VGC16 Suicune

Mr.GX

Mew Mew
is a Tiering Contributor
[OVERVIEW]

Suicune is one of the more difficult Pokemon to use in this format thanks to Primal Groudon and its Desolate Land. However, with the right support, Suicune can catch people off guard and take down some of the metagame's biggest threats on its own. Base 100 / 115 / 115 defensive stats give Suicune a considerable amount of bulk, and its Water typing makes Suicune weak to only two types. Suicune's limited support movepool comes in handy to create various disrupting plays like using Snarl to weaken your opponent's offensive options and Tailwind to increase your team's Speed. Suicune is one of the few Pokemon in the metagame that easily shrug off both Primal Groudon's Eruption and Primal Kyogre's Water Spout while hitting both Primal Groudon and Rayquaza for super effective damage. While Suicune plays a huge supportive role in your team, it exerts little to no offensive pressure against the likes of Kyogre and Xerneas and is completely ineffective and helpless in Primal Groudon's harsh sun. Pokemon like Thundurus can easily shut down its support option with Taunt and can KO Suicune with super effective Thunderbolts, while Primal Kyogre completely walls Suicune and KOes it with Thunder. In short, Suicune works much like Cresselia but provides better bulk in a metagame focused around the Primal Reversions and can help set up different types of speed control.

[SET]
name: Tailwind Disruptor
move 1: Tailwind
move 2: Scald
move 3: Icy Wind / Ice Beam
move 4: Roar / Snarl
item: Sitrus Berry / Lum Berry
ability: Pressure
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Tailwind is Suicune's main form of speed control, allowing your offensive team members to outspeed and KO the opposing Pokemon with their powerful spread moves, such as Geomancy-boosted Xerneas, which is one of the most common Pokemon in the metagame. Scald is Suicune's primary STAB move to OHKO any opposing Primal Groudon if Air Lock or Primordial Sea is active and can be used on most physical attackers thanks to its 30% burn chance. Icy Wind is generally used as an additional form of speed control and hits Mega Salamence and Rayquaza super effectively, while Ice Beam deals higher amounts of damage to those Pokemon. Roar is often used as an option to phaze Geomancy-boosted Xerneas to reset its boosts as well as stop the activation of Trick Room, which is important because Suicune is primarily used on fast, offensive teams. Roar also has the added utility of phazing Smeargle to get rid of annoying Moody boosts. Snarl can be used in the final slot to provide additional disruption, weakening Primal Kyogre and Xerneas.

Set Details
========

Sitrus Berry is used to maximize Suicune's longevity, but Lum Berry can be used to lead against Smeargle users and set up Tailwind as early as possible to begin your team's offensive onslaught. Unfortunately, Suicune's ability, Pressure, doesn't make much of an impact in this format, other than making Eruption run out of PP much faster. This set is EVed to survive as many physical attacks as possible. 252 HP and 156 Defense EVs along with a Bold nature give Suicune enough physical bulk to have a 10.5% chance to avoid the 2HKO from Mega Rayquaza's Dragon Ascent. Additionally, this spread makes sure Suicune survives Mega Rayquaza's Helping Hand-boosted Dragon Ascent, which happens to be one of the strongest physical attacks available in the VGC 2016 metagame. 100 Special Defense EVs help Suicune survive +2 Xerneas's Moonblast 87.5% of the time, which allows it to retaliate with a Roar after taking a hit.

Usage Tips
========

Suicune's primary usage is that of a support Pokemon similar to Cresselia. Keep Suicune on the field to disrupt your opponent's Pokemon while ensuring you have a form of speed control on the field. Suicune is often used with Rayquaza to take advantage of Air Lock, allowing it to hit Talonflame and Primal Groudon with a super effective Scald, which usually OHKOes the latter. Leading Suicune against a Trick Room team to Roar their setter away is often the preferred play, though it should be wary of redirectors. Suicune should lead with a Fake Out user to help it set up Tailwind or phaze the opposing threats, allowing you to gain momentum as quickly as possible. Icy Wind is commonly used against Rayquaza + Primal Kyogre teams when paired with a Primal Groudon, as a combination of Eruption and Icy Wind is usually enough to KO Rayquaza on the switch, securing you the win. Additionally, Icy Wind can be used against teams with both Primal Reversions that have their own Tailwind, which allows your Pokemon to be the fastest on the field. Roar can be used against such teams as well to shut down any Trick Room attempt. As people are aware of Roar's existence, they might bait Suicune into using Roar on their Xerneas, only to hit you with a Moonblast or Dazzling Gleam, making you lose momentum.

Team Options
========

Rayquaza makes an excellent partner to any Water-type Pokemon like Kyogre or Suicune. Rayquaza hurts Dragon-types and Primal Kyogre hard, which usually wall Suicune. Primal Groudon is immune to Electric-type moves, usually from Thundurus, forming a good core with Suicune and Rayquaza while providing some switch options. It also is often used to KO Mega Mawile and Ferrothorn, two of the metagame's biggest Steel-type threats, which can easily take down any Rayquaza that doesn't run Overheat. It should be noted that Groudon's Desolate Land is counterproductive with Water-types, forcing the player to run a weather-negating ability like Cloud Nine or Rayquaza's Air Lock for the core to function effectively. As Mega Rayquaza + Primal Kyogre and Xerneas + Primal Kyogre teams may be the most difficult matchups for this trio, Ferrothorn is often run alongside Suicune, since it hits Kyogre and Xerneas hard for super effective damage. Xerneas itself is a good partner to Suicune, when paired with Rayquaza, since Suicune can stop any Trick Room attempts that thwart Xerneas and also takes down Primal Groudon when Air Lock is active. Geomancy-boosted Xerneas along with Suicune's Roar to stop Trick Room forms a formidable core. Electric-types such as Thundurus make solid partners for Suicune, damaging most Water-types like Primal Kyogre that wall Suicune for super effective damage while providing an additional form of speed control via Thunder Wave and using Taunt to shut down Smeargle, which usually gives Suicune a lot of trouble. Raichu can work in this slot as well to draw out Electric-type attacks thanks to its Lightning Rod ability and to provide Fake Out support. Steel-types like Scizor are worth a mention, as they can help take down Xerneas + Mega Rayquaza teams, which usually use a hyper offensive playstyle. Scizor's priority attacks can be used to deal with Smeargle as well, one of the most-used Pokemon in the format. One of the unrestricted Pokemon often used with Suicune is Mega Kangaskhan, as Fake Out support is vital to any team when trying to establish a form of speed control.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Mirror Coat can be used to easily OHKO any Xerneas and Thundurus, as it avoids redirection, providing a foolproof plan to beat down the biggest threats in one hit and allowing Suicune to be viable offensively. Assault Vest works well with this strategy, if you don't mind dropping Tailwind or if your team has a different form of speed control, though this makes Suicune much more susceptible to sleep. Chesto Berry works as a viable option if another Pokemon like Crobat is already using Lum Berry, which also opens up another option in the form of Rest for recovery. Reflect could be used to make your team more physically bulky to survive powerful attacks from the likes of Mega Rayquaza, though this makes Suicune Taunt bait in a best of three environment. Additionally, if you feel that your team needs more offense, Suicune can run an offensive set with a Modest nature and 116 Special Attack EVs to OHKO Mega Salamence with Ice Beam; this, however, is not recommended, as it makes Suicune much more fragile in a metagame centered around powerhouses.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Electric-types**: Electric-types like Thundurus and Raichu easily KO Suicune with super effective STAB moves, as they are usually faster than most Pokemon in the format. Thundurus also has the added aid of Taunt to shut down Suicune's support options. Thunder from Primal Kyogre also deals quite an amount of damage.

