VGC 2015 Rules

[idiotfrommars]

This meta should be really fun. It's looking like it will be a mixture of the top Pokemon from VGC 2013 and all the megas and new Pokemon that were released this gen. I think Salamence, Metagross, and Mawile are going to be extremely strong megas in this format. I don't think that Kangaskhan is going to stay at the top, since their will be even more intimidate in this meta, and megas like the previously mentioned mence and gross are going to outspeed it and threaten it, while being extremely common.

 

[Xen]

Looking good. My only two gripes with the pentagon rule is that Sheer Force Landorus is illegal, and it's gonna be a major pain in the ass to get a decent HP Ice Thundurus as opposed to just RNGing one.

Beyond that, looks like this'll be a fun year. It'll be interesting to see M-khan's usage drop with the surge of Intimidate/M-Mence.

 

[waterise]

Any thoughts on Trick Room? I find it really good in this meta with all these fast mons and tailwind offense being a really popular playstyle. I'm excited to test out Adaptability Dragalge lol; it worked for me in the Smogdubs ladder so i'm curious as to see how well it'll fair in VGC.

I think Trick Room is just stupid. Period.

 

[waterise]

Thank you Nintendo for not making it Hoenn dex exclusive, that would have been just awful.

Meanwhile its time to find ways to beat Salamence ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

EDIT: Oh yeah can we all agree not to use DV smeargle

Why does everyone bitch about M-Salamence? It can get OHKO'd by Pokemon...it's not that strong or hard to beat.

 

[Heliosan]

Why does everyone bitch about M-Salamence? It can get OHKO'd by Pokemon...it's not that strong or hard to beat.

Salamence isn't that easily OHKO'd especially if you run redirection with it. Even so, I think Salamence is slightly overrated because it really dislikes Icy Wind which is a common move and there are quite a few bulky Pokemon that can get that move and help nullify Salamence's threat along with the ever common Intimidate options.

I would say the top tier megas would still be Kangaskhan and Mawile along with Salamence and Metagross joining that party. Camerupt is an okay mega for Trick Room, but it really needs TR to be effective. Mega Gallade is an interesting anti-meta option, but like Mega Lucario, it is very frail and needs a little more support than other megas to work effectively.

Swampert is an interesting Swift Swim mega, but it speed ties Ludicolo and Kingdra will hit harder on most things and isn't dissuaded by Intimidate and Will-O-Wisp. It does have the perk of being immune to Thunder Wave and other Electric moves, but it essentially needs Talonflame in order to beat Amoonguss and Mega Venusaur.

It's a shame that Sheer Force Landorus-I is illegal along with Defiant Tornadus and Thundurus, but whatever. Still will be a fun metagame in my opinion.

 

[Heliosan]

It's too bad we can't unleash the true power of our shaymans this year

Shaymin is unfortunately an event legend, so I don't think they'll ever make it legal. Tis a shame cuz Shaymin-Sky solves so many teams' problems in Smogon Doubles.

 

[Heliosan]

Any thoughts on Trick Room? I find it really good in this meta with all these fast mons and tailwind offense being a really popular playstyle. I'm excited to test out Adaptability Dragalge lol; it worked for me in the Smogdubs ladder so i'm curious as to see how well it'll fair in VGC.

Trick Room is still a really good option simply because Cresselia is back, but there are a lot more ways to beat it too. Aegislash and the Knock Off buff (hello Bisharp) make Cresselia's job harder to accomplish, but it's still a very effective Pokemon at what it is known to do best. Camerupt and Steelix offer some new options, but I still think Mawile is the superior mega for Trick Room.

Dragalge is a very interesting Pokemon and could see some usage, just have something to beat Mega Mawile cuz it gets walled by that.

 

[JTrainer]

It's been a while since I've posted anything here....

Anyway, the pentagon rule itself isn't really that big a deal ordinarily, not for me anyway since I really only enter tournaments if it's for a rare item (like the custap berry). It's when people only battle by those rules even outside of tournaments and stubbornly refuse to battle any non-pentagon pokemon that it gets really annoying.

 

[Mymble]

Why does everyone bitch about M-Salamence? It can get OHKO'd by Pokemon...it's not that strong or hard to beat.

Mega Salamence is ridiculously versatile being able to play full physical, full special, mixed, or Dragon Dance (as well as non-Mega options), and these are the only the obvious ones. On top of that it has support value in Intimidate and Tailwind. Outside of being very difficult to prepare for in team preview, the part where you say Mega Salamence isn't strong is just plain wrong 145 base Attack and 120 Special Attack is absolutely nothing to be snuffed at. While Aerilate only boosts that further, combined with a 120 base Speed it only gets better as it will move before most other Pokemon. While an individual set may not be too hard to counter, these counters are very specific and can be prepared for easily. In short Mega Salamence ain't nothing to fuck with.

