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Why is there a species clause?
- Thread starter pictish
- Start date
I'm sorry, but that's completely wrong and ignoring several important factors.
Firstly, yes: You don't know each exact set your opponent is running until you've seen their moves. That has no bearing on this discussion whatsoever. The obvious difference is that having multiples of the same Pokemon adds an entirely extra layer of guessing. Sure, I might see Salamence and think "Fuck, what's its moveset", but that's a guess I have to make once. After they've made their first move I know whether I'm dealing with a DD, Specs, Band or mixed variation simply by looking at what attack they used and how much damage it did.
At this point I have no way of knowing if they're carrying another Salamence. The point is, in a regular battle, you'll have to guess the set of every Pokemon you see once before you have a general idea. In a metagame without species clause, you'd have to guess the set of your opponent every single time he switches in a Pokemon, because you simply don't know if the Pokemon you're looking at now is the same as the one you were looking at before. Until you've seen six different Pokemon, your opponent could be carrying a double of any of the Pokemon you've seen so far, so you have to guess every time something comes in. That isn't strategy. That's a coin flip.
Your "workaround" isn't a good solution. Because that, again, adds another element to the game that is separate from the battle itself. Instead of thinking "The opponent's Blissey has Twave/SToss/SB/IB", I'll have to think "The opponent's Blissey named Fat Whore has Twave/SToss/SB/IB". And I'll have to remember the nickname/set combination of every Pokemon my opponent sends out on the off chance that they have a second Pokemon of the same species hanging around. Why should we alter the game so that our ability to memorize nicknames mid-game is just as important as, if not more so, than knowing the general capabilities of common Pokemon beforehand?
This team is unstoppable!
Sashed BoomLicky x4
Banded Weavile x2
BOOM BABY BOOM!
Sashed BoomLicky x4
Banded Weavile x2
BOOM BABY BOOM!
Steelix,steelix,bye bye
You do realize the LickyLicky can use Fire Blast right?
Do you realize that a team is formed by 6 pokes,not 1,right?
Shuckle is there.Curse,SD,Fire Blast,whatever is Encored and switch to something.A 252/252 sp.def Steelix can just Explode then.
Expecting one pokemon to counter 6 another equal ones is dumb.It will always be a set to counter its counters.Needs at least two to deal with.
Wants a better counter?Regirock.Power Whip without stab is too weak to get through its defenses...Exploding then...Weavile's Brick Break?lol,while i curse and pwn.
Whatever...no team is uncounterable.Exclamation point.
Hiya Aruseus.
I'd like to see it tested just to run a few Smeragles passing to Medicham and Lucario.
EDIT: I wouldn't have a problem memorizing nicknames or even shiny/not shiny. That was how I remembered the HP types of Roserades I ran on different teams. I always forgot which team had the one with HP Ice but then I nickamed them and have never forgotten.
I'd like to see it tested just to run a few Smeragles passing to Medicham and Lucario.
EDIT: I wouldn't have a problem memorizing nicknames or even shiny/not shiny. That was how I remembered the HP types of Roserades I ran on different teams. I always forgot which team had the one with HP Ice but then I nickamed them and have never forgotten.
But what if your opponent isn't so considerate as to make his/her pokes easily identifiable from the others? XD
That's why we make it a requirement. If the opponent doesn't choose different nicknames for the copies, they are automatically dubbed "Garchomp1, Garchomp2, Garchomp3".
Of course this could end up like RSBots in which everyone is abusing the bad font to trick people looking for different names (I have been Mean Looked by many an Umbreon I assumed to be Vaporeon). While Shoddy's font is a lot better, you could take one from blink-182 and call a pair of Blissey 'dick lips' and 'click lips' and no one knows until it's too late.
Of course this could end up like RSBots in which everyone is abusing the bad font to trick people looking for different names (I have been Mean Looked by many an Umbreon I assumed to be Vaporeon). While Shoddy's font is a lot better, you could take one from blink-182 and call a pair of Blissey 'dick lips' and 'click lips' and no one knows until it's too late.
I didn't know a team with six Wobbuffet had Wish Support and could OHKO Spiritomb.
I guess it depends on your definition of "filled with Wobbuffet".
There was a great warstory a few months bak where both teams used Cleffa and Metronome.
Yes Regirock... keep Cursing as my Booming Licky's annialate you with Surf... I can 4HKO you with no EV investement on your 252/252 Impish Regirock.
You think you can win but think again. For a Rain Dance on Licki will make you quite sad.
