BlueRay
Samtendo09
Samtendo09
-
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Pet Mod VGC 20XX [2.3 - Field Conditions]
- Thread starter Sugarbear
- Start date
Update:
I've just submitted a pull-request. Meaning once it's accepted and implemented, this PetMod will be playable very soon. There are some things I should note, however:
I've just submitted a pull-request. Meaning once it's accepted and implemented, this PetMod will be playable very soon. There are some things I should note, however:
- the ability Malignant currently works like this: If the initial, intended target used Protect, even if the target's ally did not use Protect, that ally will not be affected by the attacker's status move. If the initial, intended target did not use Protect but its ally did, the ally will still be affected by the attacker's status move. So, Malignant seems to first pay attention to whether or not the initial, intended target used Protect before the attacker's single target status move is changed into a move that affects all opposing Pokémon. It's possible that if the move missed, the ally might also avoid it but I have yet to test this interaction to confirm my suspicion.
- as for the ability Selfish, indirect damage generally does not seem to include stuff like Curse or Belly Drum; it's also why Magic Guard user still loose HP if they were to click one of these moves. So, I had to modify Curse and Belly Drum to make the ally receive damage. It's possible there are other moves that are as "problematic" as Curse or Belly Drum. Let me know if you are aware of any other move. In any case, Selfish should work properly and as intended.
- I'm unable to code the move Passive Aggressive; it's a little bit too convoluted/complex with my limited coding skills. While I'm at it, I'm unable to modify Emergency Exit, making it work after the user used the move when its HP is brought down to 50% or below as the relevant coding part is hard coded and located elsewhere than usual and across different sections I'm not used to. So, if you have any ideas as to how to solve these two issues or come up with an alternate suggestion on how they should work, feel free to let me know. Anyway, I guess I could simplify Emergency Exit but it would likely miss out on many other complex interactions it has with recoil, pivot moves, Sheer Force, etc. Or we leave out Emergency Exit since Golisopod's Armor Piercer is a strong ability itself. And it's hard to justify not using it. Let me know what you think.
- the names of the legendary Ghost quartet are too long. I'd suggest a shorter name unless the submitter is actually fine with the names not being fully displayed.
- since Brine is buffed to 75 BP, are there any issues if, in the next patch, I were to raise Matokoda's signature move Anguish Cry from 55 BP to 65 BP instead?
- it's possible I might have forgotten to include Protect / Substitute / Sleep Talk /etc. for some of our custom Pokémon or that I spelled a move / ability wrong. If you spot any of these mistakes or oversights, let me know. On that note, it's also possible I might have forgotten to include any other custom element since there are so many to begin with. Don't hesitate and point them out to me.
- on the Google spreadsheet, I noticed a slight misunderstanding when it comes to Ancient Core. Dark Pulse is already a special move. So, with Dark already having the special move category, this move won't be boosted. However, Crunch--normally, a physical move--would change its category to special, thereby gaining the power boost. So, only if a move category switch occurs will the power boost be applied. Using Dark Pulse as an example on the sheet could be misleading.
- I took the liberty to enforce Bo3, especially since there's supposed to be a tournament in the (near) future. If you do not like the Bo3 feature, let me know, and I'll remove it in the next patch.
- If you have any sprites you want me to add, let me know. Though, I won't resize or anything like that since I've never done / modified sprites myself before. Iirc, the proper size would be 64x64.
- On a final note, if you suggest any returning Pokémon that are not present in gen 9, it might not be a bad idea to closely look at their movepool and add moves that they either lost or that they would benefit from. While Vespiquen can be found in Paldea, I noticed it lost Tailwind... Which is surprising because it learns it in gen 7. A Pokémon like Delcatty is a lot weaker without any access to Body Slam or Double-Edge anymore, to give an actual example. Not that it would need them. It's just sth. to keep in mind.
- Oh, I forgot to mention that while I have yet to build a competitive team, some of the Pokémon I used to test my coding left a strong impression. Wizareetin-Gravelord (Electric/Ghost) is crazily strong, even capable of 2HKOing Snorlax with Choice Specs Conductive Spell, an 80 BP move, iirc. It remains to be seen whether it and/or the move itself require a nerf, especially with Ground Pokémon afraid of switching into it. On another note, Magikite (Flying) is also pretty strong. Flying Dive + Wind Rider or what have you is an incredibly strong combination, and Magikite could always run Sky Plate or Choice Band. Not even sth as sturdy as Keisberg (Ice/Steel) wants to switch into a Flying move. Will see if it needs a nerf but in any case, the metagame would benefit from an Intimidate user that actually resists Flying. *cough Luxray, cough, cough*. That said, it's funny how Rotom and Wizareetin resist Magikite. The Fire/Ice starter has some promise as long as it can heal itself and activate Snow to boost its physical bullk. It could benefit from a little bit more SpA, though, as its damage output is fairly low. Malitch, the Selfish user, seems too passive. With VGC being a fast paced format, spamming Curse won't always be effective. Perhaps, it needs good allies that synergize with it or that bring out the best qualities it has. Potentially, you could redistribute stats and/or add moves like Belly Drum and Shadow Sneak.
- as for the ability Selfish, indirect damage generally does not seem to include stuff like Curse or Belly Drum; it's also why Magic Guard user still loose HP if they were to click one of these moves. So, I had to modify Curse and Belly Drum to make the ally receive damage. It's possible there are other moves that are as "problematic" as Curse or Belly Drum. Let me know if you are aware of any other move. In any case, Selfish should work properly and as intended.
