Actually the only bulky water that switches in to my Volcarona is Jellicent, who is basically setup fodder and is then muscled through with Volcarona's boosted special attacks. The main other bulky water is Suicune, and it'll not be liking boosted STAB Bug Buzz... Swampert sucks and Vaporeon is also pretty much setup fodder. Ulgamoth isn't liking Toxic, but you should be able to sweep within that time.
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Volcarona
- Thread starter Rising_Dusk
- Start date
Actually the only bulky water that switches in to my Volcarona is Jellicent, who is basically setup fodder and is then muscled through with Volcarona's boosted special attacks. The main other bulky water is Suicune, and it'll not be liking boosted STAB Bug Buzz... Swampert sucks and Vaporeon is also pretty much setup fodder. Ulgamoth isn't liking Toxic, but you should be able to sweep within that time.
I've been meaning to give my Scizor quick attack for a while to dispose of those who resist bullet punch more easily.
This definitely looks very nice, sadly that won't fly on the 252/252 variants.. Is it a 2HKO after stealth rocks? And how much of a difference will it be from Bullet Punch in the same situation?
Scizor totally could use Aqua Jet right now, but obviously that's not possible because he's a fat ass steel type that can't swim, much less being capable of farting out water to propel himself.
i agree; it's great. it makes it much easier to set up on bulky waters and even Heatran since you could set up until their attacks are doing paltry amounts of damage, and then just rest off the Toxic or w/e and sweep
Dual Screens, or atleast Reflect, is something this guy really appreciates while setting up. It already gives him some bonusbulk to setup in, which makes it a lot easier to gain those boosts. Even with minimal offensive investments, it becomes deadly after 3 Butterfly Dances.
ChestoRest seems nice, and I will try that sooner or later, but at the moment, I'm happy with BD/Bug Buzz/Flame Dance/HP Rock. It also makes me able to kill some pesky pokémon like Gyarados and a lot of other flying foes. Heatran is actually not really a problem. Unless you face a very rare physical set with Stone Edge, it won't hurt be able to hurt you with it's attacks, while you can just set up on it and still hurt it with Bug Buzz or HP Rock at +6. Watch out for Roar though.
ChestoRest seems nice, and I will try that sooner or later, but at the moment, I'm happy with BD/Bug Buzz/Flame Dance/HP Rock. It also makes me able to kill some pesky pokémon like Gyarados and a lot of other flying foes. Heatran is actually not really a problem. Unless you face a very rare physical set with Stone Edge, it won't hurt be able to hurt you with it's attacks, while you can just set up on it and still hurt it with Bug Buzz or HP Rock at +6. Watch out for Roar though.
Fire Dance > Fire Blast in every way.
Here are its advantages:
*It has 100% accuracy
*The loss in power doesn't matter after Fire Dance boosts Volcarona's (this name was officially revealed) Special Attack.
*It has more PP.
All of these advantages are extremely useful for a Pokémon such as Volcarona, and if Volcarona is Tricked into holding a Choice item.
Here are its advantages:
*It has 100% accuracy
*The loss in power doesn't matter after Fire Dance boosts Volcarona's (this name was officially revealed) Special Attack.
*It has more PP.
All of these advantages are extremely useful for a Pokémon such as Volcarona, and if Volcarona is Tricked into holding a Choice item.
The damage is still pretty high in the sun, though.
Can't compete with Fire Blast in the sun: the difference in power between both attacks is even higher.
In the sun i would say Fire Blast over Fire Dance; if using without sun support Fire Dance may be best.
In the sun i would say Fire Blast over Fire Dance; if using without sun support Fire Dance may be best.
Oh i wished it had Tinted Lens. Imagine something lanching nearly unresisted sun boosted Fire Blasts all over...
They're both good, but with a Butterfly Dance set I prefer Flame Dance. It'll make your power increase further and further without having to BD over and over. Do one or two BDances and then let loose fiery fury! It'll break down walls eventually, and it doesnt miss and cost you the match like Fire Blast.
On a set thats less setup oriented I could see Fire Blast being more optimal as it hits hard right away with no preparation. But I always send Mothy out first and I would prefer to buff him up as much as possible asap AND bowl down as much as I can without switching him out (SR). Flame Dance aids with the bowling and allows him to stay in against things like Blissey as he'll eventually gain enough Special Attack to knock it down.
On a set thats less setup oriented I could see Fire Blast being more optimal as it hits hard right away with no preparation. But I always send Mothy out first and I would prefer to buff him up as much as possible asap AND bowl down as much as I can without switching him out (SR). Flame Dance aids with the bowling and allows him to stay in against things like Blissey as he'll eventually gain enough Special Attack to knock it down.
