[Wi-Fi] Team Cynthetik returns[needs help with Synergy team!]

[Cynth]

Cynthetik is back, but with a new revamped OU Team.​

After reviewing several comments from multiple sites. I decided to rearrange the team a little to help counter the many common threats in the OU Metagame, while still keeping the FWG core and the Synergy of all 6 teams. Instead of having a full team of sweepers, I set it up so each pokemon plays a specific role in playing their synergy. I may need assistance from RMT Raters to help me make sure all 6 pokemon work together and cover for each other's threats, and take advantage of all 3 entry hazards on the field. ​

Team Cynthetik 2 – At a Glance​

Dr. Pain (Machamp) (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 240 HP/248 Atk/4 Spd/16 SDef
Adamant Nature(+Atk,-SpA)​

- Dynamicpunch
- Bullet Punch
- Ice Punch
- Payback​

Oh great, another Machamp. Booooring…but wait. Let me explain why Machamp is in the team. Machamp acts as the Anti lead, able to easily halt the opponent’s leads from setting up entry hazards, and not at all affected by sleep inducers such as Roserade and Smeargle. Azelf and Aerodactyl can forget about setting up a SR, after being 2HKO with Payback and Bullet Punch respectively. I actually was given a selection of leads. I was down to 3 leads, Attacking Lead Metagross, which was similar to Lead Machamp, except it was one of the very few able to counter Lead Machamps while at the same time, overpower the same leads this featured Machamp can, but Metagross will just add to a Fire Weakness. Icy Wind Gengar, was given to me by a friend was also designed to counter almost every lead in the metagame, except ScarfJirachi.​

The main reason Machamp was chosen over the other two was because the idea behind this team is the Synergy. This guy is also designed to take care of TTar, and Dragonite, and Flygon, that is of course, if he survives. Machamp is also needed to counter Blissey, if Infernape isn’t there to take it out.​

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MonkeyFist (Infernape) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk/64 SpA/192 Spd
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)​

- Close Combat
- Grass Knot
- Mach Punch
- Overheat​

The Fire Type in my FWG core. My last Infernape was a SDApe, this is now the Physically based MixApe. The reason I changed this set is because Infernape is too frail and there won’t be enough time to set up on even the Pokemon he’ll usually counter. So MixApe is going to be the late game clean-up sweeper. Infernape’s job is to cover for my special sweepers, and clear up some of Roserade’s most notable threats. Overheat is able to sweep most Steels, namely Scizor, Skarmory, and Lucario, that Roserade probably can’t take down. Mach Punch and Close Combat for Blissey and TTar. Grass Knot for Bulky waters. He also acts as a cover up for Swampert’s 4x weakness to grass.​

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Mudfish (Swampert) (M) @ Leftovers​

Ability: Torrent​

EVs: 240 HP/216 Atk/52 SDef​

Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)​

- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Roar​

I’m always a huge fan of bulky pokemon, and I mean huge. This baby can take a hit. Especially from boosted DDNite’s Outrage. Stealth Rock is a primary entry hazard, and Roar takes full advantage of the effects of its Stealth Rock, and Roserade’s Spikes and TSpikes, and not to mention to scout for the opponents other Pokes. Earthquake to cover for Heatran, since MixApe and SpikesRose, and Jirachi can’t counter it themselves. IceBeam for DDNite and Flygon.​

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Beauty (Roserade) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/120 Def/136 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)​

- Toxic Spikes
- Spikes
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power [Fire]​

The once beautiful Dancing sweeper, now becomes a Bulky Spiker. Rose’s job is simple, switch her in on a grass type attack due to her 4x resistance to grass. Watch the opponents switch out, allowing her to set up Spikes and T-Spikes. Her EV Spread and her calm nature allows Rose to take 50% damage from Starmie’s IceBeam and 50% Damage from Blissey’s elemental attacks. Energy Ball counters water types like Starmie and Swampert, while HP Fire keeps Forretress, Scizor and Skarmory from ruining the fun. Jirachi, MixPert, and Dusknoir all benefit greatly from Rose’s spikes support, since their sweeping capabilities aren’t the best.​

