
Doom Bell (Z-nogyroP)

Abilities:
Aftershock (SV)
Stoneskin (SV)
Anticipation (Orangesodapop)
Blaze/Torrent/Overgrow/Swarm (Orangesodapop)
Solid Rock (Swagodile)
Unfinished Business (Catzzadilla)

Adjustments:
Wigglytuff (SV)
Loyal Three (SV)
Brute Bonnet (DenebStargazer)
Froslass (Z-nogyroP)
Grafaiai (Yoshiblaze)
Mamoswine (IceLevelIncarnate)
 
Moves
Brick Break / Psychic Fangs / Sledgehammer Blow (The Damned)
Latent Venom (Beaf Cultist)
Friction Burn (DenebStargazer)
Dragon Impact (HydreigonTheChild)

Items
Teal Mask (Totally_Odette)
Mantis Claw (Beaf Cultist)

Abilities
Power Spot (SV)
Fairy Ring / Justified (The Damned)
Mirror Armor (HydreigonTheChild)
Blaze / Torrent / Overgrow / Swarm (Orangesodapop)

Adjustments
Okidogi (SV)
Ambipom (SV)
Wigglytuff (Beaf Cultist)
Snorlax (IceLevelIncarnate)
Froslass (Z-nogyroP)
 
Moves
Desert Storm (SV)
Latent Venom
Brick Break | Psychic Fangs | Sledgehammer Blow
Dragon Rage | Rage
Dissolution

Items
Perfume Bottle (SV)
Mantis Claw

Abilities
Momentum
Prev Drive (SV)
Possessive (SV)
Power Spot

Adjustments
Brambleghast
Froslass (SV)
Mamoswine (chemicalmines)
Loyal Three
Wigglytuff
Snorlax
 

Yoshiblaze

ye
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Moves
Dragon Rage / Rage (SV)
Smelling Salts / Burning Jealousy (SV)
Brisk Wind
Feint
Powder Bomb
Thought Exercise

Items
Diancite Stone Fragment
Teal Mask (Totally_Odette)

Abilities
Tinted Lens (SV)
Disguise / Ice Face (SV)
Blaze & co.
Power Spot
Fairy Ringer / Justified
Momentum

Adjustments
Cryogonal (SV)
Grafaiai (SV)
Ambipom
Loyal Three (Beaf Cultist)
Snorlax
Brambleghast

Voting is now closed, results will be out shortly!
 

Yoshiblaze

ye
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Sl8 winners!

Same process as always, with this slate's cutoff being 5.
Moves
Brick Break+ - 5
Desert Storm - 5
Dragon Rage / Rage - 5
Latent Venom - 5

Dissolution - 4
Milk Drink+ - 4
Powder Bomb - 4
Berry Blast - 3
Comeuppance - 2
Feint - 3
Brisk Wind - 2
Dragon Impact - 2
Friction Burn - 2
Heat Wave - 2
Smelling Salts+ - 2
Thought Exercise - 2
Witch Kick - 2
Fell Stinger - 1
Focus Punch - 1
Last Resort - 1
Neutralise - 1

Items
Mantis Claw - 8

Reaper Cloth - 4
Altarianite Stone Fragment - 3
Baseball Glove - 3
Desert Rose - 3
Diancite Stone Fragment - 3
Old Rod - 3
Teal Mask+ (AK) - 3
Teal Mask (TO) - 3
Leaf Wings - 2
Perfume Bottle - 2
Staff of the Letter Magus - 2
Colossal Broom - 1
Doom Bell - 1
Reppep Berry - 1
Whoopie Cushion - 1

Abilities
Blaze+ - 5
Fairy Ring / Justified - 5
Momentum - 5

Mirror Armor - 4
Stoneskin - 4
Corrosion - 3
Disguise / Ice Face - 3
Power Spot - 3
Solid Rock - 3
Aftershock - 2
Curious Medicine - 2
Gluttony - 2
Possessive - 2
Tinted Lens - 2
Wooden Armor - 2
Anticipation - 1
Big Pecks - 1
Clarity - 1
Electric Current+ - 1
Embody Aspect - 1
Eusocial - 1
Guard Dog - 1
Perseverance - 1
Prey Drive - 1
Unfinished Business - 1

Adjustments
Wigglytuff - 6
Froslass - 5
Loyal Three (BC) - 5
Snorlax - 5

Ambipom - 4
Brambleghast - 4
Cryogonal - 4
Brute Bonnet - 3
Fezandipiti (B) - 3
Grafaiai - 3
Mamoswine (I) - 3
Okidogi (c) - 3
Eelektross - 2
Hydreigon - 2
Rotom - 2
Ampharos - 1
Golem-Alola - 1
Vikavolt - 1
Kommo-o - 1
Lycanroc-Dusk - 1
Ogerpon (AK) - 1
Ogerpon (LF) - 1
Skeledirge - 1


WINNERS
Name: Brick Break | Psychic Fangs | Sledgehammer Blow [adjustment | "adjustment" | original]
Power: 85 [all]
Accuracy: 100% [all]
PP: 10 (max. 16) [all]
Category: Physical [all]
Type: Fighting | Psychic | Steel
Effect: Removes Light Screen, Reflect, and Aurora Veil from opposing side of field and then does damage. [all]
Priority: 0 [all]
Flags: Contact, Mirror, Protect | Bite, Mirror, Protect (no longer Contact) | Contact, Mirror, Protect
Potential Pokemon With This Move: all the mons that already have Brick Break (seriously, it's a lot) | all the mons that already have Psychic Fangs (more than I expected now that it's a TM) | any "Iron" mon? + :crabominable:, :crawdaunt:, :scizor:, :tinkaton:
Justification: Gods I really want to deal with Aurora Veil more directly on principle since :ninetales-alola: Ninetales-Alola is likely going to have be deal with eventually in some way anyway, but I'll wait a slate I guess. So instead I'll try to mitigate its BS by making Brick Break more worth using by bringing it in line with Psychic Fang's weirdly 10-BP-higher self as well as making another version of them that both isn't blocked by any type and crushes Ninetales-Alola stupid face four times over. In fact, in the likely case you're slower, Sledgehammer Blow just OHKO it while destroying screens, effectively negating its existence.

