Other Victim of the Week! (Round III)

[LightningLuxray]

Ok here's mine :)

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 212 SDef / 252 HP / 44 Spd
Calm Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

Check or Counter: Check (Decided to go with Check since Dark Pulse does a decent amount after Stealth Rocks)

Rotom-W takes minimal damage from Greninja's attacks, and can easily Hydro Pump/Volt Switch for good damage.. Pain Split can also be used to help wear down its health if Rotom is getting weak. Anyways, I think it'd be best to let the calcs do the talking :)

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Rotom-W: 58-69 (19 - 22.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Rotom-W: 103-122 (33.8 - 40.1%) -- 30.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Rotom-W: 103-122 (33.8 - 40.1%) -- 30.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Rotom-W: 70-83 (23 - 27.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 210-248 (73.4 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (When Water-type)
0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 163-193 (56.9 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (When Ice/Dark/Psychic-type)

So yeah, there you go! A Pokemon who can switch into Greninja's attacks with ease while also helping gain momentum / spread status for the rest of the team.

 

[Phenomenaut]

Sylveon @Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252SpD / 252HP / 4SpA
Calm Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Heal Bell
- Protect

Check or Counter: Counter

Guaranteed 2HKO against Greninja with Hyper Voice. If Sylveon swaps into Hydro Pump there's a small chance for a 3HKO if rocks are up, by Sylveon can Protect Wish Protect to avoid that. None of the other moves Greninja has pose any threat.

 

[LightningLuxray]

Florges @Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 252SpD / 252HP / 4SpA
Calm Nature
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Aromatherapy
- Protect

Check or Counter: Counter

Guaranteed 2HKO against Greninja with Moonblast. Only mildly threatening move Greninja has is Hydro Pump, but even with rocks up it can't 3HKO if Florges uses protect for the extra Leftovers recovery.

I'd definitely recommend using Sylveon as an example instead of Florges; check the Archive of this post to see why: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/dont-use-that-use-this-xy-ou-edition.3499671/

 

[Phenomenaut]

I'd definitely recommend using Sylveon as an example instead of Florges; check the Archive of this post to see why: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/dont-use-that-use-this-xy-ou-edition.3499671/

Will swap that then.

 

[thattallguy]

Throwing a possibility out there- please point out any errors I've got.

Goodra: Possible check? Ice beam is the only real potential threat Greninja has to Goodra, in my opinion. Goodra can come in on any of the other three attacks, and finish Greninja with Thunderbolt, Power Whip, or Energy Ball, thanks to Life Orb damage, and can still survive Stealth Rocks, Extrasensory/Hydro Pump/Dark Pulse, and Ice Beam. Even with two layers of spikes on top of this, Goodra will still stay alive to make the KO.

Goodra @ Assault Vest
Ability: Gooey
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Sp Atk / 4 Spd
Calm Nature
-Dragon Pulse
-Power Whip/Energy Ball/Thunderbolt (Mine uses Power Whip, though now that I look at it, there's about a 25% chance Greninja would just barely survive a hit)
-Flamethrower
-Sludge Wave

In the chance Greninja would survive the Power Whip, another attack from Greninja would be its own demise, ending in a double KO.

 

[AM]

Throwing a possibility out there- please point out any errors I've got.

Goodra: Possible check? Ice beam is the only real potential threat Greninja has to Goodra, in my opinion. Goodra can come in on any of the other three attacks, and finish Greninja with Thunderbolt, Power Whip, or Energy Ball, thanks to Life Orb damage, and can still survive Stealth Rocks, Extrasensory/Hydro Pump/Dark Pulse, and Ice Beam. Even with two layers of spikes on top of this, Goodra will still stay alive to make the KO.

Goodra @ Assault Vest
Ability: Gooey
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Sp Atk / 4 Spd
Calm Nature
-Dragon Pulse
-Power Whip/Energy Ball/Thunderbolt (Mine uses Power Whip, though now that I look at it, there's about a 25% chance Greninja would just barely survive a hit)
-Flamethrower
-Sludge Wave

In the chance Greninja would survive the Power Whip, another attack from Greninja would be its own demise, ending in a double KO.

Goodra can sponge the hits from everything except Ice Beam. However the question you would have to consider is can it sponge two Ice Beams after Stealth Rock damage with this particular set. From personal experience I know this may not be the case but a specially defensive variant may do the trick. Also consider that you would be using Flamethrower as Greninja's typing would be Ice from the use of Ice Beam in combination with Protean.

 

[thattallguy]

Goodra can sponge the hits from everything except Ice Beam. However the question you would have to consider is can it sponge two Ice Beams after Stealth Rock damage with this particular set. From personal experience I know this may not be the case but a specially defensive variant may do the trick. Also consider that you would be using Flamethrower as Greninja's typing would be Ice from the use of Ice Beam in combination with Protean.

