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Xerneas

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I'm running this set right now:

Xerneas @ White Herb
Modest Nature
Ability: Fairy Aura
152 HP/252 SpA/104 Spe
-Geomancy
-Moonblast
-Thunderbolt
-Psyshock

I'm considering going Mixed and dropping Psyshock for CC to fare better against Steel-types. But I don't believe that OHKOs the pink blobs which is annoying.
 
New World Order said:
I'm considering going Mixed and dropping Psyshock for CC to fare better against Steel-types. But I don't believe that OHKOs the pink blobs which is annoying.
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I caught a Rash (+sp attack / - spdef) Xerneas with 31 attack/31 sp attack/31 speed to do just this. Also I didn't feel like resetting for modest lol.
 
New World Order said:
I'm running this set right now:

Xerneas @ White Herb
Modest Nature
Ability: Fairy Aura
152 HP/252 SpA/104 Spe
-Geomancy
-Moonblast
-Thunderbolt
-Psyshock

I'm considering going Mixed and dropping Psyshock for CC to fare better against Steel-types. But I don't believe that OHKOs the pink blobs which is annoying.
Click to expand...

u got wrong item , it is not white herb , it's powerful herb~

and psyshock is really useless for vs chansey

chansey's physical side is good : 178*50*704 (+2 psyshock cant 2HKO it)

but +2 focus blast can 2HKO it! (but the pain is the accurate)

substitute is good opinion~
 
Theorymon said:
I think that Xerneas is certainly going to be a top tier threat, I think the reliance on Power Herb to sweep its going to be it's Achilles heel. Towards the end of gen 5, Roar started becoming rather popular among top players, and with Xerneas being around, I expect that trend to continue. So against stall teams, Xerneas might have less set up opportunities than you'd think! Also, depending on how much of a boost Assault Vest is, you may have some stuff like Metagross giving it problems. It's still going to be an EXTREMELY dangerous sweeper that will probably change Ubers team building, but currently, I don't expect it to be unstoppable either.
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Roar never became more popular; it's always been a reliable phasing move for a few Ubers Pokémon, no more, no less. I don't see how Roar became any more popular toward the latter part of Gen 5. In fact, I would actually argue that Roar lost popularity due to offensive's superiority in BW2 (moreso than BW1; stall was quite viable) in many regards. This faulty statement also makes your point of Xerneas being easily phazed quite the contrary. If you think about the common Roar users, Giratina-O, Kyogre, Groudon, and Dialga come to mind as the best users of said move. Other common phazers including Lugia, Ho-Oh, Skarmory, and co. are all OHKO'd by Xerneas at +2 after Stealth Rock. Due to the weather nerf, the two best spinners in the tier, Kabutops and Excadrill, suddenly lost a lot of viability which makes Ubers, a tier notorious for impossible spinning, even harder to spin in. Ho-Oh and Lugia are not going to be at 100% in any normal battle conditions to check Xerneas, and Skarmory most certainly isn't going to have its Sturdy intact to Whirlwind the fairy out. This applies to Forretress utilizing Gyro Ball as well. Donkey and I have experimented with stall, and needless to say, it is quite hard to make. Xerneas itself is quite a thorn in stall's side coupled with the other behemoths such at Specs Kyogre, so our best build had to condense our teamslots greatly through the use of Specially Defensive Aegislash as the spinblocker and Stealth Rock Gliscor among other Pokémon with relatively high opportunity costs which led the build much to be desired, even with the best of ideas coming together for the team. Metagross is a very unviable Pokémon; I do not see how you can argue it even has a niche in Ubers except being a specialized counter to Xerneas and an inferior check to Lati@s compared to other, better Pokémon. Scizor is interesting, but the lack of Roost and Toxic for Arceus-Ghost is a set off. In a Xerneas vs stall situation, if the stall team is lacking a healthy Specially Defensive Kyogre, Substitute + Geomancy Xerneas can set up a second Geomancy on Chansey with 101 HP Subs (it's only like 44 EV's in HP) and it's practically gg right there. Xerneas is quite the threat, and I do believe that some of your arguments are not quite valid in your post. I do agree with your on one thing, however, which is that Xerneas will indeed change teambuilding.
 
