Victim Of The Week [VoTW #27 - Zygarde / Zygarde-Complete]

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I have to vote on Jhon's Latias on this one. Such an unexpectedly great check to Blaziken, all it has is Knock Off to murder it and no one runs that anymore since it isn't needed as much. I probably would have voted for Gyarados since it checks non-thunder punch variants very well but there has been too many times where I've switched in a Gyarados on Blaziken only to get hit by Thunder Punch while doing so :/
 
Congratulations to GateCreeper and Jhon for winning VoTW 21 (Blaziken + Mega-Blaziken) with your submissions of Mega-Salamence and Latias! Your posts will be logged into the archive.
Victim of the week #22 - Ferrothorn



Decided to go with a really annoying mon this week. We've got Ferrothorn. Steel / Grass typing grants Ferrothron some amazing resistances, which is coupled really nicely alongside its amazing bulk. Utility sets are the most common, often featuring many support options which can benefit your team such as Stealth Rock, Leech Seed, Knock Off and Thunder Wave. Despite typically being used as support, Ferrothorn's offensive capabilities are no laughing manner. Access to powerful STAB options such as Power Whip and the usually powerful Gyro Ball make Ferrothorn rather threatening, even as a typical support poke. Though even with that being said, Choice Band sets are a nice switch to make Ferrothorn a rather powerful wallbreaker, dealing heavy damage with both STAB and coverage options. So, how do you deal with Ferrothorn?

Submissions are open and will be closed in four days from now. Best of luck everyone!
 
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Venusaur-Mega @ Venusaurite
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Bold Nature
- Synthesis
- Leech Seed / Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power Fire

Inb4 all the fire-type suggestions, how about something that can come in on Leech Seed for free and threaten our favorite nut with a super effective move or a teammate with its own annoying seeds? Also no Stealth Rock weakness, all in one fat package!

0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (113 BP) vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Mega Venusaur: 42-49 (22.4 - 26.2%) -- 9.4% chance to 4HKO

0 SpA Mega Venusaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Ferrothorn: 96-116 (53 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Mega Venusaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 72-88 (39.7 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
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Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 212 HP / 44 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flamethrower / Lava Plume / Magma Storm
- Earth Power / Taunt
- Protect / Substitute
- Toxic

Heatran is one of the ultimate Ferrothorn killing machines. Even with practically no investment a Heatran can kill most Ferrothorns easily with a Lava Plume. For a Ferrothorn user, a Heatran is a free switch at best, and a seeded/paralyzed Heatran at worst.

Heatran is not particularly restrained on what moves you give it. You can Taunt a Ferrothorn to prevent it from using Seeds, hazards, or T.Wave. You can Sub to avoid Seeds, Knock Off, or T.Wave. You can just Lava Plume or Flamethrower to kill it, or set up Rocks if you're confident of a switch (provided you carry these moves).

Meanwhile, the most Ferrothorn can do is Bulldoze, but even then, Banded Bulldoze only OHKOes the Lefties set 25% of the time, and the offensive sets make Ferrothorn fold since it sacrifices the needed bulk to survive.

Edit: I changed it to the defensive/stallbreaker set, although realistically any Heatran set can work to whip Ferrothorn, so long as a Fire move is present. The fire move for my set is most varied, as you can choose between a decent burn chance, more damage, and a trapping opportunity, and no particular one is absolutely better than the other if you run Toxic, otherwise play Lava Plume.

Offensive sets can work just as easily as defensive sets, and Heatran is one of those Pokemon you can tailor to fit your team's needs accordingly.
 
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Blaziken @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Protect
- Baton Pass
- Flare Blitz / Blaze Kick

This is a lead set that can not only take on Ferrothorn, but their teammates as well if played correctly. Speed Boost, Protect and Focus Sash takes Blaziken's speed to +3 at least. Blaziken can set up Swords Dance or hit it with Flare Blitz or Blaze Kick while 'thorn is on the field. Baton Pass is mandatory to pass its boosts to teammates that really benefit from these boosts such as Mega Mawile, Mega Heracross and Mega Scizor.

252 Atk Blaziken Blaze Kick vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 192-228 (106 - 125.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 53-63 (34.1 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 42-51 (27 - 32.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
 

Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Focus Blast
- Overheat / HP Ice / Roost / EQ / Flame Charge

Ferrothorn can't do anything against the god of sun. With its ability, movepool and good offensive stats, Mega-Charizard Y is a perfect counter.