As recompense, Sledgehammer Blow should have far less distribution than Brick Break or Psychic Fangs. Like pretty much 10% of Brick Break's distribution at max just to be "fair" (not that Aurora Veil deserves fairness). Finally, I mostly just threw in Psychic Fangs here in the unlikely case that it might want to be distributed to any other mons despite getting a lot more distribution in Gen 09 as an apparent TM now. Making it non-Contact was just to make some (positive) change to it.
Name: Desert Storm
Power: 90
Accuracy: 100
PP: 15
Category: Physical
Type: Ground
Effect: Hits two turns after use and sets sandstorm. Sandstorm is set even if the move does not hit due to immunities.
Priority: 0
Flags: Same as Future Sight
Potential Pokémon With This Move: Rock and Ground-types
Justification: Here's a way of manually setting weather with an attack that's not super boring. Lets you pivot into an abuser before the effect activates so you can reap the full benefits of it, while also setting up an Earthquake+ for your opponent to maneuver around.
Name: Dragon Rage / Rage
Power: 85
Accuracy: 100%
PP: 10
Category:
(DR) /
(R)
Type:
/

Effect: For the entire turn (activated at the start of the turn a la Focus Punch), if this Pokemon gets hit by an attack, its SpA (DR) / Atk (R) goes up by 1 stage
Priority: 0
Flags (ex: Contact, Sound): Protect, Mirror, Contact (R)
Potential Pokémon With This Move::dipplin::flapple::appletun::dragonite::garchomp::salamence::kommo-o::roaring moon::cyclizar::goodra::goodra-hisui::gyarados::milotic::hydreigon::regidrago::scream tail::altaria::dragalge::noivern::tatsugiri::rayquaza::eternatus::charizard::ampharos::haxorus::salazzle::dondozo: / :charizard::primeape::tauros::tauros-paldea-combat::tauros-paldea-aqua::tauros-paldea-blaze::gyarados::flareon::dudunsparce::salamence::krookodile::houndoom::wyrdeer::altaria::basculin::basculin-white-striped::bruxish::snorlax::ursaluna-bloodmoon::ursaluna::zoroark-hisui::staraptor::braviary::zangoose::gumshoos::greedent::slaking::squawkabilly::wigglytuff::pyroar::okidogi::morpeko::lycanroc-dusk::hydreigon::dondozo::slither wing::iron thorns::golem::golem-alola:
Justification: WIP (neat alternative option for Dragons, taking a different approach from dropping Dracos (+ can pair well with Draco, getting your boosts back) + making a real-ish Normal move with big ol' distribution)
Name: Latent Venom
Power: 80
Accuracy: 100
PP: 5
Category:

Type:

Effect: 100% chance to badly poison the target and lower their defenses by one stage each. Strikes two turns after being used (a la Future Sight).
Priority: 0
Flags: Mirror, Protect
Potential Pokemon with this Move: poisons idk
Justification: mwahaha. positively diabolical stallbreaking tool, shedding the raw power of future sight for ultimate fatbreaking, with forced Toxics and defense drops meaning they'll be scrambling to find switchins for your breakers.
Name: Mantis Claw
Effect: If held by Scyther, Scizor, or Kleavor, mon is immune to hazards. Also gives Scyther 1.5x Speed, Scizor 1.3x defenses, and Kleavor 1.5x Attack.
Can Be Knocked Off (Yes or No): Yes
Ignored by Klutz (Yes or No): Yes
Fling Power & Effect: 120
Justification: this one’s still cool so i’m bringing it back. also notice the fling BP if you didn’t before
Name: Blaze/Torrent/Overgrow/Swarm
Effect: Same effects, However has a natural 1.2x boost to Fire/Water/Grass/Bug type moves. 1.5x boost now extends to all moves
Permanent (Yes or No): No
Mold Breaker (Yes or No): Yes
Potential Pokémon With This Ability: Same Distributio

