I personally don't think the Ogerpon forms are good enough to break previous pokemon that ruled the meta
Do both forms of Urshifu count towards the same Pokemon?By the way, here are the usage stats for Day 2 at Lillie!
View attachment 564159
coming back to haunt you, guys, seriously run switch ins.
seems no where to be seen and
remains strong, interesting.
making a comeback standing as a Top 4 mon (in usage). What catches my eye though, nothing hits 50%, everything in general seems to be less dominant. Thoughts?
No, Urshifu Dark just didn't get enough usage to be among the Top 12Do both forms of Urshifu count towards the same Pokemon?
A mon isen't immediately invalidated by the existence of a counter. OtherwiseSame. I honestly thought that ursh water really fell off a cliff with ogerpon running around, especially the wellspring mask because it has water absorb.
You can't target the other opponent with water moves due to water absorb, and you really have to be careful when switching because if you always swap out of that matchup in maybe a Bo3, they'll catch on and play against you. Plus, Urshifu isn't really useful since it's forced into Choice Scarf, which most Lando T run. Also, if you don't U-turn, you just get OHKO'd by horn leech or wood hammer.A mon isen't immediately invalidated by the existence of a counter. Otherwisewould be a lot better lol.
You gotta consider that its not a 1v1 betweenand
, Theres 2 other mons on the field. At a minimum you can target its partner, or switch out. When im playing against an
its not an instant loss, I just have to play a bit better and make some reads. I mean with adamant scarf you deal a good 60-70% with CC and U turn.
Also, you forget that one of the premier partners for Urshifu,has a super effective move into
, taunt, and is 1 point faster than it.
Forgot to mention, but if you just run Torn in a Bo3 setting (what I mostly play) they will counter that and maybe either force out the Torn or take it out.A mon isen't immediately invalidated by the existence of a counter. Otherwisewould be a lot better lol.
You gotta consider that its not a 1v1 betweenand
, Theres 2 other mons on the field. At a minimum you can target its partner, or switch out. When im playing against an
its not an instant loss, I just have to play a bit better and make some reads. I mean with adamant scarf you deal a good 60-70% with CC and U turn.
Also, you forget that one of the premier partners for Urshifu,has a super effective move into
, taunt, and is 1 point faster than it.
Dark and Grass are the best rn, one forWhat Tera type do you guys think of for Dusclops? Just wondering because I really want to prove how good Dusclops is. I know we've got Cresselia and Sinistcha, but I really enjoy using this dude for Trick Room teams.
Toronto starts tomorrow, I’m gonna talk about meta trends and what I’m seeing on Showdown.
First off, there is a lot of, snow seems to be the most dominant weather right now(At least for automatic weather, aka Drought, Drizzle, Snow Warning, etc.) and
+
seems to be a very strong weather composition. I’m surprised that we haven’t seen more
come to the fray, it synergizes well with
. Though I guess losing Scald hurt it a little bit.
is making a comeback, I guess there is some Pokémon Championships History happening right now. Mostly next to
, of course. And I’ve also seen some
+
shenanigans as well. The only problem with Dragonite is
but it can just Tera that away.
I‘ve said it once, I’ll say it again.is a very good anti meta pick. Final Gambit is busted and the ability to outspeed Choice Scarf
with its own Choice Scarf is very nice for speed control. The fact that it can easily set up Tailwind because of this is also amazing. The only problem with it is that it’s extremely frail, however, you’re probably ok with that considering it kinda has only 2 jobs: Tailwind and Final Gambit(Which will KO you anyway) And it gets Intimidate, forgot about that. So I guess it has another job.
Finally, we need to talk about.
had been a very dominant mon in Reg D. However, due to new toy syndrome as well as
,
dropped off a ton in usage. However, it’s making a return, looking at both the usage stats for Lille and Showdown in general.
is higher up there than we expected it to be. It’s just so hard to switch into and Spore is just such a broken move that you still need to have
on your radar at all times.
Well, that’s it. Thoughts?
Well first of all your only stopped by follow me from Oger, which can conveniently be prevented from clicking it by taunt from tornadus. Most ogres run horn leech and it’s not possible to ohko urshifu if you want any semblance of bulk.You can't target the other opponent with water moves due to water absorb, and you really have to be careful when switching because if you always swap out of that matchup in maybe a Bo3, they'll catch on and play against you. Plus, Urshifu isn't really useful since it's forced into Choice Scarf, which most Lando T run. Also, if you don't U-turn, you just get OHKO'd by horn leech or wood hammer.
Thak you so much!Dark and Grass are the best rn, one forand the other for
. Depends on weather you have redirection or fake out support and which matchup you're more comfortable into.
But what if they are running offensive oger wellspring? What if they're good into the matchup? What if they run wood hammer instead of horn leach? Or maybe they read the taunt, tera water, and either do massive damage to your torn, or just straight up kill it? Even though you can play around it, I fell that there are better Pokemon for this interaction.Well first of all your only stopped by follow me from Oger, which can conveniently be prevented from clicking it by taunt from tornadus. Most ogres run horn leech and it’s not possible to ohko urshifu if you want any semblance of bulk.