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn in Sun: 352-420 (194.4 - 232%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 232-280 (128.1 - 154.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

The only thing Ferro can do is spamming Gyro Ball with the CB set on a switch
252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 103-122 (67.3 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 61-72 (39.8 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
 
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Charlotte

formerly Jhon
is a Tiering Contributor
dogknees We tied 4-4!

Anyway, Entei.

Entei @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 20 HP / 236 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Protect

Sacred Fire KOs 252/252+ Def Ferro and, unless you switch in on seeds, you can be pretty happy to sub up and start pressure/toxic stalling their switch-in.
Also, Sacred Fire is non-contact so you avoid the nasty Iron Barbs and possible Rocky Helmet.
236 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 192-228 (106 - 125.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 20 HP / 0 Def Entei: 37-44 (19.1 - 22.7%)
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 20 HP / 0 Def Entei: 46-54 (23.8 - 27.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
Gyro can break subs, but it only has 8pp, which depletes very quickly with pressure.

252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Bulldoze vs. 20 HP / 0 Def Entei: 104-124 (53.8 - 64.2%)
 
What's the best way to humiliate someone who uses Ferrothorn? Kill it by using leech seed against it, because who can't resist using Leech seed against a non-grass type?

Swalot @ Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Ooze
Level: 50
EVs: 228 HP / 244 Def / 20 SpA / 12 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Pain Split
- Substitute

Swalot can wall the heck out of Ferrothorn thanks to it resisting both stabs to the point that a substitute Swalot puts up is only 2hko'd by Ferrothorn. Hp fire is what most non-fire types run to hit Ferrothorn, with Swalot being no exception. Substitute is important because it makes it much easier for Swalot to do it's job. Pain Split lets swalot take on a healthy Ferrothorn even after it takes a big hit, along with getting chip damage down. The HP Ev's are to hit 204 HP which gives swalot 51 hp subs for seismic toss users, and when paired with the defense EV's makes anything short of a gyro ball crit not break the sub (unless there are 5 bullet seed crits that get a high roll). 20 Spa ev's gives the 3hko to Swalot on Ferro, along with hitting fairies better (so Swalot is not dead weight against anything else). Liquid Ooze is a nice abillity because it makes leech seed deal 12% damage instead of giving that hp to Ferrothorn, which is very nice as almost free chip damage against anything that Swalot faces. Oh it also does good against banded ferro (outspeeds at -3 and can 3hko).

Offensive: 20 SpA Swalot Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Ferrothorn: 68-80 (37.5 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Defensive: 0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 228 HP / 244+ Def Swalot: 26-31 (12.7 - 15.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (86 BP) vs. 228 HP / 244+ Def Swalot: 39-46 (19.1 - 22.5%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Ferrothorn Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 228 HP / 244+ Def Swalot: 29-35 (14.2 - 17.1%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Ferrothorn Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 228 HP / 244+ Def Swalot: 30-35 (14.7 - 17.1%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
also:
252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Bulldoze vs. 228 HP / 244+ Def Swalot: 76-90 (37.2 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery [Still beats banded ferro]
 


Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 244 HP / 252 SpD / 12 Spe or 12 Def
Sassy Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Yep. I don't have to explain what defensive Celesteela does or why she cockblocks everything Ferro tries to do, but hey, have some calcs anyway:

252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Celesteela: 72-85 (35.4 - 41.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (84 BP) vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Celesteela: 22-27 (10.8 - 13.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever
0 SpA Celesteela Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 96-116 (53 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
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(I'm back...)
Ferro have been a threat against meta since beggining lol. Extremely defensive and can run some gimminicky full Attack sets (like the one with band I've seen). This is because I'm nomating Thundurus-Therian:

Thundurus-Therian @ Fightium-Z
Modest/Timid Nature
Ability: Volt absorb
252 Sp.Atk/ 252 Spe / 4 HP
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Nasty Plot / Agility
- HP Ice / Sludge Wave

Focus-Z can do massive damage against ferro, even if it is max SpDef:

252 SpA Thundurus-T All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 154-182 (85 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Thundurus-T All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 170-200 (93.9 - 110.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO


The other moves are classic. Thunderbolt for stab. Volt switch in case of a switch predict. HP Ice against gliscor, Landorus and Garchomp. Sludge wave in case you got problems with tapus and other fairies. The third slot is by your decision. Nasty plot aids with Stall teams, while Agility ensure enough speed to bypass even scarf sets! The good of using this Thundurus-T is that your opponent will never know if he/she is dealing with a Focus-Z or a Electrium-Z. This allows you to setup your agility or nasty plot and if played well can grants your victory.
 
