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Multifaction/FFA Vote Control Mafia - Game Over - Congrats Wizards NOT Of Waverly Place
- Thread starter zorbees
- Start date
GAME OVER
Wizards NOT of Waverly Place have given me an unbeatable plan for endgame after the results of Day 7's vote.
[9:09 PM] DuckDuckPwn: ok game is over, we kill aura guardian, i triple heal, and twin negates asek
[9:10 PM] DuckDuckPwn: if twin dies, heal votes asek and they cannot ever win high votes
[9:10 PM] DuckDuckPwn: if heal dies, asek is negated and they have 0 voting power because exene has 0 votes
[9:10 PM] DuckDuckPwn: and we win high votes
[9:10 PM] DuckDuckPwn: by twin and i voting self
[9:10 PM] DuckDuckPwn: we then kill asek and win
[9:10 PM] DuckDuckPwn: feel free to call it if this is sufficient
(note: Exene did in fact have a vote of 1, see Role PM below, but it still wouldn't have been enough in any circumstance)
sheet with night actions: here
i kept track of votes on notepad after each cycle so i didn't save them but i double checked them a lot to make sure they were correct, i think between the sheet, the thread, and the PMs from secret voters, i'd be able to recreate vote counts for past days, but that's too much work for lazy me.
Role PMs:
Game design thoughts:
I tried to make the teams as balanced as possible. Each had a negative voter and a secret voter (counting former hope's role for Robert). I rated each role and tried to distribute them to each team where there wouldn't be any overpowered combos or things like that. The way the game played out, I may have underestimated Ditto's role, but I felt like the game would play out very differently than it did (see below), which had an impact on how effective the role could be. Additionally, I tried to make each team have strengths and weaknesses depending on which roles were alive. For example, the Wizards had a good start for the low vote by virtue of HeaLnDeal's role having a -2 vote, but without smogon account and Da Letter El (either them misusing their roles, being dead, or DLE being on a recharge cycle), would find it very hard to win the high vote towards the end of the game. The Roberts had a lot of tools for the high vote, but their options for low were pretty poor and due to Ditto's role, they would have trouble splitting high votes on multiple players to get themselves the low vote. Robots had Asek as an ace in the hole (a 3 vote that wasn't public could have been very hard to figure out) but most of their other roles were a bit weak if not used properly. (Note: Originally Exene's role had a -1 vote, but I nerfed it to positive. -1 would have been much better because it would amplify the negative vote to double it even further or further decrease a positive vote before halving it.) Crawdads had Aura Guardian's role as imo potentially one of the strongest in the game, and Blazade could potentially get to very high vote worth by lategame, but Aubisio and Serious Bananas roles weren't as strong.
Postgame thoughts:
this game played out nothing like i thought it would. I thought there would be a lot of moling and people lying about which factions they were and that was pretty much non-existent. This changed a lot of the powers of the roles because certain roles worked better when teams were more informed and coordinated. For example, Apricity's role was rated poorly because I didn't think it would be easy to get information on whose votes are worth what, and he'd have to know which users to swap that would still vote the way he wanted them to. As the game played out, pretty much everyone knew their teammates by the end of day 1 or day 2 at the latest for those skeptics. The thing i liked about the design of this game is that it would be obvious which teams were doing well and which weren't based on who was winning the votes and who was getting killed, making it easier for the teams at the bottom to team up against whoever is looking like they are doing well. Crawdads almost came out really strong after day 4 where they received the only kill, but in the end they didn't focus enough of their firepower on the Wizards. Barring smogon account, who let his role slip and was killed n1 because of it, the Wizards did very well keeping their roles secret, which I think ultimately led to their success. I don't think anyone knew about DLE's role, and members of the other team could not pinpoint down who was the silencer; they may have killed Twin earlier had they known it was him.
I hope you all enjoyed this game!
Wizards NOT of Waverly Place have given me an unbeatable plan for endgame after the results of Day 7's vote.