**Grass-types**: Grass-types like Ferrothorn and Amoonguss wall Suicune and proceed to KO it with Power Whip and Leech Seed or put it to sleep with Spore, respectively. These Pokemon also serve as counters to Mega Kangaskhan, which is usually paired with Suicune for Fake Out support.

**Bulky Water-types**: With its high Special Defense and Water typing, Primal Kyogre walls Suicune and can whittle down its health with relative ease, especially if it runs Thunder for coverage. Other Water-types like Gastrodon and Slowbro wall Suicune with ease as well.

**Smeargle**: Like most Pokemon in the metagame, Suicune suffers from being put to sleep by Smeargle, which usually outspeeds it, unless you have Tailwind set up. Due to Suicune's mediocre offensive stats, Scald fails to deal sufficient damage to Smeargle, allowing it to use Dark Void on the rest of your Pokemon. This forces players to make a decision as to whether to run Lum Berry or Sitrus Berry.

**Strong Attackers**: Despite Suicune's bulk, restricted Pokemon like Xerneas and Mega Rayquaza can easily take down Suicune with little effort. The fast-paced nature of VGC 2016 forces Suicune players to run a variety of Pokemon that have different types to allow for some decent switching options. Other Pokemon like Mega Kangaskhan deal quite a lot of damage with Helping Hand support.

**Desolate Land**: Suicune becomes functionless in Primal Groudon's Desolate Land and requires the aid of Air Lock to work. This makes Suicune a sitting duck when facing a Primal Groudon if your Rayquaza has already fainted, forcing you to stall out games with Roar or Icy Wind.
 
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Change the thread title to 0/2 QC instead of 0/3.

Overview
  • Cut the first bullet point entirely. It's hyperbolic and retrospective, neither of which are particularly useful.
  • Suicune doesn't have a "huge" support movepool. It can learn all of about three useful support moves.
    • Reword this to emphasize the strength of the support moves it does get, rather than the size of that list.
Set
  • Make sure to use a space before and after your forward slashes.
  • I think Snarl should be slashed before Roar. It's more versatile compared to what is a pretty specific tech.
Set Details
  • I'm not sure how I feel about the EV spread as it stands now:
252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Helping Hand Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Suicune: 139-165 (67.1 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Helping Hand Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Suicune: 181-214 (87.4 - 103.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Suicune: 93-111 (44.9 - 53.6%) -- 10.5% chance to 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Suicune: 93-111 (44.9 - 53.6%) -- 35.2% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Suicune: 178-210 (85.9 - 101.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
  • Stating the EVs make Helping Hand Dragon Ascent a 3HKO seems a stretch given how much of a margin there is.
    • Unless you meant Life Orb-boosted as well, but in that scenario it only survives it 75% of the time.
  • The other two benchmarks seem very dicey too given that both are over a 10% chance to OHKO.
Usage Tips
  • Remove the first point. It's one for the Overview and not a tip, but the second half is very fluffy anyway.
Team Options
  • Bring up the negative synergy with Desolate Land when mentioning Groudon, even if it's to be dismissive of it.
  • Electric-types such as Thundurus and Raichu are worth mentioning here as they help Suicune beat Water-types.
    • In return, Suicune does a good job at beating most common users of Rock- and Ground-type attacks.
    • Raichu is notable, as Fake Out helps set up Tailwind, and Lightning Rod redirects Electric-type moves.
  • Steel-types outside of Ferrothorn such as Mawile and Scizor are worth a mention to check Xerneas as well.
    • Mawile especially enjoys Tailwind, and Snarl complements its Intimidate to check both types of attacker.
Other Options
  • The first two bullet points are already listed on the main set, so you can safely remove them.
  • Acknowledge the use of Assault Vest in combination with Mirror Coat, if the user doesn't mind dropping Tailwind.
  • Perhaps mention Chesto Berry as an alternative over Lum Berry if the latter is in use on another teammate.
  • Regarding Chesto Berry, the possibility of adopting it in combination with Calm Mind and Rest could be brought up.
    • Though it should be pointed out that there are usually better setup sweepers available such as Xerneas.
  • Reflect provides an option to mitigate the damage of physical attackers as opposed to just special with Snarl.
Checks and Counters
  • Split "Type Advantage" into "Electric-type Pokemon" and "Grass-type Pokemon" and list some examples.
  • Move the "Powerful Attackers" section so that it's above "Desolate Land".
  • Remove "Status Ailments". I don't think Suicune is especially weak to them compared to other Pokemon.
    • Suicune is slower than Smeargle, but Lum Berry, Tailwind, and spread attacks make it less of an issue.
    • And paralysis is mostly a detriment to fast and frail Pokemon, as it takes away their biggest advantage.
Not going to give this a 1/2 QC stamp just yet, as I'd like to hear feedback on at least the EV spread first.
 
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Mr.GX

Mew Mew
is a Tiering Contributor
Overview
  • Cut the first bullet point entirely. It's hyperbolic and retrospective, neither of which are particularly useful.
  • Suicune doesn't have a "huge" support movepool. It can learn all of about three useful support moves.
    • Reword this to emphasize the strength of the support moves it does get, rather than the size of that list.
Set
  • Make sure to use a space before and after your forward slashes.
  • I think Snarl should be slashed before Roar. It's more versatile compared to what is a pretty specific tech.
Set Details
  • I'm not sure how I feel about the EV spread as it stands now:
252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Helping Hand Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Suicune: 139-165 (67.1 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Helping Hand Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Suicune: 181-214 (87.4 - 103.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Suicune: 93-111 (44.9 - 53.6%) -- 10.5% chance to 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Suicune: 93-111 (44.9 - 53.6%) -- 35.2% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Suicune: 178-210 (85.9 - 101.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
  • Stating the EVs make Helping Hand Dragon Ascent a 3HKO seems a stretch given how much of a margin there is.
    • Unless you meant Life Orb-boosted as well, but in that scenario it only survives it 75% of the time.
  • The other two benchmarks seem very dicey too given that both are over a 10% chance to OHKO.
Usage Tips
  • Remove the first point. It's one for the Overview and not a tip, but the second half is very fluffy anyway.
Team Options
  • Bring up the negative synergy with Desolate Land when mentioning Groudon, even if it's to be dismissive of it.
  • Electric-types such as Thundurus and Raichu are worth mentioning here as they help Suicune beat Water-types.
    • In return, Suicune does a good job at beating most common users of Rock- and Ground-type attacks.
    • Raichu is notable, as Fake Out helps set up Tailwind, and Lightning Rod redirects Electric-type moves.
  • Steel-types outside of Ferrothorn such as Mawile and Scizor are worth a mention to check Xerneas as well.
    • Mawile especially enjoys Tailwind, and Snarl complements its Intimidate to check both types of attacker.
Other Options
  • The first two bullet points are already listed on the main set, so you can safely remove them.
  • Acknowledge the use of Assault Vest in combination with Mirror Coat, if the user doesn't mind dropping Tailwind.
  • Perhaps mention Chesto Berry as an alternative over Lum Berry if the latter is in use on another teammate.
  • Regarding Chesto Berry, the possibility of adopting it in combination with Calm Mind and Rest could be brought up.
    • Though it should be pointed out that there are usually better setup sweepers available such as Xerneas.
  • Reflect provides an option to mitigate the damage of physical attackers as opposed to just special with Snarl.
Checks and Counters
  • Split "Type Advantage" into "Electric-type Pokemon" and "Grass-type Pokemon" and list some examples.
  • Move the "Powerful Attackers" section so that it's above "Desolate Land".
  • Remove "Status Ailments". I don't think Suicune is especially weak to them compared to other Pokemon.
    • Suicune is slower than Smeargle, but Lum Berry, Tailwind, and spread attacks make it less of an issue.
    • And paralysis is mostly a detriment to fast and frail Pokemon, as it takes away their biggest advantage.
Not going to give this a 1/2 QC stamp just yet, as I'd like to hear feedback on at least the EV spread first.
I got some feedbacks, which are written in bold. I hope you take them into consideration.