I've been having enormous success with this guy in conjunction with Ninetales' Drought support. I've been running the Bulky Dancer set, as well as Flame Dance. The power boosts behind Flame Dance are awesome and, as Lee said a long time ago, let you do damage and possibly boost if you don't have the ability to get a BD in beforehand (Like if you KNOW the opposing Ferrothorn has Thunder Wave and need to kill it). That sun support is vital for setting up on/eliminating bulky Waters, sometimes doing so so quickly that the occasional Toxics can't even take you out fast enough before their team is gone (Morning Sun FTW!). In addition to Ninetales, Rapid Spin LO Starmie goes great with Volcarona/Urugamosu/Fire Moth of Doom. Instead of Hydro Pump, I've been running HP Fire on Starmie to KO annoying things like Magnezone (who resist my BoltBeam) and Ferrothorn (the "perfect counter" to Starmie).
One of my favorites by far. Add in its awesome cry and you're set.
One of my favorites by far. Add in its awesome cry and you're set.
I think that Flame Dance and Butterfly Dance on Volcarona is redundant, as they both boost Special Attack (but the latter also boosts Special Defense and Speed). IMO, if I were to get the chance to use Volcarona again, it's just BD + Fire Blast for me, with Bug Buzz and Psychic (or a Hidden Power) as backup.
Flame Dance is sort of like Moxie - it rewards you for keeping momentum on your side.
All of the most effective Volcorona sets are set uppers, so this point is somewhat moot. The distinction is between an offensive setup vs a defensive setup.
Offensive (252 SpA / 252 Spe) wants to hit as hard as possible as fast as possible, so I can see Fire Blast being the superior option here as you need 2 consecutive SpA boosts from Fire Dance to merely equal the damage of fire blast on every turn.
Defensive sets, however (252 HP / 252 Def) seek to stick around longer and can take advantage of the slower setup more effectively with Fire Dance, and will need the additional boosts more often.
Even with offensive BD, Flame Dance is still a great option. Generally, the steels you typically use Flame Dance on are KOed just like as if you were using Fire Blast. In addition, the ability to further boost your special attack is crucial in beating bulky waters and other walls.
But w8! Volcarona learns U-turn! I smell a choice scarf...
Volcarona@Choice Scarf
Timid 4 HP/252 SpAtk/252 Spd
Flame Body
~Fire Blast
~Bug Buzz
~Psychic
~U-Turn
*pumps fists*
Does Fire Blast get any relevant KOs that Flame Dance doesn't?
Assuming maximum SpA Timid with a Life Orb and a single BD boost, Fire Blast grabs a OHKO on:
-252/0 Impish Hippowdon
-4/0 Jolly Salamence (rocks)
-120/136 Adamant Conkeldurr
-6/0 Timid Volcarona
-248/0 Adamant Machamp
-252/156 Calm Porygon2 (Fire Blast 2HKOs, Fire Dance does not)
I'm pretty sure that's all that needs to be included for OU in general. Fire Dance does come close to OHKOing some of these, but even after a boost you are effectively using Fire Blast - it takes 2 boosts to equal the damage.
80+120+160 = 360
120+120+120 = 360
-252/0 Impish Hippowdon
-4/0 Jolly Salamence (rocks)
-120/136 Adamant Conkeldurr
-6/0 Timid Volcarona
-248/0 Adamant Machamp
-252/156 Calm Porygon2 (Fire Blast 2HKOs, Fire Dance does not)
I'm pretty sure that's all that needs to be included for OU in general. Fire Dance does come close to OHKOing some of these, but even after a boost you are effectively using Fire Blast - it takes 2 boosts to equal the damage.
80+120+160 = 360
120+120+120 = 360
...If you were at +0. If you have boosted at least once before attacking, +[n] Fire Blast will always be stronger than +[n+1] Flame Dance. And I don't know about you, but I like my Volcarona with at least two Butterfly Dances under her belt. I'd use Flame Dance only if I'm reeeeeeeally afraid of missing and want to bs hax my opponent with free Sp. Atk boosts (and Flame Body, heh).
Nubbins, I tried a scarf set (with overheat) a while ago, and IMO, it's really a waste of volcaronas potential. With rocks up, he can still sweep, but a scarf set just isn't as practical. It does work reasonably well, but there are better choices IMO.
But you aren't going to be using only that move, and if Fire Blast doesn't get any notable additional KOs, then I'd rather have a chance of making my coverage options better. Also, you can't guarantee you'll be getting two boosts every time, especially on something with so many weaknesses.
Anyone else think that SR doesn't severely hamper this guy's ability to fight? Honestly, I've been using him a lot in battles and he's doing fine. Yes, SR still poses a threat, but it doesn't feel as threatening as last gen. I don't know, it just seemed like it was a little exaggerated when everyone was like "OMG X4 SR WEAKNESS" earlier on...