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Dusknoir (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/28 Atk/228 Def
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spe)​

- Will-o-wisp
- Pain Split
- Thunderpunch
- Fire Punch​

I would have chosen Rotom-W instead. But just this morning Rotom reverted back to its normal form in a Wi-fi match. So I decided to choose a pokemon that already outclasses it in terms of bulk.​

This is the typical spin blocker. I couldn’t decide what to use Dusknoir for, after seeing the Gravity Moveset, which would add to Spikes and Toxic Spikes effectiveness by Spiking Dragonite, and Flygon. Gravity would greatly be a benefit to the team as a whole, but it lacks the Spin Blocker tools to take care of Starmie and Forretress. It’s a hard decision though. So for now I decided to use the Tank set, because it’s movesets provide coverage for the most common Rapid Spinners in OU: Forretress, Starmie and Tentacruel. Due to Dusknoir’s crappy attack stat, this is where Toxic Spikes and Spikes support come into play. Will-O-Wisp is there to cripple most threatening physical attackers, such as Gyarados, and Tyranitar, not to mention out stall the stalls.. Pain Split as the only viable recovery move besides rest.​

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Jirachi @ Leftovers​

Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spe
Bold Nature(+Def, -Atk)​

- Calm Mind
- Wish
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon​

Mismagius’ replacement. In addition to gaining benefit from [T]Spikes support.(Jirachi really needs it for Celebi counters.) Jirachi is chosen because it covers the whole team’s main weakness – Psychic and Flying. Switch Jirachi in on steels, and psychics and stand by for switching. As the opponent switches, begin setting up Calm Mind. Thunderbolt covers the Gyarados and LO Starmie threat. Flash Cannon is greatly welcomed as it deals with Celebi and TTar counters, and with a 40% chance of lowering special defense. Swampert and Dusknoir are my two bulkiest pokemon, but both of them lack a good recovery move, so Jirachi is there to save the day with Wish. With the ability to both set up Calm Mind and Wish, Jirachi can be quite the annoyance to deal with.​

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I created and revamped my team to cover as many threats as possible and have every pokemon play a role in working with each other as a whole group.​

There's one thing I need help with though, in addition to the team rate. Dusknoir's movesets.
I am not sure whether or not to use the Gravity set over the Tank set, so Dusknoir can add to the full effectiveness of Toxic Spikes and Spikes. Or if I should keep the tank set and make Dusknoir the standard spin blocker.​

This is the set found on Smogon's analysis.​

Dusknoir@Leftovers
Bold Nature
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD ​

~ Gravity
~ DynamicPunch / Earthquake
~ Will-O-Wisp
~ Pain Split / Shadow Sneak​

 

[Sin]

I don't have time to completely read this thread, but i did skim through it and your team is weak against a lead or standard crobat four of your pokes are weak (Jirachi, Infernape, Machamp, and Roserade) because it out speeds them. I personally like GravNoir because i have a gravity team and gravity is my favorite weather/field affect, but it's generally refreshing to see Dusknoir being used on teams again. If Swampert is gone, ScarfTran quite literally rips through your team so maybe having a Scarfgon revenge killer would be a good replacement or just switch Dusknoir to the Gravity set with EQ and Shadowsneak (for zapdos, heatran, and ruining DDnite sets with Wisp). A defensive Zapdos set can be used in place of Jirachi to give your team more bulk, a Breloom counter, and an extra roar.
Zapdos @ Leftovers
Bold Nature- Pressure
248 HP / 228 Def / 32 Spe
Thunderbolt - Hidden Power- Ice
Roost - Roar
The standard phys. defensive set from the Srategey Dex covers your problems without losing what you had before with jirachi (bar the poison-resistance, and less SR damage). With an extra roarer, you can switch into the Stat raising pokes that Swampert fears and take care of Gyrados and Dragonite. HP-ice gives you an added Roserade check.

 

[Cynth]

I don't have time to completely read this thread, but i did skim through it and your team is weak against a lead or standard crobat four of your pokes are weak (Jirachi, Infernape, Machamp, and Roserade) because it out speeds them.