Oh, right, I keep forgetting about that Protean part. I just checked the calcs, Goodra's flamethrower on that set should be enough to take out Greninja almost every time, taking Life Orb damage into account, and should still be able to survive one of it's non-Ice Beam attacks, Stealth Rock, and an Ice Beam.

252+ SpA Goodra Flamethrower vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 254-300 (88.8 - 104.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO (not including Life Orb). You could also run Fire Blast if you feel like risking the miss for more power.


This definitely would not be an optimal counter though. But I think it would play out in Goodra's favor if it came down to it.

Edit: In direct response to what you said about sponging a 2nd Ice Beam:
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 151-182 (39.3 - 47.3%) -- 47.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Can't say I'd want to risk that. But I don't think Greninja would get the second Ice Beam unless he predicted the switch and use it on the switch in as well.

 

[Flan76]

Gooey is ass on goodra. Use sap sipper.

TL;DR: Gooey is ass on goodra. Use sap sipper.

 

[Zebstrika]

Porygon2: Counter

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Toxic

Your general tank Porygon2. This one is specially defensive only because it handles the most common Greninja better, but physically defensive Porygon2 works fine as long as it stays healthy. Not only does Porygon2 counter Greninja, it counters every Greninja set, and it Traces Protean which makes it suddenly very deadly, even if Greninja U-Turns out.

Some calcs:

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 99-118 (26.4 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

This is the strongest attack the OP's set can do, along with basically every other specially attacking Greninja. Unless Porygon2 hits Toxic, there's no good move Greninja runs that can hit a Porygon2 for Super Effective damage besides Hidden Power (which would only be 35.5% max) or Rock Slide vs. Ice Porygon2 (this is only on physical Greninja so you should recognize the possibility right away).

Physically defensive Porygon2 is fine as I said earlier, it still only takes 44% max from Hydro Pump.

Even if it's a physical Greninja, the strongest attack it has Return, followed by Waterfall:

252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Return vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 129-152 (34.4 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Greninja Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 99-118 (26.4 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Easy for Porygon2 to Recover off more than it takes.

Also, Porygon2 can handle the chip damage from U-Turn a few times, especially since it gets Protean out of the deal.

4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja U-turn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 70-83 (18.7 - 22.1%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja U-turn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 87-105 (23.2 - 28%) -- 86.3% chance to 4HKO

Offensively, Porygon2 can spam Discharge and Ice Beam and there's not much Greninja can do about it. Factoring in Protean, both moves are guaranteed 2HKO on two neutral hits and two turns of life orb recoil.

Then Porygon2 beasts its way through the opponent's team with Protean.

 

[President Shinra]

Mega Tyranitar: Check

Tyranitar-Mega @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Superpower

Tyranitar-Mega is a check that requires some prediction, but it still works. The reason behind this is that Tyranitar can only take one Hydro Pump in the sand, but all of the other moves on the set are easily brushed off. So, Tyranitar can only be brought in when you can lure out any of the other moves on the Greninja's set.

Calcs against Mega Tyranitar:
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 94-110 (23.2 - 27.2%)
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 42-49 (10.3 - 12.1%)
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 226-268 (55.9 - 66.3%)

Regular Tyranitar:
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 109-129 (26.9 - 31.9%)
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 48-57 (11.8 - 14.1%)
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 265-315 (65.5 - 77.9%)

And retaliating:
252+ Atk Mega Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 297-349 (103.8 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So, since Mega Tyranitar cannot come in on all of Greninja's moves, it is a check, not a counter.

 

[thattallguy]

Mega Tyranitar: Check

Tyranitar-Mega @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Superpower

Tyranitar-Mega is a check that requires some prediction, but it still works. The reason behind this is that Tyranitar can only take one Hydro Pump in the sand, but all of the other moves on the set are easily brushed off. So, Tyranitar can only be brought in when you can lure out any of the other moves on the Greninja's set.

Calcs against Mega Tyranitar:
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 94-110 (23.2 - 27.2%)
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 42-49 (10.3 - 12.1%)
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 226-268 (55.9 - 66.3%)

Regular Tyranitar:
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 109-129 (26.9 - 31.9%)
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 48-57 (11.8 - 14.1%)
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 265-315 (65.5 - 77.9%)

And retaliating:
252+ Atk Mega Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 297-349 (103.8 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So, since Mega Tyranitar cannot come in on all of Greninja's moves, it is a check, not a counter.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Stealth Rock or Spikes would throw this a bit off here. If you come in on an Ice Beam with Stealth Rock, Spikes, or even Toxic Spikes, you wouldn't be able to take that Hydro Pump, nor would you be fast enough to take out Greninja with Stone Edge. An Assault Vest might give you the bulk that would do it though.

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 74-87 (18.3 - 21.5%) -- possible 5HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 174-211 (43 - 52.2%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO

Actually, Stone Edge with the Assault Vest also wouldn't quite be powerful enough to finish the job reliably...
252+ Atk Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 255-301 (89.1 - 105.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO