I'm not a team rater, but you might benefit from having full EVs on Porygon-2 and Marowak.
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VGC 17 Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Ksh13
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Whoops.
Fixed that
Hi, its me again
Thank you guys for the tips
But anyone have good spreads for pokemon, which work good with (my) minior?
I will be happy too, if somebody have a nice idea for a team concept with Minior.
I have to say that Im good at VGC, but Ive never built a complete team of six pokemon at my own, so i need help.
thank you for taking time for helping me out.
‹(^–^‹) Kirby
Thank you guys for the tips
But anyone have good spreads for pokemon, which work good with (my) minior?
I will be happy too, if somebody have a nice idea for a team concept with Minior.
I have to say that Im good at VGC, but Ive never built a complete team of six pokemon at my own, so i need help.
thank you for taking time for helping me out.
‹(^–^‹) Kirby
Minior is not a very good pokemon in VGC since its serviceable singles bulk is much less effective in doubles especially considering the prominence of powerful electric types in the current meta. Celesteela is also a very hard pokemon to deal with for Minior which doesn't tend to carry moves that hit it SE and without defensive investment is OHKO'd by heavy slam. If you were to run him, you'd need a lightning rod user to protect him, either Togedemaru or Marowak and something that can chunk through Celesteela with a strong electric or fire attack, again Marowak is a good option since most Celesteela don't run coverage for it aside from the occasional EQ (most run heavy slam/flamethrower/leech seed/protect).
Here's top8 from another premier challenge event. A bit more diverse than the grand finals from the first event but the same general usage patterns persist. Garchomp and Gyarados are the premier offensive threats (though both can run defensive/utility sets, versatility is a big plus since with team preview it makes you a bit harder to predict) which makes intimidate very good. All but one team runs an intimidate, and the team without an intimidate runs a Trace Porygon2 which is just as good in a meta this loaded with intimidate users.
It's still worth paying attention to Showdown over premier events though, IMO the Showdown meta evolves more quickly since hundreds of times more games are played there.
Here's top8 from another premier challenge event. A bit more diverse than the grand finals from the first event but the same general usage patterns persist. Garchomp and Gyarados are the premier offensive threats (though both can run defensive/utility sets, versatility is a big plus since with team preview it makes you a bit harder to predict) which makes intimidate very good. All but one team runs an intimidate, and the team without an intimidate runs a Trace Porygon2 which is just as good in a meta this loaded with intimidate users.
It's still worth paying attention to Showdown over premier events though, IMO the Showdown meta evolves more quickly since hundreds of times more games are played there.
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Nah, I think most places just record the pokemon used. Some of the events are streamed though so if you pay attention to Twitch you can catch them in action.
Included are top8 from events in Chile and Argentina that just came in today.... More diversity in these metas but that's not to say the level of competition is higher considering Eevee cheese won the latter event.
Incineroar being used is quite interesting though as even without intimidate he has a niche in that he can block roar with throat chop even if something faster can counter-taunt him on that turn. I think roar will be pretty much a must for team building in this format since it has higher priority than TR and can be used to get rid of setters, and also lets you get rid of any obnoxious set up cheese like Eeveepassing. It's also pretty good against Celesteela/Maro-A.
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Yo, I came up with the Garchomp/ Celesteela/ Tapu core. Not to brag.
I think a lot of people found it by themselves tbh, since it's such a solid core, and especially Garchomp+Celesteela is very obvious due to Celesteela being immune to EQ. I don't think any one person can claim to be the one that invented it. You might have been one of the earliest, sure, but I'm willing to bet someone used it before you.
You're probably right.
Here's a cool Celesteela set that I've been using recently:
Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
-Heavy Slam
-Fly
-Leech Seed
-Protect
With Fly, you don't have to worry about getting enough speed control to spam Substitute against faster threats; it ensures that Celesteela only gets hit once every three turns, allowing you to easily stall opponents with Leech Seed.
Replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7vgc2017-490002839
Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
-Heavy Slam
-Fly
-Leech Seed
-Protect
With Fly, you don't have to worry about getting enough speed control to spam Substitute against faster threats; it ensures that Celesteela only gets hit once every three turns, allowing you to easily stall opponents with Leech Seed.
Replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7vgc2017-490002839
Can someone give me a framework for a general goodstuff-ish team. I'm not running TR, weather or any cheese in particular
Should I have a build like this:
1 special sweeper (choice spec salamence)
1 physical sweeper (garchomp with EQ)
1 wall (celesteela)
1 tapu (maybe tapu koko to do disquake with garchomp)
1 support (smeargle or something, i dunno yet)
1 counter pokemon (maybe a trickroom counter of some sort like a slow Torkoalor something)
Should I have a build like this:
1 special sweeper (choice spec salamence)
1 physical sweeper (garchomp with EQ)
1 wall (celesteela)
1 tapu (maybe tapu koko to do disquake with garchomp)
1 support (smeargle or something, i dunno yet)
1 counter pokemon (maybe a trickroom counter of some sort like a slow Torkoalor something)
Here it is, my first version of my VGC 17 pokemon team. I'm posting it here and looking forward to anyone's thoughts. (Just a reminder, I'm new but open to all forms of criticism so long it remains constructed).
http://pastebin.com/tx7APJdA
(posted it in pastebin to avoid making this a very long post)
http://pastebin.com/tx7APJdA
(posted it in pastebin to avoid making this a very long post)
You don't want to run Mence with Chomp, that's stacking weaknesses too much imo. Mence is mostly worse in this meta because he relies more on dragon attacks given that he doesn't have access to Aerialate, and there are nasty faeries on every team one of which outspeeds him.
I think the staple 'no gimmicks' core is basically Koko/Gyara/Chomp/A-Wak/Celesteela. 6th pokemon is used as an X factor or counter to some kind of play you find obnoxious to deal with, like an anti-weather or anti-TR mon. A second Tapu is also quite nice to have sometimes.
Toxapex doesn't have the offensive presence to be particularly good in this meta and has a lot to fear from some really popular pokemon like Koko, Lele and Garchomp if it runs Groundium. I'd dump it entirely, if you want a bulky water Gyarados, Milotic, or Gastrodon are going to be more stable choices. The Mimikyu set is mostly good in singles, in doubles, from what I've seen run successfully Mimi is mostly a support mon for TR because of TR/Taunt/STAB priority combo. Red card isn't bad because it can break up cores but you're not gonna get much use out of SD IMO, especially without shadow sneak. I feel you'd be better off running Muk-A or even Gengar here.
As for individual sets, flame charge is asstastic on Celesteela, BP is far too low and most things you're using fire coverage on have more physical bulk anyways. Dump it for flamethrower. Ingrain is redundant, replace with protect.
No wood hammer on Bulu is a mistake, the recoil is painful but because his grass attacks are +1 on terrain you lose a HUGE amount of damage running horn leech instead of it. The entire point of Bulu is just dropping those super wood hammers into things, even things that resist it can be OHKO'd. Consider running Grassium on him over lum berry for a recoil free boosted wood hammer, WoW is going to be a bit rarer in this meta anyways.
Chomp is probably fine, be aware that it gets walled by Bulu unless you carry Poison Jab, of course that makes it much weaker against Celesteela unless you dump protect. Just know that tradeoffs are being made and play accordingly.
Dump Scald and Leech Life on Araquanid and put nothing in those slots if you're going to band it. You never want to use a non-water move on it against anything except water absorb/storm drainers and you don't want to use an uninvested scald over liquidation in most scenarios because liquidation has a defense drop secondary effect which scald won't take advantage of. Araquanid is the one trickiest one trick pony in the meta imo. Arcanine or Maro-A would be more versatile answers to Celesteela.
On what kind of a team could Mence work? Because it's my favourite mon and I wanna make it work. Can he be used for coverage. Can I just use him to replace Chomp in that staple core, and used the 6th mon to deal with some of his weakness?