Overview
: Implemented

Set
: Implemented. Roar may be a tech in past gens and formats, but in VGC 16, its a staple on Suicune. Every Suicune users I know of runs it, as you don't know if their TR setters run Lum or Mental herb. The additional effect of getting rid of unwanted moody boosts is great, and it helps phaze out Xerneas.

Set Details
: Hmm, like I said, Rayquaza and Xerneas hurt Suicune hard. The spread I posted is really useful, considering how rare Life Orb Rayquaza is (It's mostly used only on RayDon teams). If I focus on the special side, Ray kills Suicune more easily. 12.5% is great considering we are in a metagame where the heavy hitters just hit way too hard. I made another spread, 236 HP / 172 Def / 100 SpDef. It survives LO HH Dragon Ascent from Ray 87.5%, and moonblast from boosted xern got 18.8% chance to OHKO it. Considering xern is way more common that LO ray, I think the first spread is better. Also, I never said HH Dragon Ascent is a 3HKO, I only said it will survive it, which is good enough to set up Tailwind and retaliate with Icy Wind once Ray's defense are down.

Usage Tips
: Implemented

Team Options
:
  • First point implemented.
  • Raichu is not a good combination with Suicune, I have tried it. Most Kangaskhan run Inner Focus, and you just suffer from the limited options. Thundurus-I, on the other hand is good, it helps shut down many stuff, etc. It is a good option alongside Suicune in XRay teams. Implemented Thundurus-I, but not Raichu, because I would like to get some more feedbacks. No disrespect, but I just don't want to give the new players the wrong ideas ;)
  • Suicune should almost always be used with Rayquaza teams, and Mawile just makes you more susceptible to Kyogre and Smeargle, and ferrothorn is always a better choice. I have never seen a Suicune with a Mawile in this format, so would need more feedbacks. Implemented Scizor, since it doesnt take up a mega slot, and hurts Smeargle and Xerneas hard.
Other Options:
  • Implemented the first 3 points.
  • Calm Mind Suicune in VGC 16? It won't last another turn. It may have worked in VGC 15 and OU and other doubles format, but in 16? Even Bold nature makes you barely survive the heavy hitting physical beasts for barely 2 turns, you don't want to waste it using Calm Mind. If they already use Dark Void and exhaust your Chesto, you are a sitting duck after you Rest. It just isn't viable, you can do something better like Snarl or Roar, or even Scald to fish for burns, or icy Wind. Setting up Suicune is not worth it.
  • Implemented Reflect, although Scald does the job if you can burn it.
Checks & Counters:
  • Implemented first two points.
  • Sleep makes Suicune a weaker option, unless you run Lum, but Sitrus is better if you want to survive hits. And spread moves won't work on Smeargle, as most of them run Wide Guard. It requires god prediction and mind games, and Suicune don't even hurt Smeargle that much, even with Scald. When I used Suicune, sleep was a big threat, that I almost never lead with it. Even if I did lead, It forces me to play on the defensive. Got rid of paralysis.
 
Set
I experimented with the EVs myself quite a bit, and I have to agree that the original spread is best suited to the goal that's laid out for Suicune in this analysis. Part of that goal is the use of Roar, so I'll also agree that Roar should stay the first slash. I wish the Battle Spot stats were more accurate to provide more context, but the reality is that given how few Suicune there are on the ladder; it's not a large enough sample size to draw conclusions from.

Set Details
I made a mistake in the second bullet point. I was attempting to refer to:
252 HP / 156 Def ensures Suicune survives Helping Hand boosted Mega-Rayquaza Dragon Ascent
Which implies it's the reason the spread is chosen. Since the first calc I provided states it survives the attack with ease, this is misleading. You can keep it in, just make sure it's listed after the other points as an anecdotal extra.

Team Options
Fake Out users aren't bad because of Inner Focus Kangaskhan, and Raichu deals with Electric- and Water-types in addition to bothering Xerneas and Rayquaza, all of which Suicune doesn't like dealing with. Not every Pokemon is going to work on every team, but that doesn't mean individually they can't work together. Add it in.

With regards to Mega Mawile, double steel isn't unheard of, and Rayquaza doesn't need to mega to function. Mawile works well under Tailwind given the right EV spread and support. With that said, I don't mind if you omit this one. It's a fringe partner for an already more niche Pokemon, and it requires more specific teambuilding.

Other Options
I agree that Calm Mind is outclassed and generally poor, which is why I'd like it added. The bar for Other Options is very low, and I'd prefer an explanation was provided for why that's the case than the reader feel it's an omission.

Checks and Counters
If the tag is now about a single Pokemon then it should be named "Smeargle" and moved below "Bulky Water-types".


Everything you added before is solid, so I'll stamp this to get the ball rolling; don't want to sit on it for too long.

1/2 QC
 
Last edited:

Mr.GX

Mew Mew
is a Tiering Contributor
Set


Team Options
Fake Out users aren't bad because of Inner Focus Kangaskhan, and Raichu deals with Electric- and Water-types in addition to bothering Xerneas and Rayquaza, all of which Suicune doesn't like dealing with. Not every Pokemon is going to work on every team, but that doesn't mean individually they can't work together. Add it in.

