With Deoxys-E gone, what is the "new" Speed to hit?

Bourbon

Yeah, I dunno, I am confused now that Deoxys-E is gone. How fast should I make my Scarfers? How fast should I make my Agility users? Deoxys-E really raised the bar on Speed.

Firstly, I don't think Scarfgar needs to be Timid anymore, as Modest + Scarf still hits 478 speed, which is more than enough. With Gengar not being timid and scarfed, then other things can afford to lower their speed too.

Opinions? Comments? The new speed cap is probably 480, typically, with a few random pokemon like Modest scarfed Alakazam going higher than that.
 
Uhh, I personally would make my agility users 247 speed. Beats Jolly Tyranitar and those 245 pokemon before, and Jolly Scarfmence, ScarfCelebi, ScarfJirachi, Scarf-anything 100 boosting nature. I don't think we will see too many pokemon faster than that though (hopefully).
 
I'd aim probably just above base 100 neutrals, since scarf mence and scarf zapdos are getting some action, unless it's important to beat scarfgar
 
Well, until Skymin gets banned (and I'm thinking this is a when, not an if), there's that to contend with. Being a base 127 is a BITCH. It means he outspeeds +1 base 100's, no matter what. He's probably your agility benchmark, in addition to being your benchmark on what is good to scarf or not.
 
I dunno, I'd say > 448 just to get by scarfed neutral base 100's, but in regards to skymin, I just don't see competitive players using it all that much (if at all). So I'm pretty certain it will be OU since there is not really much notice of it anymore, and it is not nearly as versatile as Deoxys. I personally see it as an overhyped pokemon that was not what is originally appeared to be. (Rhyperior anyone?)
 
Olie said:
I dunno, I'd say > 448 just to get by scarfed neutral base 100's, but in regards to skymin, I just don't see competitive players using it all that much (if at all). So I'm pretty certain it will be OU since there is not really much notice of it anymore, and it is not nearly as versatile as Deoxys. I personally see it as an overhyped pokemon that was not what is originally appeared to be. (Rhyperior anyone?)
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Don't forget Deoxys-S was almost BL for a couple months too.
 
Olie said:
(Rhyperior anyone?)
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Rhyperior is making a come back if you ask me as he effectively stops 1/2 of a standard Zapdos' attacks (T-Bolt and Heat Wave) while still being an offensive threat (hurray for EdgeQuake stab and 140 base attack :3). Anyways, I always make my agility users speed just to be sure to outrun most threats..
 
Lol what? People (read, me) were running Timid Scarf Gengar LONG before Deoxys-S was made legal, even on the official server.

Deoxys-S leaving won't really change the speed benchmarks too drastically. Gengar will remain Timid + Scarfed because it always outspeeds 2 DD Gyarados (unless Jolly) and Jolly 1 DD Salamence and because it forces Kingdra to run a crap load of Speed evs.

Also, Skymin hits 529 with Modest Scarf, so to be honest, I'm making my Agility / Rock Polsih pokemon hit 265 speed minimum and I'm pumping as much Speed into my Choice Scarf Pokemon as I can.
 
On some +1/+2 pokemon (Kingdra) I do 234 for 350 and >460 to beat Gengar with one, everything with 2.
 
Gengar is still the highest benchmark, I would assume that people are going to be using Modest ScarfGar now that they don't have to cater to whatever set Deoxys wants to screw your team over with.

If for whatever reason you think Scarf Skymin is a threat, I would shoot for that number like Aldaron said, but as far as numbers that will actually come in handy are concerned, I would outspeed +1 jolly base 100s, assuming I could.

To be honest, speed benchmarks are on a case-by-case basis. Some pokemon NEED to outspeed certain things, others dont. Scarf Heatran needs to outspeed Skymin but Zapdos doesnt, etc.
 
gengar scarf sets will still remain timid, for one it needs it to remain fast after trick as scofield mentioned, and 2 it was timid before deo was released to outspeed certain threats, hell I even remember a timidscarf gar could outspeed a bulky gyara after 2 DDs
 
I think that if you are aiming to outrun Skymin, you might as well outspeed the base 130s. Other than that, I think outrunning neutral base 100s should do, mostly because of how popular DDMence is.
 
Scarf Areo is fun, faster than most DDMences after two DDs.

As far as speed tiers go. People are going to be interested in outrunning Skymin and the base 130s if they want to do it efficiently.

If you can hit 396 with a Scarf you're in good shape.
 
I stop giving Speed EVs past 417- just enough for + Speed Heatran. Other than that, I like 352. I know it's low for Scarf, but it outspeeds 95% of Pokes and lets me make better Mixed sets.
 
the only agility user i ever used was Dragonite, and i ran 244 speed to EQ Tyranitar before the Agility, and it also beats Scarf Heatran's max speed by ALOT after the agility

basically, it was my Skymin/Scizor/Heatran check, with Agility/EQ/Fire Punch/Ice Punch, with Life Orb of course
it didnt work too well because of SR/ 4x to ice, the 3rd one on my team lol

but anyways, yea i agree the benchmark is still timid ScarfGengar, which it should be if its running trick.
I dont think anyone runs ScarfAzelf unless its the Trick lead version
then after that comes ScarfDugtrio which basically serves one or two purposes, to smash Heatran and Infernape. Not too common

I dont think ScarfAlakazam is that common either because is either going to trick it off, but not too common because it doesnt lead often as it cant set up anything.

In terms of outspeeding certain threats, Gyarados with 2 DDs is the only thing I worry about because Salamence usually wont be pulling 2 DDs, and Agility users aren't really that powerful/uncounterable, so whatever speed Gyarados hits after 2 DDs is basically the highest. I think it hits around the same as Agility Dragonite, however i did not run max speed on Dragonite so it could be faster if it wanted to, then the only effective check is probably HP Electric Alakazam, which is ridiculous
 
Personally, since Platinum has been implemented, any time I run something which is worried about speed (i.e. scarf, salac, etc.), I make sure it outruns Timid Scarftran if possible, which guarantees that it also outspeeds non scarf skymin. Note that this is notably for medium speed pokes such as Gallade and P-Z.
 
I think that all these Trick users (especially Genger and Azelf) will keep the speed benchmark high. Although, mid-speed pokemon should aim just to outspeed those neutral base 100 pokemon with a +1 boost.
 
I dont think ScarfAlakazam is that common either because is either going to trick it off, but not too common because it doesnt lead often as it cant set up anything.
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next dual screen lead maybe? its the fastest dual screener next to deoxys, too bad it doesn't get SR.
 
I've been running Rotom-H with 352 speed, and usually my Agility users run 245 before the Agility just so I don't need to use the speed boost to outrun anything. Starting out an Agility sweeper with 198 speed is just too slow, same with 202, and other random "agility" numbers.
 
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