- I'm unable to code the move Passive Aggressive; it's a little bit too convoluted/complex with my limited coding skills. While I'm at it, I'm unable to modify Emergency Exit, making it work after the user used the move when its HP is brought down to 50% or below as the relevant coding part is hard coded and located elsewhere than usual and across different sections I'm not used to. So, if you have any ideas as to how to solve these two issues or come up with an alternate suggestion on how they should work, feel free to let me know. Anyway, I guess I could simplify Emergency Exit but it would likely miss out on many other complex interactions it has with recoil, pivot moves, Sheer Force, etc. Or we leave out Emergency Exit since Golisopod's Armor Piercer is a strong ability itself. And it's hard to justify not using it. Let me know what you think.
- the names of the legendary Ghost quartet are too long. I'd suggest a shorter name unless the submitter is actually fine with the names not being fully displayed.
- since Brine is buffed to 75 BP, are there any issues if, in the next patch, I were to raise Matokoda's signature move Anguish Cry from 55 BP to 65 BP instead?
- it's possible I might have forgotten to include Protect / Substitute / Sleep Talk /etc. for some of our custom Pokémon or that I spelled a move / ability wrong. If you spot any of these mistakes or oversights, let me know. On that note, it's also possible I might have forgotten to include any other custom element since there are so many to begin with. Don't hesitate and point them out to me.
- on the Google spreadsheet, I noticed a slight misunderstanding when it comes to Ancient Core. Dark Pulse is already a special move. So, with Dark already having the special move category, this move won't be boosted. However, Crunch--normally, a physical move--would change its category to special, thereby gaining the power boost. So, only if a move category switch occurs will the power boost be applied. Using Dark Pulse as an example on the sheet could be misleading.
- I took the liberty to enforce Bo3, especially since there's supposed to be a tournament in the (near) future. If you do not like the Bo3 feature, let me know, and I'll remove it in the next patch.
- If you have any sprites you want me to add, let me know. Though, I won't resize or anything like that since I've never done / modified sprites myself before. Iirc, the proper size would be 64x64.
- On a final note, if you suggest any returning Pokémon that are not present in gen 9, it might not be a bad idea to closely look at their movepool and add moves that they either lost or that they would benefit from. While Vespiquen can be found in Paldea, I noticed it lost Tailwind... Which is surprising because it learns it in gen 7. A Pokémon like Delcatty is a lot weaker without any access to Body Slam or Double-Edge anymore, to give an actual example. Not that it would need them. It's just sth. to keep in mind.
- Oh, I forgot to mention that while I have yet to build a competitive team, some of the Pokémon I used to test my coding left a strong impression. Wizareetin-Gravelord (Electric/Ghost) is crazily strong, even capable of 2HKOing Snorlax with Choice Specs Conductive Spell, an 80 BP move, iirc. It remains to be seen whether it and/or the move itself require a nerf, especially with Ground Pokémon afraid of switching into it. On another note, Magikite (Flying) is also pretty strong. Flying Dive + Wind Rider or what have you is an incredibly strong combination, and Magikite could always run Sky Plate or Choice Band. Not even sth as sturdy as Keisberg (Ice/Steel) wants to switch into a Flying move. Will see if it needs a nerf but in any case, the metagame would benefit from an Intimidate user that actually resists Flying. *cough Luxray, cough, cough*. That said, it's funny how Rotom and Wizareetin resist Magikite. The Fire/Ice starter has some promise as long as it can heal itself and activate Snow to boost its physical bullk. It could benefit from a little bit more SpA, though, as its damage output is fairly low. Malitch, the Selfish user, seems too passive. With VGC being a fast paced format, spamming Curse won't always be effective. Perhaps, it needs good allies that synergize with it or that bring out the best qualities it has. Potentially, you could redistribute stats and/or add moves like Belly Drum and Shadow Sneak.
Last edited:
This is Daiyafia speaking, they're long because the "Undead" and "Gravelord" classifications are actually the form identifiers of each of the Diamond Hand members featured, treated as if they were regional form identifiers. (For example, Gravelord Wizareetin is Wizareetin in its Gravelord Form) Impromancer HAS raised them as undead, not their original forms, after all.....
As a reminder, here's what each member used to look like before they fell to the beasts of the Iron Fist Arena, and therefore revived as undead...or in the case of Wizareetin, mysteriously didn't turn up to the approval slate! From left to right: Nihilink, Mutinuncle, Upvybones, and Wizareetin.
And the votes are in! With three votes each, the winners are Samtendo09 and BlueRay ! Congratulations! Very late my time so will update the spreadsheet tomorrow morning
Well, well, well. Gen 9 VGC 20xx is already implemented on DH. So, follow this link and go to Gen 9 PetMod. At the bottom of the list, you will find Gen 9 VGC 20xx. Use this opportunity to check if there's anything I missed or did wrong before sugarbear announces the date of the tournament, whenever that might be. On that note, it might not be a bad idea to create a Discord channel where we could all come together, find opportunities to battle each other through #matchmaking or discuss anything we want to or need to. Link [http://191.101.232.116/].
If there's no disagreement, I will implement the new additions in the next patch. Perhaps, ideally, with all the stuff you might point out to me.
If there's no disagreement, I will implement the new additions in the next patch. Perhaps, ideally, with all the stuff you might point out to me.
OK everyone, update time! Since we now have a playable meta (thanks BlueRay ), we're not going to have another slate just yet. I thought we could dedicate the next week or so to testing what we've got, then we'll have a tournament! My time zone is London UK, I'm free to play most evenings, PM me to arrange some games. Evenings and weekends are the best times for me.
