Weavile

Stealth Rock is the probably the only thing seriously hindering his durability, really. Without it, Weavile usually only gets OHKOed by super effective physical attacks and really strong special attacks. Not even Flygon's Outrage or Gengar's HP Fire will do it. Extremespeed Dragonite is going to be annoying, but not much else since it has four-moveslot syndrome and can't KO it at 75% even if it has max Attack. It could prove to be a problem if it has a Dragon Dance up, though.

Other than that, Weavile can find plenty of switch-in opportunities against the stuff he's supposed to check, since they're usually either defensive, slower and Pursuit weak, or just plain lacking in the power necessary to KO him.
 
So I made a weavile thread and it got closed because 'weavile didn't get anything worth talking about' this gen. Why is yours allowed to live?
 
KurashiDragon said:
I never really got into 4th gen uu so I'm staying out of that one.

@SJcrew

That's very true. This new offensive orriented metagame is also a weakness for Weavile given it's frailty, weakness to many priority moves, the new ability, Justice Heart, and a loss of a check in Extremespeed Dragonite. (That last one is just one I made up really) However many of the Theorymon top tier threats are weak to weavile and I can see it being put on a team to check these threats. If you can play a team around Weavile I suspect you'll go far in the metagame.

@PK Gaming

Yea I already knew that but it seems as though stealth rock has diminished in the metagame. Lots of new threats have surfaced. I suspect that the begining of the metagame will be very kind to weavile with a smaller poll of stealth rock teams.
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Wrong. We need Stealth rocks to keep many of threats in check. New guys like Urugamosu, Kyurem and oldies like Mence and whatever. Stealth Rock is invaluable to have in this gen.
 
Weavile is still faster than a lot of new pokemon with it's high base speed, in fact I think it outspeeds a huge majority of new pokemon other than that one ninja thingy...

I am a bit disappointed it didn't get trickery, but trickery is a bit of a double edged sword since it uses the opponent's attack to calculate the damage. Most things that Weavile wants to KO with dark type attacks have low attack to begin with (Shanderaa, Psychics, etc) and you are not going to want to use it on something with high attack like Ononokusu, because ice punch would just hit harder.
 
He didn't get much in the way of good new physica attacks either. :/

Also, I'm a bit dubious as to Wicked Theif's usefulness. Sure, it steals an item from the opponent and Fakeout is nice. But what exactly is Weavile going to do with that? You pretty much have to make your set assuming you'll get a choice item, lum, lefties or something else that may or may not be worth your time. Is it really a good idea to sacrifice a life orb in exchange for what is essentially a priority Knockoff?

I do like the idea of using fling though, but fling is rather weak. Using fling, wicked theif and fakeout you could systematically strip your opponent's team of items.

Another thing. Beat up was changed this gen. Would this move be useful now?
 
According to Serebii, Trickery has a base damage of 95. Most moves with fluctuating power don't have a base at all and are completely dependent upon its effect for the amount of destructive potential it can cause. If this plays out the way I suspect it to, Trickery could be the definitive Dark type move we've all been waiting for.

I'm sure this will become available to Weavile at some point. I mean, come on, he's a freaking vile weasel and his entire moveset is based on deception and underhanded tactics.
 
@Ryanide

It's probably because either you didn't put down enough information to make anybody interested or because there wasn't enough research to discuss Weavile. If niether applies then I'll have to agree with ungulateman and say people hate you.

Fling does seem like an interesting idea but what are you gonna do if you get a choiced item from the likes of Jirachi or something. It'll be troublesome that's for certain.

@To the stealth rock discussion

You must keep an open mind about these things. It's true that stealth rock is needed now more than ever but it's actually gotten a little weaker sense last gen. Mischevious heart, Rotom-A's type change, faster taunt users, and a bunch of other factors really.

@SJCrew

Agreed! :)
 
SJCrew said:
According to Serebii, Trickery has a base damage of 95. Most moves with fluctuating power don't have a base at all and are completely dependent upon its effect for the amount of destructive potential it can cause. If this plays out the way I suspect it to, Trickery could be the definitive Dark type move we've all been waiting for.

I'm sure this will become available to Weavile at some point. I mean, come on, he's a freaking vile weasel and his entire moveset is based on deception and underhanded tactics.
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Trickery also uses your OPPONENT's attack stat to calculate the damage. Sure it has a high base power, but that's not so great if you're using it to attack a pokemon with base 50 attack and no attack EV's.

@Kurashidragon = My thread had everything necessary for an analysis, just like this one. Full movesets and so on. However I didn't pay much focus to Wicked Theif, since in my mind it doesn't seem to be worth making a huge deal about.
When the mod closed it, I argued the point a bit, and he said that 'weavile did not get anything sufficiently new this generation worth discussing, so there's no reason to make a Weavile thread."
 