[9:09 PM] DuckDuckPwn: ok game is over, we kill aura guardian, i triple heal, and twin negates asek
[9:10 PM] DuckDuckPwn: if twin dies, heal votes asek and they cannot ever win high votes
[9:10 PM] DuckDuckPwn: if heal dies, asek is negated and they have 0 voting power because exene has 0 votes
[9:10 PM] DuckDuckPwn: and we win high votes
[9:10 PM] DuckDuckPwn: by twin and i voting self
[9:10 PM] DuckDuckPwn: we then kill asek and win
[9:10 PM] DuckDuckPwn: feel free to call it if this is sufficient
(note: Exene did in fact have a vote of 1, see Role PM below, but it still wouldn't have been enough in any circumstance)
sheet with night actions: here
i kept track of votes on notepad after each cycle so i didn't save them but i double checked them a lot to make sure they were correct, i think between the sheet, the thread, and the PMs from secret voters, i'd be able to recreate vote counts for past days, but that's too much work for lazy me.
Role PMs:
Dear Aura Guardian,
You are Angus T. Jones.
At night, you may target a user. No matter the results of the next day’s lynch, your target will count as having exactly 3 votes on him.
Your vote worth is -1.
You are on the Mississippi Crawdads. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
Dear Blazade,
You are The Mudman.
After every night, your vote worth increases by one.
Your vote worth is -1.
You are on the Mississippi Crawdads. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
Dear Aubisio,
You are Magic Mushrooms.
At night, you may target a user. The next day, it will be announced that no one is allowed to vote for that user.
You have a secret vote. During the day you may PM your vote to the host. Any votes you make in the thread will be overridden.
Your vote worth is 1.
You are on the Mississippi Crawdads. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
Dear Serious Bananas,
You are Gym Class Villains.
At night, you may target a user. The next day, your target’s vote will count negatively. They will not be told.
Your vote worth is 2.
You are on the Mississippi Crawdads. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
You are Angus T. Jones.
At night, you may target a user. No matter the results of the next day’s lynch, your target will count as having exactly 3 votes on him.
Your vote worth is -1.
You are on the Mississippi Crawdads. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
Dear Blazade,
You are The Mudman.
After every night, your vote worth increases by one.
Your vote worth is -1.
You are on the Mississippi Crawdads. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
Dear Aubisio,
You are Magic Mushrooms.
At night, you may target a user. The next day, it will be announced that no one is allowed to vote for that user.
You have a secret vote. During the day you may PM your vote to the host. Any votes you make in the thread will be overridden.
Your vote worth is 1.
You are on the Mississippi Crawdads. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
Dear Serious Bananas,
You are Gym Class Villains.
At night, you may target a user. The next day, your target’s vote will count negatively. They will not be told.
Your vote worth is 2.
You are on the Mississippi Crawdads. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
Dear smogon account,
You are James Gandolfini the White.
At night, you may target a user. The next day, your target’s vote will be secretly overridden to match your vote. If you or your target do not vote, this will have no effect.
Your vote worth is 1.
You are on the Wizards NOT of Waverly Place. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
Dear Da Letter El,
You are Markieff Morris.
At night, you may target a user. The next day, your target’s vote will count triple. They will be told this. You cannot use this action on consecutive nights.
Your vote worth is 1.
You are on the Wizards NOT of Waverly Place. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
Dear HeaLnDeaL,
You are Angry Tomatoes.
At night, you may target a faction. You will determine how many total votes were placed on that faction the previous day.
Your vote worth is -2.
You are on the Wizards NOT of Waverly Place. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
Dear thetwinmasters,
You are Arduous Task.
At night, you may target a user. Your target will not be able to vote the next day. They will be told this.
You have a secret vote. During the day, you may PM your vote to the host. Any votes you make in the thread will be overridden.
Your vote worth is 1.
You are on the Wizards NOT of Waverly Place. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
You are James Gandolfini the White.
At night, you may target a user. The next day, your target’s vote will be secretly overridden to match your vote. If you or your target do not vote, this will have no effect.
Your vote worth is 1.
You are on the Wizards NOT of Waverly Place. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
Dear Da Letter El,
You are Markieff Morris.
At night, you may target a user. The next day, your target’s vote will count triple. They will be told this. You cannot use this action on consecutive nights.
Your vote worth is 1.
You are on the Wizards NOT of Waverly Place. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
Dear HeaLnDeaL,
You are Angry Tomatoes.
