who would win in a fight- 1 billion lions or 1 of every pokemon (roughly 900)?

lions or pokemon?

  • 1 billion lions

    Votes: 43 17.4%
  • 1 of every pokemon

    Votes: 178 72.1%
  • neither of them are real...

    Votes: 26 10.5%

  • Total voters
    247
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p0ip0le

it's a billion lions
see title. there are a billion lions, and there is one of every pokemon from bulbasaur to zarude or whateverthefuck is last.

conditions:
- normal battle conditions; none of them are holding items, and abilities only take effect from the very start (ie nothing activates beforehand). pokemon are all at full PP and full HP. lions are all fed and healthy.
- the lions are typeless and use typeless attacks
- all pokemon media is considered in the pokemon side-- games, anime, manga, movies etc
- all the pokemon know they are there to fight the lions. all the lions know they are there to fight the pokemon. infighting should only occur between species of pokemon already known to fight at every possible opportunity (kyogre/groudon, seviper/zangoose, etc)

now, i am on the lion side. for the sake of the argument, (let's say, hypothetically) i am switching to proper grammar to make it easier on the eyes

--

The lions clearly and very easily win. For calculations, there are 900 Pokemon (and still 1,000,000,000 lions). That's slightly more than 1,111,111 lions per Pokemon.

Pokemon under a BST of 350 can be very easily taken out with one lion alone. That's about 300 Pokemon down, and (1,111,110x300) lions remain from the teams of 1,111,111 lions vs 1 Kricketot to go beat up the rest of the legendaries.

On the topic of legendaries, several can be eliminated instantly. Xerneas and Yveltal sleep for 1,000 years (Xerneas's Pokedex entry) so the chance of them being conscious to fight the lions is small. Giratina is presumably still trapped in the Distortion World, and Groudon and Kyogre would be preoccupied fighting each other (and Rayquaza would be preoccupied distracting them) to fight off the lions. Mewtwo and Arceus have come up in the discussion of legendary Pokemon very often, with the arguments that Mewtwo can simply teleport the lions to the sun, and Arceus is literally God. However, these points are countered by the following:

- Mewtwo was beaten by Red in Pokemon Origins, with 5 fainting and Charizard-Mega-X finally getting Mewtwo weak enough to allow Red to catch it. 6 Pokemon were used to get Mewtwo that weak. A million lions can easily surpass the power of 6 fully trained Pokemon.
- Arceus is weak without its plates (Arceus and the Jewel of Life) and as the conditions stated "no items", Arceus is made weaker.
- The lions are atheists.

Moves like Flamethrower and Earthquake have also come up very frequently as "burn the lions and they die" or "multi-target moves will wipe them out". PP is not exclusively a game construct but one in the anime too; only about 200 Pokemon learn Flamethrower, and at max PP this would be 4,800 Flamethrowers; assuming every Flamethrower instantly kills a lion, this is still an incredibly small amount compared to 1,000,000,000 lions. Earthquake and other multi-hit moves can only hit 5 Pokemon at maximum in a Triple Battle, and multi-hit moves are further powered down in non-Single Battle formats. This also takes the complete piss out of the argument that "Flying-types with special moves will never be touched by the lions" as they would run out of PP for those special moves eventually.

Separately, for those 600 Pokemon that are not instantly beaten by a single lion (see the BST 350 piece), let's assume they all have 4 damaging moves, and each move has 15 PP since that's a relatively common number for moves. 600x60=36,000. Even if every single move killed one lion, that's still 999,964,000 lions left, and those 600 are left to Struggle to death.

As the lions are typeless and do typeless damage to the Pokemon, they have no weaknesses. Nothing resists them. They can hit Ghost-types and Steel-types for neutral damage. Wonder Guard does not make a Pokemon immune to typeless damage, so Shedinja surviving all of it through Wonder Guard is not only a shit argument, but completely incorrect.

