What's going on in the U.S.?

Marisa Kirisame

Marisa Kirisame

I am really uneducated when it comes to what's going on outside so I'm hoping some of you will shed some light on if George W. Bush is doing a good job or bad job as the president of the U.S.

What are your opinions of him?

What do you think about his actions and if those actions were good or bad?

What were some of his achievements?

What were some of his errors?

Should we pull out of the Middle East and why?

Thanks for shedding some light on this, I am really confused about what is going on right now.

Edit: Ahh fuck, I put this in Firebot.

Re-Edit: Thanks for moving Carl.
 
Here I'll move it for you since I don't know anything either and a nice summary post would be cool.
 
Thanks for deleting my post carl.

I was editting it after the move.

:(

Bush has pretty much fucked us over. I'm not huge on politics, but I know some things. He basically violated UN treaties and violated our own constitution when he declared war on Iraq. So he's going against what we stand for already.

He's also putting us in huge debt to the chinese, who, let me remind you, have an incredible military program, and rival the US in power. Considering we're in trillions of dollars of debt to them, they have us by the balls in some ways.

So yeah, he fucked us up in more ways than one. Not to mention he ruined any positive image we might have had.
 
Couldn't he be removed from office for violating UN treaties and the Constitution?

From what I have been hearing George W. Bush is trying to establish a new government for Iraq when he should get our debts paid and take care of our own government.

Or is it to prevent another Saddam Hussein from taking over again?
 
Earthquake said:
Couldn't he be removed from office for violating UN treaties and the Constitution?

From what I have been hearing George W. Bush is trying to establish a new government for Iraq when he should get our debts paid and take care of our own government.

Or is it to prevent another Saddam Hussein from taking over again?
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Saddam was a grudge. Saddam was a terrible man, but he had been a very effective leader. The country was running somewhat efficiently, and I believe there was no grounds to remove saddam since his father invaded Iraq in Desert Storm...

...Correct me if I'm wrong, though. I'm not that big on politics.
 
Well Bush claims it is to set up a democracy, however in this process we not only totally fucked up Iraq, but triggered a civil war there
 
Yes, the shi'ites and the sunnis. However they (the government) were already handling that before we got in there. Then we overthrew there government so they have nobody handling it anymore. Now the Shiites and Sunnis are fighting for power on who should take over.
 
How are we trying to solve this problem?

- Are we trying to negociate with them?

- Are we just doing all the work killing them?

- Do we have any other countries helping us?
 
Saddam was a grudge. Saddam was a terrible man, but he had been a very effective leader. The country was running somewhat efficiently, and I believe there was no grounds to remove saddam since his father invaded Iraq in Desert Storm...
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Except for the fact that he was gassing and oppressing people. This guy was fucking hung for a reason.
 
Yah. Saddam torured his people. Everyone seems to ignore that fact. Yes, Saddam kept the country closely watched and kept the terrorists out. Even though we destroyed that security, there is no longer an oppressive force that governs the people and rapes them for fun.

And Congress is who declares war, not the President. It is also Congress who decides to sustain war, not the president. It was Bush's idea, and Congress liked it enough to keep it going. People who blame Bush for everything regarding the war don't know how the US government works.

Negotiate? Negotiate with whom? It's all the terrorist organizations we're fighting with at this point. For them, 'negotiate' is a synonym to 'victory'. They do not negotiate. They are driven by a religious fanaticism which tells them to kill all Jews, Christians, and Atheists, along with everyone else. The Koran does, at one point, when talking about Judgement day, say that "The rocks will scream 'Come, there is a Jew behind me. Come and Kill him." and that all Muslims will be given an infidel to kill so they can get into heaven. That is what we're up against, and the last thing they want to do is leave the region peaceful when it has influence of Western Society.
 
bush has realy screwed us we should have gotten out of there a LONG time ago but he won't pull out because he wants their oil its not about building a democracy he just wants their damn oil and i dont think it is worth the loss of life of course,if i am mistaken on something please correct me
 
The Koran does, at one point, when talking about Judgement day, say that "The rocks will scream 'Come, there is a Jew behind me. Come and Kill him." and that all Muslims will be given an infidel to kill so they can get into heaven.

You had better have a fucking source.


Bush has made our foreign policy the joke of the world. All the developing countries fear us and all the developed countries think we're imperialistic. We've attempted to tromp around the Middle East in support of "democracy", when in fact all we've done is vindicate the terrorists and make even normal Arabs hate us for getting involved in their affairs. Meanwhile, Al Qaeda has regrouped after Afghanistan and is stronger than ever due to our constant bungling.

I guess the problem is that Osama is in Pakistan - a country we don't dare invade, seeing as they have nuclear weapons. That meant that Bush had to direct his unilateralist doctrine elsewhere, which was on a high after the major success in Afghanistan.


I promise you that if we attack Iran - we are headed for a second Cold War, but this time it will just be the US vs the world, because everyone will either be afraid of us, or pissed off at us.
 
gsumbreon said:
And Congress is who declares war, not the President. It is also Congress who decides to sustain war, not the president. It was Bush's idea, and Congress liked it enough to keep it going. People who blame Bush for everything regarding the war don't know how the US government works.
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You say to someone who took american government last year. The congress is controlled by the people. They vote in patterns that are determined by the voters in their state. So basically, what the people in the US want, is what they get. Why? Because they want to get re-elected. So when Bush uses his power to fool the people into thinking we're in a national state of emergency (terror levels, what the fuck seriously?) and he convinces the people we need to invade Iraq, they just nod and say "duuur, okay."