Justification: make starter abil better lol, this gives the starters more incentive to use their abilities, and makes Volcarona better by virtue of free 1.5x at below 1/3rd hp, along with a bug boost to help it with fire resistant grounds/waters like chomp. The ability also makes a lot more sense thematically, as blaze was mostly interpreted as an overall power boost in the pokemon anime
Name: Fairy Ringer | Justified [original | adjustment]
Effect: "This Pokémon draws Fairy moves towards to itself to raise Special Atk by 1; Fairy immunity." | "This Pokémon's Attack is raised 1 stage if hit by a Dark move; Dark immunity."
Permanent: No. [both]
Mold Breaker: Yes. [both]
Potential Pokémon With This Ability: (Fairy Ringer): :brute bonnet: (only because the original mon I made it for was a mushroom), :calyrex:, :delphox: (over Magician), :electrode-hisui: (over Aftermath), :flutter mane:, :hoopa: (NOT :hoopa-unbound:...probably), :mismagius: (over Death Aura), :muk-alola: (over Power of Alchemy), and :toedscool: (see Brute Bonnet) + :chimecho:, :mandibuzz: (over Big Pecks), :noctowl: (over Keen Eye) and :trevenant: (over Frisk).
(Justified) :arcanine:, :gallade:, and :lucario: (a.k.a. the still existent mons currently with the ability) + :decidueye:, :honchkrow: (crosses wingtips behind back while replacing Insomnia), :iron leaves:, and :zarude-dada: (for clarification, this is Zarude-Dada) + :duskull: (over Frisk), :dusclops: (over Frisk), :dusknoir: (over Frisk), :jirachi:, and :ogerpon:.
Justification: Maybe this can actually win now that there aren't three different Justified submissions being constantly submitted at once and given Iron Jugulis's current reign of Mega Launcher Dark Pulse terror, with Fairy Ringer just somewhat along for the ride really. Justified going to Dusknoir's line is probably a bit weird seeming, but between Duskull supposedly "only" preying on bad kids, Dusclops supposedly only sucking people into a void who bother it, and its soul-stealing as Dusknoir being possibly under orders, it does somewhat fit. Besides, Dusknoir does need some kind of help, and I personally believe just making it Ghost/Fighting mon again isn't it, especially when there's unbanned Ghost/Fighting mon that the meta already isn't even using. Jirachi mostly gets Justified since I imagine it would ignore malicious wishes (and it already resists Fairy anyway and I will still take any excuse to make it something other than an obnoxious paraflinch machine), and Ogerpon makes sense due to her being the good guy "framed" by the "Loyal Three". The DLC1 mons for Fairy Ringer are somewhat all over the place and only Mandibuzz really benefits from it in the sense of it negating a weakness. Oh well.
Name: Momentum
Effect: The user heals 1/8th hp while using or receiving a spinning move
Spinning Moves: Rapid Spin, Ice Spinner, Spin Out, Blazing Torque, Combat Torque, Magical Torque, Noxious Torque, Wicked Torque, Drill Run, Gyro Ball, Rollout, Ice Ball, Flip Turn, U-Turn, Rain Dance, Electro Drift, Darkest Lariat, Flame Wheel, Aura Wheel, Shift Gear
Permanent (Yes or No): No
Mold Breaker (Yes or No): No
Potential Pokémon With This Ability: :claydol: :glimmora: :donphan: :great-tusk: :iron-treads: :morpeko: :revavroom: :cryogonal: :sandslash: :sandslash-alola:
Justification: spin to win
:swsh/wigglytuff:
Name: Wigglytuff
Type:

Abilities: Cute Charm / Natural Cure | Wind Rider
New Moves: Boomburst, Moonblast, Spirit Break, Teleport, Tidy Up
Removed Moves: N/A
Justification: One of these days yall will give me the wishpasser i so desire
:sv/froslass:
Name: Froslass
Type: Ice / Ghost
Abilities: Snow Cloak / Death Aura / Sheer Heart (Hidden)
New Moves: Freeze-Dry, Nasty Plot, Focus Blast, Bitter Malice
Removed Moves: None
Justification: Another attempt at adding a real special Ice-type. Sheer Heart gives Froslass the damage output it desperately wants, because it only has 80 Sp. Atk for whatever reason, while Nasty Plot is an option for Death Aura sets instead. Bitter Malice is usually an upgrade over Shadow Ball (and bypasses Baseball Bat), Freeze-Dry hits Waters and nails Ogerpon-Wellspring in particular, Focus Blast means Kingambit is not the freest switch to ever exist.
:sv/okidogi::sv/munkidori::sv/fezandipiti:
Name: Okidogi / Munkidori / Fezandipiti
Type: same as in base
Abilities: Toxic Chain (all) | Intimidate (:okidogi:) / Magic Guard (:munkidori:) / Neutralizing Gas (:fezandipiti:)
New Moves:
:okidogi: Parting Shot, Swords Dance
:munkidori: Psycho Boost
:fezandipiti: Will-O-Wisp
Removed Moves: N/A
Justification: Small but impactful buffs to all the guys since they haven't really panned out in OU. Dogi gets more immediate breaking power with SD, plus the opportunity to be a stellar pivot with Intim and Parting Shot. Munkidori gets Psycho Boost and Magic Guard to make LO Nasty Plot sets easier to run, and Fezandipiti gets Neutralizing Gas and Wisp, which greatly boost its defensive capabilities.
:swsh/snorlax:
Name: Snorlax
Type:

Abilities: Comatose / Thick Fat / Gluttony
New Moves: Rollout, Slack Off
Removed Moves: N/A
Justification: Snorlax should be a proper fat mon again. Comatose and Thick Fat sets both have value as a wall, so which you run will likely depend on what your team needs. Slack Off is the move its deserved to have ever since its introduction and might actually give it a fighting chance. Rollout on a bulky defensive pivot might seem concerning after we just took it off of Amoonguss for doing the same thing, but Snorlax isn't throwing out Toxics and Spores while also getting to keep momentum with Regen, so I think it'll be fine here.

With that, we can begin a 24 hour discussion phase as council discusses the distribution of the winning moves and abilities. You can talk about the metagame impacts you think all the winners will have, give distribution suggestions (though remember that this isn't a distribution phase like the Sylve and JolteMons of old). After that, since this was an even numbered slate, we'll extend the discussion phase until the weekend where we'll have a playtesting roomtour on Sunday! Should be nice to have a little break as it does kinda appear that a lot of us are a bit burnt out, plus that's more time to playtest the changes from both slates 7 and 8. Hope to see you there!

That's all for now, see you tomorrow!
 
worst slate of all time

Brick Break | Psychic Fangs | Sledgehammer Blow: Proof that if you resub something 500000000 times, folks will eventually vote for it (love you Litleesect :). Inoffensive moves but nothing wants any of these except for Psyfangs, cause we added a fuck ton of offensive Fighting/Steel moves already anyway. Please stop resubbing stuff 5 slates in a row Damned I beg of you.

