VGC 2015 Rules

What, because things don't just blow it up in one hit a la everything in VGC 14? Even though it has the same crap damage output as always and steels still take a dump all over it? Stability has to start with something, you know, sometimes you have to think a little before just pressing the win button against things.
 
TBH, M-Mence is better going special on the basis that Intimidate and Will-O-Wisp are so common in doubles. Additionally, that point about special M-Mence sets having nothing to hit Heatran is false:

252 HP Leftovers Heatran:
  • Timid: 252 SpA Mega Salamence Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 102-122 (51.5 - 61.6%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
  • Modest: 252+ SpA Salamence Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 112-132 (56.5 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 HP Heatran:
  • Timid: 252 SpA Salamence Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 102-122 (61 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • Modest: 252+ SpA Salamence Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 112-132 (67 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 HP SitrusTran:
  • Timid: 252 SpA Salamence Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 102-122 (51.5 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
  • Modest: 252+ SpA Salamence Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 112-132 (56.5 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
While those last two calcs aren't so impressive, remember that Heatran can only do squat back if it carries HP Ice. Not that I expect there to be many SitrusTran running around as there are better holders of the item, such as Cresselia and Amoonguss.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not doubting the viability of physical variants; I am simply saying that the special variants are generally better suited to the metagame due to Intimidate and Will-O-Wisp's prevalence. This is why, in my opinion (with strong emphasis on opinion), special variants are better in the format than physical ones.

On a completely separate note, I'm kinda pissed at the lack of Defiant Torny, but what can ya do? Speaking of Defiant, Milotic is shaping up to be decent this time around due to its access to Competitive and better stats than Wiggly and Meowstic-F (lol).

Also yay no RIP for Pachi as pentagon rule means no Follow Me Electivire :]
No one runs Hydro Pump in all honesty on Mega Salamence because you can't really fit it onto the moveslot after Hyper Voice, Fire Blast, and Draco Meteor along with Protect. And also, this is not 1v1. This is 2v2 on the field, but 4v4 for the overall battle. I think it would be way better on the Salamence player's part to have a check for Heatran on its allies and not run the unreliable Hydro Pump to deal with Heatran.

Special Salamence doesn't hit hard enough to justify using it over the physical set. And not to mention you can easily dissaude someone from bringing Intimidate with Defiant/Competitive Pokemon like Bisharp and Milotic. Heatran is also a fantastic Salamence partner for absorbing Will-O-Wisps for it. Guts Pokemon like Conkeldurr can do the job as well.

A rain team with Salamence is actually pretty decent and very threatening in terms of offensive power.
 
What, because things don't just blow it up in one hit a la everything in VGC 14? Even though it has the same crap damage output as always and steels still take a dump all over it? Stability has to start with something, you know, sometimes you have to think a little before just pressing the win button against things.
even with all of that, it still was a core part of VGC 2012 and 2013 strategies because it just did its job so darn well. It didn't need to deal with Steel types because it had amazing teammates like Heatran and it provided the right support to make it work well.
 