My thoughts on some of the current mons:
Watchlist (things we might have to nerf)
Wizareetin
This thing is nuts. Its basically Miraidon with a Fake Out + Ground immunity that doesn't rely on terrain to hit hard. Conductive Spell makes it very hard to answer if you don't have something with an Electric immunity granting ability, and Shadow Ball still hits hard too. Its physical bulk is pretty poor though, and its above average SpDef is let down by low HP. I think it would be more balanced if Conductive Spell didn't hit Ground types, maybe ignored redirection a la Snipe Shot or hit through Screens and Substitute. You could give it a BP boost to compensate.
Magikite
Flying Dive ended up being a way stronger move than I expected, as against Grounded mons it's basically a drawback free base 120 BP STAB move. Pair it up with a faster Tailwind user, and it basically gets Shift Gear for free. It has solid bulk and its defensive typing isn't too bad either, letting it nearly always claim at least 1 KO. It can even run Dragon Dance Aerilate sets with Mighty Blow. I think Flying Dive might need a nerf (maybe to 50 BP), or I could give it another ability instead of Wind Rider.
Ulmiraj
Huge Power on something with base 70 Attack stat is insane. This gives it a higher Attack stat roughly similar to Mega Mewtwo X! Only it can still hold items, so you could run Life Orb or Band to really melt everything. Play Rough + Earthquake hits everything bar Rotom-H for at least neutral damage.
Not Broken, Just Really Strong
Mudaimer
Massive HP somewhat helps correct its low Def and average SpDef, and with base 121 Attack and almost unresisted STABs, it's going to leave big dents in everything. Its Speed tier is interesting too, since it lets it abuse Trick Room and Tailwind. Swords Dance, STABs and Protect make it very tough, since Swords Dance and solid Attack means it doesn't have to invest much in its Attack and can instead buff up its weaker Def stat.
Stontank
Hey look, it's a Stonjourner that is actually worthwhile outside its ability! Very powerful on Trick Room teams, as low Speed and massive Attack lets it dish out solid damage in its own right, and unlike its prevo it doesn't die if a Special Attacker looks at it too aggressively.
Dustnoir
What Dusknoir always should've been, I can see Sand + Trick Room teams being really strong in this meta. Give it a Weakness Policy and pair it up with Bulldoze Farigaraf, and it does huge damage.
Mauycacque
Really pleased with how this turned out, not since Mega Kangaskhan have we had a Fake Out user that can also dish out a lot of damage. Scrappy Fake Out is really helpful, and with Scrappy its STAB moves have perfect neutral coverage. Prankster is nice as well, since priority Coaching is not to be sneezed at.
Buffed older Pokemon
Tangela
With Amoonguss MIA (and not coming back), if you need a bulky redirector this is currently the best one. While its SpDef stat is pretty bad, with Eviolite and strong investment it can still take neutral special hits well enough. You could run Tangrowth if you'd rather have something that has a bit more power and isn't as dependant on its item.
Snorlax
Mighty Blow is a welcome addition to Belly Drum sets, letting it have a STAB that can OHKO 252/0 Eviolite Tangela at +6 with no investment and a neutral nature. With the right EVs it can always live an Adamant nature Mauycacque's Close Combat. Poison Heal Curse sets are really strong too, as Facade becomes wickedly strong. After 2 Curses, it can live Adamant Judigon's Close Combat.
Orbeetle
Completely worthless before, Hypergravity gives it a strong niche. It's not too passive outside that, since Struggle Bug and Trick Room let it provide team support, and it can even U-turn out to safely bring in teammates. Luckily we don't have too many strong Sleep setters.
Volbeat & Illumise
Thanks to Paranoia they're much less passive than they used to be, as they can basically chip and debuff everything. Right now they're the only mons with priority Tailwind.
My thoughts on some of the current mons:
Watchlist (things we might have to nerf)
Wizareetin
This thing is nuts. Its basically Miraidon with a Fake Out + Ground immunity that doesn't rely on terrain to hit hard. Conductive Spell makes it very hard to answer if you don't have something with an Electric immunity granting ability, and Shadow Ball still hits hard too. Its physical bulk is pretty poor though, and its above average SpDef is let down by low HP. I think it would be more balanced if Conductive Spell didn't hit Ground types, maybe ignored redirection a la Snipe Shot or hit through Screens and Substitute. You could give it a BP boost to compensate.
Magikite
Flying Dive ended up being a way stronger move than I expected, as against Grounded mons it's basically a drawback free base 120 BP STAB move. Pair it up with a faster Tailwind user, and it basically gets Shift Gear for free. It has solid bulk and its defensive typing isn't too bad either, letting it nearly always claim at least 1 KO. It can even run Dragon Dance Aerilate sets with Mighty Blow. I think Flying Dive might need a nerf (maybe to 50 BP), or I could give it another ability instead of Wind Rider.
Ulmiraj
Huge Power on something with base 70 Attack stat is insane. This gives it a higher Attack stat roughly similar to Mega Mewtwo X! Only it can still hold items, so you could run Life Orb or Band to really melt everything. Play Rough + Earthquake hits everything bar Rotom-H for at least neutral damage.
Not Broken, Just Really Strong
Mudaimer
Massive HP somewhat helps correct its low Def and average SpDef, and with base 121 Attack and almost unresisted STABs, it's going to leave big dents in everything. Its Speed tier is interesting too, since it lets it abuse Trick Room and Tailwind. Swords Dance, STABs and Protect make it very tough, since Swords Dance and solid Attack means it doesn't have to invest much in its Attack and can instead buff up its weaker Def stat.