Desert Storm: Cringe. At least this still has an immunity, but Ground is a much stronger offensive typing, not to mention the free Sandstorm for teammates (can I get confirmation that this wouldn't be affected by Smooth Rock unless the mon that clicked the move is still in, like how Future Sight works?) Hoping the BP keeps this in check, but I doubt it.

Dragon Rage / Rage: I think these got a BP buff from when I last looked at them which is good cause they looked really bad before. Rage is probably useless in OU but Dragon Rage is pretty cool on guys like uhhh hoodra ig. I'm sure we'll find abusers lol (hopefully).

Latent Venom: Lmao fuck I forgot to remove the BP. Assuming that gets fixed this is the much cooler of the two FSight clones (shameless plug.) Looking forward to seeing how this one plays out.

Mantis Claw: Glad only this won cause Reaper Cloth was omega cringe. That being said, defensive Scizor is real again, Kleavor hits like a truck, and Scyther is not OU.

Blaze clones: Not envious of Yoshi having to tiebreak these abils, cause this one was the only good one of the lot lol. Seems pretty solid, enables a lot of guys, defensive Cinderace real. Not much else to say really.

Fairy Ringer / Justified: Proof that if you resub something 500000000 times- yeah you get it. Again, inoffensive but unlikely to make a huge splash, though Fairy Ringer can do funny things with the right distribution.

Momentum: Utter garbage. Why is Rain Dance a spin move while Mortal Spin isn't? And the effect is omega cringe, basically rewarding you to the nth for clicking Rapid Spin and pivoting and nothing else (again, U-Turn is a spin move while Triple Axel isn't. lmao.) Only won because vape voters actually wet themselves every time they see MORE HEALING. We will not be giving this to Tusk :blobthumbsup:

Wigglytuff: YEEEEEESSSSSSSSS FUCK YES FINALLY OMG IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED WOOOOOOOOOOO YEAH BABY I'M SO FUCKIGN READY
but yeah, gives Wiggly a ton more immediate offensive power and utility, making it probably the best wishpasser aside from maybe Alo. Super excited to use this one.

Froslass: Pretty chill (lol.) Probably not OU but still has some respectable tools overall.

Loyal Three: These are pretty epic, but they were my sub so I'll let other folks speak on them more.

Snorlax: Do-nothing fatmon. I sleep

yeah lol this slate was rough. suffice to say, this batch of winners is actually one of the best possible outcomes considering what we had to work with. hoping folks have a bit more pep next slate
 
Gonna be honest as bad as I expected this slate to be it actually wasn't that bad, its servicable even.

Veil Moves: They sure break veil.
Desert Storm: Depends on what gets it but move looks fine, maye a tad bit strong but if you keep this out of any mon with reliable pivoting this shouldn't become unbearable.
Dragon Rage / Rage: They sure are usable stabs.
Latent Venom: I can tell this move gonna lead to massive salt, excited to see how either meta warps around it or forces people to learn how to not get their walls poisoned.

Mantis Claw: So called free thinkers when the offensive eviolite scyther sig gets subbed in.

Starter + Swarm abilities: Couldn't care much about this one, just a standard starter buff. That being said it does make stuff like Infernape or Quaquaval legit.
Fairy Ringer / Justified: Knock off absorb is honestly nice, so is fairy inmunity. Probably gonna have the smelt / color change treatment where this is given the worst distribution known to humankind but they are nice. One must imagine sisyphus happy.
Momentum: New move categories are cringe but this one is acceptable simply because it makes spinning way easier, wanna see if threads ends up beating the shitmon allegations with this one.

Wigglytuff: Still in doubt that it beats the shit mon allegations but its similar to the Blissey i subbed last slate so I can respect it.
Frosslass: Nice tools, still no way in hell this isn't more than a suicide lead tho.
Loyal trio: Guard Dog being shafted is funny but I think Okidogi probably still prefers Toxic Chain as I still don't see the potential as Okidogi as intimidate pivot with how awkward fight poison is, SD is really nice tho. Magic Guard Psycho Boost is the only reason I voted the funny monkey in tbh, but Toxic Chain is still a legit stallbreaker tool in case one wants to explore both options. Fezandipiti now has a reason to not be fully outclassed by Weezing, but I doubt its enough for it to beat the ass stat spread allegations.
Snorlax: Bulky mon, sort of like Garganacl but with a wider offensive movepool and stats, should make a nice alternative to garg especially with rollout.

Unironically this slate was significantly better than the previous slate.
 
Brick Breaks: theyre alright. they dont particularly stand out but i have a great hatred for screens cheese, so being able to destroy them more efficiently is cool
Desert Storm: bleh move. it seemed ok at first but what kind of killed it for me was the fact that u can never prevent the sandstorm from starting. giving it to anything with a sand ability seems like a bad idea
Rages: they exist, i guess. normal rage is obsolete but dragon rage could be good on bulkier things not willing to take the spatk drop from draco
Latent Venom: very interesting move. this could get somewhat annoying if too many good things get it, but with the amount of good poisons and steels, the bad poison part shouldnt be too tough to handle.