Martin

gamer boy
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No one runs Hydro Pump in all honesty on Mega Salamence because you can't really fit it onto the moveslot after Hyper Voice, Fire Blast, and Draco Meteor along with Protect. And also, this is not 1v1. This is 2v2 on the field, but 4v4 for the overall battle. I think it would be way better on the Salamence player's part to have a check for Heatran on its allies and not run the unreliable Hydro Pump to deal with Heatran.
There are two things which you aren't considering here: 4 attack m-mence and ones which opt out of using Fire Blast due to the team having no trouble with Steel-types. The fact is that Salamence really doesn't have 4MSS as two of the moveslots you've listed (Fire Blast and Protect) are really just filler, and are actually safe to change up. You are under the assumption that there isn't variation within sets. You see standards, semi-standards (sets which are similar to the standard but have key differences that make them deal with the matchups of the team better) and non-standards. If you assume that people don't stray from the norm at all, you can't say that you are prepared for the metagame, and the same applies if you refuse to do so. SpecMence is one of those Pokemon which thrives on having multiple options which it can run effectively, and it allows it to thrive on its ability to not be crippled by two of the most influential things in the metagames more effectively than if you fail to notice that. Add onto this the fact that its main STAB attack hits both opponents with a 131 BP move after STAB and the drop from spread attacks (90*1.3*1.5*0.75=131.625=131 (because GF round down non-whole numbers for everything in this game for whatever reason)) that ignores substitutes and can't be weakened by Intimidate or Will-O-Wisp.
Special Salamence doesn't hit hard enough to justify using it over the physical set. And not to mention you can easily dissaude someone from bringing Intimidate with Defiant/Competitive Pokemon like Bisharp and Milotic. Heatran is also a fantastic Salamence partner for absorbing Will-O-Wisps for it. Guts Pokemon like Conkeldurr can do the job as well.
If special mence doesn't hit enough to justify its use over the physical set explain VGC'14... Additionally, even if you DO dissuade someone from the use of Intimidate, doesn't mean that they aren't going to use it anyway simply due to how powerful physical m-mence is and the fact that you can't have your Defiant/Competitive 'mon on the field alongside Mence at all times. And the Hetran/Conk will-o-wisp absorption idea is flawed as soon as you consider that Heatran and Conk tend to work well when out alongside M-Mence due to beating Steel-types for it, therefore meaning that you can't actually use them to absorb Will-O-Wisps for you as they are already on the field. If anything, this point further supports the use of the special set, not because of any of the point's I've made yet, but because it demonstrates that physical m-mence needs more support than the special set to function effectively, and that this support is actually rather unreliable.
 
If special mence doesn't hit enough to justify its use over the physical set explain VGC'14... Additionally, even if you DO dissuade someone from the use of Intimidate, doesn't mean that they aren't going to use it anyway simply due to how powerful physical m-mence is and the fact that you can't have your Defiant/Competitive 'mon on the field alongside Mence at all times. And the Hetran/Conk will-o-wisp absorption idea is flawed as soon as you consider that Heatran and Conk tend to work well when out alongside M-Mence due to beating Steel-types for it, therefore meaning that you can't actually use them to absorb Will-O-Wisps for you as they are already on the field. If anything, this point further supports the use of the special set, not because of any of the point's I've made yet, but because it demonstrates that physical m-mence needs more support than the special set to function effectively, and that this support is actually rather unreliable.
I would assume that what he means is that, the way the meta seems to be taking shape that special attacker mega-mence isn't as strong as a physical or mixed set. Last 'season' special attacker mence was the stronger of the two options. Who knows, maybe next year sp attack mega-mence will be the stronger option to run.
 
There are two things which you aren't considering here: 4 attack m-mence and ones which opt out of using Fire Blast due to the team having no trouble with Steel-types. The fact is that Salamence really doesn't have 4MSS as two of the moveslots you've listed (Fire Blast and Protect) are really just filler, and are actually safe to change up. You are under the assumption that there isn't variation within sets. You see standards, semi-standards (sets which are similar to the standard but have key differences that make them deal with the matchups of the team better) and non-standards. If you assume that people don't stray from the norm at all, you can't say that you are prepared for the metagame, and the same applies if you refuse to do so. SpecMence is one of those Pokemon which thrives on having multiple options which it can run effectively, and it allows it to thrive on its ability to not be crippled by two of the most influential things in the metagames more effectively than if you fail to notice that. Add onto this the fact that its main STAB attack hits both opponents with a 131 BP move after STAB and the drop from spread attacks (90*1.3*1.5*0.75=131.625=131 (because GF round down non-whole numbers for everything in this game for whatever reason)) that ignores substitutes and can't be weakened by Intimidate or Will-O-Wisp.

If special mence doesn't hit enough to justify its use over the physical set explain VGC'14... Additionally, even if you DO dissuade someone from the use of Intimidate, doesn't mean that they aren't going to use it anyway simply due to how powerful physical m-mence is and the fact that you can't have your Defiant/Competitive 'mon on the field alongside Mence at all times. And the Hetran/Conk will-o-wisp absorption idea is flawed as soon as you consider that Heatran and Conk tend to work well when out alongside M-Mence due to beating Steel-types for it, therefore meaning that you can't actually use them to absorb Will-O-Wisps for you as they are already on the field. If anything, this point further supports the use of the special set, not because of any of the point's I've made yet, but because it demonstrates that physical m-mence needs more support than the special set to function effectively, and that this support is actually rather unreliable.
1) No one runs Mega Salamence without Protect. If you don't, then you're opening yourself up for so many attacks and well, you lose your mega to the common coverage options to hit it.