Other Options
I agree that Calm Mind is outclassed and generally poor, which is why I'd like it added. The bar for Other Options is very low, and I'd prefer an explanation was provided for why that's the case than the reader feel it's an omission.
Added Raichu, changed sleep to Smeargle and added it below bulky water. You are right, Raichu on its own works with Suicune, though you definitely don't want to lead with them ;)

As for calm mind Suicune, the reason it was used to set up in other formats was bulk. In this format, a boosted Scald does the same thing to groudon, OHKO it, just like regular scald. Icy Wind is not meant to deal damage, its meant to reduce speed, while we get the added effect of 2HKO'ing Rayquaza. As for boosted bulk, it may have been viable on physical tank build in VGC 15, as Suicune can actually last some turns against their physical mons, while setting up to block their special moves. VGC 16? Suicune just survives for 2-3 turns, before going down to neutral hits like Dragon Ascent. You can definitely use that turn you used to set up doing something better like Scald, chip damage, speed control, or even roar to mess up their plays. If this was a Lugia, Calm Mind could be viable, as it can tank more hits, has better speed, etc. The natural special defense combined with calm mind could basically make lugia a monstrous special tank, but Suicune? All it does it last a couple more turns than the rest of the Pokemon, against neutral attacks.
 

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AC = Add Comma
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By the way, I added spaces in between any uses of slashes. For example: "100/115/115" -> "100 / 115 / 115" I've colored those changes this color.

Suicune is one of the more difficult Pokemon to use in this format, (RC) thanks to Primal Groudon and its Desolate Land. However, with the right support, this Pokemon Suicune can catch people off guard, (RC) and take down some of the metagame's biggest threats on its own. Base defensive stats of 100 / 115 / 115 defensive stats gives give Suicune a considerable amount of bulk, along with and its Water typing which makes Suicune weak against only 2 types. Suicune's selective (I don't think this is what you want. Maybe a word like "wide"?) support move pool movepool comes in handy to create various disrupting plays like using Snarl to weaken your opponent's attack offensive options, (RC) and Tailwind to increase your own team's Speed. This Pokemon Suicune became is ("is" would probably be better here, unless Suicune received something new recently that allowed it to do this when it couldn't before. I don't play VGC.) one of the few Pokemon in the metagame that easily resists the Primals both Primal Groudon's Eruption and Primal Kyogre's Water Spout, (RC) while hurting hitting both Primal Groudon and Rayquaza for super effective damage. While Suicune plays a huge supportive role in your team, it exerts little to no offensive pressure against the likes of (Primal?) Kyogre and Xerneas, (RC) and is completely obsolete incapable in Primal Groudon's harsh sun. Pokemon like Thundurus-I Thundurus can easily shut down your its support option with Taunt, (RC) and can knock out KO Suicune with a couple of super effective Thunderbolt Thunder Bolts, while Primal Kyogre completely walls Suicune and can KO it with Thunder. Finally, Suicune works much like Cresselia, (RC) but provides better bulk in a meta-game metagame focused around the Primals Primal Reversions, (RC) as well as helps set up different types of speed control.

[SET]
name: Tailwind Disruptor
move 1: Tailwind
move 2: Scald
move 3: Icy Wind / Ice Beam
move 4: Roar / Snarl
item: Sitrus Berry / Lum Berry
ability: Pressure
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpDef

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Tailwind is your Suicune's main form of speed control, allowing your offensive members to out speed outspeed and KO the opposing Pokemon with their powerful spread moves, (AC) (I don't think the underlined sections should be included, since Tailwind doesn't directly contribute either powerful spread moves or damage). It also helps out speed such as Geomancy boosted Xerneas, which is one of the most overused common Pokemon in the meta game metagame. Scald is your Suicune's primary STAB move to OHKO any opposing Primal Groudon considering you have if Air Lock or Primordial Sea is active Heavy Rain, (RC) and can be used on most physical attackers thanks to the its 30% burn chance. Icy Wind is generally used as an additional form of speed control, (RC) and hits Mega Salamence and Rayquaza super effectively, reducing their Speed in the process, while Ice Beam deals higher amounts of damage to the said those Pokemon. Last but not least, Roar is often used as an option tech to phaze out Geomancy boosted Geomancy-boosted Xerneas to reset their its boosts, (RC) as well as stop the activation of Trick Room, which is really important because Suicune is primarily used on fast, offensive teams considering teams that use Suicune are primarily based on fast offense. Roar also has the added utility of phazing out Smeargle to get rid of annoying Moody boosts. Snarl can be used in the final slot to provide additional disruption, weakening their Primal Kyogre and Xerneas, and works as a more consistent way to weaken a boosted Xerneas (Sounds redundant to me, since you just said Snarl weakens Xerneas. Also, I don't play VGC, but isn't Roar more consistent anyway, since it removes all boosts at once and Geomancy is a 2-turn setup move?).

Set Details
========

Sitrus Berry is used to maximize Suicune's longevity on the field, but Lum Berry can be used to lead against Smeargle users and set up Tailwind as early as possible to begin your team's offensive onslaught. Unfortunately, since Suicune's Hidden Ability isn't officially released, we are it is forced to use Pressure, which doesn't make much of an impact in this format, (AC) other than the fact that is makes making Eruption users run out of PP much faster. This set is EV'd EVed to survive as much as it can take possible on the physical side. 252 HP / 156+ Def 252 HP and 156 Defense EVs along with a Bold nature gives Suicune enough physical bulk so it has to have a 10.5% chance to avoid the 2HKO from Mega Rayquaza's Dragon Ascent survive two Dragon Ascent from Focus Sash Mega Rayquaza. Additionally, this spread makes sure Suicune survives Helping Hand boosted Helping Hand-boosted Focus Sash Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent, which happens to be one of the strongest physical attacks available in the VGC 2016 meta game metagame that can KO most of the Pokemon in the format (Fluff. Already said it's one of the strongest attacks). 252 HP / 100 SpDef 100 Special Defense EVs helps Suicune survive +2 Xerneas's Moonblast 87.5% of the time, which allows it to retaliate with a Roar after taking a hit.

Usage Tips
========

Suicune's primary usage is that of a support Pokemon, similar to Cresselia (Remove comma if you mean "support Pokemon similar to Cresselia" or say "Cresselia's" if you mean similar to Cresselia's usage.). Stay Keep Suicune on the field, (RC) and to disrupt your opponent's Pokemon, (RC) while ensuring you have a form of speed control on the field. Suicune if is often used with Rayquaza to abuse take advantage of Air Lock, allowing you Suicune to hit Talonflame and Primal Groudon with a super effective Scald, which usually OHKO's OHKOes the latter. Leading Suicune against a Trick Room team to Roar their setter away is often the preferred play, though you it should be wary of redirectors. Most people usually lead Suicune should lead with a Fake Out user to help you it set up Tailwind or Roar the opposing threats, allowing you to gain momentum as fast quickly as possible. Icy Wind is commonly used against Ray-Ogre (Is this really what the team is called? I feel more comfortable saying "Rayquaza + (Primal?) Kyogre") teams when paired with a Primal Groudon, as a combination of (Remove a double space here) Eruption and Icy Wind is usually enough to knock out KO a switched in Rayquaza on the switch, securing you the win. Additionally, Icy Wind can be used against teams like Dual Primal that have who has their own Tailwind, which allows your Pokemon to be the fastest on the field. Roar can be uses used against Dual Primal as well to shut down any Trick Room attempt. As people are aware of Roar's existence, they might bait you Suicune into using Roar onto on their Xerneas, only to hit you with a Moonblast or Dazzling Gleam Moonblast/Dazzling Gleam, making you lose momentum.