Mantis Claw: beaf item solo run. i can see scizor being the most viable with its change due to it being easier to set up sd with. kleavor also improves significantly since its slice moves hit like a freight train, but it's still a bit slow. scyther is not ou but will probably be a staple in vapemons lower tiers

Blaze clones: inclement emerald reference?! jokes aside, this could be ok. i can see most mons wanting to use other abilities over these still, but stuff like cinderace and inteleon could put this to good use.
Fairy Ringer + Justified: mostly wanted this for fairy ringer to switch into stuff like fleur cannon from mage and dkiss from enam but justified is also nice for knock and sucker protection
Momentum: vapemons subbers try not to add healing or hazard control challenge impossible

:wigglytuff:wigglytuff finally has a good use! now with tidy up, boomburst, and moonblast, wigglytuff can potentially fit itself into more roles to support its team with. wishport is also a nice tool to have
:froslass:may be a bit weak even with sheer heart (80 spatk lol) but having a viable special ice type outside of alolatales is nice. i can see it being moreof a utility attacker with spikes and taunt than anything else.
:okidogi:all of the loyal three members are good in their own regard. dogi becomes an intim pivot / sd wallbreaker, munki is a strong special sweeper and poison/burn absorber, and fez is essentially a faster gweezing.
:snorlax:snorlax seems ok, the combination of not being able to status it because of comatose and slackoff for instant recovery should make it a decently formidable wall; rollout also fits it into a bulky pivot role. the thing im concerned about is the high viability of the stuff that is able to counter normals. mons such as valiant, zama, and crab are bound to give it trouble.
 
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We all in agreement that this was a shitter slate? Let's get this over with (If you mention me not voting I will kill u)

My thoughts on all the screen breaker moves vary a little so I'll rate them individually:
Brick Break: Effectively ignoring screens is a nice buff but like... just run cc, lol​
Psychic Fangs: Power creeps Zen Headbutt as the de facto physical psychic move since it's 100% accurate, slightly higher power, and break screens. I'm... kinda okay with that though, since Zen Headbutt blows chunks and Psychics aren't eating at ALL in gen 9.​
Sledgehammer Blow: Yep this sure does kill Ninetales-A... despite the fact that I have seen literally zero complaints about that mon in vapemons, so what exactly is the point? Like am I missing out on the discussion or did we just let The Damned fulfill his personal beef with Ninetales-A? Uhh other than that though, its similar to Psychic Fangs in that it power creeps Iron Head (even down to the original move having a flinch chance holy crap)​
Desert Storm: Lets be real, Sand is not a super good weather at the moment, as long as council is careful with distribution this move isn't going to be problematic. Like who's going to abuse the sand that comes up, Sand Force Garchomp? GOOD, bring him back, pre-nerf Sand Clock chomp was heat. Also future sight + weather setting is neat-o
Rage/Dragon Rage: Dragon Rage is definitely the better of the two, and although it's going to take some time for people to use the moves effectively I highly doubt this will be a worthless vapemons addition.
Latent Venom: Delayed Toxic is certainly a powerful effect and could be quite frustrating to handle, but there are so many ways to block the poison status that I doubt this will be problematic. Excited to see how this plays out

Mantis Claw: If I face any Scythers in this weekend's roomtour I will go feral. The Scizor and Kleavor buffs are okay though

Blaze and co.: Problem with these guys really are that all the users are either A. not good enough for OU, B. have better abilities to run, such as Rillaboom and Hamurott, or C. are Bug-types (rip). Who knows though, we may see a mon or two pop off with these; I do remember hearing Overgrow Meowscarada being okay in early vanilla OU, so it could succeed here in Vapemons, especially with the prevalence of gterrain to boost its Grass moves even further.
Fairy Ringer/Justified: I mean out of all of the things to resub a morbillion times these two aren't so bad. Justified being a koff absorber would be cringe, but no other attempts at doing so have passed the vote so it's fine - besides, there are a lot of other good Dark moves to absorb as well. Fairy Ringer is less notable but still fine, give it to Hydreigon or smth that would be funny
Momentum: No.

:wigglytuff:Spirit Break and Tidy Up look good but like... is it really viable tho :wo:
:froslass: Vapemons don't vote a Sheer Heart mon challenge (impossible), but move additions are good ig
:okidogi: Likely not that impactful, but it's a solid improvement over base Dogi, especially with Swords Dance, and way more interesting than making another scrappy mon - the chemicalmines sub did have ten times better move addtions though tbh. Also rip guard dog
:munkidori: Is an actually decent special sweeper now, hooray. We, erm, don't really need those at the moment, but Munkidori is funny so I'll let it slide
:fezandipiti: Not a fan of it being better NGas Gweezing but it's an ok buff. If you made it Poison/Flying then you'd be cooking (shameless plug)
:snorlax: I am down with Snorlax being good again - whether this adjustment is actually good is debatable though, since all it can really do is shrug off hits and I guess block status with Comatose. Might also be another viable tera shard user, which would be nice to see.

ok goonight vapers
 
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Brick Break+: Hope this means we get more use out of unused moves in standard play.
Desert Storm: This move is so cool. The imminent sandstorm approaching feels like one of those sandstorm warnings that ring out in advance and give you time to take cover. Ever played Metal Gear Solid V? That's what I picture in my head. Of course, the 2 turn effect is also really nice for pivoting to an abuser, or even bluffing one. This is a great tool for sand.
(Dragon) Rage: Nice Torch song / Power-up Punch rework that takes it account your opponent hitting you to activate its effect. Can't wait to see how this turns out.
Latent Venom: This should not have BP. This is now confirmed to be more powerful than Toxic, since even if you don't poison, you still damage. Even then, Toxic is one of (imo) the two best status you can inflict on a mon, since aside from this move's intended use of pressing stall, it also heavily pressures set up sweepers who aren't Zangoose or Guts users, mons who aren't on Misty Terrain (very low use rn!!!), mons without a healing berry, safeguard, heal bell support, and any mon who has an ability that:
  • activates on staying in (ex: Speed Boost)
  • activatess on getting a KO (ex: Moxie)
  • deactivates forever when switching out (ex: Unburden)
  • is dependent on the user's HP (ex: Gale Wings)
  • activates on the opponent interacting with the user (ex: Gooey, Rough Skin, etc.)
or generally just doesn't block toxic damage. Toxic punishes the mon for staying in. You know, what you have to do to win a game? So who benefits from this addition to the game? :gholdengo: can't be hit or statused, :gliscor: heals from it, :clefable: can just run steel tera shard, :amoonguss: doesn't get poisoned and can heal by just switching out, :blissey: eats it and heals toxic upon switching out, :snorlax: eats it and doesn't get statused. Congrats. You helped the very thing you sought to destroy. Give this move to 3-5 lower tiers and that's it.