Just want to nitpick that Thunder and Tbolt both had a base power nerf (90 and 110 now) so that a healthy SpDef Ogre can tank a Thunder after SR. How realistic a situation that is though is another question. However, I'm not sure if Xerneas are even running Thunder seeing as the weather nerf makes at a lot less reliable than it used to be so Spdef Ogre may still be a solid check. (I know Thunder profits from his own rain but the electric coverage is also used for Ho-Oh)

That said, I haven't tried to build any stall yet as I'm still in BW2 mode so I can't offer any experiences to the contrary. I just calc'd that to see how dominant Kyogre may be in this new generation. (what with it providing less team support now)
 
So I did some damage calcs against the current Ubers metagame - here is a list of things that can survive an attack from a +2 Modest Xerneas with Moonblast/Focus Blast/Thunderbolt after Stealth Rock:

4/252 Chansey: 42.05 - 49.53% Focus Blast
252/252+ Jirachi: 51.73 - 60.89% Focus Blast
4/252 Blissey: 51.84 - 61.04% Focus Blast
248/0 Victini: 55.08 - 64.76% Thunderbolt
252/252+ Bronzong: 55.32 - 65.38% Focus Blast
252/252+ Kyogre: 61.53 - 72.45% Thunderbolt
252/200+ Arceus-Water: 64.41 - 76.12% Thunderbolt
0/0 Arceus-Fire: 64.82 - 76.37% Focus Blast
252/96+ Cresselia: 67.11 - 79.27% Moonblast
200/56+ Scizor: 72.5 - 85.49% Focus Blast
252/4 Bronzong: 75.14 - 88.46% Focus Blast

Out of these, Scizor, Bronzong, and Jirachi can hit it with a Steel move (not sure how much Jirachi's uninvested Iron head does), Kyogre and the Arceus Formes can phaze it out, and the rest can't really do much in return.
 
guys can we stop with the "help are these IVs / stats good" posts or something, the Simple Questions / Request thread in the WiFi forum or the Simple Question Simple Answers thread are best served to assist you, as this is primarily a discussion thread.

Carry on.
 
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Lol man, BS HP and Def were edited when I did this calc. Don't worry about the legitimacy of the calc.

(I just took Espeon because Xerneas isn't on the list ofc)
 
clare said:
So I did some damage calcs against the current Ubers metagame - here is a list of things that can survive an attack from a +2 Modest Xerneas with Moonblast/Focus Blast/Thunderbolt after Stealth Rock:

4/252 Chansey: 42.05 - 49.53% Focus Blast
252/252+ Jirachi: 51.73 - 60.89% Focus Blast
4/252 Blissey: 51.84 - 61.04% Focus Blast
248/0 Victini: 55.08 - 64.76% Thunderbolt
252/252+ Bronzong: 55.32 - 65.38% Focus Blast
252/252+ Kyogre: 61.53 - 72.45% Thunderbolt
252/200+ Arceus-Water: 64.41 - 76.12% Thunderbolt
0/0 Arceus-Fire: 64.82 - 76.37% Focus Blast
252/96+ Cresselia: 67.11 - 79.27% Moonblast
200/56+ Scizor: 72.5 - 85.49% Focus Blast
252/4 Bronzong: 75.14 - 88.46% Focus Blast

Out of these, Scizor, Bronzong, and Jirachi can hit it with a Steel move (not sure how much Jirachi's uninvested Iron head does), Kyogre and the Arceus Formes can phaze it out, and the rest can't really do much in return.
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I'm fairly sure a specially defensive Poison Arceus can survive any of the moves in the set you listed.
 
Annabeth said:
((((42) * 394 * 1,5 * 60 / 268) / 50) + 2) * 1,5 * 2 * (85 to 100) / 100 = 288,52 to 339,43 HP (73,41% to 86,37%)
=> If there is no mistake, no OHKO even with SR

And this is a selling point of 0HP/148def build against 148HP/0def !
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Xerneas' Defense with 148 EVs is 263 not 268.
According to Pokemon Showdown's damage calculator it actually has a chance to not survive if Stealth Rock is up:

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 148 Def (custom): 290-344 (73.79 - 87.53%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
 
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It's interesting how GF balanced the legendaries, as Yveltal looks (arguably) infinitely cooler while Xerneas crushes it in battle and Ubers in general.
So far, these are the possible checks to Xerneas (depending on moves):

Heatran
Aegislash
Ho-oh
Chansey
Clefable? (someone mentioned unaware clefable before)
Poison Arceus
MegaSaur
Scizor

Feel free to add more, but keep in mind many of these are not viable other than to check Xerneas.
I don't think I want to play Ubers this gen...
 