2) Choiced Salamence although really rare at this point, it's is not that relevant anymore. Locking yourself into a move against the common Sylveon and with so many bulky Pokemon that you can't really OHKO, it's just not worth running anymore for that reason.

3) You can't just compare 2014 and 2015 metagames that easily. 2014 was really bad for Bisharp and the only other Intimidate dissuader was the highly situational Wigglytuff.

4) Hyper Voice doesn't hit hard enough. Bring some calcs to prove your point that Hyper Voice hits hard enough on things relevant in this 2015 metagame that Physical Salamence can't beat.

5) Wide Guard is becoming really really common because people are spamming Sylveon in Tailwind. Not to mention Disquake teams still being around. Hyper Voice Salamence won't like that and even if you run Fire Blast for Aegislash, it's really easy to EV Aegislash to survive the most powerful special attacks and pop a Weakness Policy.

I am not really convinced that special Salamence is more justified to run over physical because honestly, the special set takes up way more moves to make it work whereas physical only really needs one attack for most things to get obliterated.
 
I'm personally excited for Whimsicott being legalized again.
Worry Seed feels like an unexpected counter against things like mega mence, khan, glalie, altaria, mawile, etc...
 
Because they can literally fit on any team and do large amounts of damage to a lot of threats, not to mention that they are huge threats themselves ._.
This is just not true, as of yet neither of them have any place being walls, therefor they do not fit on every team.While Salamence out speeds the majority of it's competition it can still be taken down. In Addition as the Over-Used tier stands Landorus-Therian is easily walled by a good Gliscore. EDIT: unless your actually using Gliscore in uu XD
 
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Martin

gamer boy
is a Forum Moderatoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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This is just not true, as of yet neither of them have any place being walls, therefor they do not fit on every team.While Salamence out speeds the majority of it's competition it can still be taken down. In Addition as the Over-Used tier stands Landorus-Therian is easily walled by a good Gliscore. EDIT: unless your actually using Gliscore in uu XD
But this isn't OU...
 
How does one participate in the VGC?
I have gotten a bit interested and i want to know how to participate in it.
VGC is a battle format. You can practice in PokemonShowdown.com or in Pokemon Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire. There are also tournament locations in real life where you can travel to and participate (Note: You will need to battle using the actual Pokemon Game. In this case Pokemon Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire) . There are also some tournaments online where you can participate for practice such as on Smogon, Nugget Bridge, etc.
 

Ice Cold Yee Haw

formerly Cooly23
VGC is a battle format. You can practice in PokemonShowdown.com or in Pokemon Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire. There are also tournament locations in real life where you can travel to and participate (Note: You will need to battle using the actual Pokemon Game. In this case Pokemon Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire) . There are also some tournaments online where you can participate for practice such as on Smogon, Nugget Bridge, etc.
Thanks
 
Is Kabutops legal in VGC 15? I am wondering because the rules posted here say nothing about it, but the Team Magma Team Builder lists it as illegal.

(Please, I know it's not a "viable" pokémon for the format, but it's my favorite so I'll give it a try)
 
Is Kabutops legal in VGC 15? I am wondering because the rules posted here say nothing about it, but the Team Magma Team Builder lists it as illegal.

(Please, I know it's not a "viable" pokémon for the format, but it's my favorite so I'll give it a try)
Kabutop is legal, as a physical Swift Swim mon it has some viability. If you have already delegated your mega slot to something other Swampert I can see it being alright though I wouldn't use both, although it would incredibly niche and need a fair amount of support. Rain, Safe Guard, et cetera.
 
Kabutop is legal, as a physical Swift Swim mon it has some viability. If you have already delegated your mega slot to something other Swampert I can see it being alright though I wouldn't use both, although it would incredibly niche and need a fair amount of support. Rain, Safe Guard, et cetera.
Got it! Yeah, I know it's kind of a gimicky-niche mon, but I love it so much and bred for so long to get a shiny one, that I really need to try it out.
Thanks anyways!

EDIT: And I love the idea of a Swift Swim boosted STAB Rock Slide.. All the flinches *--*
 
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