If I lead tornadus urshifu into an oger there are 2 scenarios - oger is led, or it’s in the back. If it’s in the back, easy. CC bleakwind, u turn bleak wind, taunt u turn, tailwind u turn, etc all work as options. Even a switch is super safe because most of the time oger will either follow me, wasting its turn or horn leech the urshifu slot, giving me an easy switch in my to a resist. If oger is in the back, there’s an almost guaranteed chance something will switch into it. Which is also fine, it allows me to set up with tailwind or get free chip damage into it, or u turn into some thing else with the less damage coming in. I can even make the read and go for surging. Just because a problematic mon is there doesn’t immediately invalidate something. If I see Ogerpon wellspring, it makes my life harder for sure but I can definitely play around it and I have ways to counter it. There are no hard checks in vgc, there are always ways to play around things and other strategies you can use to support your team
Sorry for bad grammar and no icons, I’m on mobile :/
76+ Atk Ogerpon-Wellspring Wood Hammer (1.2x Mask Boost) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Urshifu-Rapid Strike: 224-266 (127.2 - 151.1%) -- guaranteed OHKOWell first of all your only stopped by follow me from Oger, which can conveniently be prevented from clicking it by taunt from tornadus. Most ogres run horn leech and it’s not possible to ohko urshifu if you want any semblance of bulk.
If I lead tornadus urshifu into an oger there are 2 scenarios - oger is led, or it’s in the back. If it’s in the back, easy. CC bleakwind, u turn bleak wind, taunt u turn, tailwind u turn, etc all work as options. Even a switch is super safe because most of the time oger will either follow me, wasting its turn or horn leech the urshifu slot, giving me an easy switch in my to a resist. If oger is in the back, there’s an almost guaranteed chance something will switch into it. Which is also fine, it allows me to set up with tailwind or get free chip damage into it, or u turn into some thing else with the less damage coming in. I can even make the read and go for surging. Just because a problematic mon is there doesn’t immediately invalidate something. If I see Ogerpon wellspring, it makes my life harder for sure but I can definitely play around it and I have ways to counter it. There are no hard checks in vgc, there are always ways to play around things and other strategies you can use to support your team
Sorry for bad grammar and no icons, I’m on mobile :/
At leastis just kinda useless.
outclasses it in mostly every way except for some support moves and perish, which isen't worth giving up the speed, flying coverage, and tailwind.
Why usewhen you can use
and
to just kill everything or even banded
, that way you still keep tons of damage and coverage without dying.
When you sayI assume you mean all Ogers?
is still in my mind very strong, the presence of Ogerpon and
does not immediately invalidate it. I think its harder to position and certainly not good into every match up but still I think its got a role in the meta game
Well if your running offensiveBut what if they are running offensive oger wellspring? What if they're good into the matchup? What if they run wood hammer instead of horn leach? Or maybe they read the taunt, tera water, and either do massive damage to your torn, or just straight up kill it? Even though you can play around it, I fell that there are better Pokemon for this interaction.
At leastis very defensively oriented and can set up rain automatically when in
’s case it has to use a move to set it up. And Torn‘s main priority is Tailwind anyways, with
you don’t need to worry about these things.
I think calling it 'good' is a stretch. It fills specific niches butand
both don’t get Intimidate. Plus,
has that AND Tailwind AND Final Gambit. So while it is a little niche, I stand by the fact that it’s a good anti meta mon in this format.
Yes, I do mean all Ogers. And I agree with your point on,
doesn’t completely invalidate it and
was still lower usage than it to begin with. My main point on invalidation was redirection,
is much better than it at doing this and sometimes even
as well. All Ogerpon forms(sans Wellspring) are so offensive oriented that only 3 or 4 moves will probably knock it out, so Follow Me isn’t used as much on Ogerpon than on say Indeedee.
Ogerpon goat grass type IMOYesdoes indeed have things going for it, I think the main thing is that hard rain is pretty poor into Wellspring and you gain more value from
as a rain setter because it threatens the common Grass types. Tailwind and Wide Guard are also a lot better than Perish and Encore in this meta imo. It's harder to fit into a team when the meta is really offensive, you'd have to run a more defensive team which doesn't abuse rain and it probably crumbles
's usage as of now.
I'd also like to mentionwins the weather war and has the option to set rain or tailwind first depending on the opposing team, the versatility generally makes it preferable. But tbf
isn't as good on hard rain teams and is Strongest on semi rain teams using
and
.
I think calling it 'good' is a stretch. It fills specific niches butand
being so dominant makes it harder to justify
. While worth it, locking into Tailwind isn't as ideal and I feel like it's very restricted by its Choice Scarf. For example, Prankster vs Final Gambit makes Torn preferred on most HO, while
's typing and bulk along with access to rock slide allowing it to function as a pivot is more valuable for balance comps than the trading Final Gambit or Speed control tailwind. May need a specific team built around it and while I think it's viable, I'm not sure how far it can go
This is what I currently hard disagree with. Excluding' other tools, I consider it a better redirector than the pokemon mentioned.
can't redirect
either but it is now weak to instead of resists
, The dark and ghost weaknesses are also more impactful than the psychic weakness
has imo, as it only struggles into psyspam where Sinistcha drops either way.
has a place but is generally outclassed by
outside of Psyspam, mainly because of
. I think if you're looking for a redirector you'd probably not look at Indeedee and
is a preferable pick for now
Ogerpon forms do indeed not need many turns to knock it out, but VGC is very fast paced and even one or 2 turns can be enough to remove the Ogerpon. I think their main disadvantage is that mostrun a partner like
or
who pressure the grass types, and when they Tera out of their weakness, they're vulnerable to a crucial turn or 2 of redirection.
I'm a big believer in it honestly and argue It's the best Grass type right now. This is notably also just my opinion, feel free to criticise me.
Fair take, I think the two forms, Amoonguss, and Rillaboom are all superb right now
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Toronto Day 2 Results! I'd say all of these stats are very interesting.on top?
being brought down to
's and
' usage?
getting 1.5x as more common?
showing again?
actually struggling? Nothing over 50% even if the 12th pokemon has 20% Usage
Thoughts??