This thread wasn't made for you to say that. This is a discussion thread, and somewhat of a reference.
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Whats a Hack and What Isn't
- Thread starter Yoko Rains
- Start date
@Obi: So, your point of view is that both cloning with AR, quick hatching and egg checking is hacking, fine. But I should assume you don't trade often here on Smogon, because people clone their pogeys (or ask cloners to do so) with AR, and you think cloned pogeys are hacked, right?
Also, I'd like to point that your Pizza example was really misplaced. A pizza is different from a sandwich, but a Quick Hatched/Egg Checked pokemon is still the same as a Normal Hatched one. Your argument fits the following dialogue:
A: Would you like to make a breeding project for me?
B: Sure, which pokemon do you want?
A: An Adamant DD Bagon
B: Nop, the best I can do is a DD Magikarp
A: But I want the Bagon
B: I will only do the Magikarp
A: Why?
B: Because Bagons take too long to hatch, while Magikarp hatch faster. They're easier.
On the situation above, there's a DIFFERENCE between the easier and hardest pokemon. A Salamence is not a Gyarados. But if I hatch the exact same Pokemon using the Egg Checker, and another without using it, you just can't say on which one I used the Pokesav.
But then you say: You're confused about being legit and being undetectable. Read carefully because that's the point.
It's just a matter of concept. You consider hacked any kind of stuff which somehow was directly or indirectly by any cheat device. A strict vision, I'd say. For me, Hacked pogeys are the ones that were directly modified by a cheating device. On the quick hatch, I just make eggs hatch faster. On the Egg Check, I check the good IVed Eggs, and delete the bad ones. I didn't changed any IV, OT or any kind of pokemon data. You can say I hacked the method, but the pokemon is legit.
It's just like Arceus, Shaymin and non-movie Darkrai. You hacked the event but the IVs are completely legit. So they're certainly not hacked at all. The same with cloning. You created a completely new pokemon based on a legit data. Did I changed any data? No, so it's still legit.
So, any of the pokemon on the above situations (cloned by AR, hacked events, quick hatched and egg checked) are legit. Maybe the methods used to get them are not, but the pokemon do. If you start this pursue for the pure and extreme legitimacy, pokemon won't be fun at all. I just want legit pokemon. Is the pokemon's legit? I don't care how did you get it.
Also, I'd like to point that your Pizza example was really misplaced. A pizza is different from a sandwich, but a Quick Hatched/Egg Checked pokemon is still the same as a Normal Hatched one. Your argument fits the following dialogue:
A: Would you like to make a breeding project for me?
B: Sure, which pokemon do you want?
A: An Adamant DD Bagon
B: Nop, the best I can do is a DD Magikarp
A: But I want the Bagon
B: I will only do the Magikarp
A: Why?
B: Because Bagons take too long to hatch, while Magikarp hatch faster. They're easier.
On the situation above, there's a DIFFERENCE between the easier and hardest pokemon. A Salamence is not a Gyarados. But if I hatch the exact same Pokemon using the Egg Checker, and another without using it, you just can't say on which one I used the Pokesav.
But then you say: You're confused about being legit and being undetectable. Read carefully because that's the point.
It's just a matter of concept. You consider hacked any kind of stuff which somehow was directly or indirectly by any cheat device. A strict vision, I'd say. For me, Hacked pogeys are the ones that were directly modified by a cheating device. On the quick hatch, I just make eggs hatch faster. On the Egg Check, I check the good IVed Eggs, and delete the bad ones. I didn't changed any IV, OT or any kind of pokemon data. You can say I hacked the method, but the pokemon is legit.
It's just like Arceus, Shaymin and non-movie Darkrai. You hacked the event but the IVs are completely legit. So they're certainly not hacked at all. The same with cloning. You created a completely new pokemon based on a legit data. Did I changed any data? No, so it's still legit.
So, any of the pokemon on the above situations (cloned by AR, hacked events, quick hatched and egg checked) are legit. Maybe the methods used to get them are not, but the pokemon do. If you start this pursue for the pure and extreme legitimacy, pokemon won't be fun at all. I just want legit pokemon. Is the pokemon's legit? I don't care how did you get it.
Why is there another subject on thi? >_> I don't feel guilty saying that when it's so close to the top.
Anyway, Gab's right that logically, you either see cloning AND breeding tricks as good, or bad. All fine, or all not fine. That's just logic sans hypocrisy. Obi's anti both, so yeah.
The problem is that is seems like there are lots of folks who think AR cloning is ok while fast hatch/clone is not. That's hypocrisy there. >_>
Anyway, Gab's right that logically, you either see cloning AND breeding tricks as good, or bad. All fine, or all not fine. That's just logic sans hypocrisy. Obi's anti both, so yeah.
The problem is that is seems like there are lots of folks who think AR cloning is ok while fast hatch/clone is not. That's hypocrisy there. >_>
^ Agreeing with you gabriel, but viper's Pokemon showed up as legit even though they were hacked, so be weary on that point.
Obi, don't feel like we're ganging up on you dude! We're just expressing our opinions, don't feel mad or anything! =D
Obi, don't feel like we're ganging up on you dude! We're just expressing our opinions, don't feel mad or anything! =D
*Off*
If they were not detected, how did Smogon find out they were? I'd like to know >_> (I was absence from Smogon for about a month when that happened, starting my projects and studying for my exams)
PM me
*On*
I'm sure Obi knows we're just expressing opinions, and it's nothing personal. That's the point of this thread. ;D
@Fiyaaah: It depends. If that'll screw Scyther's data making him hacked, unfortunately you should not do that, as it may be passed to the baby (not sure on that part). If it doesn't, I see no problem, specially as you're using him as a parent.