Alakazam can do math. Alakazam has an IQ of 5,000 (Pokedex entry; millions higher than Pokemon voters). Alakazam is smart. Alakazam can calculate that the Pokemon side has no fucking chance against a billion lions, and telepathically tell the other Psychic-types that they're not going to win this. Assuming all the Psychic-types (about 100) leave because they have decent self-preservation skills, that leaves 900 minus the 300 that instantly die (BST 350) and again minus 100 Psychic-types, leaving 500 Pokemon to fight a billion lions.

Finally, the magnum opus of my argument, the piece which I consider the most important:

It's a billion fucking lions.

1606789997211.png
 
Last edited:

quziel

I am the Scientist now
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Top CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a member of the Battle Simulator Staff
Lions can bite (Dark type), Slash (Normal Type), Body Slam (Normal type), and cannot punch. Ergo this magnezone can beat all the lions.

Magnezone @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Body Press
- Recycle
- Rest
- Iron Defense

Lions defeated.
 

p0ip0le

it's a billion lions
Lions can bite (Dark type), Slash (Normal Type), Body Slam (Normal type), and cannot punch. Ergo this magnezone can beat all the lions.

Magnezone @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Body Press
- Recycle
- Rest
- Iron Defense

Lions defeated.
"- the lions are typeless and use typeless attacks" fifth line. checkmate.

edit: also no items, 4th line
 

Violet

another dogged contender
is a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Jesus Christ, the answer should be so obvious.
- Pokemon control the space-time continuum. What is stopping Palkia or Giratina from hiding in rifts/distortion world until the Earth is consumed by the sun. I bet the lions will have a lot of fun when Dialga freezes time and wipes them all out.
- Pokemon manipulate landmasses/the sea/the weather/every physical realm. Say P-Groudon plateaus all the mons and lowers everything else into magma. Or has P-Kyogre flood the world. Lions die, ggs. Given that rayquaza LIVES in the ozone layer, what's stopping it from chilling there and raining down hellfire on the lions whenever it wants? Can lions even touch the ghost mons? They sure can't access the fliers or the underground mons, and can't feasibly attack the marine ones.
YOU COULD HAVE A TRILLION LIONS, THE END RESULT DOES NOT CHANGE. You kill Yveltal, all lions instantly perish anyway. Speaking of perish,
- Perish song? Hello?
- Eternatus can manually g-max mons. Now you have gods, but bigger. I sure bet lions will be able to put a dent in a registeel the size of a skyscraper. If we g-max pyroar, do the lions treat it like the alpha male and give up?
- PP isn't real. What pp does palkia use to open rifts. Oh? None? That's crazyyyyy it's almost like it's a game exclusive mechanic woooow.
With all this being said, ggs lion believers, come back when you also have literal deities on your side and not a bunch of mindless cats.
 
Jesus Christ, the answer should be so obvious.
- Pokemon control the space-time continuum. What is stopping Palkia or Giratina from hiding in rifts/distortion world until the Earth is consumed by the sun. I bet the lions will have a lot of fun when Dialga freezes time and wipes them all out.
- Pokemon manipulate landmasses/the sea/the weather/every physical realm. Say P-Groudon plateaus all the mons and lowers everything else into magma. Or has P-Kyogre flood the world. Lions die, ggs. Given that rayquaza LIVES in the ozone layer, what's stopping it from chilling there and raining down hellfire on the lions whenever it wants? Can lions even touch the ghost mons? They sure can't access the fliers or the underground mons, and can't feasibly attack the marine ones.
YOU COULD HAVE A TRILLION LIONS, THE END RESULT DOES NOT CHANGE. You kill Yveltal, all lions instantly perish anyway. Speaking of perish,
- Perish song? Hello?
- Eternatus can manually g-max mons. Now you have gods, but bigger. I sure bet lions will be able to put a dent in a registeel the size of a skyscraper. If we g-max pyroar, do the lions treat it like the alpha male and give up?
- PP isn't real. What pp does palkia use to open rifts. Oh? None? That's crazyyyyy it's almost like it's a game exclusive mechanic woooow.
With all this being said, ggs lion believers, come back when you also have literal deities on your side and not a bunch of mindless cats.
I don't know man, there's like 1 billion of them that's a lot...
 