Stontank
Hey look, it's a Stonjourner that is actually worthwhile outside its ability! Very powerful on Trick Room teams, as low Speed and massive Attack lets it dish out solid damage in its own right, and unlike its prevo it doesn't die if a Special Attacker looks at it too aggressively.
Dustnoir
What Dusknoir always should've been, I can see Sand + Trick Room teams being really strong in this meta. Give it a Weakness Policy and pair it up with Bulldoze Farigaraf, and it does huge damage.
Mauycacque
Really pleased with how this turned out, not since Mega Kangaskhan have we had a Fake Out user that can also dish out a lot of damage. Scrappy Fake Out is really helpful, and with Scrappy its STAB moves have perfect neutral coverage. Prankster is nice as well, since priority Coaching is not to be sneezed at.
Buffed older Pokemon
Tangela
With Amoonguss MIA (and not coming back), if you need a bulky redirector this is currently the best one. While its SpDef stat is pretty bad, with Eviolite and strong investment it can still take neutral special hits well enough. You could run Tangrowth if you'd rather have something that has a bit more power and isn't as dependant on its item.
Snorlax
Mighty Blow is a welcome addition to Belly Drum sets, letting it have a STAB that can OHKO 252/0 Eviolite Tangela at +6 with no investment and a neutral nature. With the right EVs it can always live an Adamant nature Mauycacque's Close Combat. Poison Heal Curse sets are really strong too, as Facade becomes wickedly strong. After 2 Curses, it can live Adamant Judigon's Close Combat.
Orbeetle
Completely worthless before, Hypergravity gives it a strong niche. It's not too passive outside that, since Struggle Bug and Trick Room let it provide team support, and it can even U-turn out to safely bring in teammates. Luckily we don't have too many strong Sleep setters.
Volbeat & Illumise
Thanks to Paranoia they're much less passive than they used to be, as they can basically chip and debuff everything. Right now they're the only mons with priority Tailwind.
Update:
I've just made a pull-request. So, new stuff will likely be implemented pretty soon. Some things to note: I corrected Malitch's and Mutinuncle-Necro's stats. Karion now has the correct hidden ability, Justified. Aegislash-Light is legal in VGC while Sneasel now has the correct VGC NFE designation. Sand Stream on Dustnoir is correctly spelled. And there won't be double Compound Eyes on Illophyr.
As for the pledge moves, it seems that while you can combine it with other moves, you will only receive the desired field effect if it's paired with another pledge move. Likely due to the "-combine" code being hard coded and implemented in a section I have not found yet. That said, bear in mind that, in the new patch, any single-target and non status Grass/Fire/Water move will turn into a 150 BP if it's successfully combined with an ally's pledge move.
Since there weren't any disagreements, I assume people are fine with buffing Anguish Cry's BP to 65.
I've just made a pull-request. So, new stuff will likely be implemented pretty soon. Some things to note: I corrected Malitch's and Mutinuncle-Necro's stats. Karion now has the correct hidden ability, Justified. Aegislash-Light is legal in VGC while Sneasel now has the correct VGC NFE designation. Sand Stream on Dustnoir is correctly spelled. And there won't be double Compound Eyes on Illophyr.
As for the pledge moves, it seems that while you can combine it with other moves, you will only receive the desired field effect if it's paired with another pledge move. Likely due to the "-combine" code being hard coded and implemented in a section I have not found yet. That said, bear in mind that, in the new patch, any single-target and non status Grass/Fire/Water move will turn into a 150 BP if it's successfully combined with an ally's pledge move.
Since there weren't any disagreements, I assume people are fine with buffing Anguish Cry's BP to 65.
sounds good to me
I had some time today and managed to find several oversights, which are now corrected and will be updated / implemented in the next patch. I corrected multiple move spelling errors, added Protect / Substitute / Sleep Talk to the few Pokémon I missed. Accelgor / Escavalier should have an actual movepool. I forgot they don't exist in gen 9. So, I had to port them over... This also means King's Shield will be available pretty soon. Dustform will soon have Sand Geyser added. If you take a look at the builder and notice "???" among the moves, that's usually an indication of a wrong spelling.
That said, concerning Ulmiraj, I guess we could always remove Play Rough and replace it with Spirit Break which kind of turns this Pokémon into a Kartana. Alternatively, lowering Atk could also help if it turns out to be too restrictive. As for Magikite, replacing Wind Rider with another ability while also nerfing its move seems reasonable. There should be some incentive to run Aerilate, after all.
That said, concerning Ulmiraj, I guess we could always remove Play Rough and replace it with Spirit Break which kind of turns this Pokémon into a Kartana. Alternatively, lowering Atk could also help if it turns out to be too restrictive. As for Magikite, replacing Wind Rider with another ability while also nerfing its move seems reasonable. There should be some incentive to run Aerilate, after all.
Here's my opinions on the matter. Keep in mind that I haven't gotten around to playing a game yet (busy with school) so take this with a grain of salt.
Wizareetin: Make Conductive Spell has +5 bp (85 bp) and deal 0.5x damage against Ground-types instead of 2x. Now it can't nuke Ground-types, instead getting some chip off on them, while not instantly blowing them up.
Magikite: Flying Dive to 50 bp or Wind Rider becomes Technician or Insomnia. I'm leaning towards replacing Wind Rider with either of those 2 abilities. Insomnia is rather niche, but immunity to sleep isn't something you can scoff at in vgc. Technician allows Flying Dive & Mighty Blow to be decent damage if they don't get their boost + Icy Wind becomes a lot more usable.
