What's your opinion on Anti-Clause abuse?

Duckster

Duckster

The reason I ask; PBR random Wi-Fi. There are absolutely no clauses what-so-ever. You can make teams of Deoxys and Darkrai and continually put things to sleep. You can have teams with 6 Focus Sashes, and you can whore Dark Void in 2v2. Really, anything goes.

The first random battle I played, I was somewhat unprepared. I had something like Blissey / Mew / Gyarados at the time. The rest of my team I had no intent on using. My opponent on the other hand appeared to be using a standard 6v6 team, something you'd expect to see used around here, or on Shoddy battle. In the end I had a Calm Mind Mew, and a Gyarados left against his standalone Blissey, but he cleverly predicted the switch to Gyara and used Sing, after he had already slept my Mew. I'm not going to lie, I was furious. I promptly DCed and called him out as the least honorable player I had ever seen.

Over the summer, however, I began reflecting on the battle, and I think my opinion is starting to change. Actually.... I currently use the most bastardly 3v3 team possible as far as I'm concerned. It was designed with the intent of completely and utterly abusing the lack of Rules on Wi-Fi, something that would put that last opponent to shame. It doesn't have any Ubers, but I designed the team with them in mind.

My question to you; do you consider it fair game to repetitively abuse sleep inducing moves and Ubers? Or should we, the skilled community, try and abide by standard rules as much as possible, and not use "dirty" tactics when playing randoms on Wi-Fi?
 
Well, 6 focus sashes is all fine and dandy... the vast majority of players here use spikes / stealth rocks. And a good set of players use hail / sandstorm (Abomasnow is 10th most popular lead right now, and T-Tar and Hippowdon are both in the top 10 most popular pokemon in general).

Focus sash doesn't do much good in the current metagame >_>

Anyway, the tricks are not dirty. We play with enforced rules because it is the general perception of this board that pokemon is more fun with these arbitrary rules stuck in.

Battle Revolution: anything goes as far as I'm concerned.
Wi-Fi, rules are always set before the game starts. Aside from "follow the rules", there are no rules.
 
Well, I guess since you used an Uber, he felt that he could Sing twice.

I do think you should be able to set rules though, and search for a match. It would definately make random battles more enjoyable.
 
Well, I wasn't actually that concerned about the "6 Focus Sash" part, I was just pointing out how annoying that can get.

Dragontamer said:
Well, 6 focus sashes is all fine and dandy... the vast majority of players here use spikes / stealth rocks. And a good set of players use hail / sandstorm (Abomasnow is 10th most popular lead right now, and T-Tar and Hippowdon are both in the top 10 most popular pokemon in general).

Focus sash doesn't do much good in the current metagame >_>
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I meant in PBR.

I'm not sure how much 3v3 you guys play around here, but things like Spikes and Stealth Rock are almost never, if at all, used. In fact I literally try and switch as little as possible even without those moves in effect.

Endeavor Smeargle immediately comes to mind in this mode for me (and its currently what I use), because I can just Spore and Endeavor entire teams for the win before they can do anything.

In the rare event I see Tyranitar, I just don't use him and I revert to one of my other strategies.
 
I was just about to say, you dont get SR in 3 on 3 and you always get sashes...
 
My question to you; do you consider it fair game to repetitively abuse sleep inducing moves and Ubers? Or should we, the skilled community, try and abide by standard rules as much as possible, and not use "dirty" tactics when playing randoms on Wi-Fi?
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That question answers itself. We are the "skilled" community so why should we need to abuse dirty tactics in order to secure victory?

Where would the fun be in spamming Yanmega Hypnosis, then killing the sleeping Pokemon? If anyone did that to me, I'd just shut down the Wii and go do something more entertaining...like eating sawdust.
 
PBR brings alot of interesting experances for me. The pure, anything goes, environment, instead of filling me with the urge to whip out the poke-penis of broken-ness, I seem to fall back, more and more on BL/UU pokes, and avoid over-sleeping a team, unless I start backslideing into my own death.
A team I have...pritty much been useing for a good while (not fully OU at least, but really the mvp..is Persian) Persian, Agili-gross, Uxie/Reversal-lucario. It kinda is hard to say, what is right to do...when I see a team of Ho-oh, Rayquazza, and Palkia..low and behold Persian takes the whole team...but only out of the fact that Persian, after getting a 2H KO on Ray, sleeping palkia...was sleeping the ho-oh, an honorable thing to do? and yet, I felt justifying at the same time.

Its like you want to find a sort of balance, but at the same time, 3 man teams, struggle to find their balance... Just after I got done soft SR-ing for a manaphy in its TRU cerish ball...it aginst...everything it saw on pbr, was a murder house.

So many noob teams (6 un EV trained movie darkrai)...then next minute you will see a well built OU teams with a uber in tow....

I find my self able to turn the other cheek with sleep moves, as if my use of BL/UU teams makes up for it, but then that feels like making excuses.
 