At night, you may target a faction. You will determine how many total votes were placed on that faction the previous day.
Your vote worth is -2.
You are on the Wizards NOT of Waverly Place. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
Dear thetwinmasters,
You are Arduous Task.
At night, you may target a user. Your target will not be able to vote the next day. They will be told this.
You have a secret vote. During the day, you may PM your vote to the host. Any votes you make in the thread will be overridden.
Your vote worth is 1.
You are on the Wizards NOT of Waverly Place. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
Dear Asek,
You are Mazar.
You have a secret vote. During the day, you may PM your vote to the host. Any votes you make in the thread will be overridden.
Your vote worth is 3.
You are on the Robotic Army of Robots. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
Dear Exene,
You are That One Song That Mr. Krabs Liked.
Any user you vote for will have his vote total altered depending on whether the total result is positive or negative. If positive, half the result. If negative, double the result.
Your vote worth is 1.
You are on the Robotic Army of Robots. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
Dear apricity,
You are Creepy Uncle Jeff.
At night, you may target two users. The following day, their vote worths will be swapped. They will not be told of this.
Your vote worth is 1.
You are on the Robotic Army of Robots. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
Dear UncleSam,
You are Angkor Wat.
At night, you may target a user. The following day, your target’s vote will be worth exactly 0.5. Anyone who votes for the same person as your target will also have their vote be worth 0.5. They are not told this.
Your vote worth is -1.
You are on the Robotic Army of Robots. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
You are Mazar.
You have a secret vote. During the day, you may PM your vote to the host. Any votes you make in the thread will be overridden.
Your vote worth is 3.
You are on the Robotic Army of Robots. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
Dear Exene,
You are That One Song That Mr. Krabs Liked.
Any user you vote for will have his vote total altered depending on whether the total result is positive or negative. If positive, half the result. If negative, double the result.
Your vote worth is 1.
You are on the Robotic Army of Robots. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
Dear apricity,
You are Creepy Uncle Jeff.
At night, you may target two users. The following day, their vote worths will be swapped. They will not be told of this.
Your vote worth is 1.
You are on the Robotic Army of Robots. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
Dear UncleSam,
You are Angkor Wat.
At night, you may target a user. The following day, your target’s vote will be worth exactly 0.5. Anyone who votes for the same person as your target will also have their vote be worth 0.5. They are not told this.
Your vote worth is -1.
You are on the Robotic Army of Robots. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
Dear MoodyCloud,
You are Zbacnik.
At night, you may target a user. The following day, your target’s vote will be worth double.
Your vote worth is 1.
You are on Robert. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
Dear Ditto,
You are Zombie.
Any votes cast for the player you vote for will count for 1 more than their original worth.
Your vote worth is 1.
You are on Robert. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
Dear Jalmont,
You are Halibut.
At night, you may target a user. You will determine your target’s vote worth.
Your vote worth is 2.
You are on Robert. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
Dear Former Hope,
You are 4 Mana 7/7.
At night, you may target a user. Your target will be able to vote secretly the next day, overriding any votes he places in the thread.
Your vote worth is -1.
You are on Robert. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
You are Zbacnik.
At night, you may target a user. The following day, your target’s vote will be worth double.
Your vote worth is 1.
You are on Robert. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
Dear Ditto,
You are Zombie.
Any votes cast for the player you vote for will count for 1 more than their original worth.
Your vote worth is 1.
You are on Robert. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
Dear Jalmont,
You are Halibut.
At night, you may target a user. You will determine your target’s vote worth.
Your vote worth is 2.
You are on Robert. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
Dear Former Hope,
You are 4 Mana 7/7.
At night, you may target a user. Your target will be able to vote secretly the next day, overriding any votes he places in the thread.
Your vote worth is -1.
You are on Robert. You win if you eliminate all other factions.
