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What teams thrive nowadays?

The most successful stalls in the current Standard metagame tend to be heavy stall.

I don't really agree with this. The most successful stall teams tend to be essentially tanking bulky offense with slightly more emphasis on entry hazards and defenses with a forretress or skarmory thrown in. Pokes like Hippowdon and Blissey are seeing usage drops in favor of stuff like swampert and cursetar that are more capable of dishing out hits. It tends to be a better strategy these days to use things with high attack stats and good defenses to tank hits and OHKO back rather than simple walls.

I think that the simplest way to explain the difference between tanking and heavy stall would be to look at the difference between obi stall and ipl stall. In obi stall, nearly everything self-recovers and simply walls threats until they decide to switch or until they are worn down by weak stab moves. IPL stall is almost always able to tank a hit or two and OHKO opposing threats (especially ones that can stat-boost like Mence and Infernape, but at the price of lacking reliable recovery on most of the team.

In obi (heavy) stall, there is also much more importance put on spreading out the entry hazards onto multiple pokes. IPL simply puts most of his hazards on forretress and puts up spikes and tspikes as they switch out of it. IPL also focuses more on general tanking rather than rely on skarm/bliss to take respective physical and special hits. His members are EV'd to have 60% physical bias rather than full physical or special bias.

Tanking stall is generally proving to be more effective than heavy stall in this metagame, and I think this is because heavy stall is finding it hard to put up hazards with rampant uturn abuse, meaning that tank stall is better because it can hit things hard as they switch in rather than relying hazards to do the damage. the rise in Rotom usage in platinum has also prompted stall to use harder counters to it, which may explain the dip in blissey usage in favor of curse tar.

Also, I agree completely with what iKitsune said about stall.
 
Heavy offense and stall are probably fairly reliable.

Why? Because one doesn't care about what the opponent's team is and stall lasts long enough to figure out what the opponent's team is.

Heavy offense comes out with guns blazing with all the momentum on its side. Because the other side must play defensively, heavy offense doesn't necessarily even need to check a lot of threats; there isn't a big need to do so as the other side is not going to find a good moment to get that DD or SD in without dying. Thanks to this, heavy offense doesn't have to worry about those last two mystery pokemon and can sacrifice what they want to keep their momentum up.

Meanwhile, stall will last long enough to see the entire opponent's team, and as the pokemon go down one by one through residual damage, they know which threats are big and which ones aren't and can play accordingly.

Balanced teams suffer from all this, particularly because they have difficulty against the two extremes. Stall is a bit tougher to break because they can't just throw everything they have against stall, while their lack of knowledge of a heavy offense team forces them to try and preserve pokemon they might need to deal with what is behind the curtains.
 
Eh guide to build good team.
Something to use SR (Whatever usually something Bulky).
Something to use Spikes (Smeargle, Skarm, Forrey).
ROTOMMMMMM! (Super Beast)
3 other pokes (doesn't matter if they are offensive or defensive as long as they work well together).

Lots of good examples posted lately. KG/August team, My and Pana's team, Phillip's team, Jabba's team, LD's team. Some offensive, some defensive but keep that main structure.

Follow above = Win!
 
Yeah, the metagame kind of took a surprising turn with the arrival of a sort of "pseudo stall" team that has been popularized lately amongst the higher players. These teams have a heavy emphasis on stall, such as entry hazards, use of the Forretress / Blissey / Rotom core, and the objective of "not losing." However, the difference in these teams is the usage of well placed offensive pokes as the team's trump card. For example, in JabbaTheGriffin's recent team, he uses a Scarf Jirachi to revenge kill threats that would otherwise be trouble (mainly Mence that will forever trouble stall teams). Or Phillip7086's teams, which uses the Forretress / Rest Talk Gyarados / Rotom core, but also utilizes a Tyranitar anti lead and a surprising Torment Heatran to take advantage of entry hazards and help with all types of teams. No doubt that these types of teams are having a strong impact on the ladder and in tournaments.

You can also see this in Ubers with the usual Forretress / Groudon / Blissey / Giratina core with a Choice Scarfer to revenge kill certain troublesome threats (mainly Darkrai, who will never fail to give stall teams problems). Gen Empoleon's recent stall teams utilizes Primeape to take on Darkrai!
 