Team Options
========

Rayquaza makes an excellent partner when paired with any Water-type Pokemon like Kyogre or Suicune. Rayquaza hurts Dragon-types and Primal Kyogre hard, (AC) which usually walls Suicune. Primal Groudon is immune to Electric-type moves, (AC) usually from Thundurus Thundurus-I, forming a good core with Suicune and Rayquaza while providing some switch-in options. Primal Groudon is often used to knock out KO (Mega?) Mawile and Ferrothorn, (AC) two of the meta's metagame's biggest Steel-type threats, which can easily take down any Rayquaza that doesn't run Overheat. It should be noted that Groudon's Desolate Land forms a counter-productive core with Water-types any water types, forcing the player to run weather negating a eather-negating ability like Cloud Nine or Rayquaza's Air Lock for the core to function effectively. As Ray-Ogre / XernOgre (Same comment as from last time. If you keep these team names, use "Ray-Ogre and XernOgre" (why is there a dash in the first but not the second, by the way?)) may be the most difficult match up matchups for this trio, Ferrothorn is often run alongside Suicune, since it hits Kyogre and Xerneas hard for super effective damage. Xerneas itself is a good partner to Suicune, when paired with Rayquaza, since Suicune can stop any Trick Room attempts that thwart your Xerneas, (RC) and also takes down Primal Groudon in Air Lock. Geomancy-boosted Xerneas along with Suicune's Roar to stop Trick Room forms a formidable core. Electric-types such as Thundurus-I Thundurus makes a make solid partners for Suicune, damaging most Water-types like Primal Kyogre that walls Suicune for super effective damage, (RC) while providing an additional form of speed control via Thunder Wave, (RC) and using Taunt to shut down Smeargle, which usually gives Suicune a lots of trouble. Raichu can work in this slot as well, thanks to its Lightning Rod ability (Remove double space here) to draw out Electric-type attacks thanks to its Lightning Rod ability, (RC) and to provide Fake Out support. Steel-types like Scizor are worth a mention, (AC) as it they can help take down XRay (Is this Xerneas + Rayquaza? I really want to insist that you specify the two Pokemon on this one...) teams, which usually uses a (Remove double space here) hyper offensive play style. Scizor's priority attacks can be used to deal with Smeargle as well, one of the most used most-used Pokemon in the format. One of the non-restricted unrestricted Pokemon often used with Suicune is Mega Kangaskhan, (AC) as . (Remove period) Fake Out support is vital to any team when trying to establish a form of speed control.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Mirror Coat can be used to easily OHKO any Xerneas and Thundurus Thundurus-I, as it avoids redirection, (RC) and works as a foolproof plan to beat down the biggest threats in one hit, allowing Suicune to be viable offensively. Assault Vest works well with this strategy, if you don't mind dropping Tailwind, (RC) or if your team has a different form of speed control, though this makes you Suicune much more susceptible to Sleep. Chesto Berry works as a viable option if another Pokemon like Crobat has already taken up is already using Lum Berry, which also opens up another play option in the form of Rest for recovery. Reflect could be used to make your team more physically bulky on the physical side, (RC) to survive powerful attacks from the likes of Mega Rayquaza and their kind more easily, though this makes your Suicune more of a Taunt bait in a best of three environment. Additionally, if you feel like that your team needs more offense, you Suicune can run an offensive set with a Modest nature and 116 Special Attack EVs Sp Atk EV's, (RC) as it will to OHKO Mega Salamence with an Ice Beam; (Add Semicolon) . (Remove period) this, (AC)however, (AC) is not recommended, (AC) as it makes you Suicune much more fragile in a meta game metagame based on powerhouses power houses.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Electric-types**: Electric-types like Thundurus-I Thundurus and Raichu easily knocks out KO Suicune with super effective STAB moves, as they are usually faster than most Pokemon in the format. Thundurus-I Thundurus also has the added aid of Taunt to shut down Suicune's support options, making your support options obsolete (Redundant). Thunder from Primal Kyogre also deals quite some an amount of damage.

**Grass-types**: Bulky Grass-types like (The rest of the sentence seems to only talk about these two examples specifically. Might want to remove this.) Ferrothorn and Amoonguss walls Suicune, (RC) and proceeds to KO it with Power Whip and Leech Seed, while the latter or Spores you it, respectively. These Pokemon also serves as a counters to Mega Kangaskhan, who which is usually paired with Suicune for Fake Out support.

**Bulky Water-types**: With its Special Defense and Water typing, Primal Kyogre walls Suicune, (RC) and can whittle down its health with relative ease, especially if they it runs Thunder for coverage. Other Water-types like Gastrodon and Slowbro walls Suicune with ease as well, so think twice before you Scald into a Storm Drain (I honestly would just remove this, since you should just not be using Scald on Gastrodon, regardless...).

**Smeargle**: Like most Pokemon in the metagame meta game, Suicune suffers from being put to Sleep by Smeargle, who which usually outspeeds it the former, unless you have Tailwind set up. Due to Suicune's mediocre offensive stats, Scald fails to deal sufficient damage to Smeargle, allowing it to use Dark Void on the rest of your Pokemon. This forces players to make a decision as to whether to run Lum Berry or Sitrus Berry.

**Massive Damage**: Despite Suicune's bulk, restricted Pokemon like Xerneas and Mega Rayquaza can easily take down Suicune with little effort unless you predict and out play them (Could be said for almost anything.). The fast paced nature of VGC 2016 forces Suicune players to run a variety of Pokemon that have different types to allow for some decent switching options. (I don't understand why this is here.) Other Pokemon like Mega Kangaskhan deals quite some a lot of damage with Helping Hand support.

**Desolate Land**: Suicune becomes function-less functionless in Primal Groudon's Desolate Land, (RC) and requires the aid of Air Lock to work. This makes Suicune a sitting duck when facing a Primal (Remove double space here) Groudon, (RC) if your Rayquaza has already fainted, forcing you to stall out games with Roar or Icy Wind.
 

Mr.GX

Mew Mew
is a Tiering Contributor
with their powerful spread moves (I don't think the underlined sections should be included, since Tailwind doesn't directly contribute either powerful spread moves or damage)
Thank you for your time GP'ing this, and it was a good amcheck. You foung out several mistakes I missed, and took out most of the junk from the analysis. I'll go through some of the things I found in the GP:

That's the reason Tailwind is usually used in this format, to allow your slow powerful attackers to deal huge chunks of damage with spread moves.

(Is this really what the team is called? I feel more comfortable saying "Rayquaza + (Primal?) Kyogre").
Yeah, VGC 16 has some of the worst team names, but thats what Rayquaza + kyogre is called.

(Same comment as from last time. If you keep these team names, use "Ray-Ogre and XernOgre" (why is there a dash in the first but not the second, by the way?))
Ray-Ogre is called that, as explained in the previous comment, and XernOgre, well, added the "-". That's what Xerneas + Kyogre's popularly called in the VGC community.

(Is this Xerneas + Rayquaza? I really want to insist that you specify the two Pokemon on this one...)
Rayquaza + Xerneas is called XRay, it won a nats, if I recall correctly, and is quite popular.