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Volcarona @ Focus Sash/ Firium Z
Ability: Flame Body
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Bug Buzz/ Giga Drain
- Hidden Power Ice/ Hidden Power Ground
- Quiver Dance

Volcarona can come in on Ferrothorn and set up with impunity, turning it into a liability for the opponent and shifting the momentum heavily in your favor, possibly even resulting in a sweep!
 
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cant say

twitch.tv/jakecantsay
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Volcarona @ Focus Sash/ Firium Z/ Buginiun Z
Ability: Flame Body/ Swarm
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast/ Flamethrower
- Giga Drain/ Bug Buzz/ Roost
- Hidden Power Ice/ Hidden Power Ground/ Bug Buzz/ Roost
- Quiver Dance

Volcarona can come in on Ferrothorn and set up with impunity, turning it into a liability for the opponent and shifting the momentum heavily in your favor, possibly even resulting in a sweep! The worst Volca has to fear from Ferrothorn is Stealth Rock, as if the opponent has a reliable counter to Volca Stealth Rock will wear it down very quickly. If you are really afraid of SR, you could run a bulkier set with Roost, or even run Roost on an offensive set to heal back the damage from SR.
I know we allow slashes on sets but jesus dude
 
I know we allow slashes on sets but jesus dude
L o l. Fine, I'll edit it. How few slashes would suit your taste? Is this fine?
- Fire Blast
- Bug Buzz/ Giga Drain
- Hidden Power Ice/ Hidden Power Ground/ Roost
- Quiver Dance
Or would fewer be more to your liking? But also
Heatran @ Leftovers / Grassium Z
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 212 HP / 44 SpA / 252 Spe (if Lefties) OR 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe (If Grassium Z)
Timid Nature
- Flamethrower / Lava Plume / Magma Storm
- Toxic / Earth Power / Solar Beam
- Earth Power / Taunt /Stealth Rock
- Protect / Substitute
I'm not the only one lol.
 
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cant say

twitch.tv/jakecantsay
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L o l. Fine, I'll edit it. How few slashes would suit your taste? Is this fine?
- Fire Blast
- Bug Buzz/ Giga Drain
- Hidden Power Ice/ Hidden Power Ground/ Roost
- Quiver Dance
Or would fewer be more to your liking? But also

I'm not the only one lol.
It's difficult to put a number on the amount of slashes. The one rule of the thread is that you nominate one set. If you slash several items and abilities you're just nominating the pokemon in general and not a specific set. moveset slashes are more lenient but if you're including slashes for defensive moves with offensive moves and making a mention of the defensive variant in your description then it becomes clear you're just nominating volcarona and have no idea what set you're focusing on.

As for the heatran, fair enough, I missed that.


Heatran @ Leftovers / Grassium Z
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 212 HP / 44 SpA / 252 Spe (if Lefties) OR 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe (If Grassium Z)
Timid Nature
- Flamethrower / Lava Plume / Magma Storm
- Toxic / Earth Power / Solar Beam
- Earth Power / Taunt /Stealth Rock
- Protect / Substitute

Heatran is one of the ultimate Ferrothorn killing machines. Even with practically no investment a Heatran can kill most Ferrothorns easily with a Lava Plume. For a Ferrothorn user, a Heatran is a free switch at best, and a seeded/paralyzed Heatran at worst.

Heatran is not particularly restrained on what moves you give it. You can Taunt a Ferrothorn to prevent it from using Seeds, hazards, or T.Wave. You can Sub to avoid Seeds, Knock Off, or T.Wave. You can just Lava Plume or Flamethrower to kill it, or set up Rocks if you're confident of a switch (provided you carry these moves).

Meanwhile, the most Ferrothorn can do is Bulldoze, but even then, Banded Bulldoze only OHKOes the Lefties set 25% of the time, and the offensive sets make Ferrothorn fold since it sacrifices the needed bulk to survive.
You need to nominate one Heatran set, not a Heatran in general and then slash all its options. Choose an item and an EV spread. You can slash moves but make sure they're relevant to the set you're nominating (ie: Solar Beam doesn't go on a defensive set and Protect doesn't go on an offensive one).
 
@ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Synthesis
- Spore

Immune to seeds, and can tank it to death with the combination of RH + Synth or just fire back with HP.

0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (35 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 18-22 (8.1 - 9.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (35 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 36-43 (16.2 - 19.4%) -- possible 6HKO

0 SpA Amoonguss Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 72-88 (39.7 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
 
Submissions are now closed! There are to be no edits of your own Pokemon, nor are there to be any new submissions. A few quick things to note;
  • Voting will close on the 8/7 at 12:30pm GMT+11 (8:30pm EST 7/7), where the next Vitim Of The Week will also be announced
  • You can't vote for your own submission
  • You can only change your vote once, so think carefully before doing so
  • You can vote even if you haven't made a submission. It is expected that you vote if you did submit yourself, but not compulsory
On mobile so I couldn't do the whole hides thing, but I'll make a link to each post when I get home.
Best of luck everybody!
 
Voting for Moose And Goose's Swalot. Okay, sure, Swalot isn't going to get that instant 0HKO nor does it have the most potent setup (though it does get access to some setup moves). But HP Fire will eventually kill it, and Swalot walls Ferro very well, even with the rare banded Bulldoze. Furthermore, unlike most of the others (except Amoongus), it has access to good active recovery with Pain Split, so it's a better pivot/recovery Poke than everyone else.

Also I'm a sucker for off-meta Pokes so there's that :P
 

Charlotte

formerly Jhon
is a Tiering Contributor
3heartschall's Thundurus-T
Something I noticed the other day while wondering if Focus Blast was worth it on a Thundurus I was using to check M-Mence, is that Ferro and Mence are top3 most common partners for each other. Having a check to both compressed into one slot is pretty nice, especially convenient for Thundurus as a SR weak setup mon which doesn't want to be switching in and out.
That and no-one posted defensive Zapdos with Heat Wave.
 
Solerme's Amoonguss
It is immune to Leech Seed and Toxic, doesn't really fear Knock Off or Thunder Wave, takes basically no damage from any attack a Ferrothorn would ever run while dealing chip damage with Rocky Helmet or solid damage with Hidden Power Fire, forces Ferrothorn to switch out and has an accurate sleep-inducing move to punish that while having passive recovery in the form of Regenerator to heal even if Amoonguss itself is forced out before it can use Synthesis which allows it to wall Ferrothorn repeatedly for ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever...

It was between this and Mega Venusaur for me. Amoonguss wins because it comes without a Mega Stone and heals passively.
 
That and no-one posted defensive Zapdos with Heat Wave.
I thought about it, but something that can come in on Leech Seed for free was my first thought about how to approach Ferro.

With that being said, my vote goes to Solerme's Amoonguss for doing almost the same as Venusaur, but trades a little bit of power and a weakness to Fire and Ice for Spore, which is even more threatening than Leech Seed imo, and Regenerator can come in clutch if played right, even in 3v3.
 

ethan06

⋖(☼┆☼)⋗
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Psychobuzz's Blaziken. This thing goes past countering Ferrothorn; if you get this thing in in front of a Ferrothorn then you get to click Swords Dance and often win the game no matter what else they brought. Mega is for sure better but being able to gain that level of initiative just because Ferrothorn is on the field, making it a total liability, puts it head and shoulders above the defensive counters on this slate for me.
 
Jhon's Entei, cause sacred fire +sub toxic is an absolute menace and way too good to pass up on. Switch ins often fear the burn and if they're slower and you don't get a burn, toxic after a sub can really put a timer on the game.

Amoongus would've been my vote but I've used entei and can speak to it's effectiveness alot better. And honestly, how cool does a mushroom look compared to entei?
 
Voting for Solerme's Amoonguss, something that come in on Leech Seed and threaten Ferrothorn is a great check or counter to it in my opinion. The reasons why I'm picking this over Mega Venusaur are pretty much the same as Nelson Tangela's, along with the fact that Mega Venusaur takes a lot more damage from Banded Gyro Ball. Spore to punish switch-ins harder is amazing too.

Mega Venusaur may be the better pokemon in this format overall, but Amoonguss definitely deals with Ferrothorn a lot better.
 
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