At first I doubt that Crobat is bulky enough to withstand Machamp's Ice Punch. I'm not disagreeing with you, but I find it hard to imagine that a speedy pokemon can take a hit.

This is what I've found on the damage calc -

Super Fang does 50% Damage on Machamp.

Machamp's Ice Punch does 64.1% - 76% on Standard Bat.

All I need to do is Bullet Punch before he has a chance of Brave Birding. But it would be wrong to expect my opponent to be stupid.

I was still having that shaky decision with a lead, and you're right, Machamp stands less of a chance as a lead these days because people are already preparing for it, making Machamp a less of a threat. I still am thinking of switching to Metagross lead, which is less prevalent in OU than Machamp. The reason I didn't pick Meta was because I have Jirachi, and Rose, and that would add to a Fire Weakness.

However, Jirachi's actual job is to cover my team's base weaknesses, and threats. LO Starmie, Gyarados, while passing Wishes to Swampert, Roserade and Dusknoir which lack a healing ability, and not to mention he'd still be sweeping teams.

Jirachi walls standard Crobat's set(according to the calc). And Heat wave only does 24.3% - 28.7% on Jirachi without Calm Mind Boost.

 

[BKC]

Why is Machamp's nature Mild?

Also, yes, Crobat can OHKO with Brave Bird and Champ can't OHKO with Ice Punch.

 

[Cynth]

Why is Machamp's nature Mild?

Also, yes, Crobat can OHKO with Brave Bird and Champ can't OHKO with Ice Punch.

Oops. Sorry.

I used Shoddy to form the team. Forgive me

..Is Crobat that bulky?

In that case, I'm changing the lead to Metagross. People are just too prepared for Machamp now.

 

[aVocado]

Use Adamant on Machamp, Adamant is necessary to hit s hard as possible, why the hell are you using Mild anyway ?

Also you have some natures messed up, like on Dusknoir, you have Relaxed while the description says +Atk, -Def but it's +Def -Spe. I say use Impish so you outspeed opposing Dusknoir or somethin'.

Oh and why the hell do you think Lead Bat would go for Super Fang ? Lead Bat is supposed to OHKO Lead Champ with Brave bird. not Super Fang first then BB.

 

[Cynth]

Use Adamant on Machamp, Adamant is necessary to hit s hard as possible, why the hell are you using Mild anyway ?

Also you have some natures messed up, like on Dusknoir, you have Relaxed while the description says +Atk, -Def but it's +Def -Spe. I say use Impish so you outspeed opposing Dusknoir or somethin'.

Oh and why the hell do you think Lead Bat would go for Super Fang ? Lead Bat is supposed to OHKO Lead Champ with Brave bird. not Super Fang first then BB.

Just now I saw that on the Calculator. Brave Bird does indeed OHKO Machamp. I overestimated Machamp's bulk, and think it can take a lot of hits. I did make a mistake and left Machamp as Mild, when it was supposed to Adamant. Sorry..about this.

This was made through the Shoddy Battle team creator, so I can get everything in the correct format for team rating.

 

[SmileZ]

It takes a 120BP super effective STAB move from something with modest attack to OHKO Machamp. He's pretty bulky.

Did you mean to have 64def on Infernape? I always found that if Infernape was going down, he's going down anyway. It may be worth investing those EV's in Spa to power up Overheat or Atk to power up his standard moves.

I think you may have a slight weakness to offensive Zapdos. If it's carrying HP Grass and Roost it can muscle it's way through most of your team. I would suggest replacing Grass Knot with Stone edge on Infernape to help counter the threat, you have Swampert covered by Roserade either way.

Have you tried Psychic on Jirachi? I found that Celebi isn't a huge problem for this set and enjoy the coverage on Infernape and Machamp. once you have a few calm minds under your belt you can stall most Tyranitars out with a mix of wish and thunderbolt which will eventually take them down. If you can get 2 Calm Minds against a team with this set (barring a crit) you can often get 3-4 anyway.

Good luck with the team .

 

[Sin]

It takes a 120BP super effective STAB move from something with modest attack to OHKO Machamp. He's pretty bulky.
Good luck with the team .

As someone who uses a crobat lead, I have to disagree. Crobat's BB OHKOs Machamp 100% of the time.

 

[Faladran]

This looks to be a pretty solid team. You have a potent FWG core along with a spinblocker, and good choices to take advantages of the entry hazards that you set up. It is rather unfortunate that Wi-Fi limits your use of Rotom, but this isn't game-breaking by any means. A couple of things that I'd like to point out: you'll have to play carefully around opposing Infernape, who can deal large amounts of damage to your team, even enough to sweep you clean in some cases. Heatran can also switch freely into Dusknoir's attacks and often net a Flash Fire boost, which will cause it to hit every member of your team hard. Dusknoir's lack of offensive firepower and shaky method of recovery with Pain Split also ensure that it is somewhat of a dead weight against certain teams, particularly as it is outsped and 2HKO'd by common Rapid Spinners such as Starmie.

Your current spinblocker slows down the pace of this team considerably, and lacks any way of posing an offensive threat to the opponent. Although Rotom is unavailable for use, I think the next best thing to try out would be a Choice Scarf Gengar. I wouldn't often recommend this change, but seeing as this is a Wi-Fi team, I feel that it is quite warranted.

[box]

Gengar (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 Spe / 252 SpA
Timid nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Trick
[/box]
This is a rather unorthodox set, but it was very popular a while back, and remains an effective revenge killer in the current metagame. Shadow Ball is for obligatory STAB, and will be your main method of checking Infernape. It will also allow you to outpace and hit LO Starmie, perhaps the most common Rapid Spinner in OU. Focus Blast can be used to hit common Tyranitar switch-ins, and Gengar's own use of Choice Scarf allows it to outspeed even Scarf Tyranitar, meaning that it will often get two chances at getting Focus Blast to hit. Thunderbolt is for revenge killing Gyarados, who will be easily outsped by this variant of Gengar. Finally, Trick cripples special walls such as Blissey or Snorlax who try to sponge your attacks, making it difficult for them to function at all for the rest of the match.

Good luck with your team!

 

[Cynth]

If I'm not comfortable with Focus Blast's accuracy, is it a good idea to replace that with HP Fighting? It's not that I don't like Focus Blast. I'm not saying anything, I thought the Gengar would be perfect. But if there's a problem with the accuracy, is HP fighting a good alternative?

 

[Faladran]

HP Fighting is a perfectly usable alternative option. According to the damage calcs, it should still deal 90.1% - 106.4% to the standard Scarf Tyranitar, meaning it can still net a OHKO after Stealth Rock. I only suggested Focus Blast for the higher power, but its poor accuracy is a rather large concern on this set.

 

[SmileZ]

As someone who uses a crobat lead, I have to disagree. Crobat's BB OHKOs Machamp 100% of the time.

I agree with you. I was stating that just because Machamp is OHKO'd by Crobat's BB it doesn't mean he isn't bulky.


Anyone else see a Zapdos Weakness here or am I imagining it? seems to have gone unnoticed..

 

[Sin]

Yes, and sorry i didn't understand what you typed. There does seem to be a generic weakness to flying types that can use fire type moves well, i.e. Zapdos, Crobat, Honchkrow, and Togekiss. Honchkrow and Zapdos especially. Because you're Ape doesn't carry Stone Edge, it is no match against Zapdos. Swampert can take all of Zapdos' moves well (except HP-grass) but is too slow to do anything. The same problem with Dusknoir who does't even have Ice Punch and if it tried to use WOW would only hit a sub. I like Faladran's idea of Gengar who gives your team the speed it needs and can ruin Zapdos with Trick. Swampert can switch into Honchkrow's SP and hit back with Ice Beam early game, but since it would be your main wall it'll be taking a lot of hits and late game may not be able to take a SP so a secondary wall would be good to have. The Zapdos set I put up earlier in place of Jirachi should work nicely. He and Swampert work well together.

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Bold Nature- Pressure
248 HP / 228 Def / 32 Spe
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power- Ice
-Roost
-Roar

 

[More Cowbell]

I'd suggest exchanging Dusknoir for Gengar. Gengar might not be as bulky, but strikes much harder, and its primary use would be spin-blocking anyways.