With most teams looking exactly like this
Azelf/ Scizor/ Heatran/ Salamence/ Blissey/ Latias
Thats the most common pokes i run into and i bet every battle i atleast see one of them
But i usually like to run 3 Physical pokes and 3 Special pokes, but most of the time i run 2 physical pokes, 2 Special, and 1 physical wall and 1 special wall a team like that to me is very successfull
 
What i've found on shoddy, is that the higher up the ladder you are, the more prevalent stall teams become, however, better users of offensive and balanced teams who find themselves up the ladder will almost always prepare for stall, employing a dedicated strategy to combat it. Therefore, battles between balanced/bulky offensive teams, which many think stall teams walk all over with little effort, become much more contested. Despite this, players high up the ladder often get matched against players considerably further down the ladder who don't prepare for stall. In tournaments, the vast majority of the players are of a high quality and therefore most will prepare for stall, making offence more common.
 
adamant luke CC vs max/max swampert (94.55% - 111.63%)

yeah great check

That actually strengths my point, which was that Luke owns stall real badly.:naughty:

I think that the simplest way to explain the difference between tanking and heavy stall would be to look at the difference between obi stall and ipl stall. In obi stall, nearly everything self-recovers and simply walls threats until they decide to switch or until they are worn down by weak stab moves. IPL stall is almost always able to tank a hit or two and OHKO opposing threats (especially ones that can stat-boost like Mence and Infernape, but at the price of lacking reliable recovery on most of the team.

In obi (heavy) stall, there is also much more importance put on spreading out the entry hazards onto multiple pokes. IPL simply puts most of his hazards on forretress and puts up spikes and tspikes as they switch out of it. IPL also focuses more on general tanking rather than rely on skarm/bliss to take respective physical and special hits. His members are EV'd to have 60% physical bias rather than full physical or special bias.

Can someone link me to ipl's team? I'm pretty familiar with obi's.
 
Nah, that's team is outdated. Last time I saw him play, IPL was using Rest Talk Gyara over Zapdos and some kind of fucked up Spiritomb in place of Celebi. I think it is Curse / Pursuit / Rest / Sleep Talk. He used it to get to #1 on OU and it is a very good stall team that can handle just about anything you throw at it (except HP Electric MixApe amirite?)

It seems to me that bulky offense is the most dominant type today, as has been pointed out above. Just look at all the post World Cup RMTs that have been added to the archive. The prevalence of CB Scizor lets Skarmory and Forrey come in and get a layer of entry hazards in for free. Throw in something bulky like Swampert or Zapdos or both to phaze and a scarf Jirachi to handle anything that might get out of hand and you have a pretty solid team.
 
Yes, that may be the case Wolfy, but i don't believe he has published that team yet and the link I gave is the only published ipl stall team I know of
 
Scizor and 5 fillers.

Ok, no 5 fillers but really, scizor is so overused.

Whatever

-Metagross/Aero/Swampert/Azelf/Hippowdon.
-Scizor/Salamence/Lucario
-Scizor/Salamence/Lucario/Something with rapid spin
-Suicune/Swampert/Celebi/Something with rapid spin
-Celebi/Blissey/Rotom
-Filler or the only original pokemon in the team.

I think that's it.
 
I have been seeing less and less Stall teams recently. I am seeing more balanced offense as opposed to Bulky Offense. I don't think I have seen one hyper offensive team yet. Probably the newest concept coming up is Semi-stall, which looks like a mix between Bulky Offense and Stall.
 
I don't think I have seen one hyper offensive team yet.

Then you have clearly never faced a Rain Dance team. I am currently running one in standard right now, though I don't ladder much at the moment. But from what I have seen, bulky offense seems to be the most popular type of team right now.
 
Then you have clearly never faced a Rain Dance team. I am currently running one in standard right now, though I don't ladder much at the moment. But from what I have seen, bulky offense seems to be the most popular type of team right now.

I have faced only two Rain Dance teams, they are really hard to beat. Fortunately they all seem to use the same Pokemon(Kingdra).
 
Rain Dance teams aren't too common anymore, I use them a lot and they can work well, but have lost usage as people started to prepare for them more, you've just now got to be a bit more creative with them. I see quite a lot of other types of heavy offense teams though, but bulky offense and stall are the most common types of teams I see.
 