You're allowed to use Sleep Talk, too.
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Yes, but the rules state 3 vs 3. I'm not keen on the idea of 1/3rd of my team being limited to such a shallow moveset, just to prevent the opponent from being a dick. If Sleep Clause is present in an environment where only 1/6th of your team are disabled by it, then why on earth would anyone promote the idea of getting rid of Sleep Clause in 3vs3? Sleep is already TWICE as effective in that metagame as 1/3 of your team is disabled.
 
Speaking of a Sleep Clause-less, 3v3 metagame, how common is Dream Eater on PBR? I've seen my fair share of that move in the D/P Battle Tower where I'm always skittish about switching out after being Slept without Sleep Clause in effect. Of course, then Dream Eater takes a big chunk of my Pokemon's HP.

It seems a fast Sleeper + Dream Eater could easily play some serious mindgames in such an environment.

Then again, since there's no uber clause, just spam Dark Void/CM/Sub/Dark Pulse Darkrai. Aside from random Scarf users or Mach Punchers, you should win easily.
 
Not to mention that I don't want my victory to be sealed within a 33% chance of success. Of course its better than nothing, but hardly effective.

I find Sleep Talk more useful in 6v6 where you can promptly switch it out and at least have something somewhat useable while they can't put anything else to sleep. That's not at all possible in this environment.

On a side note, I have toyed with the idea of Sleep Talk / CC /Megahorn Heracross for my own team.
 
i personally HATE clauses, any clause and i also hate it when people use ubers on PBR. i don't care about clauses, but i can't stand ubers.
 
3 vs 3 on pbr is fine, that is only if the people using ubers didn't ev train them/they don't have good ivs.

The thing I don't like is that the random battles are only 3 vs 3
 
xBLUEx said:
i personally HATE clauses, any clause and i also hate it when people use ubers on PBR. i don't care about clauses, but i can't stand ubers.
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Eh, what?

The non-use of Ubers is a clause btw. Clauses balance the game and make it more enjoyable for sure, and the only people that don't like to use them like to spam sleep/evasion for a cheap win.
 
Just think if sleep clause was turned off, or double team was on...double team is a bitch, and so is having all your pokes put to sleep. Anyways clauses bring balance, so yea
 
I usually play to win, so I'd just build a team that fits with the new ruleset. Just like when you transition from OU to Ubers on Shoddy you don't use the same strategies or Pokemon, just change tactics when transitioning from Shoddy to PBR. Nobody complains that Ubers are cheap when playing that metagame, so it's pointless to complain that stuff like sleeping the whole team "sucks the fun out of the game" or "is cheap" in an environment without Sleep clause.
 
PBR 3v3 is basically the Wild West of pokemon. So you have the option to view it as a fun challenge, playing with whatever pokemon you find fun and applying whatever standard rules you have for yourself and seeing if you can still win, OR you can just play to win, use ubers and any tactic necessary to defeat your opponent.

Any other expectations are completely ridiculous and intellectually dishonest. When the rules of the game are as loose as PBR, you are idiotic to expect someone not to use highly effective pokemon and strategies and claim its not "honorable." The game doesn't recognize any "honor" when you are playing, so unless you've agreed to some kind of standard rules with your opponent BEFORE the match begins, then it's silly to expect it to be followed.

For instance, the OP says that he was using Mew in his battle against a guy that was running a standard team. Maybe he thought YOU were being dishonorable by playing with an Uber against his standards. You, no doubt, carried Mew with you because you wanted to win. But then you had some ridiculous idea that he couldn't use powerful tactics to counter your powerful character? He, no doubt, used sleep because he wanted to win. He was being no less "dishonorable" (if there even is such a thing) than you were. But you were the one that acted like a child and disconnected. You had imaginary rules drawn up in your head and frankly, you were absolutely in the wrong in that situation. Disconnecting is about as lame as you can get.

So either play to have fun or play to win, but don't expect other people that you've never talked to to magically know what you think is fair or unfair. Any other attitude makes you an idiot.
 
Great Sage, that is exactly how I feel about the situation. Perhaps I should have worded my post a little better, basically I want to know whether or not you guys are going to behave like I did when I first played PBR (which was as stated above, childish).

And for the record, I didn't even use Mew to "win", it was actually one of my 3 trained Pokemon at the time.
 
I personally don't see the point in following the rules we have for playing when there is no leaderboard or some sort of price for winning a given number of battles in PBR.

But I've had bad luck for finding good opponents to fight in PBR ):. Most of them use from 2 to 4 Ubers, or things like 2 Empoleons, 2 Infernapes, 2 Torterras which is pretty newbie and casual.

Anyway, I haven't played on PBR for a while. So I don't know if things had changed or are still the same.
 
I don't think it's fair to use Ubers, but not including other clauses doesn't necessarily ruin the experience. In order to avoid being owned by sleep, for example, you might give a Pokemon a Toxic Orb or Lum Berry to hold, or you could use a Pokemon with Insomnia or Vital Spirit.
 
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