Ulmiraj: I'd say -10 Att (60 Att) and/or -EQ. It still has Bulldoze if it wants Ground coverage, but the drop in power if very notable at the benefit of helping its speed game. -10 Att is still really high, but it hits much weaker while still being very powerful. Maybe make it -15 Att.
BlueRay and I had a few games tonight, here are some scattered thoughts.
1: I'm bad at teambuilding
2: Wizarteen is the prime suspect for brokenness. Amazing Speed and power combined with great typing, ability and a really strong signature move. I think get rid of Levitate and nerf Conductive Spell, and then it'll be fine
3: Magikite isn't as strong as I initially feared. It might still need to be examined, but it wasn't as strong in practice as on paper.
4. Keisberg is really strong, that ability combined with great bulk let it easily set up Belly Drum. Because you're maxing Attack it doesn't have to run any investment, making it even bulkier. Its ability might need to be nerfed, since without STAB Ground moves you are not OHKOing this thing.
5. Mudaimer is also really strong, that amazing HP stat lets you run max defence EVs to patch that stat up, making it deceptively hard to KO. And with Swords Dance, high Attack stat and almost perfect neutral coverage with its STABs it's sure to cause a lot of damage.
6. Mauycacque is a great support mon, Fake Out + Prankster Coaching is a very strong combination that can help most physical attackers.
7. Metagross-Prime is like Arboliva but, you know, good. Psy Net + Eject Button lets it bring in teammates for free to abuse the terrain. If we bring back any Psychic Surge Pokemon (or create any) then I can see Psy spam being very powerful.
8. Poison Heal Curselax is strong.
Here are the replays. Like I said, I'm bad at teambuilding
1: I'm bad at teambuilding
2: Wizarteen is the prime suspect for brokenness. Amazing Speed and power combined with great typing, ability and a really strong signature move. I think get rid of Levitate and nerf Conductive Spell, and then it'll be fine
3: Magikite isn't as strong as I initially feared. It might still need to be examined, but it wasn't as strong in practice as on paper.
4. Keisberg is really strong, that ability combined with great bulk let it easily set up Belly Drum. Because you're maxing Attack it doesn't have to run any investment, making it even bulkier. Its ability might need to be nerfed, since without STAB Ground moves you are not OHKOing this thing.
5. Mudaimer is also really strong, that amazing HP stat lets you run max defence EVs to patch that stat up, making it deceptively hard to KO. And with Swords Dance, high Attack stat and almost perfect neutral coverage with its STABs it's sure to cause a lot of damage.
6. Mauycacque is a great support mon, Fake Out + Prankster Coaching is a very strong combination that can help most physical attackers.
7. Metagross-Prime is like Arboliva but, you know, good. Psy Net + Eject Button lets it bring in teammates for free to abuse the terrain. If we bring back any Psychic Surge Pokemon (or create any) then I can see Psy spam being very powerful.
8. Poison Heal Curselax is strong.
Here are the replays. Like I said, I'm bad at teambuilding
Game 1
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vgc20xx-7060-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vgc20xx-7062-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vgc20xx-7066-nullpw
Game 2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vgc20xx-7069-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vgc20xx-7070-nullpw
Game 3
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vgc20xx-7072-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vgc20xx-7073-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vgc20xx-7060-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vgc20xx-7062-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vgc20xx-7066-nullpw
Game 2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vgc20xx-7069-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vgc20xx-7070-nullpw
Game 3
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vgc20xx-7072-nullpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen9vgc20xx-7073-nullpw
After seeing the battles in action, especially with being a better Belly Drum than the buffed Curse Snorlax, I can see why Keisberg can be a pain to fight against.
I would not mind the nerf for Eternal Ice, by making it immune to Water instead of Fighting while maintaining it’s Fire immunity and “move last in same priority bracket” thing. Sure, it’s not a net nerf per say, but this way, Fighting can be a highly consistent way to OHKO Keisberg while still allowing Keisberg to mess with Sun teams while also allowing it to mess with Rain teams.
If Mudaimer is that pressing of an issue, I would suggest to either move 20 Atk to Special Attack so that it would want to set up, or nerf it’s bulk (particularly it’s HP) so that it’s easier to take down.
I don’t think Mudaimer is an issue, just that it’s a very strong Pokemon. Sorry if my wording made it sound broken. For now I think it’s fine - A tier threat for sure, but nothing too crippling. While it can abuse all kinds of speed control, it definitely needs it.
First Metagame Impressions
- bulky teams: There seems to be a lot of bulky Pokémon on average, which makes taking them down in one hit a little bit more difficult. I like this since it would mean you have more turns to think about your moves. Moreover, this allows for more varied approaches to the game. For instance, you can try making use of Toxic Spikes, screens, Paranoia, etc. to wear down or slow down opposing Pokémon. I do wonder if it's possible to come up with a fast aggressive team. I would be very curious if someone were to try it out. The metagame certainly doesn't lack in powerful attackers, like Magikite or Wizareetin-Gravelord, for more Tailwind oriented teams.
- As for Trick Room, as sugarbear already mentioned, it's a strong archetype at first glance. There are a lot of diverse Trick Room setters and abusers, depending on what you want to cover for your team, such as Cthulauder (Contrary helps with stat drops, like Intimidate or Snarl), Farigiraf (priority denial), Bennusule (doesn't fear Grass and Bug Pokémon who are immune to Rage Powder) or Dustnoir (Fake Out immunity) when it comes to Trick Room setters. Abusers themselves can be found among Snorlax (status sponge and very bulky), Golisopod (gets around stall moves like Protect), Escavalier (punishes stat drops), Dustform (pressures Keisberg), etc.
