[WIP] Tentacruel someone please take over

[Kingler]

[Pros]

<ul>
<li>It has great special bulk.</li>
<li>A great typing lets it take on Water-type threats.</li>
<li>Its resistance to Fairy allows it to counter Fairy-type Pokemon. A notable one is Azumarill, as Tentacruel resists all its commonly carried attacks.</li>
<li>Access to Rapid Spin allows it to differentiate itself from other bulky Water-types.</li>
</ul>

[Cons]

<ul>
<li>The rain nerf hurt it badly, as its main draw was being a great spinner under rain.</li>
<li>Rain Dish isn't available for it.</li>
<li>Poor offensive presence leaves it as setup bait for sweepers, and the best it can do is hope for a Scald burn.</li>
<li>Its relatively poor physical bulk leaves it susceptible to physical attacks.</li>
<li>It loses to Aegislash except for a Scald burn, which is not very reliable.</li>
</ul>

[Set Recommendations](have discussed this over IRC)

<p>Tentacruel @ Black Sludge<br />
Ability: Clear Body<br />
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe<br />
Bold Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Sludge Bomb / Toxic Spikes / Toxic
- Haze / Protect

• rapid spin gives tentacruel its niche
• scald is main stab and deters physical attackers from switching in/setting up on it
• tspikes let it wear down most Pokemon and works well with lack of common poison types, also it's a staple on stall.
  
• sludge bomb can also be used as it hits fairies florges sylveon azumarill which are imp. as it can check/counter all of 'em
• protect lets it stall for Black Sludge recovery
  
• partners
• toxic can be used but with jelly gone it's not nearly as imp but hey who doesnt want to troll opponents through subs >:D
  
• haze prevents pokes from setting up on it. might not look imp but stops sd blaziken, subdd gyara, dd charizard x etc etc
  
• gets rid of annoying af tspikes

[Checks and Counters]

• Gastrodon
• Ferrothorn

 

[Talvi]

Can't get Rain Dish on Tentacruel right now. No hordes nor safari.

 

[ginganinja]

I would use Clear Body, since you avoid the speed drop from Sticky Web (which is fairly useful as you can rapid spin against faster threats before they can KO you), and I would also mention Haze somewhere. IIRC its incompatible with Rapid Spin for whatever reason (although if im incorrect disregard), but its nice for preventing your opponent setting up on you or whatever. Obviously mention Toxic as well as the move still has use.

 

[Kavatika]

It is compatible, the new breeding mechanics allow egg moves to be passed from either parent. Add to the cons that it can't take stronger physical attacks thanks to 80/65 defense.

 

[alexwolf]

Here is how i would make the set look like:

<p>Tentacruel @ Black Sludge<br />
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe<br />
Bold Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Sludge Bomb / Toxic Spikes
- Haze / Protect

The EV spread is simple. Enough Speed for Jolly Tyranitar and Adamant Breloom and rest to physical bulk. Sludge Bomb is the best option to deal with Azumarill, a Pokemon that Tentacruel at least checks multiple times and even counters under certain circumstances (if it is the Belly Drum set or if rain is up). Furthermore, Tentacruel makes for a great switch-in to 3 attacks + Roost Togekiss and with Sludge Bomb it is able to beat it, while without it Tentacruel gets outlasted. Lastly, Sludge Bomb is Tentacruel's best bet against Gourgeist, beating it if Sludge Bomb poisons it on the switch, where otherwise Gourgeist would be able to set up a Sub and outstall Tentacruel with Leech Seed + WoW if Tentacruel lacks Liquid Ooze, or just slowly KO it with just WoW as it hides behind a Substitute to protect from Scald (something it can't do against Sludge Bomb, which always breaks its Sub). Toxic Spikes are still useful for the teams that have the means to make proper use of them.

Tentacruel's newly acquired egg move combo of Rapid Spin + Haze is great and so Haze is the first option on the last slot. Haze prevents you from being set up bait against anything if you just stay in and spam it (think of SubDD Gyarados, DD Mega Charizard X, or Rest + Chesto Volcarona), makes Tentacruel a great check to both SmashPass and full Baton Pass teams, and allows Tentacruel to give the middle finger to SD + Protect and SubPass Blaziken. SD + Baton Pass Blaziken is completely neutered with Haze, as you can easily take one hit even at +2 and remove its boosts, whereas without Haze Blaziken could just Baton Pass +2 Atk and +1 Spe to a Pokemon that doesn't mind Scald and Sludge Bomb and sweep your team. As for SubPass Blaziken, you can at least remove the Speed Boost while Blaziken Baton Passes the Substitute to another Pokemon.