The fast paced nature of VGC 2016 forces Suicune players to run a variety of Pokemon that have different types to allow for some decent switching options.
(I don't understand why this is here.)
The reason why that sentence is included is because Suicune's just isn't viable in most teams. The huge number of taunter's, smeargle and powerful attackers like xerneas forces suicune to switch around, and for that to work, the rest of the team should be created accordingly. I only know a few successful Suicune teams, and most of them are similar.


Implemented the rest.
 

The Dutch Plumberjack

ace of wands
is a member of the Site Staffis a Top Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris an Administrator
C&C & TFP Leader
re. the team names, i recognise that's what the community calls them, but they're still "slang", and they won't be immediately apparent to players unfamiliar with VGC (as you saw from Eien's check heh), who'll be checking out these analyses. they're basically on the same level as, say, ABR stall, not archetype names that fall under all-round beginner competitive Pokemon knowledge

also eien cleaned this up pretty great



remove
add / fix (comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon)
GP 1/2
[OVERVIEW]

Suicune is one of the more difficult Pokemon to use in this format thanks to Primal Groudon and its Desolate Land. However, with the right support, Suicune can catch people off guard and take down some of the metagame's biggest threats on its own. Base 100 / 115 / 115 defensive stats give Suicune a considerable amount of bulk, and its Water typing makes Suicune weak against to only 2 two types. Suicune's limited support movepool comes in handy to create various disrupting plays like using Snarl to weaken your opponent's offensive options and Tailwind to increase your team's Speed. Suicune is one of the few Pokemon in the metagame that easily resists shrug off ("easily resist" won't fly, either it resists it or it doesn't, and this conveys best what you want) both Primal Groudon's Eruption and Primal Kyogre's Water Spout while hitting both Primal Groudon and Rayquaza for super effective damage. While Suicune plays a huge supportive role in your team, it exerts little to no offensive pressure against the likes of Kyogre and Xerneas and is completely incapable ineffective / helpless in Primal Groudon's harsh sun. Pokemon like Thundurus can easily shut down its support option with Taunt and can KO Suicune with super effective Thunderbolts, while Primal Kyogre completely walls Suicune and KO's KOes it with Thunder. Finally, Suicune works much like Cresselia but provides better bulk in a metagame focused around the Primal Reversions as well as and can help set up different types of speed control.

[SET]
name: Tailwind Disruptor
move 1: Tailwind
move 2: Scald
move 3: Icy Wind / Ice Beam
move 4: Roar / Snarl
item: Sitrus Berry / Lum Berry
ability: Pressure
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpDef

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Tailwind is Suicune's main form of speed control, allowing your offensive members to outspeed and KO the opposing Pokemon with their powerful spread moves, such as Geomancy-boosted (AH) Xerneas, which is one of the most common Pokemon in the metagame. Scald is Suicune's primary STAB move to OHKO any opposing Primal Groudon if Air Lock or Primordial Sea is active and can be used on most physical attackers thanks to its 30% burn chance. Icy Wind is generally used as an additional form of speed control (RC) and hits Mega Salamence and Rayquaza super effectively, reducing their Speed in the process, (redundant)while Ice Beam deals higher amounts of damage to those Pokemon. Last but not least, Roar is often used as an option to phaze Geomancy-boosted Xerneas to reset its boosts as well as stop the activation of Trick Room, which is important because Suicune is primarily used on fast, offensive teams. Roar also has the added utility of phazing Smeargle to get rid of annoying Moody boosts. Snarl can be used in the final slot to provide additional disruption, weakening Primal Kyogre and Xerneas.


Set Details
========

Sitrus Berry is used to maximize Suicune's longevity on the field, but Lum Berry can be used to lead against Smeargle users and set up Tailwind as early as possible to begin your team's offensive onslaught. Unfortunately, since Suicune's Hidden ability, (AC) isn't officially released, it is forced to use Pressure, (fluff / irrelevant) which doesn't make much of an impact in this format, other than making Eruption run out of PP much faster. This set is EVed to survive as much many physical attacks as possible on the physical side. 252 HP and 156 Defense EVs along with a Bold nature give Suicune enough physical bulk to have a 10.5% chance to avoid the 2HKO from Mega Rayquaza's Dragon Ascent. Additionally, this spread makes sure Suicune survives Mega Rayquaza's Helping Hand-boosted Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent, which happens to be one of the strongest physical attacks available in the VGC 2016 metagame. 100 Special Defense EVs help Suicune survive +2 Xerneas's Moonblast 87.5% of the time, which allows it to retaliate with a Roar after taking a hit.

Usage Tips
========

Suicune's primary usage is that of a support Pokemon similar to Cresselia. Keep Suicune on the field to disrupt your opponent's Pokemon while ensuring you have a form of speed control on the field. Suicune is often used with Rayquaza to take advantage of Air Lock, allowing it to hit Talonflame and Primal Groudon with a super effective Scald, which usually OHKOes the latter. Leading Suicune against a Trick Room team to Roar their setter away is often the preferred play, though it should be wary of redirectors. Suicune should lead with a Fake Out user to help it set up Tailwind or Roar phaze the opposing threats, allowing you to gain momentum as quickly as possible. Icy Wind is commonly used against Ray-Ogre Rayquaza + Primal Kyogre teams when paired with a Primal Groudon, as a combination of Eruption and Icy Wind is usually enough to KO Rayquaza on the switch, securing you the win. Additionally, Icy Wind can be used against teams like Dual Primal with both Primal Reversions that have their own Tailwind, which allows your Pokemon to be the fastest on the field. Roar can be used against Dual Primal such teams as well to shut down any Trick Room attempt. As people are aware of Roar's existence, they might bait Suicune into using Roar on their Xerneas, only to hit you with a Moonblast or Dazzling Gleam, making you lose momentum.