Also, seeing as Sin is suggesting a Zapdos, may I suggest something else?

Zapdos @ Life Orb
Modest/Timid Nature
4 Def / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power Ice
- Roost

I've using this myself, and it's a beast. Most opponents will suspect a defensive set, only to find that their would-be counter takes some decent damage from a maxed 125 base SpAtk. This thing seriously dents things, and is still somewhat bulky through decent defensive stats and a great typing. If you're looking to get this in somewhere, put it in the place of Jirachi, I think.

 

[Cynth]

I like the Zapdos, and I will most definitely use Gengar. I'm always a big big fan of bulky pokemon/

But I'm thinking, if Jirachi's gone, who's going to provide heals for Swampert who lacks a recovery move. Do you think this team will need Wish anyway?

I love your comments, you are all giving me so much thought, my head's starting to hurt. :)

 

[Sin]

From the changes people are putting in :
Zapdos > Jirachi
Gengar > Dusknoir

I don't see a real big need for wish support. Wish would be nice, but it's not necessarily needed. You're team covers eachother well enough that Wish would just be a bonus. If you find a good wish-user that can take the place of Nape/ Rose I'd say go for it, but see how the changes so far work before considering a healer.
Some possible healers though are:
Leafeon, Jynx, and Clefable
These three may look like wannabes but their typing and assets (Jynx's Lovely Kiss, Clefable's Magic Guard, Leafeon's bulkiness without making signifigant problems for your team) give them a chance to mesh with your team quite nicely.
But don't think of healers yet!

 

[Cynth]

Lol. I'll definitely go for Zapdos and Gengar then. No healers yet. I also love HP Ice on Zapdos, I was still trying to figure out whether to put Ice Beam or Surf on Swampert for Dragonite checks. And Zapdos along with Gengar is the PERFECT check for BulkyDDGyarados. But question. (Forgive me, I'm full of questions) I'm having a hard time choosing which Zapdos to get, the Specially Based one, or the defensive set. Although I'm very close to going for the defensive Zapdos, I want to know this, if I chose the Special based Zapdos, and there's no EV placement in it's defenses, would it still have a chance to withstand Gyarados' boosted attacks?

 

[Sin]

Not a chance. A +1 Waterfall does between 64.8% - 76.6% on SpecDos. Defensive takes 39.2% - 46.2% which turns into a 3HKO unless you're unlucky enough to get hit with a crit, which sucks.

 

[Sin]

Something just occured to me. You need a spinner for Zapdos. However no one is coming to mind except maybe Bulky Starmie

 

[More Cowbell]

Zapdos doesn't really need a spinner. I've been using an offensive Zapdos lately (no Specs, just Life Orb), and you can often Roost the damage away without too much problems. And while it obviously takes much more damage from a Gyarados, it still easily 1HKOs back. If I'd be a Gyarados-user, I wouldn't risk to keep my Gyarados in against any kind of Zapdos, offensive or not.

 

[Ludicolul]

im not a good rater but that only thing i would change is dusknoirs set. putting w-o-w on noir is pointless!!! (with toxic spikes ofcourse) so using good ol' sub pain split combo can help u out stall many threats. also u might as well put focus punch on it to do damage. and shadow sneak for priority.
sub
painsplit
f-punch
s-sneak
same ev's as the standard tank set. maybe put more in atk.

 

[Cynth]

Thanks so much for your comments guys. They've all really helped a lot, and I'm using your advice, and my best judgement to work this team around in perfect synergy.

I promise to be posting the final team by the end of the day(possibly later than that)

EDIT: Rereading post for post, I have a hard time understanding one thing.

You guys claim that I have a Crobat Lead/Zapdos Weakness. How does Defensive Zapdos help deal with other Zapdos? What if that Zapdos threat in question has the defensive set?

 

[Sin]

If you give Zapdos HP-Ice as we have put then you should be fine, Swampert with Ice Beam also helps, especially with roar, the only thing you have to worry about is Toxic. If you fear toxic, just trick SC onto it with gengar. Hope that clears some things up.