Also can Arcanine replace A-Wak as the fire based sweeper?
Salamence is great as usual in this meta. Intimidate is an awesome ability for doubles, has a good special movepool (Draco meteor, dragon pulse, fire blast, hydro pump) good power, good speed and a useful ground immunity to boot.
One of the main reasons that Chomp is run everywhere this meta (aside from him being really good in general) is due to his electric immunity, there aren't a lot of great electric immunities in this meta and Tapu Koko is everywhere. Basically you have Chomp, Krookodile, Marowak-A, Togedemaru, Lanturn or Gastrodon, all but Chomp and Marowak-A are kind of niche. On top of that, a lot of ground weak mons like Maro-A, Muk-A, Magnezone, Nihilego, ect. are also really good so you want a strong EQ for them. It's not that Salamence is bad, it's just a less good option that tends to compound weaknesses since he shares most of his weaknesses with Garchomp.
252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Salamence (standard doubles mixed set): 164-192 (96.4 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO (its' still ~20% chance if you run -def or -atk instead)
This is also a major problem for him since obviously Koko outspeeds. Chomp is immune to the electric terrain boosted electric attacks and dazzling gleam does a surprisingly low amount of damage by comparison as it's a split attack and not terrain boosted. People think that Maro-A is just to protect the electric weaks like pelipper, celesteela, gyara, ect. but even neutral thunderbolts are just nasty with terrain boost so using him as a partner for Mence is a decent idea. Another option is leading with another Tapu to trump electric terrain, Lele is good for this.
As far as losing Marowak, you also lose lightningrod support without him which is pretty important to have when running Celesteela/Gyarados, so you'd have to adjust team comp accordingly.
Depends on your set. If its pure physical - adamant. If its special, modest, and if its mixed, then brave/whatever the TR SpA nature is.
I've been experimenting with a tr team with muk, porygon2, tapu lele, gyarados, Marowak, and vikavolt. What do y'all think? I haven't played too many games so far, haven't encountered one Celesteela with this team yet, but it feels pretty strong and won me 3 out of the four games i played.
I think Mimi (assuming you're using him offensively) is best paired with a FO user otherwise disguise is kind of moot in doubles, the main selling point of Mimi is the ability which gives him extra space. Otherwise you'll just lose disguise then get whacked for nothing.
I think TR setter Mimi pairs pretty well with Hariyama right now. Mimi doesn't really care about TR because you can just run shadow sneak to work around the fact that it's a relatively fast pokemon for TR. FO+disguise gives you a turn 1 with minimal pressure, you can stop roars with flinch to get TR off then go to town with guts close combats. The one thing you really need to worry about is Tapu Lele which will get more common as time goes on, I think. She can be dealt with though. If Mimikyu is not focused to death turn one, a 0 investment -speed spread will outslow any non-TR Lele spreads and a 252/+atk shadow claw has a decent chance to OHKO. Still countered by Lele/Roar lead combos but you'll just have to predict that and work around it.
OK, I got a new set
Tapu lele/Garaydos/Celesteela/A-Mok/Salamence/Krookodile
pretty self explanatory
lele deals with koko
Garaydos/celesteela/A-mok standard
Salamence/Krookodile has coverage and earth quake synergy, also double intimidate
Tapu lele/Garaydos/Celesteela/A-Mok/Salamence/Krookodile
pretty self explanatory
lele deals with koko
Garaydos/celesteela/A-mok standard
Salamence/Krookodile has coverage and earth quake synergy, also double intimidate
You're setting yourself up for potential adrenaline orb Milotic problems with three intimidates and no strong grass/electric coverage to power through it. Lele can be outsped and OHKO'd by hydro pump from an offensive set, Gyarados won't win a prolonged fight with it no matter what set either are using. Muk can win against some offensive variants but will lose against most defensive ones.
Hey guys, do you know if there's a giveaway of a 6IV ditto?
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