Team Options
========

Rayquaza makes an excellent partner when paired with to any Water-type Pokemon like Kyogre or Suicune. Rayquaza hurts Dragon-types and Primal Kyogre hard, which usually wall Suicune. Primal Groudon is immune to Electric-type moves, usually from Thundurus, forming a good core with Suicune and Rayquaza while providing some switch-in options. Primal Groudon It also is often used to KO Mega Mawile and Ferrothorn, two of the metagame's biggest Steel-type threats, which can easily take down any Rayquaza that doesn't run Overheat. It should be noted that Groudon's Desolate Land forms a counter-productive core is counterproductive with Water-types, forcing the player to run a weather-negating ability like Cloud Nine or Rayquaza's Air Lock for the core to function effectively. As Ray-Ogre / Xern-Ogre Mega Rayquaza + Primal Kyogre and Xerneas + Primal Kyogre teams may be the most difficult matchups for this trio, Ferrothorn is often run alongside Suicune, since it hits Kyogre and Xerneas hard for super effective damage. Xerneas itself is a good partner to Suicune, when paired with Rayquaza, since Suicune can stop any Trick Room attempts that thwart Xerneas and also takes down Primal Groudon in when Air Lock is active. Geomancy-boosted Xerneas along with Suicune's Roar to stop Trick Room forms a formidable core. Electric-types such as Thundurus make solid partners for Suicune, damaging most Water-types like Primal Kyogre that wall Suicune for super effective damage while providing an additional form of speed control via Thunder Wave and using Taunt to shut down Smeargle, which usually gives Suicune a lot of trouble. Raichu can work in this slot as well to draw out Electric-type attacks thanks to its Lightning Rod ability and to provide Fake Out support. Steel-types like Scizor are worth a mention as they can help take down XRay Xerneas + Mega Rayquaza teams, which usually use a hyper offensive play style. Scizor's priority attacks can be used to deal with Smeargle as well, one of the most-used Pokemon in the format. One of the unrestricted Pokemon often used with Suicune is Mega Kangaskhan, as Fake Out support is vital to any team when trying to establish a form of speed control.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Mirror Coat can be used to easily OHKO any Xerneas and Thundurus, (AC) as it avoids redirection, (AC) and works as providing a foolproof plan to beat down the biggest threats in one hit (RC) and allowing Suicune to be viable offensively. Assault Vest works well with this strategy, if you don't mind dropping Tailwind or if your team has a different form of speed control, though this makes Suicune much more susceptible to sleep. Chesto Berry works as a viable option if another Pokemon like Crobat is already using Lum Berry, which also opens up another option in the form of Rest for recovery. Reflect could be used to make your team more physically bulky to survive powerful attacks from the likes of Mega Rayquaza though this makes Suicune Taunt bait in a best of three environment. Additionally, if you feel that your team needs more offense, Suicune can run an offensive set with a Modest nature and 116 Special Attack EVs to OHKO Mega Salamence with Ice Beam; this,(space)however, is not recommended, as it makes Suicune much more fragile in a metagame based on centered around powerhouses.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Electric-types**: Electric-types like Thundurus and Raichu easily KO Suicune with super effective STAB moves, as they are usually faster than most Pokemon in the format. Thundurus also has the added aid of Taunt to shut down Suicune's support options. Thunder from Primal Kyogre also deals quite an amount of damage.

**Grass-types**: Grass-types like Ferrothorn and Amoonguss wall Suicune and proceed to KO it with Power Whip and Leech Seed or Spore put it to sleep with Spore, respectively. These Pokemon also serve as counter to Mega Kangaskhan, which is usually paired with Suicune for Fake Out support.

**Bulky Water-types**: With its high Special Defense and Water typing, Primal Kyogre walls Suicune and can whittle down its health with relative ease, especially if it runs Thunder for coverage. Other Water-types like Gastrodon and Slowbro wall Suicune with ease as well.

**Smeargle**: Like most Pokemon in the metagame, Suicune suffers from being put to sleep by Smeargle, which usually outspeeds it, unless you have Tailwind set up. Due to Suicune's mediocre offensive stats, Scald fails to deal sufficient damage to Smeargle, allowing it to use Dark Void on the rest of your Pokemon. This forces players to make a decision as to whether to run Lum Berry or Sitrus Berry.

**Massive Damage Strong Attackers**: Despite Suicune's bulk, restricted Pokemon like Xerneas and Mega Rayquaza can easily take down Suicune with little effort. The fast-paced (AH) nature of VGC 2016 forces Suicune players to run a variety of Pokemon that have different types to allow for some decent switching options. Other Pokemon like Mega Kangaskhan deal quite a lot of damage with Helping Hand support.

**Desolate Land**: Suicune becomes functionless in Primal Groudon's Desolate Land and requires the aid of Air Lock to work. This makes Suicune a sitting duck when facing a Primal Groudon if your Rayquaza has already fainted, forcing you to stall out games with Roar or Icy Wind.
 
Last edited:

Mr.GX

Mew Mew
is a Tiering Contributor
re. the team names, i recognise that's what the community calls them, but they're still "slang", and they won't be immediately apparent to players unfamiliar with VGC (as you saw from Eien's check heh), who'll be checking out these analyses. they're basically on the same level as, say, ABR stall, not archetype names that fall under all-round beginner competitive Pokemon knowledge
Hmm, alright. Implemented. I'm the fastest worker here ;)
 

P Squared

i got a lot of flavor
is a member of the Site Staffis a Top Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
Social Media Leader
GP 2/2
[OVERVIEW]

Suicune is one of the more difficult Pokemon to use in this format thanks to Primal Groudon and its Desolate Land. However, with the right support, Suicune can catch people off guard and take down some of the metagame's biggest threats on its own. Base 100 / 115 / 115 defensive stats give Suicune a considerable amount of bulk, and its Water typing makes Suicune weak to only two types. Suicune's limited support movepool comes in handy to create various disrupting plays like using Snarl to weaken your opponent's offensive options and Tailwind to increase your team's Speed. Suicune is one of the few Pokemon in the metagame that easily shrug off both Primal Groudon's Eruption and Primal Kyogre's Water Spout while hitting both Primal Groudon and Rayquaza for super effective damage. While Suicune plays a huge supportive role in your team, it exerts little to no offensive pressure against the likes of Kyogre and Xerneas and is completely ineffective / (replace with and or or, slashes are uglyyy) helpless in Primal Groudon's harsh sun. Pokemon like Thundurus can easily shut down its support option with Taunt and can KO Suicune with super effective Thunderbolts, while Primal Kyogre completely walls Suicune and KOes it with Thunder. Finally, Suicune works much like Cresselia but provides better bulk in a metagame focused around the Primal Reversions and can help set up different types of speed control. (this is in a weird place, you went from [positive stuff] -> [negative stuff] -> [positive ish concluding statement?]? as a concluding statement it is fine, but starting it with "finally" makes it seem like it was part of a list, so maybe use a diff transition ("in short" or something))

[SET]
name: Tailwind Disruptor
move 1: Tailwind
move 2: Scald
move 3: Icy Wind / Ice Beam
move 4: Roar / Snarl
item: Sitrus Berry / Lum Berry
ability: Pressure
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Tailwind is Suicune's main form of speed control, allowing your offensive team members to outspeed and KO the opposing Pokemon with their powerful spread moves, such as Geomancy-boosted Xerneas, which is one of the most common Pokemon in the metagame. Scald is Suicune's primary STAB move to OHKO any opposing Primal Groudon if Air Lock or Primordial Sea is active and can be used on most physical attackers thanks to its 30% burn chance. Icy Wind is generally used as an additional form of speed control and hits Mega Salamence and Rayquaza super effectively, while Ice Beam deals higher amounts of damage to those Pokemon. Last but not least, Roar is often used as an option to phaze Geomancy-boosted Xerneas to reset its boosts as well as stop the activation of Trick Room, which is important because Suicune is primarily used on fast, offensive teams. Roar also has the added utility of phazing Smeargle to get rid of annoying Moody boosts. Snarl can be used in the final slot to provide additional disruption, weakening Primal Kyogre and Xerneas.