Seriously, 4 Lickilickis with Explosion/Weather Move/Fire Blast/Surf and Focus Sash can pretty much wipe up whatever needs to be before using Explosion to finish it. The Weaviles are just there to make crap like Mismagius suffer the wrath of Pursuit.
duh,Sandstorm,Tyranitar,Hippowdon?Surf isn't even a 6HKO with Sandstorm active(even if they're all weak to surf)
Exploding?predicted Subs and Protects,lol.
Wants a real REAL counter?2 pokes:a stealth Rock user,and Scarf Lucario.There goes your entire team.
Again,there's no uncounterable team.Stop acting like dumb.
You realize then that you'll be doing an awful lot of switching then, which means you'll be redoing your curses only to switch once again to a T-Tar or Hippo once Rain Dance is up again, both of which will probably be taking passive damage from Surfs in the process, wearing them down.
We must all stop acting like dumb.
We must all stop acting like dumb.
Re: sub - I still don't see anything that isn't saying either 'Forced nicknames', since the travesty of having to memorise nicknames isn't actually that stressful.
You might have to face two salamance and it might be a double, but how is this harder to predict than facing a salamence with the options for specs/CB/Mix and then a garchomp with SD/powder/Chain/Scarf/band?
I also cannot take seriously points like "When I see they have salamence I don't know if they have another one" since this is only 1 pokemon harder than playing with species clause (or possibly 5 if they've revelaed all their team but one) and still comes with the disadvantage of having a team with less diversity. Unless of course there are pokemon so very powerful that they are always preferable to other options, and if this is true then that's something rather interesting to think about.
Also, it looks like everyone has a million ideas for how to play with no species clause. Why is this a bad thing? Imagine if we'd just got rid of the item clause. "Oh my god, I could possibly use a stall team now that I can run more than 1 leftovers". Everyone has their pet 'Wouldn't this be unbeatable?' species heavy team. What's wrong with that?
Ah well.
You might have to face two salamance and it might be a double, but how is this harder to predict than facing a salamence with the options for specs/CB/Mix and then a garchomp with SD/powder/Chain/Scarf/band?
I also cannot take seriously points like "When I see they have salamence I don't know if they have another one" since this is only 1 pokemon harder than playing with species clause (or possibly 5 if they've revelaed all their team but one) and still comes with the disadvantage of having a team with less diversity. Unless of course there are pokemon so very powerful that they are always preferable to other options, and if this is true then that's something rather interesting to think about.
Also, it looks like everyone has a million ideas for how to play with no species clause. Why is this a bad thing? Imagine if we'd just got rid of the item clause. "Oh my god, I could possibly use a stall team now that I can run more than 1 leftovers". Everyone has their pet 'Wouldn't this be unbeatable?' species heavy team. What's wrong with that?
Ah well.
Yes,then ther's another 3 pokes to deal with.
Yes,we must all stop acting like that:naughty:
Imagine facing 6 Bronzongs with TR. I once played without it. Don't anymore.
Bronzong isn't particularly threatening, so I'd be much more afraid of two Trick Room Bronzongs and four Pokemon to take advantage of Trick Room. If you're facing six Bronzongs, Taunt Gyarados has fun, and all you really need to do to beat them is let something sleep, and send in something with offense.
You're still missing the basic point that every time they send in a Garchomp/Salamence/Luvdisc, I don't know if its the same one and thus I have to guess again. And until I've seen six different Pokemon, I have to guess every single time something comes in.
With your example, I guess what Salamence has once. I guess what Garchomp has once. Without species clause, I've got to make that same guess every time they appear unless I know for a fact they're not carrying doubles.
Again, nicknames do technically solve the problem but they add a completely new element to the game. No longer am I decently prepared for a battle by knowing the basic capabilities of commonly seen Pokemon. Now I have to associate sets to nicknames and I have to check it every time a Pokemon comes in (until I've seen 6 different ones). There's also the matter of EV spreads; One Cresselia may be Defensive, one may be Special Defensive, which is yet another thing I have to try and memorize (I imagine it would be a decent mindfuck to have two Cresselia with identical sets but drastically different EV spreads). Then someone could name one Cress "Cresselia" and the next "Cressilea", or some other subtle difference that would be easy to miss and easy to confuse. I just don't think nicknames should have any real influence on how we build our strategy mid-battle.
Salamence and SaIamence and Sa1amence.
Depending on the font, any of those could look the same. Also, it's not quite an inability to read a string of english characters so much as your brain automatically interprets words based on the first and last characters and most people have to actively be checking in order to be able to distinguish the difference.
Depending on the font, any of those could look the same. Also, it's not quite an inability to read a string of english characters so much as your brain automatically interprets words based on the first and last characters and most people have to actively be checking in order to be able to distinguish the difference.