Protect is still very useful with Rain Dish on rain teams but Haze's utility is greater in general.

SubToxic is not worth it anymore as Tentacruel can't stall that well anymore with the nerf to Drizzle and the best spinblockers atm don't even care for Toxic (Aegislash and Trevenant).

I didn't put an ability because i think that all three are equally viable. Rain Dish is good on rain teams, Liquid Ooze is good on teams that struggle with Pokemon such as Leech Seed Trevenant and Leech Seed Gourgeist, and Clear Body is nice to avoid SpD drops from moves such as Shadow Ball from Gengar and helps if Sticky Web is up too.

Oh and Toxic could still be worth getting slashed after Toxic Spikes if rain teams end up being common. It also got a boost in 6th gen and always connects when used by Poison-types and also bypasses Substitute, meaning that SubDD Gyarados, SubSeed Trevenant, and Sub + Protect + Baton Pass Blaziken are not safe from it. However, the inability to stall until Toxic damage KOs the foe with Substitute under rain hurts its viability a lot and so i am not sure it deserves a slash. Definitely an AC mention for rain teams with Protect and maybe a slash on the third slot.

 

[ginganinja]

Slash Toxic in the Third slot, You might not be able to stall with Sub Toxic, but you can still be an annoyance with Toxic / Protect which still worked just fine last gen. Sure, you lack Rain Dish, but the combination is still good, and the third and final slash is a good place for it. You can even run Toxic + Haze to prevent something eating the poison damage and attempting to set up on you. Its an ok move, certainly not a bad move, got a few upgrades, and I would prefer that you slash it.

 

[nikovan]

Liquid Ooze forces out users of Leech Seed, and gives a nasty surprise to Drain Punch and Giga Drain users. Given that Tentacruel is mostly used as a defensive Poke and that there are not many moves out there that lower his defensive stats or special attack, Liquid Ooze could be actually very convenient. At the very least forces Ferrothorn out lest it wants to damage itself from its own Leech Seed.

Most Fairies are specially defensive, so Tentacruel really cannot deal too much damage to them without investment. Instead of running a poison move, Toxic Spikes or Toxic seem like a better option with Scald to burn steels.

Also, you forgot one of the most important niches Tenta has, and it is that as a grounded Poison type it absorbs Toxic Spikes in the event your spinner or defogger are out of the picture. If Tenta IS your spinner, you can at least guarantee that T Spikes are out even if your opponent switches a spin blocker in.

 

[Twilightfairy]

So Serebii isn't helping me How do you breed Rapid Spin into a tentacruel. Also How do you breed Mirror Coat into one?

Also side note. I know Cruel is typically a status/staller type of pokemon. I'm considering running a Bold nature with 252 Hp/252def. With Assult Vest.

Running either MirrorCoat OR Rapid spin (if i can get both well that's awesome)
Sludge Wave
Scald
Icebeam/dazzling gleam

I know I know not the greatest set in the world but hey it's something.

Side Side note. What is this move called Reflect Type?

 

[EdgeHead]

Breed rapid spin from a member of the Blastoise family to a member of the Kabutops family, then onto Tentacruel.

Corsola gives you Mirror Coat

Reflect Type lets you copy the opponents type

 

[Mkushrom]

Right now I'm testing:

Tentacruel@Black Sludge
Careful Nature
252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpDef
- Infestation
- Toxic
- Rapid Spin
- Protect

It's a great staller paired with Trevenant

 

[alexwolf]

<li>Rain Dish isn't available for it.</li>

That's not a con on itself, it's a con when comparing it to the PokeBank metagame, something you have no reason to do. Remove this line.

<li>Poor offensive presence leaves it as setup bait for sweepers, and the best it can do is hope for a Scald burn.</li>

I don't like the wording of this sentence. Tentacruel's STABs have 30% chance of inflicting status and achieve very good neutral coverage, meaning that most physical attackers can't reliably set up on Tentacruel, unless they have Sub. The Pokemon that like to set up on Tentacruel are mostly special attackers that are not hit super effectively by its moves and aren't walled by it, which is not such a large list actually. Not to mention Haze. Replace this sentence with a mention of its weakness to common attacking types, such as Ground and Electric.