Read the PM, I explained to you =D
He openly admitted his Pokemon were hacked. Some were checked, and were found hacked, while the really good ones, like the Larvitar, were found to be fine.
He openly admitted his Pokemon were hacked. Some were checked, and were found hacked, while the really good ones, like the Larvitar, were found to be fine.
You can't get Shaymin and Darkrai in the game without an AR. Unless you have a Japanese version, which almost nobody here has.
And if cloned by AR Pokemon are hacked to you, then you can't trade with anyone on the Wi-Fi forums lol.
And if cloned by AR Pokemon are hacked to you, then you can't trade with anyone on the Wi-Fi forums lol.
I don't think Obi even plays on DS. And he even said he wouldn't care a lot if he played.
^ Well, if he ever plays, he won't be able to get any trades if he goes under the concept of "No AR cloning" because everyone clones with AR and you also know it =D
@Obi: Again, just our concepts are different and we've already exposed them, so the discussion is pointless. You have a strict vision, mine's a little more open minded.
Anyway, it was a great discussion, it'll certainly clear doubts, and let people make their opinion as they can see two different points of view, even tough we agree in many aspects.
Anyway, it was a great discussion, it'll certainly clear doubts, and let people make their opinion as they can see two different points of view, even tough we agree in many aspects.
I have a jap version of both but am too tired to play it(besides what the fuck would be my name when I don't know how to write in Japanese I only know a few words/ phrases....). Anyways Yoko damn 40 posts a day that's overkill >_<. Oh well enjoy pc++
Truthfully I would say that first of all no matter what you do quick-hatching and insta-egg are both considered hacks(untraceable hacks no doubt). Cloning is fine but personally when I get wifi again I'd clone a couple of copies of my pokes through the GTS and then have those copies cloned using the AR(just to be safe, but it doesn't really matter). Oh and I agree with Obi just because it's undetectable doesn't make it legit.
As I said, or you consider Quick Hatch/Check Egg and cloning hacks, or you consider both legit, they follow the same principles. If you stop to think on why you clone with AR, and why you use quick hatch/egg check, you'll find the same reasons and the same kind of pokemon.
I'd say that clones are even worse, because they were directly touched (not modified) by the AR, while on the two methods above, only the eggs were.
Of course, if you still think that way, it's fine. But if you stop to think you'll see you're being contraditory defending cloning and being against the hatching tricks.
You see cloning doesn't give anyone here the advantage and you're basically creating a replica of a code you already have. Something you wasted many of hours on. So cloning isn't bad. Where as the "booster" codes give you an advantage over those who do not use it and it would significantly reduce the time spent breeding.
You're not having any advantage?
Tell me, how many people here doesn't have an AR and ask for cloners to clone their IV bred pokemon? The cloners get good IV bred pokemon for free, only because they can clone. And it's way easier than GTS.
Me, i.e., once tried over 30 times to clone on GTS, and I had no sucess at all, so I just gave up. Cloning on GTS takes skill, and no matter how skilled you are, it'll take time. If you have an AR, you can make 5 pogeys faster than you'd make 1 on GTS, plus you can clone other people pokemon, getting them for free. Isn't that an advantage? A HUGE advantage?
Yes, a HUGE advantage, but since everyone has that advantage, I wouldn't consider it as an advantage (lol) since nobody here GTS clones.
In my personal opinion on this subject, Many people are not able to get to events in order to get events. So I think Hacking the items on this part is fair (However I believe it should be relied on event pokemon that you cannot get by other means), For example I don't believe it's fair to hack Lugia and Ho-oh as there are other means of getting them, but in the case of Celebi and Deoxys I believe it is fair.
I think hacking in any way to affect breeding is not cool, whether it giving that Gible Outrage, Eevee wish, aqua jet azumarill, or step reducing takes is just plain lazy, and cheating in my eyes, If you want that amazing 31,31,31,31,31,0 with curse If it's worth the effort do it the all-natural way.
To hack to clone pokemon I think is all good, to hack items, now that I'm not to keen on. I think if you hack a pokemon like Spiritomb with Wonderguard, Refresh and Slackoff or a Jihad team of exploding Bidoofs, Mudkips and Ludicolo's should be used just for fun and to leave it at that
Ghandi
I think hacking in any way to affect breeding is not cool, whether it giving that Gible Outrage, Eevee wish, aqua jet azumarill, or step reducing takes is just plain lazy, and cheating in my eyes, If you want that amazing 31,31,31,31,31,0 with curse If it's worth the effort do it the all-natural way.
To hack to clone pokemon I think is all good, to hack items, now that I'm not to keen on. I think if you hack a pokemon like Spiritomb with Wonderguard, Refresh and Slackoff or a Jihad team of exploding Bidoofs, Mudkips and Ludicolo's should be used just for fun and to leave it at that
Ghandi
But to get the easier/faster cloning you need a Pokesav/AR. To get a easier/faster hatching, you need a Pokesav/AR. Again, Cloning and the breeding tricks follow the same principles and doesn't harm the pokemon in any aspect. Or you love both, or you hate both.
Could you add a third option to your list. One that says accept AR cloning but no other codes. That's where most normal non-AR owners would belong(sorry if I generalize)
most people accept hacked items since they are no different from the real thing. Money well you can't trade so wouldn't matter.
Items are okay. I mean, how many BP is it for a darn Choice Band?
Last time i checked it was 48 bp for a choice item. A few minutes of time vs. about an hour of in-game battle tower... imo it doesn't really matter whether you clone items or not. I am in favor of berry cloning particularly because since i don't have berries like the salac and petaya. Especially when they're a chore to raise.