- Normal and Bug: I'm pleasantly surprised at how good or useful some of the Normal and Bug Pokémon have turned out to be, namely Illumise / Volbeat (no competition for Prankster Tailwind), Illophyr (Tailwind on entry if a previous Pokémon fainted), Mudaimer (strong and deceptively bulky), Snorlax (resilient tank). I'll be looking forward to seeing more of the types' performances.
- Staples: I believe Wizareetin-Gravelord and Keisberg are pretty much staples in the metagame; they provide a lot of benefits, defensively and offensively. For instance, the former checks Magikite (resisting Flying and being immune to Fighting and Ground) while the latter boasts many resistances and only has a weakness in Ground. And the metagame doesn't have many Ground Pokémon, let alone strong ones to begin with. That said, I'm not sure if we really need to remove Levitate from Wizareetin-Gravelord since the ability provides good defensive value that could be considered healthy as it also checks Snorlax, among others. Moreover, if we ever end up with an Electric Terrain setter, Levitate would prevent Wizareetin-Gravelord from benefiting from the terrain, which could be a good thing if we don't want it to become crazier. A nerf / change to its signature move Conductive Spell and, perhaps, its stats, would be more reasonable in my eyes. We already lack in many useable Ground Pokémon, we don't necessarily need to scare them away. As for Keisberg, I have the suspicion as times goes on, it will only become crazier since, on top of being strong and super resilient, it also has some set diversity (Belly Drum, Choice Band, Iron Defense + Body Press, etc.). I like Keisberg conceptual wise; it's interesting to see in practice a Pokémon that always moves last. Perhaps, replacing the Fighting immunity with a Water immunity would be better. Personally, I like Pokémon that excel but have a noteable flaw, like Heatran, Kingambit, Celebi, etc. After the promised tournament, I'm sure we can revisit Keisberg again and decide on what's the best way to approach it.
Sugarbear and I have only scratched the surface so far. But the games so far have been interesting and enlightening. For instance, sugarbear's desire to promote the Bug type matches well with my initial hypothesis: Bug - Ghost - Dark, Psychic - Normal - Fighting. You promote one type, you also end up promoting others while focusing less on others, such as Fairy as it may overlap too much with Bug and Psychic's Fighting resistance, for instance. That said, I do want to try out some of the other legendary Ghost Pokémon at some point given how bulky and strong they appear to be.
- bulky teams: There seems to be a lot of bulky Pokémon on average, which makes taking them down in one hit a little bit more difficult. I like this since it would mean you have more turns to think about your moves. Moreover, this allows for more varied approaches to the game. For instance, you can try making use of Toxic Spikes, screens, Paranoia, etc. to wear down or slow down opposing Pokémon. I do wonder if it's possible to come up with a fast aggressive team. I would be very curious if someone were to try it out. The metagame certainly doesn't lack in powerful attackers, like Magikite or Wizareetin-Gravelord, for more Tailwind oriented teams.
- As for Trick Room, as sugarbear already mentioned, it's a strong archetype at first glance. There are a lot of diverse Trick Room setters and abusers, depending on what you want to cover for your team, such as Cthulauder (Contrary helps with stat drops, like Intimidate or Snarl), Farigiraf (priority denial), Bennusule (doesn't fear Grass and Bug Pokémon who are immune to Rage Powder) or Dustnoir (Fake Out immunity) when it comes to Trick Room setters. Abusers themselves can be found among Snorlax (status sponge and very bulky), Golisopod (gets around stall moves like Protect), Escavalier (punishes stat drops), Dustform (pressures Keisberg), etc.
- Normal and Bug: I'm pleasantly surprised at how good or useful some of the Normal and Bug Pokémon have turned out to be, namely Illumise / Volbeat (no competition for Prankster Tailwind), Illophyr (Tailwind on entry if a previous Pokémon fainted), Mudaimer (strong and deceptively bulky), Snorlax (resilient tank). I'll be looking forward to seeing more of the types' performances.
- Staples: I believe Wizareetin-Gravelord and Keisberg are pretty much staples in the metagame; they provide a lot of benefits, defensively and offensively. For instance, the former checks Magikite (resisting Flying and being immune to Fighting and Ground) while the latter boasts many resistances and only has a weakness in Ground. And the metagame doesn't have many Ground Pokémon, let alone strong ones to begin with. That said, I'm not sure if we really need to remove Levitate from Wizareetin-Gravelord since the ability provides good defensive value that could be considered healthy as it also checks Snorlax, among others. Moreover, if we ever end up with an Electric Terrain setter, Levitate would prevent Wizareetin-Gravelord from benefiting from the terrain, which could be a good thing if we don't want it to become crazier. A nerf / change to its signature move Conductive Spell and, perhaps, its stats, would be more reasonable in my eyes. We already lack in many useable Ground Pokémon, we don't necessarily need to scare them away. As for Keisberg, I have the suspicion as times goes on, it will only become crazier since, on top of being strong and super resilient, it also has some set diversity (Belly Drum, Choice Band, Iron Defense + Body Press, etc.). I like Keisberg conceptual wise; it's interesting to see in practice a Pokémon that always moves last. Perhaps, replacing the Fighting immunity with a Water immunity would be better. Personally, I like Pokémon that excel but have a noteable flaw, like Heatran, Kingambit, Celebi, etc. After the promised tournament, I'm sure we can revisit Keisberg again and decide on what's the best way to approach it.