Violet

another dogged contender
is a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
I don't know man, there's like 1 billion of them that's a lot...
Speaking of this billion number, it def wont be a billion when they "reach" (haha get it because they wont) the pokemon, because of inevitable infighting and devastating trampling. if there are any cubs in this number they all die frame 1 just to getting run over by this pack of stupid animals
 

Eli

any?
is a Battle Simulator Moderator
ok GAMERS there is one answer (its pokemon we just need to not have this be too one sided)

i (morytha) have very sound logic, no dispute, havi and i are fellow lion and large number enthusiasts so we would best know how much power they wield, while also being varied enough to know pokemon and their lore, and how they will run out of pp which is a real thing, otherwise they would not be forced to use struggle!

my point on them leaving the field being equal to a forfeit is supported by the game itself where if you leave the battle you forfeit because that is how it works.

assuming they use perish song, there are undoubtedly several deaf lions, because we do all agree that a billion is quite a large number, so they will be unaffected

lions will make more lions if they get camped out by those flying pokemon and eventually evolve to have wings, assuming for some reason those flyers dont get tired
1606791349944.png

here is a sample of what is to come from lion (deluxe edition)


also the space thing isnt too related but im right
 
ok GAMERS there is one answer (its pokemon we just need to not have this be too one sided)

i (morytha) have very sound logic, no dispute, havi and i are fellow lion and large number enthusiasts so we would best know how much power they wield, while also being varied enough to know pokemon and their lore, and how they will run out of pp which is a real thing, otherwise they would not be forced to use struggle!

my point on them leaving the field being equal to a forfeit is supported by the game itself where if you leave the battle you forfeit because that is how it works.

assuming they use perish song, there are undoubtedly several deaf lions, because we do all agree that a billion is quite a large number, so they will be unaffected

lions will make more lions if they get camped out by those flying pokemon and eventually evolve to have wings, assuming for some reason those flyers dont get tired
View attachment 295540
here is a sample of what is to come from lion (deluxe edition)


also the space thing isnt too related but im right
Lions: Pokemon can't use items

Also lions: posts a chimera
 
Okay, here's the thing.
Yes, a billion is a insanely large number, a number that many of us can barely really truly understand.

But these are mythical fucking beasts with control over elements, space, time, one's a goat that also happens to be a god, controls land, sea, air, you got some fucking aliens and interdenominational beings, ghosts, giant rock and steel snakes, Pokemon that can also be Mega-evo'd, be fucking massive, fire off ultra powerful moves using crystals, have a legendary that can just fucking absorb all the light and create a giant death ball that can literally destroy shit. You have AOE moves that can affect a ton of lions. Not to mention, you have flying Pokemon, swimming Pokemon, underground Pokemon, ultra-fast Pokemon. You have a genius intellect Pokemon created by scientists who can just annihilate minds and create hurricanes with psychic powers. You have a goddamn death bird.

There is no realistic way the lions win this with their toolkit of teeth, size, claws and numbers. They just don't have the power, intelligence, nor really any sort of quantifiable way of winning other than pure numbers.

Pokemon win. Cash money, bitch.
 
tl;dr: mons win


Let's give lion supporters the benefit of the doubt and ignore these arguments:

"Lions will have a hard time against Steel types and Ghost types!"
"Lions will have a hard time reaching pokemon that can naturally levitate, have the ability Levitate, or are just straight up flying!"
"Lions can't go against a Pokemon like Macargo who apparently has a body temperature 10,000 degrees Fahrenheit"
"There are literal deities in Pokemon that control things such as time and space!"
"Why can't Pokemon just use Perish Song and call it a wrap?"

Though all these arguments are actually completely sound, there are still plenty ways that Pokemon absolutely decimate a billion lions.

