Lo jolly ray hardly ever uses outrage unboosted, any decent player can get a dragon dance before sweeping with outrage. Sd ray hardly ever carries outrage, as rayquaza is quite slow w/o a speed boost. Mixed ray doesn't usually carry outrage.
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What's more important? Actual bulk or Typing?
- Thread starter tripe
- Start date
I would probably say that typing is ultimately the deciding factor. While there are obviously some exceptions to the rule, like Blissey, there's a reason why they are exceptions; they are exceptional. Not many (no) Pokemon have the raw defensive stats that Blissey have, and so it doesn't matter so much about her typing. However, Pokemon who are not so blessed, like Scizor and Dialga (although Dialga's stats are great), rely on their wonderful defensive typing. Even though Scizor's Special Defense is nowhere near high, it has little problems switching in on some powerful Dragon-type attacks due simply to its Steel-typing. If Scizor wasn't a Steel-type, I doubt it would ever be used in Ubers at all (especially seeing as Bullet Punch would lack STAB).
But yeah, obviously when there are exceptions with monstrous defensive stats like Giratina, Blissey, and Lugia, then stats are more important.
But yeah, obviously when there are exceptions with monstrous defensive stats like Giratina, Blissey, and Lugia, then stats are more important.
Take Surskit's case. In the B&W thread they are talking about a better Bug/Water type. Surskit's base stats (in order of HP/Attack/Defense/Speed/Sp At/Sp Def) of 40/30/32/65/50/52 are WAY subpar. If only they had an uber with this typing...
A fire/ice blissey would not be NU (if not for SR). It gains resistances to bug, grass and ice and STAB flamethrower/icebeam, in exchange for losing immunity to ghost, maintaining a 2x weakness to fighting, and gaining a 2x weakness to water and 4x weakness to rock. The weakness to water is unfortunate, but this blissey would still have special walling capabilities.
The nail in the coffin is perhaps the 50% damage taken upon switching in Stealth Rock, which brings us to another question: Does resistance to Stealth Rock inherent to Typing affect performance? Of course it does. Many cases can be cited of NU and UU pokemon that are nerfed by SR. I have no experience with the Uber tier, but for those who do, imagine Ho-oh, Lugia, Rayquaza and Shaymin-S NOT losing health everytime they switch in?
I beleive that weather defensive Typing or stats matter, depends on what style you are playing.
For instance, for a stall team, you would obviously choose Blissey to sponge special attacks, because of her amazing stats. However, for an offensive team, something such as Dialga or Scizor are often chosen as defensive check because of their typing. And furthermore, on offensive teams, you usually cant use dedicated walls, and therefore need to have good type synergy to maintain momentum.
For instance, for a stall team, you would obviously choose Blissey to sponge special attacks, because of her amazing stats. However, for an offensive team, something such as Dialga or Scizor are often chosen as defensive check because of their typing. And furthermore, on offensive teams, you usually cant use dedicated walls, and therefore need to have good type synergy to maintain momentum.
The strength behind stall is defensive synergy, blissey and groudon go together and the rest of the team strengthen that core. Offensive teams rely on brute strength to rip other teams, and requires less synergy than stall.
Typing certainly does a lot more than stats, especially when you consider what STAB options a Pokemon has as a result. For example, Rock suffers from horrible STABS while Dragon has a bunch of high powered options. Garchomp wouldn't have gotten into Ubers were it not for his nearly unresisted Dragon-Ground STABs and high base power moves. Not to mention resistance to SR and Sandstorm. Consider that Heracross is somewhat viable in Ubers due to his Fighting-Bug STABs hitting much of the tier for SE, while something like Gyarados is not. This also illustrates the hindrance of typing, as Gyarados has no good Flying STAB and a relatively weak Water STAB.
Bounce is not considered good? Bounce is similar to Fly (including the fact that a Thunder can hit you) except the chance to paralyze; it has only 5PP (8 when maxed) and has 85% accuracy for 85BP. And 80BP is relatively weak for Waterfall compared to Earthquake's 100 (and Stone Edge's 100).
I would say that typing is more important look at bastiodon 60/168/138 defences it is great right? but the horible typing steel/rock dumped it in NU because it has x4 weakness to both ground and fightining which are one of the most popular atacking types in OU. if it would be pure steel or at least steel/ground I believe this pokemon would be one of the best walls
Obviously, both are important... but I think that typing is probably more important, and here's why-- look at Giratina. It's got some of the best bulk statwise of any Uber Pokemon, but regular-forme Giratina is rarely used due to weaknesses to many of the common Uber attack types-- Ghost, Dark, Ice, and Dragon. Blissey, while not resistant typewise to anything that matters but Ghost, is also not weak to too much in Ubers (Fighting isn't as common as Giratina's four weaknesses tend to be). Typing is also what saves Dialga, as you mentioned in the OP.