Resource VGC '16 Teambuilding Frameworks

[Draconid997]

I have updated the thread with a new dark spam framework thanks to Sardus21 and have replaced all pokemon sprites with ken sugimori artwork :)

 

[R-B-Y]

One thing that you forgot about the ray ogre core is that it is very weak to ferrothorn. A talonflame helps to counter that, or maybe overheat on rayquaza

 

[Draconid997]

oh yeah forgot about that
i will add that in thanks :)

 

[hydreigone]

Just to note, Gonbe's team had Mega Tyranitar and regular Salamence, not the other way around. Link and link.

 

[Draconid997]

Oh right :/ i assumed it was the other way around
thanks for clearing that up :]

 

[Draconid997]

Which is best in your opinion:
Groudon/kyogre
Groudon/palkia
Ho-oh/kyogre

 

[R-B-Y]

Which is best in your opinion:
Groudon/kyogre
Groudon/palkia
Ho-oh/kyogre

Groudon palkia

 

[Draconid997]

*and why XD

 

[_LightCore]

I was told that someone was looking for this link? http://nuggetbridge.com/forums/topic/22170-world-regionals-nationals-usage-statistics/

 

[Draconid997]

Thanks man :) great thread you've made
Ideally i was looking for sample teams from regionals but this document gives some great coverage on the meta that might be useful on this thread

 

[Draconid997]

Added in a few teams from the recent virginia and innsbruck regionals:

Rayquaza+Kyogre:
Edward Glover's 6th Place Virginia Regional Team
Markus Stefan's 16th Place Innsbruck Regional Team

Trick Room:
Simone Sanvito's 2nd Place Innsbruck Regional Team
Heinz Heckman's 9th Place Innsbruck Regional Team

Groudon+Ho-Oh:
Ace Emerald's 18th Place Virginia Regional Team

 

[Draconid997]

So has anybody got ideas for these possible future frameworks:

Palkia/Groudon
Rayquaza/Ho-Oh
Groudon/Kyurem-W/Gravity (quite new, this one's a maybe)
*Feel free to add your own

I will update this post with my own ideas in a bit :)

 

[Charlotte]

3rd Place Glasgow Regional Team Jamie Boyt

I just want to say that He used the same team to take 1st place at the Wakefield Regional.

Also another good sample for the whole Double-Primal Semi-TR is the team Alex Gomez (PokeAlex) that took 2nd at Wakefield.

 

[Draconid997]

I just want to say that He used the same team to take 1st place at the Wakefield Regional.

Also another good sample for the whole Double-Primal Semi-TR is the team Alex Gomez (PokeAlex) that took 2nd at Wakefield.

Thanks :)
I will add this in a bit

 

[Draconid997]

Okay so i'm thinking of separating the TR framework into Double Primal and Palkia Groudon based on previous suggestions from Jibaku and Steven Stone. The remaining teams fit into xerneas+groudon and xerneas+kyogre frameworks. I have found quite a lot of recent top cut etc teams that fit into the double primal build, so i think i've found a suitable framework, please tell me if you think differently:

Kyle Cole Double Primal Semi TR

Blake Hopper's 2nd Place Denton PC Team

Jeremy Mantingh 5th place Glasgow Team

Simone Sanvito's 2nd Place Innsbruck Team

Heinz Heckman's 9th Place Innsbruck Team

Alex Gomez's 2nd Place Wakefield Team

Aaron Zheng's 1st Place Anaheim Team

Matias Roa's 2nd Place Chile Team

Jorge Aburto's 3rd Place Chile Team

Andres Escoba's 6th Place Arnhem Team

The framework for pretty much all of these teams is:

Groudon
Kyogre - Usually Modest for use under both TR and tailwind*
Primal Support+Speed Control (TR) - Cresselia/Gothitelle/Bronzong
Mega - Kangaskhan/Mawile/Salamence
Set-up Support/Fast Mode/Mega - Smeargle (scarf/sash) /Amoonguss/Salamence
Speed Control (*Tailwind/Thunder Wave)/Fast Mode - Talonflame/Crobat/Thundurus/Smeargle

Checklist for supporting mons:

Xerneas checks: x2 (TR/Taunt/Thunder Wave/Haze etc)
Groudon checks: x1 (including skill swap, although technically bronzong doesn't really check)
Kyogre checks: x1 (including skill swap)
Rayquaza checks: x1 (mawile/salamence/TR etc)

As for Groudon/Palkia, i haven't seen enough top cut teams for an overall framework yet (apart from Aaron Zheng's team** and William Bassolino's 6th Place Preganziol team***), so any ideas you have would be really appreciated

**Aaron Zheng's Team

***William Bassolino's 6th Place Preganziol team

 

[R-B-Y]

Okay so i'm thinking of separating the TR framework into Double Primal and Palkia Groudon based on previous suggestions from Jibaku and Steven Stone. The remaining teams fit into xerneas+groudon and xerneas+kyogre frameworks. I have found quite a lot of recent top cut etc teams that fit into the double primal build, so i think i've found a suitable framework, please tell me if you think differently:

Kyle Cole Double Primal Semi TR

Blake Hopper's 2nd Place Denton PC Team

Jeremy Mantingh 5th place Glasgow Team

Simone Sanvito's 2nd Place Innsbruck Team

Heinz Heckman's 9th Place Innsbruck Team

Alex Gomez's 2nd Place Wakefield Team

Aaron Zheng's 1st Place Anaheim Team

Matias Roa's 2nd Place Chile Team

Jorge Aburto's 3rd Place Chile Team

Andres Escoba's 6th Place Arnhem Team

The framework for pretty much all of these teams is:

Groudon
Kyogre - Usually Modest for use under both TR and tailwind*
Primal Support+Speed Control (TR) - Cresselia/Gothitelle/Bronzong
Mega - Kangaskhan/Mawile/Salamence
Set-up Support/Fast Mode/Mega - Smeargle (scarf/sash) /Amoonguss/Salamence
Speed Control (*Tailwind/Thunder Wave)/Fast Mode - Talonflame/Crobat/Thundurus/Smeargle

Checklist for supporting mons:

Xerneas checks: x2 (TR/Taunt/Thunder Wave/Haze etc)
Groudon checks: x1 (including skill swap, although technically bronzong doesn't really check)
Kyogre checks: x1 (including skill swap)
Rayquaza checks: x1 (mawile/salamence/TR etc)

As for Groudon/Palkia, i haven't seen enough top cut teams for an overall framework yet (apart from Aaron Zheng's team** and William Bassolino's 6th Place Preganziol team***), so any ideas you have would be really appreciated

**Aaron Zheng's Team

***William Bassolino's 6th Place Preganziol team

I'm pretty sure a couple of kyogre dialga teams top cut some events. Kyogre dialga is really good now since ray ogre is running around everywhere

 

[Jibaku]

CHuppa's 4th place St Louis Double Primal team (more like kingofmars's team actually) is unique in that it's the only one w/o Trick Room

Fast Groudon/bulky Kyogre/Thundurus/Salamence/Ferrothorn/Amoonguss

 

[Draconid997]

I'm pretty sure a couple of kyogre dialga teams top cut some events. Kyogre dialga is really good now since ray ogre is running around everywhere

I've definitely seen a few around, i'll try find them for tomorrow :)

CHuppa's 4th place St Louis Double Primal team (more like kingofmars's team actually) is unique in that it's the only one w/o Trick Room

Fast Groudon/bulky Kyogre/Thundurus/Salamence/Ferrothorn/Amoonguss

Very interesting team, having both ferrothorn and amoonguss is something i'll look into for sure :)
I'll try making a new framework with some more variables for tomorrow as well

 

[Draconid997]

These are some dialga/kyogre teams that i've found:

Alex Underhill's 6th Place Collinsville Team

Daryl Sprenger's 4th Place Innsbruck Team

1st Place Lenexa PC Team

I guess a framework could be:

Dialga
Kyogre
Fake Out support
Primal Support/Speed Cont.
Xerneas Check
Fast mode/Ferrothorn Check

It's hard to tell with few teams :/

Updated my ideas for palkia groudon after a bit of research/teambuilding theory

Aaron Zheng's Team

William Bassolino's 6th Place Preganziol team

Flavo del Pidio's 1st Place Rome Team

Domenico Vaccariello's 3rd Place Novara Team

Pokemon.com's Two Recommended Teams

(Version 1)

(Version 2)

(My own version)

^ with this team i tried to maximise my matchup versus top 4 whilst still having a decent team structure ^
Checks:
xerneas x4 (groudon/cresselia/ferrothorn/crobat)
groudon x3 (palkia/cresselia+groudon)
kyogre x4 (palkia/groudon+cresselia/ferrothorn)
rayquaza x2/3 (haban berry palkia/~cresselia/Ferrothorn)

So after looking over all the top cut teams, i've come up with a framework:

Groudon (usually slow/bulky)
Palkia (TR+kyogre/groudon check+gravity)
Speed Control - Cresselia (TR setter+gravity+weather control) Crobat (Tailwind+Xerneas check)
Mega/Fake Out Support (Usually kangaskhan)
Xerneas Counter - Amoonguss/Ferrothorn/Mawile
Support - (Speed Control/Redirection/Intimidate Support etc)

Please let me know if you disagree or have anything to contribute to this framework :)

 

[Mr.Hiei]

Hello wanted to know if there is any link to view the importable all the teams that are in the Team Frameworks?

 

[Draconid997]

Only the pictures of the pokemon used at events were released, so i don't know for certain what was used in terms of EVs/Moves sorry
I'm sure we can deduce the EVs roughly, and as for the moves, most pokemon use pretty similar movesets, which teams were you most interested in?

 

[Mr.Hiei]

And I was interested in testing some it will have vgc tournament here where I live and wanted to see what would be good to be able to use only that same

 

[Draconid997]

[200th Post XD]

What teams are you interested about? i can give you some sample sets, but some teams may use very specific sets depending on the player etc

 

[Unbreakable]

Why does the Big 6 team have two megas on it? Is the idea to pick the mega depending on what you see in Team Preview?

 

[Jibaku]

With power shifted from Megas to the restricted Pokemon this year, they've become more of a supporting cast than being primary offensive threats. The mega slot thus becomes less of a premium, and players often use 2 megas to maximize flexibility with the restricted mons in mind.