The lions clearly and very easily win. For calculations, there are 900 Pokemon (and still 1,000,000,000 lions). That's slightly more than 1,111,111 lions per Pokemon.

Pokemon under a BST of 350 can be very easily taken out with one lion alone. That's about 300 Pokemon down, and (1,111,110x300) lions remain from the teams of 1,111,111 lions vs 1 Kricketot to go beat up the rest of the legendaries.
I think it's been made very clear that all Pokemon are not made equal. A Kricketot is literally not doing anything to a single lion, and most certainly won't carry its weight by trying to kill 1.1 million lions. Though based on the actual games plotline and the anime, due to certain mishaps in regards to Eternatus, some Pokemon can just inexplicably Dynamax due to Eternatus's presence, making it obnoxiously large and significantly more difficult for lions to kill. Not only does an awful move like Bide suddenly become an incredibly viable blast of energy known as Max Strike, the most worthless Pokemon with little to no moves are made viable. Especially if you include the fact that some Pokemon don't even have to attack while forcibly Dynamaxed, they can literally just step on the god damned lions.

Also you can literally just Dynamax a fucking Pyroar and make it the alpha of the pack, as lions are pack like animals. You create a new alpha that can't be beat, you have a new leader. What lions gonna attest to a Dynamax Pyroar that can Max Flare anything that opposes the ever living shit out of it??

And don't give me that "Pokemon can only be Dynamaxed for 3 turns" shit either, because Pokemon forcibly Dynamaxed by things such as Eternatus just chill in raid battles indefinitely while Dynamaxed.

On the topic of legendaries, several can be eliminated instantly. Xerneas and Yveltal sleep for 1,000 years (Xerneas's Pokedex entry) so the chance of them being conscious to fight the lions is small. Giratina is presumably still trapped in the Distortion World, and Groudon and Kyogre would be preoccupied fighting each other (and Rayquaza would be preoccupied distracting them) to fight off the lions. Mewtwo and Arceus have come up in the discussion of legendary Pokemon very often, with the arguments that Mewtwo can simply teleport the lions to the sun, and Arceus is literally God. However, these points are countered by the following:

- Mewtwo was beaten by Red in Pokemon Origins, with 5 fainting and Charizard-Mega-X finally getting Mewtwo weak enough to allow Red to catch it. 6 Pokemon were used to get Mewtwo that weak. A million lions can easily surpass the power of 6 fully trained Pokemon.
- Arceus is weak without its plates (Arceus and the Jewel of Life) and as the conditions stated "no items", Arceus is made weaker.
Deities aside, as stated above, Pokemon are still fully capable of keeping themselves away from direct contact with lions. You still have Pokemon constantly supporting one another with possibilities such as Helping Hand, Heal Pulse, etc. Furthermore, common practice VGC Moves, such as redirection moves like Follow Me and Rage Powder would absolutely bewilder the ever living shit out of a fucking dumb lion who's primary instinct is to hunt and kill. When presented against over 900 creatures to possibly kill, it most certainly doesn't aim for the damn creatures that are arguably 10x larger than it and have damn near no way of approaching such colossal beasts, even if there are a million of them. As said before, a lot of Pokemon aren't made equally, and most of them will likely not even be able to put in their fair share of work/kills, but there are plenty that can carry the work.

Take Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre for example. These Pokemon historically fucking hate each other and will probably attack one another first, as it finds tiny ass creatures like lions to be inconsiquential to them, as they can freely control the weather at will. By attacking one another, it's true that some Pokemon would get caught in the crossfire and likely perish, but so will the fucking lions too. You can't even argue that Primal mons will tire themselves out, they are fierce giants that cause absolute fucking chaos and something as dangerous as that will almost always trigger a god damn flight or fight response in a lions brain. If you genuinely think the lion will choose flight over something that towers over them, suddenly exudes fierce heat that evaporates water upon contact, then you unfortunately side with the wrong group!!!!