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Kayden said:
Xerneas' Defense with 148 EVs is 263 not 268.
According to Pokemon Showdown's damage calculator it actually has a chance to not survive if Stealth Rock is up:

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 148 Def (custom): 290-344 (75.71 - 89.81%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

16 HP / 160 Def seems to be the minimal amount of investment needed to survive with Stealth Rock up:

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 16 HP / 160 Def (custom): 288-338 (74.41 - 87.33%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 176 Def (custom): 284-336 (74.15 - 87.72%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
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I was wrong on def :
Def =((((31+(2*95)+(148/4))*100)/100)+5)*1=263

But you seems wrong on HP :
PV=((((31+(2*126)+(0/4)+100)*100)/100)+10)=393
And 87,5% of 393HP = 344HP
Which give you about 2% chance of OHKO on your first calculation.

PS : Outspeeding scarf Terrakion is enough, so needing 260 speed => 104 EV in speed => 152 EV in defense instead of 148, making the 2% chance a 0% chance.
So the best build seems to me : Modest with 152def/252spA/104spd
 
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You're correct, i used the wrong basestat for HP on the other calculations (121 instead of 126). I adjusted my previous post.
 
Annabeth said:
I was wrong on def :
Def =((((31+(2*95)+(148/4))*100)/100)+5)*1=263

But you seems wrong on HP :
PV=((((31+(2*126)+(0/4)+100)*100)/100)+10)=393
And 87,5% of 393HP = 344HP
Which give you about 2% chance of OHKO on your first calculation.

PS : Outspeeding scarf Terrakion is enough, so needing 260 speed => 104 EV in speed => 152 EV in defense instead of 148, making the 2% chance a 0% chance.
So the best build seems to me : Modest with 152def/252spA/104spd
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This leaves you sped out by 192 speed Excadrill in Sandstorm (which will go 252 anyway with the rise of Xerneas, but still).
 
Aurinko said:
This leaves you sped out by 192 speed Excadrill in Sandstorm (which will go 252 anyway with the rise of Xerneas, but still).
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Most Excadrill in ubers have already 252 speed Evs anyway... Plus weather being nefed... I think outspeeding scarf terrakion is the way to go.

Another question : Does leading Synchronize giving 50% chance of having same nature on wild Pokés still works in this gen ?
If this is the case, having a Modest Abra is mandatory when against Xerneas.
 
Annabeth said:
Most Excadrill in ubers have already 252 speed Evs anyway... Plus weather being nefed... I think outspeeding scarf terrakion is the way to go.

Another question : Does leading Synchronize giving 50% chance of having same nature on wild Pokés still works in this gen ?
If this is the case, having a Modest Abra is mandatory when against Xerneas.
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It still works in X & Y, i have been trying for a day now to get a 31/x/31/x/31/31 Modest Xerneas without luck. Anything less either makes you vulnerable to CB Scizor or forces you to move more EVs from Speed to Def which doesn't seem like a good compromise either.
 
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Kayden said:
It still works in X & Y, i have been trying for a day now to get a 31/x/31x/31/31 Modest Xerneas without luck. Anything less either makes you vulnerable to CB Scizor or forces you to move more EVs from Speed to Def which doesn't seem like a good compromise either.
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Ok great, so having a 31/x/31/31/31/31 seems 'possible' thanks to synchronize+*3 31IVs.
The chance is 5/18 (the chance of the three perfect IVs stat not including attack => (5/6)*(4/6)*(3/6)) * (1/961) = 5/17298 = 0,03%.
Possible, but that's really hard...
 
just had a thought, could xerneas not be swiftly dealt with by a STAB technician-boosted bullet punch from a scizor?

depending on how many turns it takes to kill xerneas, you could either run life orb, choice band or, if stealth rocks have been taken out of the picture, a focus sash to prevent the possibility of a ohko.

either that or baton pass him in with a boosted attack?
 
Moonbeam seems to be pretty much a staple on Xerneas, it's a pity it doesn't have many other specially offensive options. It gets megahorn and horn leech, but no physical fairy type STAB. A mixed Xerneas probably won't work since it'll have to give up Geomancy. Pity.
 
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