Whew, gotta catch my breath after that one. Anyways...

Mantis Claw: Scyther's back babyyyyyyyy! Oh and its evos too, whatever. I'd like this fling effect to inflict sharp damage so sharpness users can have a flingable item for fun.
Blaze+: I don't think this will fix anything or even make more mons viable.
Fairy Ringer / Justified: Turning Justified into an immunity is interesting. It feels like it needed to happen, but it also means that we finally have a knock off counter! It might take time for me to adjust to having 2 extra types that are no longer guaranteed to hit every opponent, but those types were offensively strong anyways.
Momentum: Weee beyblade. This ability looked fun but idk what would use it. Give it to some lower bulky spinners/spinblockers I guess.
:wigglytuff: Wind rider makes so much sense. Finally a viable Wind Rider user.
:Froslass: Froslass is good finally. It may now feel more like the fearful Yuki-Onna it is meant to portray.
:Okidogi: I liked the scrappy one better, why is this a pivot now? Feels like those three additions just got shoehorned onto the mon, and really clash with the rest of his set.
:Munkidori: Monkey Megamind becomes a predictable One-Trick Pony
:Fezandipiti: NGas + Wisp sounds interesting, but why didn't you give this to Okidogi? It feels like the two mons got scrambled up.
:Snorlax: Very nice buffs to Snorlax. May or may not be what he needed to get back into the game, he still has potential after all these years.

Also, feels like the cutoff was very sharp on this slate. So many elements that were very close on making it that just didn't happen. If it's not private information, what's used to determine the cutoff point? I want to understand how it works.

Anyways, back to procrastinating my Pokémon playthrough by playing Voltorb Flip over and over again (I cannot stop).
 

zxgzxg

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Latent Venom: This should not have BP. This is now confirmed to be more powerful than Toxic, since even if you don't poison, you still damage.
I believe this was a *typo. It is purely a status move. It is not meant to do damage. This is confirmed by the spreadsheet. Please "Haha" react Beaf Cultist's next post to let him know he's an idiot.

*EDIT typo
 
Wait. Did we actually manage to avoid voting in (technically) another form of healing as much some people complain about that "always" happening and instead vote in two forms of Future Sight? Well, okay then. Also, R.I.P. Mimikyu and other mons that can never win.

Anyway, finally winning something, even if it was with a couple of resubs, makes being achy all over from vaccine shots slightly more bearable. (Also, no, Beaf Cultist. Make me. /s)

SLATE 08 WINNING MOVES:
Brick Break:
The least impactful of the three unfortunately, but at least it's no longer completely obviated by Drain Punch in terms of sharing the same BP.

Psychic Fangs: No longer being flagged "Contact" is a bit of a mixed bag given how stupidly powerful Baseball Bat as an item still is, but being able to avoid Static or Flame Body hax as well as not give a damn about Spiky Shields--eat it, :ogerpon: Ogerpon--is at least nice. Whether it's a good enough for the trade-off though? Shrug. I probably should have made it (and/or Brick Break) Authentic too--maybe all three of these. Oh well.

Sledgehammer Blow: Yeah yeah, I hate :ninetales-alola: Ninetales-Alola or at least I hate it just being an Aurora Veil bot, but this is honestly the most impactful in general even without that and with Shrapnel Shot existing since a) it doesn't need Loaded Dice to guarantee its damage and b) it has 100% accuracy unlike that. It also lacks Iron Head's cringeworthy flinch chance that I don't think anyone likes outside of you monsters who like paraflinch due to being horrible people.

Darude: Of the two Future Sight clones and the new moves in general, this is easily the one that I'm worried about for reasons that Beaf Cultist already outlined: Ground is a much better attacking type than Psychic (or Poison). Sand needs a buff still, even with this, and in the sense of "buffing" Sand, this feels as incidental as when Sand Clock was its original broken self in terms of that or the buff to Meteor Beam that pretty much only buffed the broken form of Sand Clock rather than Sand itself. Also it becomes rather gross with Gravity, which apparently still exists this Gen, so....

Dragon Rage: Basically better Dragon Pulse without being Draco Meteor. Seems fine. Look forward to using it.

Rage: Probably the closest we'll get to a Return and Frustration replacement this Gen and in this Pet Mod, so also fine.

Latent Venom: I'm going to assume this is meant to be a "Special" move rather than a Status one if it actually does damage. If it's "just" delayed Toxic, then that's actually easier to deal with than delayed Poison Future Sight + 100% Toxic (obviously). Regardless, it's easily the Future Sight clone that I'm not worried about, even if 100% Toxic is annoying, since Steels and Poison types (and :gliscor: Gliscor...and now :snorlax: Snorlax...and Magic Guard mons...and Natural Cure mons...and already statused mons) just don't give a damn about that anyway.