Then you can either leave your options a little more closed or put night slash / Pursuit with Trickery to abuse either your or your opponent's atk. (4 moveslot syndrome sux though)

Edit: Well then you must think about it this way. Apart from Wicked thief there is almost NOTHING that sets Weavile apart from last gen.
 
something worth thinking about though...with Hard stone and Fling, weavile has a base 100 dark type attack right off the bat, without the speed penalty that comes with iron ball.

With Wicked Thief, you could potentially fling a hard stone and deal a single powerful dark type attack, then use a physical move to steal yourself a new item next chance you get.
 
Trickery also uses your OPPONENT's attack stat to calculate the damage. Sure it has a high base power, but that's not so great if you're using it to attack a pokemon with base 50 attack and no attack EV's.
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It doesn't have to be "that great" since it's already stronger than Night Slash in base power and can only get stronger. Plus, Gen 5 is already filled to the brim with incredibly strong Pokemon, so there really aren't any forseeable drawbacks to this move. I'm still not completely ruling out the idea that it might be another Grass Knot/Low Kick move misrepresented as having a definitive base power, but with the facts as they are, I see this as something to get excited about.
 
TM47 - Ankle Sweep: No added effect. Physical / Bp 60 / Acc 100
Ok I don't care what you say. This clearly should've been low kick. The name just says so much. Why is this not low kick..... but with bp? Whatever the case this is just a worse Bp no effect version of Brick Break. Someone quote this if I'm wrong and it does have an effect.
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It does have an effect. It lowers the opponent's speed one stage. Not very useful, but there you go.
My thread had everything necessary for an analysis, just like this one. Full movesets and so on. However I didn't pay much focus to Wicked Theif, since in my mind it doesn't seem to be worth making a huge deal about.
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It may just be me, but shouldn't a Gen V analysis thread only be about the new changes and additions to a 'mon in the new generation, rather than being a post with just the old movesets? Sure, focusing only on the new things is definitely going to lead to gimmicky and arguably not-too-useful sets in some cases, but there's not that much of a point discussing the same old stuff from Gen IV. That's why Wicked Thief keeps getting mentioned.

Honestly, I have to admit that I find it gimmicky too, but I suppose it could be used together with Fling. Maybe.
Dream World Ability: Wicked Thief: Steals the opponent's item whenever the opponent touches it.

The way this is worded, I would assume that it only activates when the opponent attacks Weavile with a contact move, not when Weavile attacks. I've tried searching but haven't seen any clarification on what the ability does. Has anyone tested it yet?
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Weird - Bulbapedia and Serebii say the same thing, yet I've seen several other sources claim that the user steals the item whenever it uses a physical move.
 
SJCrew said:
It doesn't have to be "that great" since it's already stronger than Night Slash in base power and can only get stronger. Plus, Gen 5 is already filled to the brim with incredibly strong Pokemon, so there really aren't any forseeable drawbacks to this move. I'm still not completely ruling out the idea that it might be another Grass Knot/Low Kick move misrepresented as having a definitive base power, but with the facts as they are, I see this as something to get excited about.
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You're kind of missing the point though.

Base 95 power means nothing if you're firing it off on a Physical attack of 50. Most of the things that Weavile wants to KO with dark attacks have low physical attack power. Therefore, Assurance probably won't be as strong as a night slash in those instances.

If weavile is going to be attacking something with high attack, it'll most likely be using ice or fighting moves to check dragons and rocks.
 
I think I get what you're saying now, though Serebii's description is a bit misleading.

It uses the opponent’s strength. The higher the fighting opponent’s attack is, the greater the damage.
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I took this to mean that at 95 base damage, the damage increases by a fixed value based on your opponent's base Attack, similar to the way other variable damage moves work. Functioning off of your opponent's base attack is disheartening, since Weavile is usually significantly stronger than whatever he's up against, but I suppose we don't have to worry about that for now since he doesn't learn it.
 
whats the hype about wicked thief? If it only works when your not holding an item, anthe opponent has to touch you as well, it just seems to me like it sucks. I just wish weavile had gotten adaptability...
Also can't he learn that icicle drop move?
 
We're discussing that right now Cherub. One rather gimmicky way it can be used is if you use fling with Wicked Thief. Another way is if you use it as a lead without an item to steal your opponent's item by fake out.

No, Weavile can't learn Icicle Drop.
 
So according to the research thread, Fling fails when you use it with a gem. So much for the hope that a dark-type gem could be a high-damage dark attack.
 
I know fling does, but just having an ice gem and use ice shard, you can steal the opponent's item and boost the shard's damage by 50%, right?
 
Ice shard is not a contact move, so it probably won't work.

Ice punch, on the other hand, would. But that's only if the item stealing effect comes AFTER the gem. I like this idea though.
 
Could someone think of some actual uses for Wicked Thief?

All I can really think of is stealing leftovers from walls/stallers. Anyone know if Wicked Thief does anything if you already have a hold item? It'd be pretty cool if it gave all your physical contact attacks the knock off effect if you're already holding something, though I doubt it works like that.
 
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