Sugarbear and I have only scratched the surface so far. But the games so far have been interesting and enlightening. For instance, sugarbear's desire to promote the Bug type matches well with my initial hypothesis: Bug - Ghost - Dark, Psychic - Normal - Fighting. You promote one type, you also end up promoting others while focusing less on others, such as Fairy as it may overlap too much with Bug and Psychic's Fighting resistance, for instance. That said, I do want to try out some of the other legendary Ghost Pokémon at some point given how bulky and strong they appear to be.
First tournament is up! Signup here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/vgc-20xx-first-tournament-signups.3760678/ . It has prizes!
Top 4: You can create a Pokemon with a base stat total limit of 520.
2nd place: You can create a Pokemon with a base stat total limit of 520, and create a new item
1st place: You can create a Pokemon with a base stat total limit of 600 and create a new item
Top 4: You can create a Pokemon with a base stat total limit of 520.
2nd place: You can create a Pokemon with a base stat total limit of 520, and create a new item
1st place: You can create a Pokemon with a base stat total limit of 600 and create a new item
Poking around in teambuilder, a few bugs to squash
-Typo on Megahorn in Ahimstalag's movepool
-Orbeetle's full movepool does not display
-Cheverpent, Kagunawa, Mountalon, and Eereyster's movepools do not display at all, really weird thing happening there. (Doesn't apply to Mudaimer, so not related to Abnormal)
Also, I did get a look at Wizareetin... that's just a restricted mon. I haven't played a game of this yet, so I might be crazy, but that looks dramatically overpowered to the point I don't know how it was allowed to exist as is. (Why he won is clear though - the lore write up for him and his gang are really neat!) I don't know if I have the best metagame ideas for nerfs on it, but I have a few suggestions you could take or leave.
Conductive Spell - Super Effective against Ground --> Super Effective against Ground, No Effect against Non-Grounded
The thought here is pretty simple - it has a crazy upside, but a situational yet very notable downside. Most notably, this means the move is unable to hit Flying-type Pokemon, which Electric types are otherwise meant to have an advantage into, which decreases the sheer reach of any 2 attack set.* The move also exists alongside Freeze Dry in the sense that it can be run alongside other standard Electric-type attacks for the powerful qualities they have over Conductive Spell - the utility of Volt Switch, the spread damage of Discharge, or the sheer power of Thunderbolt or Thunder.
140 SpAtk --> Lower, or something (120ish?)
I don't love choosing a specific number, especially because I like putting goofy meanings and patterns in the exact base stats I pick for stuff and I don't have a specific benchmark in mind, but sincerely. It's ridiculous to be simultaneously the 2nd fastest thing in the game (to Accelgor) and the strongest unboosted Special Attacker in the game at the same time. Cutting Special Attack makes more sense to me than Speed here, as it would require a way bigger number cut to start hitting relevant thresholds, and having a strong mon that can outspeed uninvested Tailwind boosted mid-speed mons is pretty neat.
*I wanted to see what funny Normal / Flying type would wall the modfied Conductive Spell + Shadow Ball STAB combo, and I realized we don't actually have one in the game yet. Could we just slap Noctowl into the game to have one of those? (Regardless of this specific change going through or not, of course)
-Typo on Megahorn in Ahimstalag's movepool
-Orbeetle's full movepool does not display
-Cheverpent, Kagunawa, Mountalon, and Eereyster's movepools do not display at all, really weird thing happening there. (Doesn't apply to Mudaimer, so not related to Abnormal)
Also, I did get a look at Wizareetin... that's just a restricted mon. I haven't played a game of this yet, so I might be crazy, but that looks dramatically overpowered to the point I don't know how it was allowed to exist as is. (Why he won is clear though - the lore write up for him and his gang are really neat!) I don't know if I have the best metagame ideas for nerfs on it, but I have a few suggestions you could take or leave.
Conductive Spell - Super Effective against Ground --> Super Effective against Ground, No Effect against Non-Grounded
The thought here is pretty simple - it has a crazy upside, but a situational yet very notable downside. Most notably, this means the move is unable to hit Flying-type Pokemon, which Electric types are otherwise meant to have an advantage into, which decreases the sheer reach of any 2 attack set.* The move also exists alongside Freeze Dry in the sense that it can be run alongside other standard Electric-type attacks for the powerful qualities they have over Conductive Spell - the utility of Volt Switch, the spread damage of Discharge, or the sheer power of Thunderbolt or Thunder.
140 SpAtk --> Lower, or something (120ish?)
I don't love choosing a specific number, especially because I like putting goofy meanings and patterns in the exact base stats I pick for stuff and I don't have a specific benchmark in mind, but sincerely. It's ridiculous to be simultaneously the 2nd fastest thing in the game (to Accelgor) and the strongest unboosted Special Attacker in the game at the same time. Cutting Special Attack makes more sense to me than Speed here, as it would require a way bigger number cut to start hitting relevant thresholds, and having a strong mon that can outspeed uninvested Tailwind boosted mid-speed mons is pretty neat.
*I wanted to see what funny Normal / Flying type would wall the modfied Conductive Spell + Shadow Ball STAB combo, and I realized we don't actually have one in the game yet. Could we just slap Noctowl into the game to have one of those? (Regardless of this specific change going through or not, of course)
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Thanks for pointing out the bugs! I'm not sure what's wrong with the movepool not being displayed for certain Pokémon, but I'll look into. Fwiw, you definitely can type and validate a Pokémon's move. In the meantime, I would suggest using the Google spreadsheet to have a better idea of a Pokémon's movepool. Mega Horn will be an easy fix. That said, I can't speak for everyone here but I assume it's a "let's wait and test and see how it actually plays out" attitude when it comes to stuff like Wizareetin.