I think Trick Room is just stupid. Period.

I think full Trick Room hasn't been truly viable since VGC 12, however, Trick Room as a mode which you can switch to if the opponents team is too fast has been and will stay viable. With best of three sets, the ability to switch between a standard or Trick Room mode is super beneficial to catch your opponent of guard.

 

[AGES]

Why does everyone bitch about M-Salamence? It can get OHKO'd by Pokemon...it's not that strong or hard to beat.

Adding on to what Chenkovsky said Mence is a pretty tough guy. Last I heard 90/130/90 defenses were damn nice for a pokemon with so much raw speed and power, especially physically which only gets better through Intimidate, either its own or its partner's. Yeah sure plenty of ice moves are going to take it down but unlike other hard hitting pokemon like Charizard Y for example its not going to be picked off by rock slides too easily.
252+ Atk Landorus-T Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 62-74 (36.2 - 43.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - (Doubles Setting)

 

[Xlstevo]

VGC 2015 is now a playable format on Pokemon Showdown! Looking forward to a great year of competitive battling. Also looking forward to using Heatran!

 

[xJoelituh]

MegaMence with HyperVoice it's pretty decent, I tryed in my own and it goes so well, everyone gets surprised when it's special.
Talking about Thundurus... softreseting to get him with HP Ice, Nature, and good ivs.. jesuus... That's painfull.
Even with the HP Ice it's gonna be difficult to do something against Mence :/
I Mean, Thundurus or sash or will get rekt anyway.

Happens the same against Lando-T

Hide

252 SpA Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 148-176 (87 - 103.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO <--- ¿252 SpA to a chance to OHKO a 0/0 Mence?
252 SpA Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 160-192 (97.5 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO < -- The Same before.. ¿Max out to try to faint it?

 

[Heliosan]

MegaMence with HyperVoice it's pretty decent, I tryed in my own and it goes so well, everyone gets surprised when it's special.
Talking about Thundurus... softreseting to get him with HP Ice, Nature, and good ivs.. jesuus... That's painfull.
Even with the HP Ice it's gonna be difficult to do something against Mence :/
I Mean, Thundurus or sash or will get rekt anyway.

Happens the same against Lando-T

Hide

252 SpA Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 148-176 (87 - 103.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO <--- ¿252 SpA to a chance to OHKO a 0/0 Mence?
252 SpA Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 160-192 (97.5 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO < -- The Same before.. ¿Max out to try to faint it?

Special Salamence isn't that great in my opinion because it doesn't hit nearly as hard as it would on the physical side. All of its special moves get walled by Heatran. People are also starting to run Wide Guard Aegislash and whatnot because Sylveon is a problem at the moment. Mixed or physical is probably the best way to go for Salamence. I ran physical Mega Salamence to peak at #3 on the Battle Spot Doubles ladder.

Proof:

Also, I wouldn't rely on Thundurus HP Ice to KO Salamence. Icy Wind on a bulky Pokemon adds speed control for your slower Pokemon to take out faster threats and it puts pressure on the Salamence player to either Protect, Dragon Dance, or switch out to something else to take the Icy Wind.

Salamence is not as broken as some people are making it to be. There is no such thing as Jirachi + Salamence in VGC.

 

[GiraGoomy]

Special Salamence isn't that great in my opinion because it doesn't hit nearly as hard as it would on the physical side. All of its special moves get walled by Heatran. People are also starting to run Wide Guard Aegislash and whatnot because Sylveon is a problem at the moment. Mixed or physical is probably the best way to go for Salamence. I ran physical Mega Salamence to peak at #3 on the Battle Spot Doubles ladder.

Proof:

View attachment 31877

Also, I wouldn't rely on Thundurus HP Ice to KO Salamence. Icy Wind on a bulky Pokemon adds speed control for your slower Pokemon to take out faster threats and it puts pressure on the Salamence player to either Protect, Dragon Dance, or switch out to something else to take the Icy Wind.

Salamence is not as broken as some people are making it to be. There is no such thing as Jirachi + Salamence in VGC.

I still don't like Salamence + Excadrill, or even Salamence + Lucario or Salamence + Amoonguss. Although it's not as broken as some people think, just stating the fact that you should never under-estimate it or teambuild without having a real solid answer for it.

 

[Heliosan]

I still don't like Salamence + Excadrill, or even Salamence + Lucario or Salamence + Amoonguss. Although it's not as broken as some people think, just stating the fact that you should never under-estimate it or teambuild without having a real solid answer for it.

Yeah for sure! Not building with Salamence in mind is asking for trouble. It's pretty good, but definitely overhyped.