SLATE 08 WINNING ITEM:
Mantis Claw:
Weird to see only one item win and even weirder to have voted for something that benefits Scizor after we gave it Roost back in addition to Shrapnel Shot. Still, it's not immune to Knock Off, so it should be manageable I guess. Regardless, It's time to bring a :scyther: Scyther/:scizor: Scizor/:kleavor: Kleavor team for Sunday clearly. Whoo. Family outing!


SLATE 08 WINNING ABILITIES:
Blaze / Torrent / Overgrow / Swarm:
Yeah, these aren't exactly going to be breaking anything or likely even buffing much that doesn't already have it, but they might now actually be useful on some of the things that already have them for once instead of like once in a blue moon even if it ends up only really being :meowscarada: Meowscarada as already mentioned.

Fairy Ringer / Justified: Still wish I could have thought of a better name for the former, and honestly I would have rather Nocturnal have won over the latter, but at least multiple instances of the latter weren't submitted against twice in a row and both of these did need some kind of check. It's also nice that as much as Justified does work as a Knock Off absorber, for the most part it doesn't obviate any Dark mons that get used outside of maybe :kingambit: Kingambit who deserves zero sympathy given how stupid Supreme Overlord is--besides, in theory Parry already did that. So :iron jugulis: Iron Jugulis should still be usable while its Dark Pulse Mega Launcher spam gets a lot more manageable in theory even though a lot of the things that would get this (or already have it) still get maimed by its Flying STAB or Earth Power, including poor, poor :iron leaves: Iron Leaves. (If it wasn't for still having Clangorous Soul, then I would say that :kommo-o: Kommo-o would be perfect for Fairy Ringer given its current name. As it is, though, that would probably just break it unfortunately.)

Momentum: This is the only thing that won from the entire slate that I actively dislike, in part because the list of what applies feels somewhat unintuitive--why is Rain Dance here? Why is Volt Switch not here if U-Turn, Flip Turn, and Rollout even though pivoting didn't need to be buffed in the first place?--and in part because as it's described I'm not sure if it nullifies being hit by the would-be "spinning" move or if it takes the damage & effect and then heals. I'm assuming it's nullification given how the other "heal from would-be damage abilities" work, but those go by type and don't Trigger from non-targeting moves like Rain Dance, so...yeah. This feels rather unclear as it is, and what seems to be here seems...annoying. (Also this hilariously probably nerfs :revavroom: Revavroom more than buffs it when already wasn't being used--whoops).


SLATE 08 WINNING ADJUSTMENTS:
:wigglytuff: Wigglytuff:
Despite the sheer hypocrisy of this also being a resubmission (for a mon we've already significantly buffed like...twice, now thrice), I'm mostly glad this won and I hope this actually makes Wigglytuff finally worth using without needing to waste yet another adjustment (or ability) on trying to make it worth a damn (since we all know even Geomancy won't do that).

:froslass: Froslass: Not the Ice mon I was hoping would win, but I'm still glad it won since it's always nice to have usable special attacking Ice mon in theory in OU. I would have rather there was an attempt to buff :glalie: Glalie too even if it probably still would have been trash, but oh well.

:okidogi: Okidogi: Meh. This is...a buff. I liked the other Okidogis better, but this at least isn't a downgrade or anything even though I also would have preferred it to keep Guard Dog over bog-standard Intimidate. [/damned by faint praise]

:munkidori: Munkidori: Easily the biggest winner of the three between Magic Guard being a hell of a drug and getting Psycho Boost too, which I thought it already got but apparently not. Time to hit and run with Life Orb BS when you aren't just still using Choice Scarf.

:fezandipiti: Fezandipiti: Easily the one I like the least of the three, just because I don't think we needed yet another Neutralizing Gas mon, much less one that also obviates :weezing-galar: Weezing-Galar due to sharing typing but actually having reliable recovery. Seriously, how do we have four of these now? Is any one of them being used with any regularity? Still, like Okidogi, it is a buff, so I'm not going to complain too much.

:snorlax: Snorlax: Maybe I'm overestimating Comatose, but this feels like it could be lowkey very annoying, especially now that it has Slack Off finally. That's basically the only reason I didn't vote for it even though I doubt it would be broken despite having access to Belly Drum as well. Still, Comatose makes it a nice as a physical attacker that doesn't have to worry about random Rekindle burns. Nothing else to say except that even with Froslass I have to wonder how much this ends up using Thick Fat over Comatose and Gluttony still currently remains basically an un-Ability unfortunately.
 

Yoshiblaze

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Sl8 Distribution Results!