Thanks to anaconja's suggestion, I managed to solve the movepool issue, except for Orbeetle. I have an idea how to solve it. Wait, now that I think about it, Orbeetle does not naturally exist in Paldea... So, I have to include its full movepool. A reminder to always mention if a Pokémon does not naturally exist in Pokémon Scarlet and Violet. x)
That said, if you notice anything, let me know. Also, it can't hurt to test your teams before you engage in a tournament match! With how many custom elements there are, there's always a chance I might have missed sth.
That said, if you notice anything, let me know. Also, it can't hurt to test your teams before you engage in a tournament match! With how many custom elements there are, there's always a chance I might have missed sth.
Now, even Orbeetle's movepool is displayed on DH! Some Pokémon I overlooked gained Protect / Sleep Talk / Substitute. So, building should be quite easy and comfortable. I'm looking forward to the tournament. It's great to see so many people participating, even when some of them have never or have almost never interacted with sugarbear's mod. Makes me hope we might see more subs in the near future. :eyes:
Edit: If someone uses Aegislash-Light, bear in mind its sword form is Electric/Psychic and its shield form is Electric/Fighting.
Edit: If someone uses Aegislash-Light, bear in mind its sword form is Electric/Psychic and its shield form is Electric/Fighting.
Going to get started on the viability rankings after the tournament's wrapped up. I have a few early nominations though, please let me know if you agree.
S Rank
Wizarteen. Insanely fast, hits like a truck, brilliant typing and a fantastic signature move. Imagine if Rotom and Miraidon had a demonic baby.
Keisberg. You are not OHKOing this thing without STAB Ground moves thanks to its ability, giving it ample time to set up Belly Drum and let it tear through teams.
A Rank
Magikite. Doesn't bring much to the table defensively, but offensively it can demolish anything that doesn't resist Flying. Shows how dangerous Gyarados could be if it got a reliable STAB move with over 80 BP.
Orbeetle. Auto Gravity + Hypnosis on something with 90 base Speed is just not funny. I think Hyper Gravity will need to be nerfed (maybe have it set Gravity upon being hit, a la Psy Net and Arboliva's ability)
Mudaimer. Really bulky, almost perfect neutral coverage with its STABs, solid Attack stat and powerful STABs backed up by Swords Dance. Speed tier seems awkward, but lets it abuse Trick Room and Tailwind.
Swampert-Rift. Fantastic Assault Vest user, one of the very few Pokemon that can reliably counter Wizarteen.
Volbeat and Illumise. The only priority Tailwind users in the format. Both can also take hits decently well and have a plethora of other good support moves to abuse Prankster with. Paranoia makes them much less passive.
Snorlax. Poison Heal + Curse makes it very hard to get rid of. STAB Facade hits really hard, so it doens't need much Attack investment to punch through things.
B Rank
Golisopod. Armor Piercer is a welcome upgrade over Emergency Exit.
Stontank. What Stonjourner always should've been.
Cthulauder. What Malamar always should've been. Can run both Contrary Sweeper sets and a Trick Room support set
Can't think of any others atm, let me know your thoughts!
S Rank
Wizarteen. Insanely fast, hits like a truck, brilliant typing and a fantastic signature move. Imagine if Rotom and Miraidon had a demonic baby.
Keisberg. You are not OHKOing this thing without STAB Ground moves thanks to its ability, giving it ample time to set up Belly Drum and let it tear through teams.
A Rank
Magikite. Doesn't bring much to the table defensively, but offensively it can demolish anything that doesn't resist Flying. Shows how dangerous Gyarados could be if it got a reliable STAB move with over 80 BP.
Orbeetle. Auto Gravity + Hypnosis on something with 90 base Speed is just not funny. I think Hyper Gravity will need to be nerfed (maybe have it set Gravity upon being hit, a la Psy Net and Arboliva's ability)
Mudaimer. Really bulky, almost perfect neutral coverage with its STABs, solid Attack stat and powerful STABs backed up by Swords Dance. Speed tier seems awkward, but lets it abuse Trick Room and Tailwind.
Swampert-Rift. Fantastic Assault Vest user, one of the very few Pokemon that can reliably counter Wizarteen.
Volbeat and Illumise. The only priority Tailwind users in the format. Both can also take hits decently well and have a plethora of other good support moves to abuse Prankster with. Paranoia makes them much less passive.
Snorlax. Poison Heal + Curse makes it very hard to get rid of. STAB Facade hits really hard, so it doens't need much Attack investment to punch through things.
B Rank
Golisopod. Armor Piercer is a welcome upgrade over Emergency Exit.
Stontank. What Stonjourner always should've been.
Cthulauder. What Malamar always should've been. Can run both Contrary Sweeper sets and a Trick Room support set
Can't think of any others atm, let me know your thoughts!
Thank goodness I already suggested swapping immunity to Fighting to Water so that there is a more consistent way to OHKO that Eiscue evo.
Regardless, it is nice to see three of my winner creations seeing good uses. Swampert-Rift turned out a lot better than I expected too, between Sucker Punch and immunity to Electric-type to counter directly Wizarteen!
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And joining the new Pokemon, we have Samtendo09 's new creation: Leddlar, the Bug/Fighting type evolution of Ledian! With high Speed, solid offensive stats and Defiant to block Intimidate, this is a beetle with bite!
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Just high Attack and high Speed to be specific, but it does have slightly higher HP and Spd than Ledian.
Those are the sneak peek of what to expect from Ledellar(*)!
(*) correct name, not Leddler