 

[Martin]

Special Salamence isn't that great in my opinion because it doesn't hit nearly as hard as it would on the physical side. All of its special moves get walled by Heatran. People are also starting to run Wide Guard Aegislash and whatnot because Sylveon is a problem at the moment. Mixed or physical is probably the best way to go for Salamence. I ran physical Mega Salamence to peak at #3 on the Battle Spot Doubles ladder.

Proof:

View attachment 31877

Also, I wouldn't rely on Thundurus HP Ice to KO Salamence. Icy Wind on a bulky Pokemon adds speed control for your slower Pokemon to take out faster threats and it puts pressure on the Salamence player to either Protect, Dragon Dance, or switch out to something else to take the Icy Wind.

Salamence is not as broken as some people are making it to be. There is no such thing as Jirachi + Salamence in VGC.

TBH, M-Mence is better going special on the basis that Intimidate and Will-O-Wisp are so common in doubles. Additionally, that point about special M-Mence sets having nothing to hit Heatran is false:

252 HP Leftovers Heatran:

• Timid: 252 SpA Mega Salamence Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 102-122 (51.5 - 61.6%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
• Modest: 252+ SpA Salamence Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 112-132 (56.5 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 HP Heatran:

• Timid: 252 SpA Salamence Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 102-122 (61 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• Modest: 252+ SpA Salamence Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 112-132 (67 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 HP SitrusTran:

• Timid: 252 SpA Salamence Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 102-122 (51.5 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
• Modest: 252+ SpA Salamence Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 112-132 (56.5 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery

While those last two calcs aren't so impressive, remember that Heatran can only do squat back if it carries HP Ice. Not that I expect there to be many SitrusTran running around as there are better holders of the item, such as Cresselia and Amoonguss.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not doubting the viability of physical variants; I am simply saying that the special variants are generally better suited to the metagame due to Intimidate and Will-O-Wisp's prevalence. This is why, in my opinion (with strong emphasis on opinion), special variants are better in the format than physical ones.

On a completely separate note, I'm kinda pissed at the lack of Defiant Torny, but what can ya do? Speaking of Defiant, Milotic is shaping up to be decent this time around due to its access to Competitive and better stats than Wiggly and Meowstic-F (lol).

Also yay no RIP for Pachi as pentagon rule means no Follow Me Electivire :]

 

[Novus Canis]

And where is Victini on that list. I waish to know if I can use her or not...

 

[Professor Birch]

And where is Victini on that list. I waish to know if I can use her or not...

You cannot

 

[Novus Canis]

Thank you

 

[Fakir]

*sigh*, Cress + Heatran still in the format ;-;

 

[Xtreme $Hassio]

This VGC are fully of Uber Pokes (Except legendarys), M-Salamence needs to be banned

 

[Taliheim]

This VGC are fully of Uber Pokes (Except legendarys), M-Salamence needs to be banned

There is no banning in VGC.

 

[ProjectTitan313]

You know, I really liked VGC 2014. There was no Heatran.
But.. this is a fun looking variety of Pokémon nonetheless. I'm a die-hard hater of Thundurus and Heatran, but on the other hand, things like Mesprit, Arcanine, Milotic, and Regirock are fair game now... Hmm, all things considered, I think I'll like it. I may even go batshit insane and make a team without Drought. Maybe. I'm approaching like, 4 years straight of Drought and that's probably a record, but with things like MegaMence, Heatran, and Terrakion being legal, MegaZard-Y + Garchomp might not be the chainsaw-to-your-asshole it was last season.
I am going to go insane over this. Utterly insane. Are there any PGL Internationals with VGC rules coming up (Like the April and May 2014 Internationals)?

There is no banning in VGC.

Nonsense, they've continued to safeguard us from the Wrath of Phione. MegaMence is fine; its Phione we should be thankful to be spared from.

 

[Pyritie]

You know, I really liked VGC 2014. There was no Heatran.
But.. this is a fun looking variety of Pokémon nonetheless. I'm a die-hard hater of Thundurus and Heatran, but on the other hand, things like Mesprit, Arcanine, Milotic, and Regirock are fair game now... Hmm, all things considered, I think I'll like it. I may even go batshit insane and make a team without Drought. Maybe. I'm approaching like, 4 years straight of Drought and that's probably a record, but with things like MegaMence, Heatran, and Terrakion being legal, MegaZard-Y + Garchomp might not be the chainsaw-to-your-asshole it was last season.
I am going to go insane over this. Utterly insane. Are there any PGL Internationals with VGC rules coming up (Like the April and May 2014 Internationals)?

I haven't seen any announced yet, but remember the standard battle spot doubles is the same as VGC if you want people to play against.

 

[ProjectTitan313]

I haven't seen any announced yet, but remember the standard battle spot doubles is the same as VGC if you want people to play against.

Wait, really? Pentagon rule and all?