<li>It loses to Aegislash except for a Scald burn, which is not very reliable.</li>

Very specific for overview, pointless, and not entirely correct statement. Remove.

You didn't mention the main reason to use Sludge Bomb, to 2HKO Azumarill and OHKO it after it has used Belly Drum. Make sure to describe the moves on the third and fourth slot by the order they are slashed (Sludge Bomb / Toxic Spikes / Toxic).

Remove any mention of Blaziken.

Remove the bit about Toxic hitting through Subs (i made a mistake) as it's not true and explain why one would want to use it.

Explain that Haze deals with Baton Pass teams too.

Add teammates and more checks and counters.

 

[scodic]

I've been using a tentacruel lately. For some checks an counters, I find the following oppose my Tentacruel quite well.
Wash Rotom: Immune to toxic spikes, has super effective stab against tentacruel, has enough bulk to be mostly unfazed by Tentacruel's attacks. Specs rotom's volt switch against a physically defensive/hp tentacruel should do 63.1 - 74.7%.

Dry Skin Toxicroak: Unaffacted by scald so there is no hope to burn it, barely affected by another stab like sludge bomb and immune to toxic and toxic spikes, a Tentacruel can do nothing but switch out, making it an appropriate counter.

 

[Colonel M]

This might be a minor thing to mention, but Scald + Hex should really fuck up Aegislash if you're deathly afraid of it as a spinblocker.

Also remove mention of Blaziken yadda yadda.

 

[Anartya]

I know that Tentacruel has a lot of issues with recovery even with Leftovers and needs a wish passer anyways to stay alive, but I typically find that I use Tentacruel to pivot special attacks more often than physical attacks especially Fire, Ice, Water, and Fairy Moves. Most physical pokemon that Tentacruel resists hits it quite hard to 3HKO Tentacruel with Resisted moves even without using any set up moves and Tentacruel can't do much in return. But Tentacruel absolutely needs defense investment to avoid 2HKOs from resisted moves. So I'm curious how this will work:

Tentacruel @ Assault Vest
Ability: Clear Body/Liquid Ooze
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe
Bold Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Sludge Bomb
- Knock Off

Including Rapid Spin, all of the moves have utility. 30% Burn, 30% Poison or guaranteed item loss from Knock off. Knock off might be weak, but it allows it to hit Spin-blockers and the utility of loosing an item is an extremely beneficial effect. Tentacruel should be used as a pivot, but I find that all of the investment required in defenses undermines it's great Special Defenses, so Assault Vest patches that up beautifully. And it would require at least 3~4 turns of Leftovers recovery to compensate for the reduced damage from Assault Vest and I'm doubtful that Tentacruel can survive that long if the opponent keeps pecking away at the leftovers set because of Tentacruel's lack of recovery moves. Here are some relevant calcs:

+2 252+ SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tentacruel: 76-91 (40.6 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 115-136 (61.4 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tentacruel: 66-80 (35.2 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 98-116 (52.4 - 62%) -- 96.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tentacruel: 43-52 (22.9 - 27.8%) -- 72.5% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 66-78 (35.2 - 41.7%) -- 75% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tentacruel: 64-75 (34.2 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 94-110 (50.2 - 58.8%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[silfan]

^ I've been using the same move set and similar spread on Tentacruel.
Wouldn't Liquid Ooze be a good alternative on Tentacruel though?
I find people like to switch Trevenant/Gourgeist into Tentacruel, and combination of Knock Off + Liquid Ooze of Leech Seed/Horn Leech really cripples those 2.

 

[Anartya]

^ I've been using the same move set and similar spread on Tentacruel.
Wouldn't Liquid Ooze be a good alternative on Tentacruel though?
I find people like to switch Trevenant/Gourgeist into Tentacruel, and combination of Knock Off + Liquid Ooze of Leech Seed/Horn Leech really cripples those 2.

Definitely! I think Clear Body is better if you have a hyper offense team, because it can remove sticky web without the speed loss. But if you have a Stall or Bulky offensive teams, I think Liquid Ooze is better, as those teams don't really care too much about sticky web. It really depends on what your team needs.