_____
Game design thoughts:
I tried to make the teams as balanced as possible. Each had a negative voter and a secret voter (counting former hope's role for Robert). I rated each role and tried to distribute them to each team where there wouldn't be any overpowered combos or things like that. The way the game played out, I may have underestimated Ditto's role, but I felt like the game would play out very differently than it did (see below), which had an impact on how effective the role could be. Additionally, I tried to make each team have strengths and weaknesses depending on which roles were alive. For example, the Wizards had a good start for the low vote by virtue of HeaLnDeal's role having a -2 vote, but without smogon account and Da Letter El (either them misusing their roles, being dead, or DLE being on a recharge cycle), would find it very hard to win the high vote towards the end of the game. The Roberts had a lot of tools for the high vote, but their options for low were pretty poor and due to Ditto's role, they would have trouble splitting high votes on multiple players to get themselves the low vote. Robots had Asek as an ace in the hole (a 3 vote that wasn't public could have been very hard to figure out) but most of their other roles were a bit weak if not used properly. (Note: Originally Exene's role had a -1 vote, but I nerfed it to positive. -1 would have been much better because it would amplify the negative vote to double it even further or further decrease a positive vote before halving it.) Crawdads had Aura Guardian's role as imo potentially one of the strongest in the game, and Blazade could potentially get to very high vote worth by lategame, but Aubisio and Serious Bananas roles weren't as strong.
Postgame thoughts:
this game played out nothing like i thought it would. I thought there would be a lot of moling and people lying about which factions they were and that was pretty much non-existent. This changed a lot of the powers of the roles because certain roles worked better when teams were more informed and coordinated. For example, Apricity's role was rated poorly because I didn't think it would be easy to get information on whose votes are worth what, and he'd have to know which users to swap that would still vote the way he wanted them to. As the game played out, pretty much everyone knew their teammates by the end of day 1 or day 2 at the latest for those skeptics. The thing i liked about the design of this game is that it would be obvious which teams were doing well and which weren't based on who was winning the votes and who was getting killed, making it easier for the teams at the bottom to team up against whoever is looking like they are doing well. Crawdads almost came out really strong after day 4 where they received the only kill, but in the end they didn't focus enough of their firepower on the Wizards. Barring smogon account, who let his role slip and was killed n1 because of it, the Wizards did very well keeping their roles secret, which I think ultimately led to their success. I don't think anyone knew about DLE's role, and members of the other team could not pinpoint down who was the silencer; they may have killed Twin earlier had they known it was him.
I hope you all enjoyed this game!
It was fun, though yeah I expected more moling, too.
So in full disclosure, early game I pretended to be a Robot. I told apricity that I was either a Robot or a Wizard and there was a TON of hate going against UncleSam based on how he moled in past games so I was able to get away with it for a bit. I never flat out said I was a Robot, but apricity and Exene assumed that I was and I didn't correct them. DLE told me to go with it, but then later he went behind my back and told them I was a Wizard anyway. At first I was legitimately mad at DLE for this because it looked like he was selling me out. Really, the most of the game DLE and I were playing quite differently (until the end). Early on DLE wanted to work with UncleSam but my first big goal was to paint targets on Sam and try to get him killed... DLE kept saying some story about at the endgame everyone would want to kill Sam and he wouldn't be a threat, and idk maybe he was right but Sam was always a threat to me so a big part of my early "social" game was just tarnishing Sam as much as I possibly could (I mean, I never tried to be a dick to him, but the natural lack of trust between his team at first just created cracks that I was able to poke at).
Mid game DLE and I at least started to get along but I still kept up the facade that I hated his guts. I don't know who actually bought it at this point but oh well. Mid game Aubisio seemed to think I was a Robot as well, not sure if he ACTUALLY thought that or if he was just playing with me, but I led him on until DLE revealed I was a Wizard. After the reveal happened I then had to tell Aubisio that yeah I was a wizard but that DLE was a retard and I didn't want him to win and that my team was dead to me... Again, I don't know how much of this was actually believed, so maybe it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Really I think the most pivotal moment of the game was when DLE and I talked to Aubisio separately (I mean we avoided saying much of the same language/logic but conveyed same end result with different reasoning to Aubision to preserve the illusion that I wasn't getting along with DLE) and came up with the plan that Craws should kill Jalmont and Wizards should kill Asek. DLE and I basically knew it was suicide for Craws to kill Jalmont but we did our best to convince them it was the right thing to do. And of course we didn't kill Asek that night, we killed Blazade and backstabbed the Craws. And well for whatever reason it worked and Craws did kill Jalmont.