Now this would imply the blame lies in the people. Well, not true. Most people aren't incredibly avid about world politics. They have to run off of the information the president they voted for provides them with. So if that president tells them that they are looking for weapons of mass destruction, they will say "oh, that seems reasonable" without doing any research or looking deeper, like some people do.

So Bush, being a sneaky motherfucker, weaseled his way into Iraq following the coat-tails of 911 and the massive surge of patriotism, and now we're stuck in there.
 
Thunderpup said:
You say to someone who took american government last year. The congress is controlled by the people. They vote in patterns that are determined by the voters in their state. So basically, what the people in the US want, is what they get. Why? Because they want to get re-elected. So when Bush uses his power to fool the people into thinking we're in a national state of emergency (terror levels, what the fuck seriously?) and he convinces the people we need to invade Iraq, they just nod and say "duuur, okay."

Now this would imply the blame lies in the people. Well, not true. Most people aren't incredibly avid about world politics. They have to run off of the information the president they voted for provides them with. So if that president tells them that they are looking for weapons of mass destruction, they will say "oh, that seems reasonable" without doing any research or looking deeper, like some people do.

So Bush, being a sneaky motherfucker, weaseled his way into Iraq following the coat-tails of 911 and the massive surge of patriotism, and now we're stuck in there.
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yeah and the main reason were there is for some damn oil
 
It had nothing to do with oil. Here is what it had to do with -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism_(United_States)#Overview

Believing that America should "export democracy," that is, spread its ideals of government, economics, and culture abroad, they grew to reject U.S. reliance on international organizations and treaties to accomplish these objectives. Compared to other U.S. conservatives, neoconservatives may be characterized by an idealist stance on foreign policy, a lesser social conservatism, and a much weaker dedication to a policy of minimal government, and, in the past, a greater acceptance of the welfare state, though none of these qualities are necessarily requisite.

Aggressive support for democracies and nation building is additionally justified by a belief that, over the long term, it will reduce the extremism that is a breeding ground for Islamic terrorism. Neoconservatives, along with many other political theorists, have argued that democratic regimes are less likely to instigate a war than a country with an authoritarian form of government. Further, they argue that the lack of freedoms, lack of economic opportunities, and the lack of secular general education in authoritarian regimes promotes radicalism and extremism. Consequently, neoconservatives advocate the spread of democracy to regions of the world where it currently does not prevail, most notably the Arab nations of the Middle East, communist China, North Korea and Iran.
 
'I didn't read that article but I am assuming something about it anyway'

I mostly just wanted to post to express my amusement that there is an Obama google ad on the top of this page though, haha. That said this isn't firebot guys, don't post if you don't know what you are talking about. "my dad said" and "i completed an 11th grade government course" is probably not going to cut it!


Anyway...

I enjoyed the article CK. After hearing complaints about him for so many years now I'd seen most of it before but it is a nice amalgamation of some of the various ridiculous things he's done so far.

I also enjoy how different his interpretation of his job seems to be from the interpretation that most of the rest of this country and the constitution have of his job. I suppose at least there is a fun irony in us attacking other countries to try to get them to form a democracy while we can't even operate our own government correctly...
 
We've attempted to tromp around the Middle East in support of "democracy", when in fact all we've done is vindicate the terrorists and make even normal Arabs hate us for getting involved in their affairs. Meanwhile, Al Qaeda has regrouped after Afghanistan and is stronger than ever due to our constant bungling.
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hi
And that was only one page back in this very forum. What you say is quite contradictory to fact. Just a few quotes:
I was greeted by friendly Iraqis in the streets of Baghdad every day, but the atmosphere in Ramadi was different. I am not exaggerating in the least when I describe their attitude toward Americans as euphoric.

Grown Iraqi men hugged American Soldiers and Marines.
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Young men wanted me to take their pictures with their arms around American Soldiers and Marines. The Americans seemed slightly bored with the idea, but the Iraqis were enthusiastic.
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Ramadi has changed so drastically from the terrorist-infested pit that it was as recently as April 2007 that I could hardly believe what I saw was real. The sheer joy on the faces of these Iraqis was unmistakable. They weren’t sullen in the least, and it was pretty obvious that they were not just pretending to be friendly or going through the hospitality motions.
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And this was the place that was called al Qaeda's capital, and one of the worst cities in the world for terrorism.
 
ZinkOxide said:
hi
And that was only one page back in this very forum. What you say is quite contradictory to fact. Just a few quotes:

And this was the place that was called al Qaeda's capital, and one of the worst cities in the world for terrorism.
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A nice find, but don't say it's contradictory to fact. It's a matter of credibility of sources, omitting information, exaggerating, and sometimes lying that can turn a falsehood into reality. I'm not saying your source is discreditable at all.

I'm just saying that both sides have very creditable facts that disprove each other most of the time.

Just be careful when you toss around some source and call it truth.
 
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