Rain Dance teams aren't too common anymore, I use them a lot and they can work well, but have lost usage as people started to prepare for them more, you've just now got to be a bit more creative with them. I see quite a lot of other types of heavy offense teams though, but bulky offense and stall are the most common types of teams I see.

Yeah, that's why I'm currently revamping my team. But even if the opponent is prepared, they can still be deadly.
 
That (and why Rain Dance is suffering) is because Rain is a playstyle even more tracked than Pure Stall. Even if a Pure Stall player has team disadvantage, he can use some clever double switching to get up his layers and win. He just can't get away without successfully predicting as he usually does against unskilled opponents and poorly designed offensive teams.

But things like double switching wastes the Rain, meaning that you have no choice but to keep a pokemon in, so your opponent has a great deal of knowledge of what you will do from the onset. And often with Gyarados and Salamence everywhere, it becomes harder to sweep on the physical side (Intimidate helps) and Blissey is there on the special side.

Since Rain pokemon also have very similar typing (and most are grounded), pivoting becomes difficult as well. Now let's take the fairly common "Metagross and Kabutops arrive on the field at the same time" incident (common because Rain teams often sac their pokemon rather than switching around due to the limitations of Rain). A CB Metagross can live a Waterfall from a non-SD'd Qwilfish or Kabutops and hit back with a painful Earthquake. Who will take your Earthquake and maintain offensive pressure on the opponent? Or will you sac Kabutops to the foe? More to the point, it take a good prediction to use Swords Dance on a pokemon as frail as Kabutops.

What if a support Celebi comes onto the field? Paralysis makes you lose the advantage of the Rain, and Recover can mean the end of the game. Where do you use Signal Beam/X-Scissor/Poison Jab and fit in moves to destroy offensive threats?

Rain teams must be exceptionally well-designed to work in the metagame. You need to know where to use Aqua Jet for Scizor and where to use Stone Edge/Rock Slide for Gyarados.
 
Your completely right mtr12, thats why I have to spend hours and hours on them thinking of ways to get around that. As you probably saw in my last RD team(in my sig), I had to use a lot of different types of sets and ideas completely against the norm to do well.
 
I use RD a lot too, and I combat it by simply firing off high-powered shots in every direction, and by using an all-special Kingdra that gets a surprise kill on their physical wall :). Against stall, Blissey is nothing but pure set-up fodder for a Kabutops with Aqua Jet that doesn't mind paralysis. Well-played rain does well in the metagame, as I got one account with nothing but rain teams to 1517, and it is currently still rising. Kingdra can KO the entire metagame bar bulky waters and Blissey with a switch-in attack + another move. Also, rain teams employ SR, which severely hurts bulky offensive teams that try to switch-stall.
 
I loved facing Rain teams when I was using DD Kingdra on my team. Just switch it in at the right time (usually closer to the end of the match when their Zong or other bulky poke is gone) and DD. Now you're faster than absolutely anything and none of the frail sweepers can take your Outrages. It also doesn't hurt that you 4x resist their Water STABs and if you have Lum Berry it's basically GG because no Rain team can survive two rounds of +1/2 Outrage.
 
Rain is starting to evolve now, and become more Anti-DD Kingdra. I made some changes to my team recently, and since have never even been threatened by one. Inexperienced users of rain do have a tendency to be very DD Kingdra weak, as well as having their whole team walled by a single bulky water. A smart rain player does not have these issues as much, however.
 
Pikachu25 has pretty much hit it on the head, you've just got to edit your team, with my last rd team the main reason I lost was hax or sometimes when I played someone before they could predict around me since my surprises were no longer surprises, I've decided against laddering with rd anymore, I should have hit the top50 but didn't as for some reason I decided to ladder with my 0.042 volatility account.
 
i have found my old team (old that it had shaymin-s in it -_-) and, as the stage was stall threw in the trust mixape to replace that shaymin... been cutting a few teams to ribbons with that, although i am working up to mid rankings now so not really an accurate asessment.
cant say i have seen heavy stall, seen the basic stall (things like rotom forms, swampert etc) havn't seen the foretress skarmory and blisseys yet though.
Havn't seen any rain yet seeing more of the offencive teams now though (seen a few scizors, lucarios, gyarados etc).
i would describe my team as approaching hyper offencive
only trying rain in UU.. hard work that
 
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