- The lions are atheists.
ok

Moves like Flamethrower and Earthquake have also come up very frequently as "burn the lions and they die" or "multi-target moves will wipe them out". PP is not exclusively a game construct but one in the anime too; only about 200 Pokemon learn Flamethrower, and at max PP this would be 4,800 Flamethrowers; assuming every Flamethrower instantly kills a lion, this is still an incredibly small amount compared to 1,000,000,000 lions. Earthquake and other multi-hit moves can only hit 5 Pokemon at maximum in a Triple Battle, and multi-hit moves are further powered down in non-Single Battle formats. This also takes the complete piss out of the argument that "Flying-types with special moves will never be touched by the lions" as they would run out of PP for those special moves eventually.
Yes it's true that PP is a limiting construct for moves from Pokemon to be constantly dished out, but the very thing you sourced states:

Unlike other stats, PP has not been directly referenced in the anime. However, many Pokémon have been seen to have trouble using a specific move repeatedly, such as Ash's Pikachu's increasing weakness using Thunderbolt on Mewtwo's Poké Balls as they chased him down in Mewtwo Strikes Back.
This goes without saying for any living creature, not just Pokemon; if you do the same exact thing over and over and over again, you're bound to run out of energy and get tired. Idk about you but trying to take down a colossal beast that can either summon a fierce drought that evaporates water in an instant or can summon storms and absolutely flood the battlefield seems like a fucking hassle to deal with.

Separately, for those 600 Pokemon that are not instantly beaten by a single lion (see the BST 350 piece), let's assume they all have 4 damaging moves, and each move has 15 PP since that's a relatively common number for moves. 600x60=36,000. Even if every single move killed one lion, that's still 999,964,000 lions left, and those 600 are left to Struggle to death.

As the lions are typeless and do typeless damage to the Pokemon, they have no weaknesses. Nothing resists them. They can hit Ghost-types and Steel-types for neutral damage. Wonder Guard does not make a Pokemon immune to typeless damage, so Shedinja surviving all of it through Wonder Guard is not only a shit argument, but completely incorrect.

Alakazam can do math. Alakazam has an IQ of 5,000 (Pokedex entry; millions higher than Pokemon voters). Alakazam is smart. Alakazam can calculate that the Pokemon side has no fucking chance against a billion lions, and telepathically tell the other Psychic-types that they're not going to win this. Assuming all the Psychic-types (about 100) leave because they have decent self-preservation skills, that leaves 900 minus the 300 that instantly die (BST 350) and again minus 100 Psychic-types, leaving 500 Pokemon to fight a billion lions.

Finally, the magnum opus of my argument, the piece which I consider the most important:

It's a billion fucking lions.
If you really wanna pull the PP card, then sure. What's stopping a Skill Swap Trevenant with Harvest and a Leppa Berry? Could Role Play too! If we happen to ignore the fact that the lions will have fighting within their forces and the fact that Pokemon will ALSO happen to have fighting in their own forces, the synergy Pokemon have are absolutely insane and can easily topple 1 billion lions. The argument was never "Can 1 of each Pokemon win against 1 billion lions and all come out unscathed," it was "What would win in a fight, 1 billion lions, or 1 of every Pokemon.

The argument you present intentionally voids information out via exclusion of certain pokemon that would VERY easily cause problems for the side you fight for, such as exclusion of Xerneas and Yveltal and Giratina, (all major arguing points that definitely support the Pokemon winning argument.) A lot of the points made also have in mind the fact that the arguments listed above that support Pokemon aren't in effect. Basically what I'm saying is:

TL;DR: Mons win.




I haven't posted anything in any thread in several years on smogon but this is the hill i am willing to die on
 
On the topic of legendaries, several can be eliminated instantly. Xerneas and Yveltal sleep for 1,000 years (Xerneas's Pokedex entry) so the chance of them being conscious to fight the lions is small.
so you’re using xerneas’s and yveltal’s pokedex entries as arguments against them, but i’m assuming that the pokedex stating that magcargo is hotter than the sun conveniently doesn’t count?
 
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