It was a weird game I guess. I think my teammates DLE and twin did more role strategy than I did but I kinda just sat back and turned what was legitimate real drama at the beginning of the game into performed drama by midgame.
Sorry UncleSam, I really just didn't want to work with you. But now I'm sorry if my uh "strategies" made the game unenjoyable to you.
Mid game DLE and I at least started to get along but I still kept up the facade that I hated his guts. I don't know who actually bought it at this point but oh well. Mid game Aubisio seemed to think I was a Robot as well, not sure if he ACTUALLY thought that or if he was just playing with me, but I led him on until DLE revealed I was a Wizard. After the reveal happened I then had to tell Aubisio that yeah I was a wizard but that DLE was a retard and I didn't want him to win and that my team was dead to me... Again, I don't know how much of this was actually believed, so maybe it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Really I think the most pivotal moment of the game was when DLE and I talked to Aubisio separately (I mean we avoided saying much of the same language/logic but conveyed same end result with different reasoning to Aubision to preserve the illusion that I wasn't getting along with DLE) and came up with the plan that Craws should kill Jalmont and Wizards should kill Asek. DLE and I basically knew it was suicide for Craws to kill Jalmont but we did our best to convince them it was the right thing to do. And of course we didn't kill Asek that night, we killed Blazade and backstabbed the Craws. And well for whatever reason it worked and Craws did kill Jalmont.
It was a weird game I guess. I think my teammates DLE and twin did more role strategy than I did but I kinda just sat back and turned what was legitimate real drama at the beginning of the game into performed drama by midgame.
Sorry UncleSam, I really just didn't want to work with you. But now I'm sorry if my uh "strategies" made the game unenjoyable to you.
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I mean you were trying to win the game Heal lmao it's not like you impacted my enjoyment at all
I do think that you would've lost the game horribly for your team if DLE hadn't also been on your team though lol, I don't think your play was very good for the long run success of your faction due to how little anything other than popularity had to do with this game but DLE brought it back and I was inclined to work with you guys over the others after the first day anyway
Crawdads stabbed Robert way too early by killing FH. I think that us killing Ditto might've been a mistake vs. killing a Crawdad but honestly I was never really playing for a win (I pretty much played 100% for a draw with DLE lmao) and I'm fairly certain that DLE would've honored the draw if I had been alive at the end so really I just blame Robert for killing me - which was always going to be how the game was decided anyway, by a (proxy) kingmaker.
I think that most of my apathy regarding this game boiled down to the fact that it was such a beauty contest. I'm a bit disappointed in the crawdads for killing Jalmont instead of a Wizard because it was pretty clear that that was a terrible decision, but I don't really know all of the thought (or lack thereof) that went into it so it's fine - they weren't going to win either way I'm almost certain.
Overall I think that Wizards played the best (DLE and Twin both did really well and Heal was super active and made a lot of plays, whether good or bad can be decided by someone other than myself lmao) so I don't mind this outcome. My main goal past day 1 was to avoid a crawdad / Robert schellacking and it turns out that the crawdads never planned on going for that anyway, which I'll say one more time was a big mistake and then leave it be.
Only person I'm a bit sorry for is Blazade, I was going to work with you a lot more but then I didn't get my faction to congeal on me nearly quickly enough to be in a strong negotiating position so I kind of had to bail on working on negotiations and had to focus entirely on getting the team together and organized, which meant that I basically then had to settle for going with the Wizards (the other team that was relatively unorganized early on). It was kind of funny the level of witch hunt thrown out there towards me early on lmao, I more laughed at it then anything because it was so ridiculous but some people you can pull the wool over it would seem
Apricity did well but died too yung (story of his life so far on this forum rip), Asek was kinda idle but seemed to get more involved once he came back from vacation. Exene is like super hyperactive I like his moxie but sometimes you gotta settle down and think through stuff a bit before popping off haha. Don't worry about it though - we've all been there. And you were really active and engaged so that's really important
FH did well on his team but I honestly saw almost nothing from the rest of his team so shrug
No clue what happened with the crawdads but they were like backstabbing people left right and center so I don't think they were ever going to win.