Brick Break - Old distribution + :Cinderace:
Psychic Fangs - Old distribution + :Gyarados::Sandile::Drednaw::roaring moon:
Sledgehammer Blow - :Tinkaton::Empoleon::Goodra-Hisui::Scizor::Copperajah::Orthworm::Probopass::Gurdurr::Iron Treads::Bronzong::Corphish::Gligar::Crabrawler::Klawf::Chesnaught::Snorlax::Ursaring::Rillaboom:
Desert Storm - :Great Tusk::Landorus::Ting-Lu::Donphan::Garchomp::Hippowdon::Iron Treads::Sandy Shocks::Torterra::Krookodile::Golem::Sandaconda::Dugtrio::Dugtrio-Alola::Pyroar::Sandslash::Tyranitar::Rockruff::Whiscash::Nosepass::Stonjourner::Klawf::Orthworm:
Dragon Rage - :Dipplin::Flapple::Appletun::Dratini::Gible::Bagon::Jangmo-o::Cyclizar::Goomy::Gyarados::Milotic::Deino::Regidrago::Altaria::Dragalge::Noivern::Tatsugiri::Rayquaza::Eternatus::Ampharos::Axew::Salazzle::Dondozo:
Rage - :Charmander::Mankey::Tauros::Tauros-Paldea-Combat::Tauros-Paldea-Blaze::Tauros-Paldea-Aqua::Gyarados::Flareon::Dunsparce::Bagon::Sandile::Houndour::Stantler::Basculin::Basculin-White-Striped::Bruxish::Munchlax::Teddiursa::Ursaluna-Bloodmoon::Zoroark-Hisui::Staraptor::Rufflet::Zangoose::Yungoos::Skwovet::Vigoroth::Squawkabilly::Jigglypuff::Litleo::Okidogi::Morpeko::Lycanroc-Dusk::Hydreigon::Dondozo::Slither Wing::Iron Thorns::Geodude::Geodude-Alola::Chimchar:
Latent Venom - :Glimmet::Slowking-Galar::Sneasel-Hisui::Amoonguss::Wooper-Paldea::Fezandipiti::Gengar::Grimer-Alola::Munkidori::Okidogi::Skrelp::Shroodle::Qwilfish-Hisui::Toxtricity::Venonat::Grimer::Salandit::Slowbro-Galar::Victreebel::Croagunk::Ekans::Spinarak::Weezing::Seviper::Gligar::Vespiquen::Pincurchin::Trevenant:
Blaze - Old distribution
Torrent - Old distribution
Overgrow - Old distribution
Swarm - Old distribution + :Spinarak::ariados:(Replaces Insomnia),:Charjabug::Vikavolt:,:Tarountula::spidops:
Fairy Ringer - :Calyrex:,:Misdreavus::Mismagius:(Replaces Cute Charm on Mismagius),:Cleffa::clefairy::clefable:(Replaces Cute Charm),:Shroomish::breloom:(Replaces Effect Spore),:Chingling::chimecho:,:Hoothoot::noctowl:(Replaces Keen Eye),:Umbreon:(Replaces Synchronize),:Teddiursa::ursaring::ursaluna:(Replaces Unnerve):
Justified - Old distribution + :Iron Leaves:,:Charcadet::ceruledge::armarouge:,:Rookidee::corvisquire::corviknight:(Replaces Unnerve)
Momentum - :Cyclizar:,:Bramblin::brambleghast:,:Iron Treads:,:Varoom::revavroom:,:Sandshrew::sandslash:(Replaces Sand Veil),:Glalie:(Replaces Inner Focus)


Like I said when voting ended, this discussion phase will last a few extra days because we'll be having a playtesting roomtour on Sunday on DragonHeaven! In the meantime, be sure to test out the new things once they're live and keep on discussing the winners. See you soon!
 
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G-Luke

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Why is literally Fezandipiti from Convergence, a Mon that was considered banworthy in a metagame alot stronger than OU here? Beaf I know your ass lost to and won with this thing, why would you do this? How can you hate Gliscor THAT bad?!?
 
Why is literally Fezandipiti from Convergence, a Mon that was considered banworthy in a metagame alot stronger than OU here? Beaf I know your ass lost to and won with this thing, why would you do this? How can you hate Gliscor THAT bad?!?
ANd yet a week ago gliscor wasnt on anyones radars
 
Moves:

Brick Break, Psychic Fangs, Sledgehammer Blow - Cool.... doesnt really matter right now but its ok... its smth that can be on the sidelines esp with rarely anyone using screens.. but gives better coverage to pokemon who may need it

Desert Storm - Sounds cool...
Dragon Rage, Rage - New rage buff sounds pretty inteesting..... its odd but it gives a nice setup move for pokemon while also applying pressure.. it feels fine
Latent Venom - sounds either very bullshit or very bad. Because as a future sight clone all it takes is a steel type with protect or someone like gliscor to just protect on the hit. Yes this is abusable which is why i think it can go either way

Items:

Mantis Claw - Kleavor maybe viable, Scyther lol no, Scizor also might see this on some balance teams... but with the healing we have now it might e good.

Abilities:

Blaze, Torrent, Overgrow, Swarm - Cinderace, Meow are all way more viable.. volcarona maybe is more viable cuz the extra boot in power allows it to run bulkier sets or just put in a bit more punch.
Fairy Ringer, Justified - Luckily the distribution isnt that big... I dont like the immunity but oh well...
Momentum -.... SO more healing? Its like if someone saw the recovery nerf and went "Yes, game freak nerfed healing so must need more" ... its a fine ability otherwise... allows rapid spin users to be healthier but the amount of spin moves ... is not specific

Adjustments:

Froslass - Doubt its cutting top tiers... ice ghost is a shit typing and offensively even with death aura its weak asf.. it needs boots and without boots its killing itself. Dont see it cutting above B tier.. but this is in theory
Okidogi - I can dig it but poison / fighting is an odd typing to work with... but i can see this as a cool setup sweeper esp with SD or more sp. def sets.. maybe even scarf sets with parting shot and intimidate to be a pain
Munkidori - LO magic guard psycho boost and good god that feels like power.. or just scarf magic guard puts in work ... but still maybe im overestimating it
Fezandipiti - This is a specific "fuck gliscor" sub.... but at least it doesnt do more than that. I can see it being annoying with defensive sets thanks to its power to bypass things like purifying salt, nul regen, and other things but I still feel its typing is odd to work with esp right now
Snorlax - Maybe can work... tera shard + comatose + curse sounds like smth that can in theory work... esp with healing stones, life dew, better wish users... etc etc. Yeah.. but its still getting worn down pretty easily by hazards esp if its tera shard otherwise its working with a mid typing
Wigglytuff - I said ill entertain this but I really wanna see it do smth esp with the 2x defense item which wouldve been bullshit on any other pokemon.... this + CM sets sounds fat and annoying asf in theory
 

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