Set Details
========

Sitrus Berry is used to maximize Suicune's longevity, but Lum Berry can be used to lead against Smeargle users and set up Tailwind as early as possible to begin your team's offensive onslaught. Unfortunately, Suicune's ability, Pressure, doesn't make much of an impact in this format, other than making Eruption run out of PP much faster. This set is EVed to survive as many physical attacks as possible. 252 HP and 156 Defense EVs along with a Bold nature give Suicune enough physical bulk to have a 10.5% chance to avoid the 2HKO from Mega Rayquaza's Dragon Ascent. Additionally, this spread makes sure Suicune survives Mega Rayquaza's Helping Hand-boosted Dragon Ascent, which happens to be one of the strongest physical attacks available in the VGC 2016 metagame. 100 Special Defense EVs help Suicune survive +2 Xerneas's Moonblast 87.5% of the time, which allows it to retaliate with a Roar after taking a hit.

Usage Tips
========

Suicune's primary usage is that of a support Pokemon similar to Cresselia. Keep Suicune on the field to disrupt your opponent's Pokemon while ensuring you have a form of speed control on the field. Suicune is often used with Rayquaza to take advantage of Air Lock, allowing it to hit Talonflame and Primal Groudon with a super effective Scald, which usually OHKOes the latter. Leading Suicune against a Trick Room team to Roar their setter away is often the preferred play, though it should be wary of redirectors. Suicune should lead with a Fake Out user to help it set up Tailwind or phaze the opposing threats, allowing you to gain momentum as quickly as possible. Icy Wind is commonly used against Rayquaza + Primal Kyogre teams when paired with a Primal Groudon, as a combination of Eruption and Icy Wind is usually enough to KO Rayquaza on the switch, securing you the win. Additionally, Icy Wind can be used against teams with both Primal Reversions that have their own Tailwind, which allows your Pokemon to be the fastest on the field. Roar can be used against such teams as well to shut down any Trick Room attempt. As people are aware of Roar's existence, they might bait Suicune into using Roar on their Xerneas, only to hit you with a Moonblast or Dazzling Gleam, making you lose momentum.

Team Options
========

Rayquaza makes an excellent partner to any Water-type Pokemon like Kyogre or Suicune. Rayquaza hurts Dragon-types and Primal Kyogre hard, which usually wall Suicune. Primal Groudon is immune to Electric-type moves, usually from Thundurus, forming a good core with Suicune and Rayquaza while providing some switch options. It also is often used to KO Mega Mawile and Ferrothorn, two of the metagame's biggest Steel-type threats, which can easily take down any Rayquaza that doesn't run Overheat. It should be noted that Groudon's Desolate Land is counterproductive with Water-types, forcing the player to run a weather-negating ability like Cloud Nine or Rayquaza's Air Lock for the core to function effectively. As Mega Rayquaza + Primal Kyogre and Xerneas + Primal Kyogre teams may be the most difficult matchups for this trio, Ferrothorn is often run alongside Suicune, since it hits Kyogre and Xerneas hard for super effective damage. Xerneas itself is a good partner to Suicune, when paired with Rayquaza, since Suicune can stop any Trick Room attempts that thwart Xerneas and also takes down Primal Groudon when Air Lock is active. Geomancy-boosted Xerneas along with Suicune's Roar to stop Trick Room forms a formidable core. Electric-types such as Thundurus make solid partners for Suicune, damaging most Water-types like Primal Kyogre that wall Suicune for super effective damage while providing an additional form of speed control via Thunder Wave and using Taunt to shut down Smeargle, which usually gives Suicune a lot of trouble. Raichu can work in this slot as well to draw out Electric-type attacks thanks to its Lightning Rod ability and to provide Fake Out support. Steel-types like Scizor are worth a mention, (ADD COMMA) as they can help take down Xerneas + Mega Rayquaza teams, which usually use a hyper offensive playstyle. Scizor's priority attacks can be used to deal with Smeargle as well, one of the most-used Pokemon in the format. One of the unrestricted Pokemon often used with Suicune is Mega Kangaskhan, as Fake Out support is vital to any team when trying to establish a form of speed control.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Mirror Coat can be used to easily OHKO any Xerneas and Thundurus, as it avoids redirection, providing a foolproof plan to beat down the biggest threats in one hit and allowing Suicune to be viable offensively. Assault Vest works well with this strategy, if you don't mind dropping Tailwind or if your team has a different form of speed control, though this makes Suicune much more susceptible to sleep. Chesto Berry works as a viable option if another Pokemon like Crobat is already using Lum Berry, which also opens up another option in the form of Rest for recovery. Reflect could be used to make your team more physically bulky to survive powerful attacks from the likes of Mega Rayquaza, (ADD COMMA) though this makes Suicune Taunt bait in a best of three environment. Additionally, if you feel that your team needs more offense, Suicune can run an offensive set with a Modest nature and 116 Special Attack EVs to OHKO Mega Salamence with Ice Beam; this, however, is not recommended, as it makes Suicune much more fragile in a metagame centered around powerhouses.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Electric-types**: Electric-types like Thundurus and Raichu easily KO Suicune with super effective STAB moves, as they are usually faster than most Pokemon in the format. Thundurus also has the added aid of Taunt to shut down Suicune's support options. Thunder from Primal Kyogre also deals quite an amount of damage.

**Grass-types**: Grass-types like Ferrothorn and Amoonguss wall Suicune and proceed to KO it with Power Whip and Leech Seed or put it to sleep with Spore, respectively. These Pokemon also serve as counters to Mega Kangaskhan, which is usually paired with Suicune for Fake Out support.

**Bulky Water-types**: With its high Special Defense and Water typing, Primal Kyogre walls Suicune and can whittle down its health with relative ease, especially if it runs Thunder for coverage. Other Water-types like Gastrodon and Slowbro wall Suicune with ease as well.

**Smeargle**: Like most Pokemon in the metagame, Suicune suffers from being put to sleep by Smeargle, which usually outspeeds it, unless you have Tailwind set up. Due to Suicune's mediocre offensive stats, Scald fails to deal sufficient damage to Smeargle, allowing it to use Dark Void on the rest of your Pokemon. This forces players to make a decision as to whether to run Lum Berry or Sitrus Berry.

**Strong Attackers**: Despite Suicune's bulk, restricted Pokemon like Xerneas and Mega Rayquaza can easily take down Suicune with little effort. The fast-paced (AH) (keep the hyphen but remove the comments) nature of VGC 2016 forces Suicune players to run a variety of Pokemon that have different types to allow for some decent switching options. Other Pokemon like Mega Kangaskhan deal quite a lot of damage with Helping Hand support.

**Desolate Land**: Suicune becomes functionless in Primal Groudon's Desolate Land and requires the aid of Air Lock to work. This makes Suicune a sitting duck when facing a Primal Groudon if your Rayquaza has already fainted, forcing you to stall out games with Roar or Icy Wind.
 

Mr.GX

Mew Mew
is a Tiering Contributor
GP 2/2
The fast-paced (AH) (keep the hyphen but remove the comments) nature of VGC 2016 forces Suicune players to run a variety of Pokemon that have different types to allow for some decent switching options. Other Pokemon like Mega Kangaskhan deal quite a lot of damage with Helping Hand support.
Implemented, but didn't get what you meant by the remove the comment thing in the last paragraph.
 
Implemented, but didn't get what you meant by the remove the comment thing in the last paragraph.
They meant remove the "(AH)" bit, but keep the hyphen between "fast" and "paced". Don't worry, you made the right change.

This has been uploaded.
 

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