Anyways GGs all stay unsalted my friends
I do think that you would've lost the game horribly for your team if DLE hadn't also been on your team though lol, I don't think your play was very good for the long run success of your faction due to how little anything other than popularity had to do with this game but DLE brought it back and I was inclined to work with you guys over the others after the first day anyway
Crawdads stabbed Robert way too early by killing FH. I think that us killing Ditto might've been a mistake vs. killing a Crawdad but honestly I was never really playing for a win (I pretty much played 100% for a draw with DLE lmao) and I'm fairly certain that DLE would've honored the draw if I had been alive at the end so really I just blame Robert for killing me - which was always going to be how the game was decided anyway, by a (proxy) kingmaker.
I think that most of my apathy regarding this game boiled down to the fact that it was such a beauty contest. I'm a bit disappointed in the crawdads for killing Jalmont instead of a Wizard because it was pretty clear that that was a terrible decision, but I don't really know all of the thought (or lack thereof) that went into it so it's fine - they weren't going to win either way I'm almost certain.
Overall I think that Wizards played the best (DLE and Twin both did really well and Heal was super active and made a lot of plays, whether good or bad can be decided by someone other than myself lmao) so I don't mind this outcome. My main goal past day 1 was to avoid a crawdad / Robert schellacking and it turns out that the crawdads never planned on going for that anyway, which I'll say one more time was a big mistake and then leave it be.
Only person I'm a bit sorry for is Blazade, I was going to work with you a lot more but then I didn't get my faction to congeal on me nearly quickly enough to be in a strong negotiating position so I kind of had to bail on working on negotiations and had to focus entirely on getting the team together and organized, which meant that I basically then had to settle for going with the Wizards (the other team that was relatively unorganized early on). It was kind of funny the level of witch hunt thrown out there towards me early on lmao, I more laughed at it then anything because it was so ridiculous but some people you can pull the wool over it would seem
Apricity did well but died too yung (story of his life so far on this forum rip), Asek was kinda idle but seemed to get more involved once he came back from vacation. Exene is like super hyperactive I like his moxie but sometimes you gotta settle down and think through stuff a bit before popping off haha. Don't worry about it though - we've all been there. And you were really active and engaged so that's really important
FH did well on his team but I honestly saw almost nothing from the rest of his team so shrug
No clue what happened with the crawdads but they were like backstabbing people left right and center so I don't think they were ever going to win.
Anyways GGs all stay unsalted my friends
I will say that even though he was on my team, I have no idea wut the heck Twin even did and he and I never talked. DLE sort of bridged us. But when it came down to the decision to actually get Crawdad to vote out Jalmont, I was the one who made that plan and had DLE act upon it, or at least from my perspective that's how it went down. If you want to trash my early game drama then sure okay, but at the end of the day you just weren't anyone I ever wanted to work with even in the smallest way... But I wanted to work with Exene since his power aligned very well with my neg vote so I wanted you to die but for Exene to live so I could continue using him. And really, after you died and were revealed to be a Robot Exene and I still worked together and coordinated pretty well so I must have done something right. But uh sorry Exene, I used you for our synergy, pls forgive me in our next lives ;-;
apricity I really really wanted to work with you as well but rip u died.
apricity I really really wanted to work with you as well but rip u died.
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I'm not trashing your early game you just put your team in a poor negotiating position that DLE had to dig you out of from the Robot's perspective lol, no need to get salty. You made good plays and negotiated a lot and were very active no one is taking that away from you
I wasn't even active though, I only talked to a few people for maybe 5 minutes every day ._.
Also I don't see how you can say I put my team in a poor negotiating position when DLE was the one who told me to masquerade as a robot; his reasoning was that I would gain information about robot roles that would FORCE us to work together. I think to some degree it worked out, I was just miffed that he told me to do something without telling me what he actually wanted and when he outed me he didn't even tell me he was going to do it beforehand. It was just me: "yo DLE, robots think I'm robot, wut do I do?" DLE: "pretend to be robot" me: "okay" DLE: -secretly tells robots I'm not robot without telling me he was going to do it first.- I didn't put myself in that position, DLE instructed me to go with it and then outed me @_@
I'm not even saying what I did in the game was good, I'm not being salty, I'm disagreeing with both your praise and your criticisms and saying I was somewhere between both of them. I had a few people I talked to that mattered, I wasn't active outside of talking to those people minimally, I helped make an okay decision or two. Saying DLE dug us out of a hole seems weird on the basis that we weren't ever really in much of a hole to start with. I mean, I certainly tried to give the perception we were in a hole by complaining about DLE liberally outside of our group but I never felt like we were actually in a hole. Really, Wizards just had an advantage in the pieces we collected and all of the pieces fit together. We might have lost someone night 1, but that helped lower our threat levels are from then on we kinda just played from the bottom until we got to the top and nobody tried to dethrone us when they had the chance.
All in all I don't view this game as an overly strategic game or an overly social game and instead things kinda just happened and we took advantage of things when we could. I'm not even sure the game was that fun really. Like Zorbees, I was expecting more deception and stuff at the beginning but then things settled quickly and I seemed to be the only player who really was trying to deceive (more of because DLE told me too) which wasn't really fun. I mean the game is over but it's sort of just an "eh, oh, I was on the winning team and I might have done stuff but there was little to actually do soooooo..." As a game, it just sort of happened and the options to play different ways existed but it's not like those options were particularly varied or exciting.
Also I don't see how you can say I put my team in a poor negotiating position when DLE was the one who told me to masquerade as a robot; his reasoning was that I would gain information about robot roles that would FORCE us to work together. I think to some degree it worked out, I was just miffed that he told me to do something without telling me what he actually wanted and when he outed me he didn't even tell me he was going to do it beforehand. It was just me: "yo DLE, robots think I'm robot, wut do I do?" DLE: "pretend to be robot" me: "okay" DLE: -secretly tells robots I'm not robot without telling me he was going to do it first.- I didn't put myself in that position, DLE instructed me to go with it and then outed me @_@
I'm not even saying what I did in the game was good, I'm not being salty, I'm disagreeing with both your praise and your criticisms and saying I was somewhere between both of them. I had a few people I talked to that mattered, I wasn't active outside of talking to those people minimally, I helped make an okay decision or two. Saying DLE dug us out of a hole seems weird on the basis that we weren't ever really in much of a hole to start with. I mean, I certainly tried to give the perception we were in a hole by complaining about DLE liberally outside of our group but I never felt like we were actually in a hole. Really, Wizards just had an advantage in the pieces we collected and all of the pieces fit together. We might have lost someone night 1, but that helped lower our threat levels are from then on we kinda just played from the bottom until we got to the top and nobody tried to dethrone us when they had the chance.
All in all I don't view this game as an overly strategic game or an overly social game and instead things kinda just happened and we took advantage of things when we could. I'm not even sure the game was that fun really. Like Zorbees, I was expecting more deception and stuff at the beginning but then things settled quickly and I seemed to be the only player who really was trying to deceive (more of because DLE told me too) which wasn't really fun. I mean the game is over but it's sort of just an "eh, oh, I was on the winning team and I might have done stuff but there was little to actually do soooooo..." As a game, it just sort of happened and the options to play different ways existed but it's not like those options were particularly varied or exciting.
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Being put in a poor negotiating position is actually really good though, especially in the early game. It makes you less of a threat so that when the big teams start backstabbing/getting targeted, you're in a great position to take control of the game and win (eg the wizards winning after stabbing the crawdads)
MVP
MVP
MVP
MVP
MVP
But in all seriousness, gg all
We benefitted greatly from craw + Roberts not being a strong alliance after bananas moled and found out that I was pushing hard for a robot + wizard alliance and only taking the brunt of the n1 kills. What voodoo magic Twin worked to convince Craw to kill Robert there I do not know -- he said he made up some logs and stuff which sounded pretty fun.
Then from there, we were really the only faction that was actively engaging Roberts on any level (which I could have done a better job of, especially after Moody died), and we had the alliance going with Robots anyway, so it became pretty easy to just focus down on Craw whenever we had kills, while coming up with reasonable enough circumstances to work our way out of any massive grudge war with the Crawdads. HeaL getting us robot info put us in a great position to be able to win against them in a 1v1 from knowing their general capabilities, and Exene's role being strong but unable to 1v1 well (even with the misunderstanding on his vote count) put us in a strong position coming into the late game.
The goal early game was to try to get information while not stepping on toes. In alliance games, generally you want to be the least hated faction. I think we managed to do that pretty well. It helped that while our members got outed very quickly, the only role that really got publicized quickly was smogon account's role (smogon account pls come back you're a top tier user and made me laugh consistently).
Speaking of roles, I think our roles were on the stronger side of this game, although having very clear spikes in power is something no other faction had to that degree which was both interesting and frustrating lol. I think keeping exactly what we did and who did those things sort of close to the chest (I alluded to every role we had bar the vote negate to Moody and told Sam/Robots about 1 or 2 but not who had the roles) helped make it not as glaringly obvious that we needed to take deaths fast or we'd just snowball to a win.
Was pretty fun; I knew going into it that it was likely going to be a kingmaker-fest so I'm sort of glad that we managed to win without any blatant kingmaker, which I think was a testament to how everyone on the team played.
g.g.
We benefitted greatly from craw + Roberts not being a strong alliance after bananas moled and found out that I was pushing hard for a robot + wizard alliance and only taking the brunt of the n1 kills. What voodoo magic Twin worked to convince Craw to kill Robert there I do not know -- he said he made up some logs and stuff which sounded pretty fun.
Then from there, we were really the only faction that was actively engaging Roberts on any level (which I could have done a better job of, especially after Moody died), and we had the alliance going with Robots anyway, so it became pretty easy to just focus down on Craw whenever we had kills, while coming up with reasonable enough circumstances to work our way out of any massive grudge war with the Crawdads. HeaL getting us robot info put us in a great position to be able to win against them in a 1v1 from knowing their general capabilities, and Exene's role being strong but unable to 1v1 well (even with the misunderstanding on his vote count) put us in a strong position coming into the late game.
The goal early game was to try to get information while not stepping on toes. In alliance games, generally you want to be the least hated faction. I think we managed to do that pretty well. It helped that while our members got outed very quickly, the only role that really got publicized quickly was smogon account's role (smogon account pls come back you're a top tier user and made me laugh consistently).
Speaking of roles, I think our roles were on the stronger side of this game, although having very clear spikes in power is something no other faction had to that degree which was both interesting and frustrating lol. I think keeping exactly what we did and who did those things sort of close to the chest (I alluded to every role we had bar the vote negate to Moody and told Sam/Robots about 1 or 2 but not who had the roles) helped make it not as glaringly obvious that we needed to take deaths fast or we'd just snowball to a win.
Was pretty fun; I knew going into it that it was likely going to be a kingmaker-fest so I'm sort of glad that we managed to win without any blatant kingmaker, which I think was a testament to how everyone on the team played.
g.g.
Oh and as for the last two Craw -> Roberts kills, I don't know what motivated the first, but for the second, HeaL sort of talked about this too, but my argument was basically "we're almost guaranteed to both win the votes tomorrow by the looks of it, so we might as well work together today" while throwing massive shade towards how little jalmont wanted to work with them after Craw had already committed two Roberts kills. I think they also underestimated our role power and didn't expect the triple vote from asek to push a tie -- when the tie occurred, I assumed (incorrectly) that asek had tried to vote HeaL to prevent the low vote, while aura's/my votes cancelled out and made a 0/0 tie. Turns out that the exene 1 didn't count on aubisio, aubisio had 3 from the ag role, and then asek had 3 and aura's/my votes cancelled out for a 3/3 tie (note: twin was no voting, the stealth was just for style).
I didn't realize claiming my role would make me a threat lol
I spent so much time screwing around and spitting out blatant false information as possible that I wasn't thinking anyone legit took me seriously
I spent so much time screwing around and spitting out blatant false information as possible that I wasn't thinking anyone legit took me seriously
but yeah I still think faction games aren't as fun as scumhunting games
oh yeah it was quite apparent aura guardian and ditto were roberts based on something AG said in the discord coupled with the fact their votes meant they were coordinating
so I claimed roberts to ditto and figured out that some people had stupidly powerful powers
so I claimed roberts to ditto and figured out that some people had stupidly powerful powers